NEW X-MEN #139 REVIEW

[Anthony Zisa]

<a href="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/covers/newxmen139.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/covers/newxmen139t.jpg" align=left alt="New X-Men #139"></a>Reviewer: Anthony Zisa, aczisa@xfan.cjb.net
Story Title: Shattered
Quick Rating: Good

Jean prowls through Emma’s memory lane, and doesn’t like what she finds!

Written by: Grant Morrison
Pencilled by: Phil Jimenez
Inked by: Andy Lanning
Colored by: Dave McCaig
Lettered by: Chris Eliopoulos
Assistant Editor: Nova Ren Suma
Associate Editor: Mike Raicht
Editor: Mike Marts
Editor-in-Chief: Joe Quesada
President: Bill Jemas

Warning: Spoilers for “Shattered” will be discussed in detail in this review. If you are waiting for the trade and wish to remain unspoiled, read no further.

Grant Morrison loves Emma Frost. Anyone who has read Warren Ellis’ overview for Counter-X Generation X can see similarities between Morrison’s approach and Ellis’ idealized version of Emma Frost. Frost is the character who gets the best dialogue, with dozens of quote-worthy additions each month under Morrison’s pen. Frost’s interaction with literally any of the other characters usually remains a, if not the, high point of any New X-Men issue. For a character who became uninteresting for nearly an entire decade, defanged and charged with saccharine, Morrison (along with Ellis and Generation X scribe Brian Wood) has injected a new sense of purpose into the character.

“Shattered” deals with the ramifications of the Emma/Scott/Jean love triangle that has been building since the 2001 New X-Men annual. But, more importantly, it deals with a connected theme that only came into full focus last issue--Emma's self-doubt, and her newfound need to constantly and literally shut off her emotions. The story title refers less to the fascinating ending than the events of the story, as Jean literally shatters every last one of Emma’s psychic defenses. In this manner, the ending is appropriate, and flows naturally as an end result of Jean’s forced entry into Emma’s most guarded secrets.

“Shattered” provides an interesting contrast to most of Morrison’s previous work on the character. The Frost of “Shattered” is vulnerable and confused, a stark reversal from the confidant, caustic Emma of “E is for Extinction,” “Germ Free Generation,” and even “Riot at Xavier’s.” She is dealing with something she never intended, and which even her icy demeanor cannot handle--her unrequited love for Scott. The flashback to Hong Kong serves to bring definition to the entirety of Scott and Emma’s psychic affair. Emma, unable to seduce Scott in the direct manner, attempted to take advantage of his Apocalypse-induced confusion to find another entrance into his battered psyche.

Why did Emma fall in love with Scott? Morrison leaves that open to interpretation. In context of Emma’s life, as detailed by Morrison, it is fully feasible that her love stemmed and increased proportional to how much Scott rebuffed her advances. Emma loves a challenge, and breaking Scott away from Jean was going to be particularly difficult. As Logan says, Emma should have never attempted to come between the two, but she is a woman that has never been defeated in her endeavors. On the other hand, it is perfectly feasible that her love is genuine, in which case the difficulty would be all the more infuriating to her.

Of course, the other major player in “Shattered” cannot be ignored. Jean, fresh off a short sabbatical from the title, returns in horrifying force. The ease with which she penetrates Emma’s defenses, and the unrelenting nature of her assault, is a terrifying reminder of one of Morrison’s other long-running subplots, the return of the Phoenix. Though the precise nature of the Phoenix is as of yet undetermined, Jean’s casual use of its power in shredding her rival’s mind is a truly interesting evolution in the Phoenix subplot. The danger of Jean’s fury, a point Morrison has carefully built over the course of the Emma/Scott/Jean triangle, is fully exploited in “Shattered.” Jean’s position is one that elicits sympathy. Infidelity is a terrible thing, and one can never feel anything but horrible for someone who has been cheated on. Yet, the way Jean casually shatters all of Emma’s defenses and rips into her mind is wrong. The line dividing right and wrong was nicely blurred by Jean’s reaction, and it should be interesting to see where Morrison goes with it. Sure, what Emma did was wrong, but is tearing through her mind the correct response? Understandable in Jean’s fury, but with power such as Jean’s, is responsibility not most of what defines good and evil?

Morrison once again excels in the details, as well. His dialogue is top-notch, but the small character moments are what make his X-Men a good comic book, rather than a good X-Men book or a good superhero book. The reactions of Logan and Beast to Emma are telling. Both have a deeper connection to Jean than Emma, but they also go out of their way to be there for her in her time of need. Morrison understands that the X-Men are not just about teamwork, but also about family. A wacky, screwed up family, but a family nonetheless. Beast’s final sequence, in particular, while not essential to the plot, was a wonderful touch.

However, Morrison was readily assisted by new permanent penciller Phil Jimenez. Jimenez, who brought to life many of Morrison’s Invisibles script, shows what previous synergy can do for a creative team. Jimenez knows exactly what Morrison wants, and he makes sure Morrison has everything his story needs. His layouts are top notch, and Morrison, knowing Jimenez’s detailed style, plays to Jimenez’s strengths. No emotion or storytelling is loss with Frank Quitely’s departure--Jimenez is a worthy replacement for someone who, in less than a dozen issues, redefined the X-Men, and offered the quintessential X-Men art. Indeed, those details that Morrison and Quitely were so deft at adding remain under Morrison and Jimenez. One perfect example is Jimenez’s design of Emma’s room, complete with Warholesque self-portrait in the background. It does not add much to the story, or plot, but creates the perfect atmosphere. The book does not need it, but it would be less without it. It is this sort of synergy that the book was missing before Quitely’s return, and with artistic stability hopefully assured, the future of the book looks brighter than ever.

As an opening issue to a storyarc, “Shattered” is a less than stellar hook. But as a character study in itself, and perhaps as a farewell to a character, it hits all the right notes. With Jimenez apparently on board for the long-haul (save one Chris Bachalo fill-in on the horizon), Morrison Year Three and beyond looks to be a defining period for the X-Men.

ART:
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STORY:
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OVERALL:
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Order this issue online now from X-World Comics and save! (http://x-worldcomics.com/yourvirtualstore/shopdisplaycategories.asp?id=44&cat=NEW+X%2DMEN)

[spinarakboi]

How come this only got a good rating? I didn't seem like there was anything you thought was that bad.. I don't know just curious.

I personally liked this issue with a few minor cringes here and there. What Jean did was wrong... although some think it's justified because Emma did it... the old and over used saying "two wrongs don't make a right" comes to mind. But this kept me interested enough to pick up the next issue and the art certainly didn't hurt.

[Justclowes]

I thought this issue was a lot better than he riot at xaivers arc - Still wouldn't say its great & I'm not sure if i'm going to drop it yet as i've collected it for years & it's hard to say goodbye to a book that you grew up with even when you didn't like the direction a particular writer or artist was going. The one thing i liked about the issue was how Morrison wrote emma to be a complete bitch. The art to me is ok has a very realistic tone to it but i'm not sure if i overly like it. As much as i like Emma though i really hope she is dead as this would make the deaths of say Collosus & Psylocke seem pointless.

[thebigO]

i agree that brian wood and ellis saved the defanged emma frost from a justifiable banishment to limbo. and i love morrisons take and her and Jean. this issue was excellent. the only wrong thing about it was the art. all the woman looked a bit too much much like glen close for my liking!haha! seriously i thought the art let the issue down.

example- the scene where emma forces her mind back to her room with all those image bubbles. could have made a spectacluar image. instead it just looked like , (im finding it dificult to articulate this) well it just looked like a decription rather than a piece of art. does that make sense?

from what i read of the silent issue as well, i think the emma warhole painting would have been more a morrison idea than a jimenez.

i cant wait untill bachelo comes on board. i thought he was becoming the new regular artist? did't i read that on x-fan? well if not, i guess one is better than none.


and dont get too worked up ovewr the ending didn't emma get her own series which will be in the third tsunami wave?

O

[SQUIRREL-GIRL]

wow so emma frost was murdered? but how if shes getting her own title?

[ronaldmcdonald]

i just bought a copy and i liked it a lot.

is emma doing something with scott on page 2,
with his legs apart.....is it just my imagination or...
just my imagination.

can't wait for the next issue.

[ronaldmcdonald]

Originally posted by SQUIRREL-GIRL
wow so emma frost was murdered? but how if shes getting her own title?

It will be about her past.
But i'm hoping she's still alive.

[PsiWar]

good rating.

some people are hard to please i suppose. :)

i loved the story. a great look to the inner workings of an emma frost.

let's just hope she survived the disinfection.


jimenez is good. but there's something wrong when he does emma's hair. i dont like it.

and i miss van sciver's straight-haired jean.

[canucklehead]

The Emma Frost comic book will be about her past, but only for the first year, then it will be about the present, so she can't be dead. My favorite moment was when Wolverine went to Emma to comfort her, that was great !

[Airhead]

....must get issue......
....must get issue......
SPOILERS AHEAD!i wish emma doesn't die!
shes such a good charactor!
i hope we will see more of Dust!
:D

[Cyclops1989]

Well, I'm thinking that the "ongoing" series is going to be about her past but when it catches up with current continuity it's going to end (mostly because, well she's dead). It's probably just one of Marvel's ploys.

Unless of course I'm completely wrong, and in the next issue we find out that Emma went insane, broke dozens of diamonds that she had been conveniantly hiding under her bed, and ripped off her clothes in pure heated anger. Now she's walking around naked. That would interesting... no?

Great review Anthony, I always find your reviews to be insightful and intelligent. And, like usual, this is the case with your latest review.

I, personally, found the issue to be well done. I think the art was beautiful, and like Anthony said, it kept in tone with Quitely's departure. Morrison is constantly giving us a good story with charming dialogue, and I can't say I've ever been more pleased with the X-Men.

-Cyke89

[Kevin Sutton]

I agree totally with this review. I wouldn't call anything great or excellent unless it really made me stand up and cheer. (You have to maintain some upward mobility for ratings) I found Emma and Jean to be the center of this issue and most of what I saw fit with my expectations. (Though I was surprised by Emma's feelings for Scott) Emma's shell cast aside as was almost preordained after the last issue with her confrontation with the cuckoos, and Jean's fury which could also have been forseen. Emma faces the deaths of her students and her own shallowness. So Jean didn't throw Emma about the place --she almost engaged in some pretty brutal psi-torture anyway. As for PJ, I can't say that I found him as good as Quitely; he seems to have trouble portraying motion properly.

[anthomaniac1023]

I thought this issue was wonderful. It was nice to see the core cast and get a break from the students. Great Emma characterization, and I'm digging vindictive Phoenixy Jean.

[DiamondPaladinX]

Though I've only started recollecting the New X-Men very recently(course, I did collect X-Men Vol 2 for a while), I'm already surprised by the work of Morrison.

This issue was a well-done issue, namely in the field of characterization. It seems this triangle is somewhat entering the depth of personality of Emma, Jean, and even Scott. Emma was shown without any wall of diamond to hold her defenses, making her truly vulnerable, with great assitance from the new artist. She rode upon a train of bad memories and a shattered shield, confusing the Confuser. Yet, the event at the end of the issue should be interesting in the next issue.

Now with Jean, it appears obvious that the long-running plot of the return of Phoenix is becoming more apparent. The fact could be that it might not be reversible, such as is evolution. Perhaps her growth in powers are her secondary mutation. She has the powers of the Phoenix; so thus, she is becoming the Phoenix. She has the power of creation, so she will become creation. She has the power of destruction; and clearly, she will become destruction. Simply, she turning harshly into the gray field. No good in her, yet no evil in her. Beomcing just like the universe, the strong and the weak, the birth and the death. This should turn out quite intriguing, if my theory of Jean entering her secondary mutation is correct.

Overall, with top-notch dialouge, superb direction, structured art, and sub-predictions about the future paths of our faire X-heroes, this was a well put-togethered issue.

[Cobiatic]

Good review. One thing I was hoping you would touch on is some of the inconsistances of the issue.

Last issue, when Jean approached Emma and Cyke, they were in the gardens, though engaged in each others minds. Also, Dust was visibly in tow with Jean when she found them. This issue picks up with Emma and Cyke being in the same positions as last issue, yet when Jean kicks Scott out of the astral plane, he turns up inside the school, not where he had been, in the gardens. Also, Emma is suddenly in her room. (Though during this entire sequence, it is hard to distinguish whether they are in the astral plane or in reality)

Also, during the scene were Emma is shown all her kid's dead, Synch is colored Caucasian, when he is most certainly African American.

[Alex Guillen]

awsome review, Anthony. Morisson took us on a ride throught a mind with so much potential and it was awsome, emma's personality is often defined as just b*tchy but she has more layers unde her and Morisson brought out the bets in her. I hope she isn't dead and I want to see what scott thinks about Emma's feeling for him and where di he go off to? Nice touch about Scott stealing the motorcycle from Wolverine, a good reverse role from the X-men movie where Logan steals Cyke's bike.
Also great art By Jimenez, i hope he continues his great work on the book since I really enjoyed his run along Morisson in the Invisibles.

[Cobiatic]

One final thing. Since when was Emma part of the Frost family? According to Canon she was put into a mental institution when she was young and she was forced to use her powers to escape it. Also, as far as I know, she doesnt have a brother...nor was he the one to go insane. (Dispite my nitpicking, the frost sisters were depicted beautifully) And while we are on Emma's history, Emma got into the club through her connections with Harry Leland, not through dance auditions.

[Hellion]

The best part for me is when Jean forced Emma to see all the students that died under Emma's care. Emma's reaction made me love her more. I thought Jean was way out of line, she should have kicked Scott's ass! I also enjoyed the one panel where Scott was on the motorcycle. All in all I enjoyed this, and it has got me looking forward to Emma's new series.

[spinarakboi]

I still dont see how so many people can think she's dead. Her cold emotionless self was simply shattered and is no more. Well that's what I strongly believe untill proven otherwise. All it signified to me was that she left the mansion, not that she's dead... but I already said that I think... although I like someone's theory that Xorn healed her (emotionally) thus shattering her cold dimonds. Well it's impossible to know for sure so we'll just have to wait I suppose.

oh yeah and I agreed Jean had no right. Wasn't she kissing Logan? That is certainlly more real than psychic encounters if you ask me.... but because Logan turned her down it (even if she turned him down) that just makes me like Jean less.

[Anthony Zisa]

Originally posted by spinarakboi
How come this only got a good rating? I didn't seem like there was anything you thought was that bad.. I don't know just curious.

That's why I gave it a good rating. An issue really has to impress me to get higher than good.

Originally posted by Cobiatic
Good review. One thing I was hoping you would touch on is some of the inconsistances of the issue.

Last issue, when Jean approached Emma and Cyke, they were in the gardens, though engaged in each others minds. Also, Dust was visibly in tow with Jean when she found them. This issue picks up with Emma and Cyke being in the same positions as last issue, yet when Jean kicks Scott out of the astral plane, he turns up inside the school, not where he had been, in the gardens. Also, Emma is suddenly in her room. (Though during this entire sequence, it is hard to distinguish whether they are in the astral plane or in reality)

Also, during the scene were Emma is shown all her kid's dead, Synch is colored Caucasian, when he is most certainly African American.

I saw that, but I'm the sort of reader that doesn't nitpick. There was some very sloppy editing in this issue, but it didn't seriously detract from the overall book, at least for me. For example, the Synch thing was a minor quibble for me, since the intent of the splash wasn't to be continuity heavy, but to be moody and indicative of Emma's fears. However, I'll concede that the sudden change in location was jarring. I wanted to mention it, but it obviously slipped my mind.

However, after my last review, where I mentioned the sloppy continuity with the Cuckoos/Jean and Dust/Emma and Scott time frame leading up to the final page, someone emailed me and noted that Morrison has a habit of severely compressing time and screwing around with time frames to tell his story, so it's fully plausible that it wasn't a mistake, per se, and an indication of the breakneck pace with which Morrison tells his stories.

--acz

[Arachne]

Before everyone jumps on Scott, I got to say Jean isn't innocent either. While Scott thought about cheating on Jean, Jean has actually kissed Logan a few times. One can see how off balanced their relationship is when she was screaming about how Scott and Emma thought about cheating. Going back to the first few issues after the annual, Scott wouldn't let Jean read his mind to find out if he had cheated, so I loved how he screamed at her to read his mind, only to find out how he stayed true to her. I hope they make Jean feel like a a$$

[Cobiatic]

Yeah, I agree, I mean I enjoyed the story and the elements I brought up didn't 'ruin' the issue for me, I just found them to be outa place and what not.

Ala, I really liked Morrison's take on Emma's backhistory, but it would have been nice if pieces like her time in the psycheward had been used as well, because they could've/would've been useful to helping to establish why she is quasi-screwed up.

Glad to see it wasn't just me that picked up on these things.

[Chronotrigger]

Originally posted by Arachne
Before everyone jumps on Scott, I got to say Jean isn't innocent either. While Scott thought about cheating on Jean, Jean has actually kissed Logan a few times. One can see how off balanced their relationship is when she was screaming about how Scott and Emma thought about cheating. Going back to the first few issues after the annual, Scott wouldn't let Jean read his mind to find out if he had cheated, so I loved how he screamed at her to read his mind, only to find out how he stayed true to her. I hope they make Jean feel like a a$$


Some of you are failing to see that having an affair in the telepathic realm is a lot worse than in real life. Especially viewed from Jean's stand point who is a top notch telepath.
Fine, I agree that Jean shouldn't have kissed Wolverine. But since they were married he kissed her once, and the second time could be debatable. Nothing ever came of it.

Scott and Emma, however, have continuously shagged for a while now. And before you say that's not as bad, here me out. Everything that happens in the mind has a direct effect on the body. This could be seen in when Scott sky dives and asks Emma if it were real. He could feel the wind, the adrenaline, etc. or when Phoenix was attacked by the Neo. All the punches that she took on the astral plane made her bleed in the real world where Cable was able to physically see all the effects.
So when Scott and Emma had sex in their minds, its not much different from teh real thing. It could be worse because Scott didn't just give in to his "manly needs" or "lust"...his mind was into it to. Its a betrayal on many levels.
I'm glad Jean showed Emma that she doesn't screw with people and get away with it.

[Judius]

One thing that bugged me about this issue was...when did they get inside the mansion?! At the conclusion of last issue Scott and Emma were outside standing in the hedges and they psychically went into a "bedroom". Jean then went to those hedges and entered the "psychic bedroom". At the beginning of this issue Jean throws Scott out of the bedroom and it turns out to be a real bedroom since Scott is now standing in the hall where he confronts the cookoos, Xavier and Xorn. Something I'm missing? Did Jean somehow teleport them all inside or is this a big boo-boo by the creative team?:?

[spinarakboi]

Well I completely disagree, I think it's much worse to do it person but we'll leave it at that... besides even if they were doing it in person it gives Jean no right (in my opinion) to do what she did.. the only flip side to that is it probably helped Emma.

[Anthony Cordova]

Originally posted by Anthony Zisa


Warning: Spoilers for “Shattered” will be discussed in detail in this review. If you are waiting for the trade and wish to remain unspoiled, read no further.

Grant Morrison loves Emma Frost. Anyone who has read Warren Ellis’ overview for Counter-X Generation X can see similarities between Morrison’s approach and Ellis’ idealized version of Emma Frost. Frost is the character who gets the best dialogue, with dozens of quote-worthy additions each month under Morrison’s pen. Frost’s interaction with literally any of the other characters usually remains a, if not the, high point of any New X-Men issue. For a character who became uninteresting for nearly an entire decade, defanged and charged with saccharine, Morrison (along with Ellis and Generation X scribe Brian Wood) has injected a new sense of purpose into the character.

They didn't change anything about Emma at all, actually. While I admit to enjoying NXM primarily becauase I find Emma interesting, she was essentially the same character in Gen-X. Or am I the only one who remembers her forcefully kidnapping her own students by using her formidable psionic abilties on them and her co-headmaster? Or how about the time Sean was having nightmares so loud that he dragged Emma into them, and she basically told him to get over himself? Or when Emma beat the living snot out of that ridiculous space clown with the dwarves? The only thing that Grant may be credited with doing is making Emma a homewrecking diamond, and given her past in the Hellfire Club I doubt that she didn't wreck at least one home before.


“Shattered” deals with the ramifications of the Emma/Scott/Jean love triangle that has been building since the 2001 New X-Men annual. But, more importantly, it deals with a connected theme that only came into full focus last issue--Emma's self-doubt, and her newfound need to constantly and literally shut off her emotions. The story title refers less to the fascinating ending than the events of the story, as Jean literally shatters every last one of Emma’s psychic defenses. In this manner, the ending is appropriate, and flows naturally as an end result of Jean’s forced entry into Emma’s most guarded secrets.

I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking that Morrison is building his own X-universe, which has its own rules that don't apply to the other X-books (ie, dead means dead policy). So, its seems extremely BIZARRE to me that he is going against the rules of his own universe - HE established Emma's immunity to psychic attacks in diamond form, and completely disregards that entirely by having Jean break through her psychic defenses. Emma wasn't using her psychic defenses - she was in her diamond form, where she can't use and is immune to telepathy.


Of course, the other major player in “Shattered” cannot be ignored. Jean, fresh off a short sabbatical from the title, returns in horrifying force. The ease with which she penetrates Emma’s defenses, and the unrelenting nature of her assault, is a terrifying reminder of one of Morrison’s other long-running subplots, the return of the Phoenix. Though the precise nature of the Phoenix is as of yet undetermined, Jean’s casual use of its power in shredding her rival’s mind is a truly interesting evolution in the Phoenix subplot. The danger of Jean’s fury, a point Morrison has carefully built over the course of the Emma/Scott/Jean triangle, is fully exploited in “Shattered.” Jean’s position is one that elicits sympathy. Infidelity is a terrible thing, and one can never feel anything but horrible for someone who has been cheated on. Yet, the way Jean casually shatters all of Emma’s defenses and rips into her mind is wrong. The line dividing right and wrong was nicely blurred by Jean’s reaction, and it should be interesting to see where Morrison goes with it. Sure, what Emma did was wrong, but is tearing through her mind the correct response?

Technically, what Emma did wasn't wrong - all she did was go into Scott's mind and shared a fantasy with him. To me, it was no more than two people knowing that they are physically attracted to each other, and not acting on it. I guess its a subjective thing - how you feel about the situation is based on what you consider cheating to be. But even if you feel Emma and Scott were wrong, why was it that Jean was only picking on Emma? She immediately threw Scott out of the situation, and for what? Out of all the NXM cast, Emma is the only one who has done anything to help Scott through his internal dilemna - which isn't to say what she did was necessarily the "right" thing to do, but it was more than Jean did. I developed a strong dislike for Jean this issue, most importantly because of the fact that she was pissed off because "they were thinking about it!"

Morrison once again excels in the details, as well. His dialogue is top-notch, but the small character moments are what make his X-Men a good comic book, rather than a good X-Men book or a good superhero book. The reactions of Logan and Beast to Emma are telling. Both have a deeper connection to Jean than Emma, but they also go out of their way to be there for her in her time of need.

Finally. I think the only thing that has interested me in Morrison's run was how vastly different it was in tone than most other books, X or otherwise. His characters rarely even spoke to each other - rather, they spoke at each other, with each person seemingly going around making general comments. This has changed in recent months, since the beginning of the Riot arc, and I have to say Morrison is just as good at characterization as he is with "Ideaspace". Lol, that was a great column ...

Morrison understands that the X-Men are not just about teamwork, but also about family. A wacky, screwed up family, but a family nonetheless. Beast’s final sequence, in particular, while not essential to the plot, was a wonderful touch.

Family? I'm not getting a sense of family from ANY of them - to me, they just seem like close friends with the same job who happen to live in the same house. I don't know, maybe I'm jaded on this because of various reasons - I'm going to read Morrison's entire run again over the weekend and see what I think of it now.


As an opening issue to a storyarc, “Shattered” is a less than stellar hook. But as a character study in itself, and perhaps as a farewell to a character, it hits all the right notes. With Jimenez apparently on board for the long-haul (save one Chris Bachalo fill-in on the horizon), Morrison Year Three and beyond looks to be a defining period for the X-Men.

Funny you should mention this - I completely forget this was the first issue of "Murder at the Mansion". Oh, don't forget the Silvestry fill-in, which I am eagerly anticipating.

[Anthony Cordova]

Originally posted by Chronotrigger



Some of you are failing to see that having an affair in the telepathic realm is a lot worse than in real life. Especially viewed from Jean's stand point who is a top notch telepath.
Fine, I agree that Jean shouldn't have kissed Wolverine. But since they were married he kissed her once, and the second time could be debatable. Nothing ever came of it.

Scott and Emma, however, have continuously shagged for a while now. And before you say that's not as bad, here me out. Everything that happens in the mind has a direct effect on the body. This could be seen in when Scott sky dives and asks Emma if it were real. He could feel the wind, the adrenaline, etc. or when Phoenix was attacked by the Neo. All the punches that she took on the astral plane made her bleed in the real world where Cable was able to physically see all the effects.
So when Scott and Emma had sex in their minds, its not much different from teh real thing. It could be worse because Scott didn't just give in to his &quot;manly needs&quot; or &quot;lust&quot;...his mind was into it to. Its a betrayal on many levels.
I'm glad Jean showed Emma that she doesn't screw with people and get away with it.


Well, at least Emma was trying to help Scott, which is more than his WIFE did. Also, Jean is being hypocritcal by virtue of the fact that she kisses Wolverine whenever the fancy strikes her - I defer your attention to both New X-Men 117 and Uncanny X-Men 394. Thats not even mentioning her attraction to Fantomex, which is bizarre to say the least. Basically, what I'm saying is that why does Jean feel victimized when its really Scott and Logan who should be the ones getting pissed off?

[Judius]

Well you can't really blame Jean too much, she just knows the kind of person he is, Scott has a history of cheating on his wife when she's not around. In fact thats how he got back with Jean in the first place.

[Anthony Cordova]

Originally posted by Judius
Speaking as a regular guy and nothing to do with the characters in the comics I know that if I found my wife with another guy (or even if telepaths were real and it was just a phychic affair) I would still be ticked off and that guy would be getting his @$$ kicked. And if I had had the power of the phoenix then I would also have murdered the guy and fried him off the face of Earth. Plain and simple. After all, I have the power of a god and some loser just pi$$ed on my marriage, who's gonna tell me what I can and can't do to him?

Well, obvious analogies to godlike power aside, what gives you the right to kick anyone's ass based on something that involved two people? Why is everyone forgetting that Scott was involved in this, too? Its all about Jean and Emma, how Jean is right or how Emma is wrong, but where does Scott get dealt with? What do you do to your spouse when you find out they've been screwing the milk-person (old school AND politically correct - GO ME!)

I mean, good lord , how BLIND is Jean that she doesn't realize that Scott is "cheating" on her for a reason? Given the fact that she's such a powerful telepathy, she should have a great deal of insight into what makes people tick. Not only does she not understand Scott needs help in getting over his posession by Apocalypse, she also fails to address the fact that this is the reason why he's cheating on her. She pissed me off alot this issue - which is more than she's done for me emotionally in months, so I guess its a good thing after all.

[Anthony Cordova]

Originally posted by Judius
Well you can't really blame Jean too much, she just knows the kind of person he is, Scott has a history of cheating on his wife when she's not around. In fact thats how he got back with Jean in the first place.

First of all, if Jean "knows the kind of person he is" (ie, the kind who cheats on his wife) why is she with him in the first place? Secondly, Maddie left Scott, not vice versa. And thirdly, Jean has a history of cheating on her husband as well, so that argument falls into pieces.

[omegastorm]

Originally posted by thebigO
i agree that brian wood and ellis saved the defanged emma frost from a justifiable banishment to limbo. and i love morrisons take and her and Jean. this issue was excellent. the only wrong thing about it was the art. all the woman looked a bit too much much like glen close for my liking!haha! seriously i thought the art let the issue down.

example- the scene where emma forces her mind back to her room with all those image bubbles. could have made a spectacluar image. instead it just looked like , (im finding it dificult to articulate this) well it just looked like a decription rather than a piece of art. does that make sense?

from what i read of the silent issue as well, i think the emma warhole painting would have been more a morrison idea than a jimenez.

i cant wait untill bachelo comes on board. i thought he was becoming the new regular artist? did't i read that on x-fan? well if not, i guess one is better than none.


and dont get too worked up ovewr the ending didn't emma get her own series which will be in the third tsunami wave?

O

People are gonna get us so confused especially the way you sign your posts.

o

[Judius]

Originally posted by Dragonspawn01


First of all, if Jean &quot;knows the kind of person he is&quot; (ie, the kind who cheats on his wife) why is she with him in the first place?

She's an idiot.


Secondly, Maddie left Scott, not vice versa.

She didn't leave him she was running for her life, the Mauraders were hunting her down. Scott didn't know this nor did he know that "she left him". He couldn't get find her and turned to Jean instead. Maddie was his wife, there's no time period saying if either spouse is not around you get to play with someone else. You're married till death do you part or till you both decide its over. You dont move on cause you cant find the other and say, "oh well".

And thirdly, Jean has a history of cheating on her husband as well, so that argument falls into pieces.

See my first answer, she aint innocent, she's a flaming idiot, literally.

[lightwards]

Originally posted by Chronotrigger

Some of you are failing to see that having an affair in the telepathic realm is a lot worse than in real life. Especially viewed from Jean's stand point who is a top notch telepath.

I agree totally. I think the utter intimacy of Emma and Scott sharing minds would be much more hurtful to Jean than their having a merely physical affair. Emma is doubly trespassing.


Originally posted by Judius

One thing that bugged me about this issue was...when did they get inside the mansion?! At the conclusion of last issue Scott and Emma were outside standing in the hedges and they psychically went into a &quot;bedroom&quot;. Jean then went to those hedges and entered the &quot;psychic bedroom&quot;. At the beginning of this issue Jean throws Scott out of the bedroom and it turns out to be a real bedroom since Scott is now standing in the hall where he confronts the cookoos, Xavier and Xorn. Something I'm missing? Did Jean somehow teleport them all inside or is this a big boo-boo by the creative team?:?

We've seen examples of Emma and Scott communing mentally while they go about routine tasks in daily life. Scott was skydiving with Emma while still flying the X-Jet and carrying on a conversation with Wolverine. Obviously movement is still possible. I'd guess that both Emma and Scott's bodies headed for their rooms as a reflexive protective movement without much direction from their conscious minds, much in the same way that I can walk 30 blocks in New York, day-dreaming the whole way and with no conscious memory of the trip, yet I manage not to get hit by a car or take the wrong turn. If this is the correct explanation, I do feel that Morrison could have done a better job of setting that up. This issue felt very choppy to me, and while I enjoyed it, I had to read it three times to convince myself my issue wasn't missing a page during Jean's travel's through Emma's past.



I also think that Jean should be given some slack here. While I think she was inappropriate, she could have done much worse, and she must be on the edge of loosing control. It's been a tough several weeks, with Cassandra Nova almost killing Professor X, the U-Men attacking the school with only Jean to defend it, her near-death at the hands of the micro-Sentinels, the student riot, the deaths of Sophie and Quentin, Professor X's resignation as headmaster (leaving Jean as the obvious candidate for his replacement), and last but certainly not least, her having to come to terms with the ever growing force that lives inside her. It can't be easy being the Nest of the Phoenix. I like to think that she would have been there for Scott, but between her own problems and duties and his withdrawal from her, she hasn't had much opportunity.

[Anthony Cordova]

Originally posted by lightwards


I agree totally. I think the utter intimacy of Emma and Scott sharing minds would be much more hurtful to Jean than their having a merely physical affair. Emma is doubly trespassing.

And here is where great discussion comes in - differing opinions. For me, its difficult to really GRASP the intimacy of sharing minds, because I've never had the pleasure. I sypmathisize more with Emma and Scott than Jean here, because her anger is unfounded to me - it essentially boils to her being angry at a fantasy, which is completely ridiculous.


I also think that Jean should be given some slack here. While I think she was inappropriate, she could have done much worse, and she must be on the edge of loosing control. It's been a tough several weeks, with Cassandra Nova almost killing Professor X, the U-Men attacking the school with only Jean to defend it, her near-death at the hands of the micro-Sentinels, the student riot, the deaths of Sophie and Quentin, Professor X's resignation as headmaster (leaving Jean as the obvious candidate for his replacement), and last but certainly not least, her having to come to terms with the ever growing force that lives inside her. It can't be easy being the Nest of the Phoenix. I like to think that she would have been there for Scott, but between her own problems and duties and his withdrawal from her, she hasn't had much opportunity.

Well, sure, alots happened - but Jean isn't the only one affected by those events. They've been just as tough on Scott and Emma, and besides - Jean took the oppurtunity to smooch with Logan, so I'm sure she could've found five minutes to talk to her husband. Rather than, you know, running around the globe making the googly face at an unknown, masked man.

[lightwards]

Originally posted by Dragonspawn01
Well, sure, alots happened - but Jean isn't the only one affected by those events. They've been just as tough on Scott and Emma, and besides - Jean took the oppurtunity to smooch with Logan, so I'm sure she could've found five minutes to talk to her husband. Rather than, you know, running around the globe making the googly face at an unknown, masked man.

Yes, things have been tough for everyone, but Jean has been the one bearing the burden of running the school and saving Professor X. Neither Scott nor Emma have to deal with the Phoenix. And while Jean may have been attracted to Fantomex, she didn't do anything about it. A regular person would never have known. Jean may be married, but she isn't dead. It's inevitable that she will meet many men that she'll be attracted to during her life. It's what she does about it that will be the telling point.

That said, she definitely needs to take some time to sit and talk with Scott. They both need to admit that their marriage is failing and do something about it other than make passes at Logan or psi-shag Emma.

But who knows? Maybe Morrison will round off his Phoenix story arc by killing off Jean for good this time. Issue #154, say?

[Chronotrigger]

How could her anger be unfounded? Seeing all that trust you put in your husband by not reading his mind shattered with a fellow co-worker is big reason for anger. Jean actually took it pretty easy on Emma. In real life, with no powers, Emma could have been dead right then there by a knife, a bullet, etc. So given all that she could have done to Emma, Jean went quite easy with all she did. If you can't grasp the intimacy, that's understandable, but can you grasp that the psychic sex is just as tangible as real sex? Something logan and Jean have never done?

Jean's tried to talk to Scott on several occasions. Once after the initial Cassandra nova attack when she is in a hospital bed, the other when they were taking care of Beast. Both times Scott gave her cold answers, or worked his way around the question. Jean is a grown up woman. She tried. Are you expecting her to baby sit Scott Summers 24/7 and hold his hand? I surely hope not because she has better things to do like actually moving mutants place up in the world.

[Arachne]

Originally posted by Judius
Well you can't really blame Jean too much, she just knows the kind of person he is, Scott has a history of cheating on his wife when she's not around. In fact thats how he got back with Jean in the first place.


Yes Scott left Maddie for Jean- but this is also the Jean that will make out with Logan anytime she gets an itch too- I can think of at least three times. Jean's getting what she deserves.

[Chronotrigger]

Originally posted by Arachne



Yes Scott left Maddie for Jean- but this is also the Jean that will make out with Logan anytime she gets an itch too- I can think of at least three times. Jean's getting what she deserves.

Jean/Wolverine kissed have only appeared twice since their marriage. The first time he kissed her. the second time its debatable who kissed who, but it never went farther. Both times can be blamed on Scott's cold treatment of her. She didn't feel comfort, the love she wanted from and is supposed to get from him. It was Scott who pushed her away first. I'm not saying its right, but its a hell of a lot better than what Cyclops has done.
So where's this third phantom kiss?

[Airhead]

....wait....
...the murder occurs in #140 i though Grant said?!
(or they could just find the body!)

[W. Molstad]

Hey, anything could happen here - maybe the Jean/Scott/Emma.../Logan thing could really be a distraction to another murder that takes place.
Any one of the X-Men could die, but I doubt that it would be Wolverine, Xorn, or Jean - as the Phoenix thing hasn't developed.
Xavier? Beast? Emma? Cyclops once Jean finds out? We don't know.
Which one would the editor let Grant kill?
:? :eek: :O

[Codym]

I thought Jean went a little over the top in this issue, but Emma got what she deserved. Trying to ruin a marrage for the fun of it does not warrant any sympathy, in my books, and in a world of telepaths, pyschic sex is just as bad as actual, if not worse. Scott, however, got off too lightly.

As for the whole "Jean is just as bad..." thats just plain idiotic. Wolverine has kissed on a few occassions in their thirty year relationship, but never have they just jumped into the sack together (and never has it been "whenever she feels like it".) To say that being kissed by someone you have had a long, deep and emotional relationship for many years is the same as having an affair (psychic or otherwise) with someone who has only recently invaded your life is rediculious. Logan earned his kiss, and went no further. Emma was just looking for trouble.

[maggottman]

The only thing that really bugged me about this issue was Xavier. Maybe it was just the fact that he was back in the old suit and tie, but something seemed off. I felt he should have been more sympathetic to Jean; he understands the intimacy of telepathy, that thoughts can be real, and all that. Instead, the only reaction he has is to blame her anger on jet lag and tell her to calm down- not so much because he cares about her, but to keep that pesky Phoenix in check.

As for the debate whether Jean is justified or not in her actions, my take was that Scott felt they were just meaningless thoughts, but Emma knew exactly how Jean would feel about it-- and probably feels the same way. That sort of makes the situation more tragic. To Emma, the telepathic trysts were part of what made her fall in love with Scott, whereas to Scott, they're just 'harmless thoughts.'

End rant.

[Zachary J. Morrison]

Good review, Anthony. This issue was good, but somehow I didn't like how Scott looked. He looked a bit skinny when he was shirtless while with Emma, but I also didn't like the look Emma had when she had her back towards Jean. That look kinda scared. I'm sure Emma is alive, but it would be a good murder mystery. Can't wait to see what happens in ish #140 whenever it comes out.

[iceman06]

Originally posted by Judius
Well you can't really blame Jean too much, she just knows the kind of person he is, Scott has a history of cheating on his wife when she's not around. In fact thats how he got back with Jean in the first place.

Scott has a history of cheating on his wife? Did you read those issues of X-FACTOR? Either you got some inaccurate second hand information or someone's been lying to you. Yes, Scott left Maddie in X-FACTOR #1 when he found out Jean was alive, but he kept his distance, and to my knowledge, he never made a move on Jean. In X-FACTOR #15, he'd identified Maddie's corpse making him a widower in his mind. They found out she had been alive and had died again in X-FACTOR #27. I don't think they knew she was still alive until X-FACTOR #37, and she died again in X-FACTOR #38 when Jean acquired Maddie's memories. I even think it was a little while after that before Scott and Jean actually got back together. There wasn't a moment where Scott tried anything with Jean or anyone else while he knew his wife was alive. He never cheated on her.

[tonio]

i think morrison*or morris* can't remeber....is wayy cooky... in issue 119 it was defined that emma was vulnerable to psychic attacks(ie the u-men/marhta attack) but later he makes it seem as if she's immune to psychic attacks in diamond from(IE: when the shiar attack and jena ells for emma to shutdown all telepathy and go into diamond mode, 126 cassandra makes a comment to emma that her brain is wierd when she's in diamon form....all shiny and prism like *how can a psychic being not read sumbodies mind* and then now in 139 emma shifts to diamond to excape jeans mind. This either means that jean was using her telepathy and emmas * beacause all the psychic stuff was goin on in jeans mind...rmeeber she said that she had fused emma's memories with hers....that's why emma coudln't stop it* or it means that emma is now immune to psychic stuff when diamond.

aside from that i loved this issue.....i loved phils work to...the picture of emma cryin to wolvy talkin about jean being both jury and judge....great emotion. When does part two come out

[Chronotrigger]

Originally posted by tonio
i think morrison*or morris* can't remeber....is wayy cooky... in issue 119 it was defined that emma was vulnerable to psychic attacks(ie the u-men/marhta attack) but later he makes it seem as if she's immune to psychic attacks in diamond from(IE: when the shiar attack and jena ells for emma to shutdown all telepathy and go into diamond mode, 126 cassandra makes a comment to emma that her brain is wierd when she's in diamon form....all shiny and prism like *how can a psychic being not read sumbodies mind* and then now in 139 emma shifts to diamond to excape jeans mind. This either means that jean was using her telepathy and emmas * beacause all the psychic stuff was goin on in jeans mind...rmeeber she said that she had fused emma's memories with hers....that's why emma coudln't stop it* or it means that emma is now immune to psychic stuff when diamond.

aside from that i loved this issue.....i loved phils work to...the picture of emma cryin to wolvy talkin about jean being both jury and judge....great emotion. When does part two come out

Emma looses her telepathy and is vulnerable to telepathy in diamond form. Always has been like that, never changed. In 123 when Jean told her to switch into diamond form, it was because the scan that Shiar used caused telepaths like Jean to loose their balance when they detected it with their powers. Emma began to feel it until Jean had to tell her to change into diamond form so that she wouldn't sense the scan.

[maggottman]

Just occured to me: on the subject of Cyclops falling for telepaths, I seem to remember some storyline, way back in the early issues of X-Men (2nd series), where he fell for Psylocke. Or didn't fall for Psylocke. Or it wasn't Psylocke, but a skrull. Or something. If any of the longer readers could fill in the giant gap here, it would make some interesting fodder for supposed infidelity in Cyclops' past.

[Chronotrigger]

Originally posted by maggottman
Just occured to me: on the subject of Cyclops falling for telepaths, I seem to remember some storyline, way back in the early issues of X-Men (2nd series), where he fell for Psylocke. Or didn't fall for Psylocke. Or it wasn't Psylocke, but a skrull. Or something. If any of the longer readers could fill in the giant gap here, it would make some interesting fodder for supposed infidelity in Cyclops' past.

At the time him and Psylocke had a lot of moments. There was even a scene where she walked out of the shower and he was in his underwear. Both gave each other a smile.
However, it turned out later that Cyclops was being telepathically manipulated by Betsy. Kind of a cop out.

[Merlin]

What a great issue
the art was superb

when i heard that there was going to be an Emma Jean psycic cat fight I was so excited and was thinking I'd love to see Emma get some good shots at Jean but then I thought that would be impossible Jean has the Pheonix force so it should be jsut Jean knocking Emma for a loop
and sure enough that is what happened emma's ass was kicked (and this time not be Scott)

The ending was great b/c morrison managed to keep a secret of who was going to bite the dust.

Great review Athony, who managed to put in words what i though of Grant and Phil working together.

[ReaperFett]

Im sure some people are saying murder is just in certain cases :)

[TekkamanSol]

Cyclops is the true ladies man, je acts all good and what not but he's definitely a pimp when it all boils down, first it was Jean, then Maddie, then Jean came back he dropped Maddie for Jean and the whole short thing with Betsy and now Emma. And sorry I don't buy that whole mental manipulation crap, he was trained by Xaiver to resist that sort of thing. But hey who can blame the ladies for going for a 6 foot red head who always wears shades ;)

[Chronotrigger]

Originally posted by TekkamanSol
Cyclops is the true ladies man, je acts all good and what not but he's definitely a pimp when it all boils down, first it was Jean, then Maddie, then Jean came back he dropped Maddie for Jean and the whole short thing with Betsy and now Emma. And sorry I don't buy that whole mental manipulation crap, he was trained by Xaiver to resist that sort of thing. But hey who can blame the ladies for going for a 6 foot red head who always wears shades ;)

lol. when you say 6 foot red head do you mean Cyclops? :D
he has brown hair.

[spinarakboi]

Yeah that's another point as to why Jean was in the wrong. What was Emma doing. sharing psychic moments with Scott.... well that obviously wasn't being done without his knowlege.... I don't see how she could blame Emma for cheating when she certainly isn't dating Emma... all the blame as far as the cheating in my opinion really falls on Scott, he's the one she need to teach a lesson to. Emma was just in love.

Either way it's an interesting debate and New X-Men seems better than when I dropped it back... sometime during Jean making people poop their pants and all the X-Corp characters completely out of character.

Jean seems way to poweful though. I know this is something that will probably be delt with fairly soon, but right now.. she's just no fun.

[Chronotrigger]

Originally posted by spinarakboi
Yeah that's another point as to why Jean was in the wrong. What was Emma doing. sharing psychic moments with Scott.... well that obviously wasn't being done without his knowlege.... I don't see how she could blame Emma for cheating when she certainly isn't dating Emma... all the blame as far as the cheating in my opinion really falls on Scott, he's the one she need to teach a lesson to. Emma was just in love.

Either way it's an interesting debate and New X-Men seems better than when I dropped it back... sometime during Jean making people poop their pants and all the X-Corp characters completely out of character.

Jean seems way to poweful though. I know this is something that will probably be delt with fairly soon, but right now.. she's just no fun.

What was Emma doing? A lot more than she should have to their marriage and for all the wrong reasons. A post from another board:
Emma was sure coercing him. Maybe it started out with Scott asking for help, but she quickly took advantage of Scott's mental state concerning the marriage and Jean to her advanatge.

False assupmtion:
Emma was trying to help the marriage

Evidence:
She claims to be some sort of sex therapist but how many sex therapists actually have sex with their patients? She's clearly in it for herself because she supposedly loves Scott. But that doesn't excuse her behavior.
"I'm so glad you're here. I just want to get away from all this crushing misery and have some fun."
"Bereavement always fills me with unforgivable lust darling."

Its she herself that she's trying to help. Not Scott, Not Jean. Just because she can't deal with her own problems doesn't give her the right to psi shag anyone, much less Scott who she knows is a married man. There are ways to deal with her pain, and the way she sought to deal with it is wrong and unethical. If was a therapist like she claims to be, why doesn't she go see one herself for all her troubles?

False assumption:
Emma is not manipulating or coercing the affair.

Evidence: This is so not true. She may not be outright forcing Scott, but given his confused state, it doesn't take much to persuade him. As shown in the scene in Hong Kong:

Emma: "Why can;t you just give up your place on the Olympic suffering team and relax with some wine and adultery?
Scott: "Emma's I'm serious, about the whole celibacy thing. Its Jean or nothing."

So if Emma can't get it physically, she goes for the next best thing. The psychic realm. She repeatedly tells Cyke what they're doing is "just thoughts." But she as well as any other telepath knows its much more than that. Its like having real sex, as well as bringing in the betrayl of the mind as well. Scott didn't give in to just physical lust, but his mind and heart which are supposed to be shared with Jean.

Emma pushed on the affair after Scott told her No in New 138. She resorted to looking like Jean. and further confused him with her mumbo jumbo.
Evidence:
"Emma, I'm betraying my wife. I can't go on lke this."
(some more text where Scoot expalins he's not like this.)
"oh for heaven's sake! Do you like me with red hair?" as she transforms herself into Jean.

She is clearly playing on whatever is left Scott feels for Jean when he said its jean or nothing.

Emma really did exploit this confusion by telling Cyke that its nothing more than just thoughts.
Cyek's mental state: "But its just thoughts, isn't it? Its...I actually don't know why it feels so wrong...I don't know whats wrong and what's right anymore."

All this while mocking Jean and not giving her a straight answer is what finally set Jean off. Because Jean gave her a chance to just talk and tell her what the hell was going on, but Emma was still stubborn.
On an intersting side note, I can't believe Jean waited this long. I would have been steamed when Emma stuck out her tongue and refused to help in 121. She's a teammate and should be trusted to watch your back. Not stab it like she has done.

[UMichWolverine]

I really did just come back into comics about 6 months ago so I am not totally clear on Emma and her Diamond form. However, I have gathered that she is invulnerable to Psychic attacks while in this form.

This seem to be points of contention as to:

a) If Emma really was killed and if she was the "Murder at the Mansion"

and

b) Jean is the one who shattered her.

I'm not buying that Emma really is dead. It seems far to convenient and I expect a twist.

However, lets run with the idea that she is gone.

It is a pretty big assumption that Jean killed her.

Lets take a look at some other options

Scott certainly could've snapped (Yeah he is supposedly run off again :rolleyes: I actually laughed when Xavier said "Not the search for Scott again") and shattered her. Isn't he supposed to have some innate ability for spatial relations and being able to maximize the effect of the laser blast. And I do believe that lasers can cut diamond.

Wolverine has claws that can cut through anything. This is unlikely but who knows how he could snap when it comes to Jean.

The Stepfords certainly had motive but then we come back at the Psychic vulnerability issue.

And there are any number of other mutants out there that could've done it but these are the big guns we saw in this issue.

So we come back to good old Jean/Phoenix.

Motive: Check
Opportunity: Check
Ability: Jean is a Telekinetic. If Emma is invulnerable to Psychic attacks does that mean she is invulnerable to TK attacks too? Jean with the Phoenix power inside certainly could've shattered her telekinetically.

Alright, now that I've thrown my two cents into this extensive albiet very enjoyable debate, I shall yield the floor.

:D

[Anthony Cordova]

Originally posted by Chronotrigger
How could her anger be unfounded? Seeing all that trust you put in your husband by not reading his mind shattered with a fellow co-worker is big reason for anger. Jean actually took it pretty easy on Emma. In real life, with no powers, Emma could have been dead right then there by a knife, a bullet, etc. So given all that she could have done to Emma, Jean went quite easy with all she did. If you can't grasp the intimacy, that's understandable, but can you grasp that the psychic sex is just as tangible as real sex?

You're really beating this into the ground, though. Sure, things that happen on the psi-plane sometimes have an effect on the physical plane, but there are just as many examples of things that don't carry over (Psylocke being shattered by the Shadow King, Rogue getting a funky new costume, etc etc). Both arguments have merit, both are in canon, and you just have to pick a side when talking about. Guess which side I'm picking. :D

Jean's tried to talk to Scott on several occasions. Once after the initial Cassandra nova attack when she is in a hospital bed, the other when they were taking care of Beast. Both times Scott gave her cold answers, or worked his way around the question. Jean is a grown up woman. She tried. Are you expecting her to baby sit Scott Summers 24/7 and hold his hand? I surely hope not because she has better things to do like actually moving mutants place up in the world.

Actually, they were in their bedroom after the Cassie Nova attack.
She tells him that she doesn't like him being "distant and cold all the time. Its driving me mad." and that "we've barely touched each other for five months. And right now, this marriage feels very strange and cold." I mean, hello?!? Can you cut the guy some slack, please? So he turned Emma down in Hong Kong, and whats the first thing his wife does when he gets back? Asks him if he boinked her. It was heavily insinuated that something happened between Emma and Scott in Hong Kong, but nobody really knew. Imagine being in Scott's position. He was, literally, raped mentally - that has GOT to create some intimacy issues. So, he closes himself off emotionally, and becomes celibate. Fast forward a little to when Emma joins the team - he pretty much tells her he's not interested, regardless of her advances. During this time, his wife doesn't try to understand that he's dealing with issues, nor does she try to help him through those issues by relating what she did to get over several similar experiences. Not "Scott, please, we need to talk about our marriage." As a matter of fact, she took herself into a forest to find Logan ... so that they play tonsil hockey. All of happens, mind you, before Scott ever accpeted Emma's sexual advances. Why wasn't Jean going after Scott when she discovered his infidelity? I'll tell you why - because she knew that it would end up making her look like a complete jackass. So she went after Emma, and somehow ended up looking a bully and a jackass. Go, Jean!

[Anthony Cordova]

Originally posted by UMichWolverine

I'm not buying that Emma really is dead. It seems far to convenient and I expect a twist.

However, lets run with the idea that she is gone.

It is a pretty big assumption that Jean killed her.

Lets take a look at some other options

Scott certainly could've snapped (Yeah he is supposedly run off again :rolleyes: I actually laughed when Xavier said &quot;Not the search for Scott again&quot;) and shattered her. Isn't he supposed to have some innate ability for spatial relations and being able to maximize the effect of the laser blast. And I do believe that lasers can cut diamond.

Wolverine has claws that can cut through anything. This is unlikely but who knows how he could snap when it comes to Jean.

The Stepfords certainly had motive but then we come back at the Psychic vulnerability issue.

And there are any number of other mutants out there that could've done it but these are the big guns we saw in this issue.

So we come back to good old Jean/Phoenix.

Motive: Check
Opportunity: Check
Ability: Jean is a Telekinetic. If Emma is invulnerable to Psychic attacks does that mean she is invulnerable to TK attacks too? Jean with the Phoenix power inside certainly could've shattered her telekinetically.

There is also Xorn, who may have thought it would be helping Scott and his marriage if Emma was gone. It also could be suicide - if she is, in fact, dead. Which I doubt ... but I doubted Xavier and Cassandra switched bodies in 'E is for Extinction', so there you go ...

Oh, and Emma is immune to telepathy, not psionics in general. Telekinesis, pyrokinesis, etc etc should all effect her.

[Chronotrigger]

Originally posted by UMichWolverine
I really did just come back into comics about 6 months ago so I am not totally clear on Emma and her Diamond form. However, I have gathered that she is invulnerable to Psychic attacks while in this form.

This seem to be points of contention as to:

a) If Emma really was killed and if she was the &quot;Murder at the Mansion&quot;

and

b) Jean is the one who shattered her.

I'm not buying that Emma really is dead. It seems far to convenient and I expect a twist.

However, lets run with the idea that she is gone.

It is a pretty big assumption that Jean killed her.

Lets take a look at some other options

Scott certainly could've snapped (Yeah he is supposedly run off again :rolleyes: I actually laughed when Xavier said &quot;Not the search for Scott again&quot;) and shattered her. Isn't he supposed to have some innate ability for spatial relations and being able to maximize the effect of the laser blast. And I do believe that lasers can cut diamond.

Wolverine has claws that can cut through anything. This is unlikely but who knows how he could snap when it comes to Jean.

The Stepfords certainly had motive but then we come back at the Psychic vulnerability issue.

And there are any number of other mutants out there that could've done it but these are the big guns we saw in this issue.

So we come back to good old Jean/Phoenix.

Motive: Check
Opportunity: Check
Ability: Jean is a Telekinetic. If Emma is invulnerable to Psychic attacks does that mean she is invulnerable to TK attacks too? Jean with the Phoenix power inside certainly could've shattered her telekinetically.

Alright, now that I've thrown my two cents into this extensive albiet very enjoyable debate, I shall yield the floor.

:D

There has been nothing to really indicate Emma is immune to psychic attack. In fact Jean was the only who was able to find her telepathically when she was buried. and Marth the Mutant brain had Emma under her control. If anything she has no defenses in diamond form.

[Chronotrigger]

Originally posted by Dragonspawn01


There is also Xorn, who may have thought it would be helping Scott and his marriage if Emma was gone. It also could be suicide - if she is, in fact, dead. Which I doubt ... but I doubted Xavier and Cassandra switched bodies in 'E is for Extinction', so there you go ...

Oh, and Emma is immune to telepathy, not psionics in general. Telekinesis, pyrokinesis, etc etc should all effect her.

Once again, Emma is not immune to telepathy in diamond form. Jean and Martha the mutant brain proved this. What more proof do you want?

[Chronotrigger]

Originally posted by Dragonspawn01


You're really beating this into the ground, though. Sure, things that happen on the psi-plane sometimes have an effect on the physical plane, but there are just as many examples of things that don't carry over (Psylocke being shattered by the Shadow King, Rogue getting a funky new costume, etc etc). Both arguments have merit, both are in canon, and you just have to pick a side when talking about. Guess which side I'm picking. :D



Actually, they were in their bedroom after the Cassie Nova attack.
She tells him that she doesn't like him being &quot;distant and cold all the time. Its driving me mad.&quot; and that &quot;we've barely touched each other for five months. And right now, this marriage feels very strange and cold.&quot; I mean, hello?!? Can you cut the guy some slack, please? So he turned Emma down in Hong Kong, and whats the first thing his wife does when he gets back? Asks him if he boinked her. It was heavily insinuated that something happened between Emma and Scott in Hong Kong, but nobody really knew. Imagine being in Scott's position. He was, literally, raped mentally - that has GOT to create some intimacy issues. So, he closes himself off emotionally, and becomes celibate. Fast forward a little to when Emma joins the team - he pretty much tells her he's not interested, regardless of her advances. During this time, his wife doesn't try to understand that he's dealing with issues, nor does she try to help him through those issues by relating what she did to get over several similar experiences. Not &quot;Scott, please, we need to talk about our marriage.&quot; As a matter of fact, she took herself into a forest to find Logan ... so that they play tonsil hockey. All of happens, mind you, before Scott ever accpeted Emma's sexual advances. Why wasn't Jean going after Scott when she discovered his infidelity? I'll tell you why - because she knew that it would end up making her look like a complete jackass. So she went after Emma, and somehow ended up looking a bully and a jackass. Go, Jean!

I explained in my post and gave plenty of reason why Jean should have gone after Emma. The street walker straight out asked for the affair, when Scott turned her down phsyically she resorted to exploiting his confused state, and then began psyhically having sex with him. When he told her they have to stop, she continued it simply because "poor Emma" was feeling lustful.

Psylocke would have died when shadowking shattered her psi-form, but the Crimson Dawn healed her. Saved her life once again. She said this during the Psi war written by Joe Kelly.
I don't know what Rogue incident you are refering to, but if she got a new costume on the astral plane it wouldn't tansfer over because Rogue couldn't physically create a new costume. You're expecting a reality warper here if taht were the case.
The case with Emma and Scott is that their bodies felt like they were having sex. Similarly, the changes in their costumes did not carry over, but the things they felt did.

[UMichWolverine]

Originally posted by Chronotrigger


Once again, Emma is not immune to telepathy in diamond form. Jean and Martha the mutant brain proved this. What more proof do you want?

Just one more please :LOL: Like I said, I wasn't clear on Emma's diamond form so I will take your word for it that she is vulnerable to psychic attacks.

[Chronotrigger]

Originally posted by UMichWolverine


Just one more please :LOL: Like I said, I wasn't clear on Emma's diamond form so I will take your word for it that she is vulnerable to psychic attacks.

Sorry if I repeated myself. At least said you weren't sure, but dragonspawn stated it like it was fact. Which isn't true of this case at all if we look at the evidence. Welcome to the boards by the way. ;)

[matrix]

This was a good issue but i was really hoping Morrison would used the three way relationship before the murder story arc but i'm willing to go where this trail of murder leeds. good art though, i like phil better than Frank Quielty ( i hope i spell this right) it seems to work more with the story

[Icemanfan21]

All I can say is the page where Jean is manifesting the Phoenix raptor and Emma is crouched on the ground? WOW. All I could say was wow. I literally opened my mouth, said "wow," and then realized that I had just made my first verbal utterance of excitement about a comic book in over ten years of reading. It was amazing.

[Anthony Cordova]

Originally posted by Chronotrigger


Sorry if I repeated myself. At least said you weren't sure, but dragonspawn stated it like it was fact. Which isn't true of this case at all if we look at the evidence. Welcome to the boards by the way. ;)

Well, I'm reading my NXM collection right now - I'll make a mental note of where exactly it is I remember reading that Emma is immune to telepathy in her diamond form. If not, I'll concede that I was wrong - its happened before, on occasion.

[perceval]

Originally posted by Dragonspawn01


And here is where great discussion comes in - differing opinions. For me, its difficult to really GRASP the intimacy of sharing minds, because I've never had the pleasure. I sypmathisize more with Emma and Scott than Jean here, because her anger is unfounded to me - it essentially boils to her being angry at a fantasy, which is completely ridiculous.


With telepaths, it's a bit more than cybersex. It may as WELL be physical, because they feel every sensation physically. So, this is the equivelent of constant regular makeout sessions, and with the removing of clothes that was going on when Jean walked in, obviously leading to something more. So, Jean walked in on a husband that was regularly making out with this other woman, and was about to have sex with her.

And if you were to walk in on your significant other making out with someone else, and undressing for sex, you're going to tell me you wouldn't be the least bit angry? Can anyone honestly say they're absolutely perfectly nice and calm in thier reactions to things when they're seeing red? You've never once said a not nice thing to someone when you were enraged with them?

And, if you're going to use the "It was just thoughts" defense for Scott and Emma, then Jean did nothing bad to Emma, at all. Jean didn't lay a finger on Emma. "It was just thoughts".

E

[Anthony Cordova]

Originally posted by perceval


With telepaths, it's a bit more than cybersex. It may as WELL be physical, because they feel every sensation physically. So, this is the equivelent of constant regular makeout sessions, and with the removing of clothes that was going on when Jean walked in, obviously leading to something more. So, Jean walked in on a husband that was regularly making out with this other woman, and was about to have sex with her.

And if you were to walk in on your significant other making out with someone else, and undressing for sex, you're going to tell me you wouldn't be the least bit angry? Can anyone honestly say they're absolutely perfectly nice and calm in thier reactions to things when they're seeing red? You've never once said a not nice thing to someone when you were enraged with them?

And, if you're going to use the &quot;It was just thoughts&quot; defense for Scott and Emma, then Jean did nothing bad to Emma, at all. Jean didn't lay a finger on Emma. &quot;It was just thoughts&quot;.

E

Well, Scott's not a telepath - is the experience the same for him? Would there be quite so much of a problem if Emma was pushing Scott's "bliss button" all day, but they weren't having psi-sex? Same effects, different causes, but whats the difference? When it all comes down to it, why is EMMA being villified here, when it takes two people to tango? Why are Jean and Charles brushing Scott off like he was inconsequential to everything that was going on?

Also, we don't really know if Jean layed a finger on Emma or not, seeing as how the poor dear is shattered into several hundred pieces at the moment. :D And I'm pretty sure I never said Jean was bad to Emma - I actually think Emma needed to hear/remember/experience those memories. I guess my biggest complaint is Jean's behaviour towards Scott. Actually, everyone's behavior towards Scott, except Hank.

BTW, Chronotrigger, I just finished reading NXM 119 - you were right about Emma's diamond form. God knows where I read she was immune to telepathy, but the reading continues! I shall not rest until I find it!

[Portsian]

mmmmmm

I know people are sayng that Emma immune in her diamond form etc, but when in NXM did she take on Diamond Form against Jean's TP? I dont rememebr seeing that at all! First it was on astral plane anyway in Scott and Emma's heads, then I think on physical world................

[FUBL]

hmm Jean having a rapid mood swing could the nest of phoenix mean something else

[perceval]

Oh, she was plenty mad at Scott, but first she needed to see if his actions were really his own. Needed to make sure Emma wasn't being possessed by Betsy, for one thing, with the running around half naked, using British phrases, and coming on to Scott :)

E

[Natester]

can jean teleport people now?

she teleported scott outside and gave him a shirt to wear... :?

[Twilight]

That U-men leader said it best..."Maybe we could split you into living shards and turn you into some kinda kinky human chandelier." Hot!

Jean didnt teleport Scott. She gave him a fierce tk shove. I would have preferred one of her starbursts for his treachery. Scott was fully dressed. He was shirtless on the psi-plane. Hello--psychic affair!

[Judius]

Originally posted by Natester
can jean teleport people now?

she teleported scott outside and gave him a shirt to wear... :?

You're right, not only did Jean teleport all 3 of them from the hedges into Emma's bedroom between that page of last issue and the beginning of this ssue but she also destroyed Scott's jacket he was wearing! Sure he couldve taken it off when he was undressing in the psychic bedroom when he was undresiing but then why didnt he also remove his real shirt?! Of course he wouldnt have taken the shirt off or the jacket cause they were outside but then all of a sudden we see them INSIDE in this issue which only begins less then a second later. The artist simply got sloppy and confused and mixed up the psychic bedroom with the real one and forgot they were all supposed to be outside as we saw at the conclusion of last issue.

[spinarakboi]

Originally posted by Chronotrigger


What was Emma doing? A lot more than she should have to their marriage and for all the wrong reasons. A post from another board:
Emma was sure coercing him. Maybe it started out with Scott asking for help, but she quickly took advantage of Scott's mental state concerning the marriage and Jean to her advanatge.


False assumption:
Emma is not manipulating or coercing the affair.

Evidence: This is so not true. She may not be outright forcing Scott, but given his confused state, it doesn't take much to persuade him. As shown in the scene in Hong Kong:


Emma really did exploit this confusion by telling Cyke that its nothing more than just thoughts.
Cyek's mental state: &quot;But its just thoughts, isn't it? Its...I actually don't know why it feels so wrong...I don't know whats wrong and what's right anymore.&quot;

It was also shown that Emma was also hurting and confused. As far as I'm concerned she was in love and given your cold manipulating past she didn't know what to do... so I don't think she was pulling any strings here.. she thought she should be with Scott and could have him.. there is nothing wrong with that in my opinion... but enought about that.

[Portsian]

but i think she was in love and pulling his strings - to get back at Jean and to try and get Scott - have we seen any evidence that she knows how to behave appropriately in issues of the heart? I haven't.

Throughout her life she has been aloner - making it on her own, and even using the men in her life like Sebastian Shaw etc. I am not sure if she knows HOW to show her love: she loves Scott, she will do whatever she can to get him - just cos you love soemoen doesn;t mean you are gonna be nice about it - especially if it is unrequited.............

And I knwo this from persoanl experience. cos I ahve been a complete bitch in my time . but not gona give any details....

[Arachne]

Originally posted by Chronotrigger


Jean/Wolverine kissed have only appeared twice since their marriage. The first time he kissed her. the second time its debatable who kissed who, but it never went farther. Both times can be blamed on Scott's cold treatment of her. She didn't feel comfort, the love she wanted from and is supposed to get from him. It was Scott who pushed her away first. I'm not saying its right, but its a hell of a lot better than what Cyclops has done.
So where's this third phantom kiss?

Once was in X-Factor, during the whole mutate thing.

[Chronotrigger]

Originally posted by Arachne


Once was in X-Factor, during the whole mutate thing.

But they weren't married then. Wolverine kissed her because he was bleeding to death and his healing factor was not working.

[Arachne]

Originally posted by maggottman
Just occured to me: on the subject of Cyclops falling for telepaths, I seem to remember some storyline, way back in the early issues of X-Men (2nd series), where he fell for Psylocke. Or didn't fall for Psylocke. Or it wasn't Psylocke, but a skrull. Or something. If any of the longer readers could fill in the giant gap here, it would make some interesting fodder for supposed infidelity in Cyclops' past.

Actually it's the opposite- telepaths have a thing for Scott. Right after Besty switched bodies, she tried to seduce Scott, to prove she was better than Jean. Nothing came about from it- no affiar, no kiss. Not long after that, Besty and Warren hooked up.

[Arachne]

Originally posted by Chronotrigger


But they weren't married then. Wolverine kissed her because he was bleeding to death and his healing factor was not working.

Cheating still cheating, if your married or not. If my boyfriend kissed another chick, I'd be pissed off. But Scott's never done anything about the Jean/Logan thing. She just plays the two of them off each other, until Logan finally ended it at the start of New X-Men. Remember Jean threw herself at Logan before Scott and Emma started anything.

[ChibiKasai]

Time to nitpick...

The art and coloring in this issue was beyond sloppy. For example:

Plenty of people have pointed out that issue 138 ended with Scott, Emma and Jean in the Garden, but picks up in 139 with them in Emma's bedroom.

Also of note: 138 ended with Emma wearing civvies- Long sleeve shirt, pants, and boots. Her hair was in pigtails.
139 opens up, and she's suddenly in costume, with her hair down.
Cyclops also loses his jacket.

Professor X seems to have changed ties since the awards ceremony...
Aww, heck... Xorn's jacket changes too. And look at Logan- He not only changes clothes, he also seems to have shaved off the goatee he was sporting in 138. :shame:

Jean's boots keep losing and regaining their gold trim.

Plus, it was obviously late evening when 138 ended. Check out the very end of the Logan/Emma scene in 139- It's suddenly daylight. That's either a definate error, or the Emma/Jean catfight was going on for several hours. You be the judge.

As far as the writing goes... Emma's little story of her past threw me, since it definately doesn't match up to previous continuity. Blah.

Oh, well, needless to say, I wasn't very pleased with this issue. Let's hope the next one's better...

I'm out...

[Airhead]

Originally posted by ChibiKasai
Time to nitpick...

The art and coloring in this issue was beyond sloppy. For example:

Plenty of people have pointed out that issue 138 ended with Scott, Emma and Jean in the Garden, but picks up in 139 with them in Emma's bedroom.

Also of note: 138 ended with Emma wearing civvies- Long sleeve shirt, pants, and boots. Her hair was in pigtails.
139 opens up, and she's suddenly in costume, with her hair down.
Cyclops also loses his jacket.

Professor X seems to have changed ties since the awards ceremony...
Aww, heck... Xorn's jacket changes too. And look at Logan- He not only changes clothes, he also seems to have shaved off the goatee he was sporting in 138. :shame:

Jean's boots keep losing and regaining their gold trim.

Plus, it was obviously late evening when 138 ended. Check out the very end of the Logan/Emma scene in 139- It's suddenly daylight. That's either a definate error, or the Emma/Jean catfight was going on for several hours. You be the judge.

As far as the writing goes... Emma's little story of her past threw me, since it definately doesn't match up to previous continuity. Blah.

Oh, well, needless to say, I wasn't very pleased with this issue. Let's hope the next one's better...

I'm out...
Calm Down!
It's a new artist!
Sure some things will be different from last issue!
Every one has there own style!
I loved the art!
It wasn't as good as Frank's art but better than Igor's!:D

[ChibiKasai]

Originally posted by Airhead

Calm Down!
It's a new artist!
Sure some things will be different from last issue!
Every one has there own style!
I loved the art!
It wasn't as good as Frank's art but better than Igor's!:D

Let me make myself clearer...
The art style and everything was good, but I'm just dissappointed that they couldn't keep simple issue to issue continuity. How hard is it to go back and double check what a character was wearing, what time of day it was supposed to be, etc?

I wasn't freaking out, I was just pointing out that there were *alot* of inconsistincies (sp?) between the 2 issues. More than I found acceptable. Heck, I found even more on my 3rd reading, but I won't go into that.

If anything, I don't blame Jimenez as much I do the editors for not catching any of that. I mean, that's what they're paid to do, right?

[Anthony Cordova]

Originally posted by ChibiKasai


Let me make myself clearer...
The art style and everything was good, but I'm just dissappointed that they couldn't keep simple issue to issue continuity. How hard is it to go back and double check what a character was wearing, what time of day it was supposed to be, etc?



Well, they are two different artists, so its pretty much a given things will change from each issue. Its not like the editors or Phil saw the previous issue that much sooner than we did, I think - Quitely's art is, as we all know, pretty slow. I'm willing to bet Phil started this some time ago ( his Wonder Woman run was sometimes off, but I think thats because he was writing and penciling). He's a great artist with good work ethics, and any such inconsitencies pale in comparison to the actual plot of the issue.

[stoney]

Could the diamonds on the floor be a metaphor. Emma's not dead, but her wall of indifference has been shattered. Like a cocoon. Maybe she has emerged with her secondary mutation complete.

[Unicorn_Pegasus]

Emma is getting her own series (which is slated to only be in the past for the first year, then it catches up with current continuity) so I highly doubt she's deceased. I belive someone wants everyone to think Jean's killed Emma. I have this nagging fear it's gonna be Jean that buys the farm later on. I thought the story was alright, but Jean going nuts-o is not my idea of cool, and the art wasn't bad, I prefered it to the status quo for New. :)

[Portsian]

Originally posted by Arachne


Cheating still cheating, if your married or not. If my boyfriend kissed another chick, I'd be pissed off. But Scott's never done anything about the Jean/Logan thing. She just plays the two of them off each other, until Logan finally ended it at the start of New X-Men. Remember Jean threw herself at Logan before Scott and Emma started anything.

I hardly think KJean threw herself at Logan - theri relationship is complex and going back many many years, and jean was lonley and vulnerable. Scott had nto touched her fro months., she is allowing him to deal with it and giove himi space. but it is a bit difficult is someon is going through mental turmoil to say - give us a shag I have needs'.

that si nto to say that her and Logan are good / bad. they never acvtuall went as far as emma and Scott, and Jean was lokinf for solace, not sex. But I do agree - the whole Logan / Scott / jean is closed, as of then because of Logans reaction. there is no more Logan. jean / scott......

[lightwards]

Originally posted by unicorn_pegasus
Emma is getting her own series (which is slated to only be in the past for the first year, then it catches up with current continuity) so I highly doubt she's deceased. I belive someone wants everyone to think Jean's killed Emma. I have this nagging fear it's gonna be Jean that buys the farm later on. I thought the story was alright, but Jean going nuts-o is not my idea of cool, and the art wasn't bad, I prefered it to the status quo for New. :)

Jean can't buy the farm because the Phoenix is supposed to become the main arc around #150. So she'll have to stick around until then.

[jcolvin]

Great Review. I am curious, did they mention any part about Scott's part in this or did they blame it all on Emma.

[wizzbizz]

having read about 6 issues of xmen related comics today, both unlimited issues and solder x to name a few, this issue stood out with its deep thought provocing storyline and character interaction. We see here what has made xmen titles so popular down through the years. 10/10

[jack frost 23]

Originally posted by lightwards


Jean can't buy the farm because the Phoenix is supposed to become the main arc around #150. So she'll have to stick around until then.

Well, no. Jean can die, and the Phoenix live on.

[HandofGod]

1st Before I go on to burn the writers at marvel, and some of you: I give praise to the artists for this issue....very pretty colors.

The bashing:
1. If Emma was engaged in a psychic affair with Scott(and yes they are just fantasies just like self-pleasure about someone else is not cheating on your sig. other. ) Well if Jean is judging her and you are judging her by this context...then what Jean did was a crime. She mind-raped Emma("PLEASE DON'T DO THIS") she brutalized her, and to top it off they "killed" the emma character at the end. And Jean is suppose to be one of the good guys....what's that? the Phoenix making Jean evil, or less human? Been there done that. What an insult to The Dark Phoenix saga.....and Emma falling in love with Cyke...please that's as believable as Prof. X and Jubliee becoming an item.

2. F@#$ You Marvel. What a bunch of crap writing. You want to kill characters, ok then....do it properly....hell even the pointless Psylocke death and the aftermath of having deal with the "emotions" of it is better than "look we killed the cool bitch, find out what happens next"....now they want to do a memory strole down Emma Frosts life in her own series....blah spare me. You want to be creative and play with your characters go to Ultimate Xmen.....you got a break with AOA didn't you. Or how about what if's?
Good deaths so far Original Blink(it was sad but nicely done), Collossus(sad to see him go, but wow) DarkStar(pointless, sad, and quick).
Sofie(wasted potential, but hell it meant more than some Days of Ours Lives crap)

Stupid deaths: Jean for the uptenth time. Charles for the uptenth time. And they should have stayed dead. Like we need more cosmic powered-ever-mind-do-whatever they want superheros....let them go play with Thanos or the silver surfer then stay in the Xmen. Speaking of cosmis awarness...LETS HERE IF FOR CAPTAIN MARVEL for being a totally insane comic yet fun to read and good writing.

I guess that's what X-Men is after all a 'comic' book and suppose to be funny. Yup I am def. laughing at the writers antics at the moment.

[Chronotrigger]

Originally posted by HandofGod
1st Before I go on to burn the writers at marvel, and some of you: I give praise to the artists for this issue....very pretty colors.

The bashing:
1. If Emma was engaged in a psychic affair with Scott(and yes they are just fantasies just like self-pleasure about someone else is not cheating on your sig. other. ) Well if Jean is judging her and you are judging her by this context...then what Jean did was a crime. She mind-raped Emma(&quot;PLEASE DON'T DO THIS&quot;) she brutalized her, and to top it off they &quot;killed&quot; the emma character at the end. And Jean is suppose to be one of the good guys....what's that? the Phoenix making Jean evil, or less human? Been there done that. What an insult to The Dark Phoenix saga.....and Emma falling in love with Cyke...please that's as believable as Prof. X and Jubliee becoming an item.

2. F@#$ You Marvel. What a bunch of crap writing. You want to kill characters, ok then....do it properly....hell even the pointless Psylocke death and the aftermath of having deal with the &quot;emotions&quot; of it is better than &quot;look we killed the cool bitch, find out what happens next&quot;....now they want to do a memory strole down Emma Frosts life in her own series....blah spare me. You want to be creative and play with your characters go to Ultimate Xmen.....you got a break with AOA didn't you. Or how about what if's?
Good deaths so far Original Blink(it was sad but nicely done), Collossus(sad to see him go, but wow) DarkStar(pointless, sad, and quick).
Sofie(wasted potential, but hell it meant more than some Days of Ours Lives crap)

Stupid deaths: Jean for the uptenth time. Charles for the uptenth time. And they should have stayed dead. Like we need more cosmic powered-ever-mind-do-whatever they want superheros....let them go play with Thanos or the silver surfer then stay in the Xmen. Speaking of cosmis awarness...LETS HERE IF FOR CAPTAIN MARVEL for being a totally insane comic yet fun to read and good writing.

I guess that's what X-Men is after all a 'comic' book and suppose to be funny. Yup I am def. laughing at the writers antics at the moment.

Why don't you try calming down a little. You're entitled to your opinion, but it doesn't change others opinions or facts that are known about telepaths such as things happening in the mind effect the body. That makes a telepathic affair equivalent to if not worse than a physical one.
And judging by the tone of your post, do you think that you would have been acting nice and calm if you were put into this situation?

[HandofGod]

Exactly my point if telepathic activities are to be viewed as real, then what Jean did was unacceptable, illegal, immoral. It was rape on Emma. Emma has attempted this same effect on Storm, but she was Zapped, so it wasnt as completed, but still Storm hasn't forgiven Emma for it.

Xavier tried a similar telepathic rape on Amelia Voight in the past....and it was a strong issue that dealt with the hurt and guilt of having done so.

Jean mind-rapes Emma and all she gets was "you are out of line missy" Jeans reply:
"I'm the Phoenix....whatever whatever I can do what I want". I'm sorry but rape is a lot worse to me than infidelity. Scott being manipulated by Emma, just like he was manipulated by Betsy in the past....yeah give the character some backbone. Its always the mistress that is blamed. Here is a joke I saw on tv:
"everyone blames Monica Lewinsky for being a whore and not the victim. She was a 23 year old kid when the president of the united states started hitting on her....hell if the president started hitting on me I'd #$@& him too" as said by a male comedian.

This whole story arc is annoying because it is a soap opera spotlighted by Marvel's deity The Phoenix aka Jean Grey.
And no Marvel, it is not a great episode that makes your readers think....I am responding to other peoples thoughts in this thread

[Chronotrigger]

Originally posted by HandofGod
Exactly my point if telepathic activities are to be viewed as real, then what Jean did was unacceptable, illegal, immoral. It was rape on Emma. Emma has attempted this same effect on Storm, but she was Zapped, so it wasnt as completed, but still Storm hasn't forgiven Emma for it.

Xavier tried a similar telepathic rape on Amelia Voight in the past....and it was a strong issue that dealt with the hurt and guilt of having done so.

Jean mind-rapes Emma and all she gets was &quot;you are out of line missy&quot; Jeans reply:
&quot;I'm the Phoenix....whatever whatever I can do what I want&quot;. I'm sorry but rape is a lot worse to me than infidelity. Scott being manipulated by Emma, just like he was manipulated by Betsy in the past....yeah give the character some backbone. Its always the mistress that is blamed. Here is a joke I saw on tv:
&quot;everyone blames Monica Lewinsky for being a whore and not the victim. She was a 23 year old kid when the president of the united states started hitting on her....hell if the president started hitting on me I'd #$@&amp; him too&quot; as said by a male comedian.

This whole story arc is annoying because it is a soap opera spotlighted by Marvel's deity The Phoenix aka Jean Grey.
And no Marvel, it is not a great episode that makes your readers think....I am responding to other peoples thoughts in this thread

To me in infidelity is worse. Betrayal of both mind and body.
I didn't think Jean's rummage through Emma's memories was that bad. She made her relive a couple "memories", nothing worse than any other telepath(which all 3 Xavier, Jean, and Emma) violating a person's thoughts.
At least Jean had a reason to do this: to find the truth and to see what makes Emma the witch that she is. Jean didn't do this for fun like Frost has done on countless occasions.

[HandofGod]

Wow its like you completly didnt read what I just wrote.
I do not worship the Jean goddess sorry. no the character of Emma was physically traumatized by Jean's attack or did you miss the tears. Emma in the past has been villain, wickness is part of her character. Jean should be a little more balanced.
Nope infidently isn't so bad, it happens people make mistakes, whatever. Mind-rape violation is worse.
If you are going by the basis that telepathic activities are just as real and should be viewed as real, then:
Infedilty happens, and it doesn't constitute jail or prison time.
Rape does.

[Chronotrigger]

Originally posted by HandofGod
Wow its like you completly didnt read what I just wrote.
I do not worship the Jean goddess sorry. no the character of Emma was physically traumatized by Jean's attack or did you miss the tears. Emma in the past has been villain, wickness is part of her character. Jean should be a little more balanced.
Nope infidently isn't so bad, it happens people make mistakes, whatever. Mind-rape violation is worse.
If you are going by the basis that telepathic activities are just as real and should be viewed as real, then:
Infedilty happens, and it doesn't constitute jail or prison time.
Rape does.

I did read what you wrote, and in my opinion what Jean did to Emma was not as bad as Emma and Cyke having an affair.
Yes, Jean should not have did what she did. But if you want more balanced and this is all a part of that balance. I mean how much can one person take. Emma has make remarks at her, completely ignored her on the astral plane when she needed Emma's help, and now she attempts to physically seduce Jean's husband, and then proceeds to successfully secude him psychically. Jean snapped. She could have done much worse, but didn't yet which shows she's still in control.
And Jean didn't violate Emma's thoughts so much as she brought Emma into her own. The nature of Jean's phoenix powers meant that all of Emma's thoughts that she didn't need in Jean's mind were burnt away.
"I'm not in your thoughts. Your thoughts are enfolded in mine."

If you consider going through people's thoughts a jailable offense, then Emma, Jean, and every telepath in the marvel universe should be behind bars. And could what Emma did to Scott be considered a less direct form of your so called "mind rape". He told her he wanted to stop, but without his consent she begins manipulating his thoughts and brings him into her thoughts. Not much different from what Jean did to Emma just not as direct.

[HandofGod]

You are right most telepaths should be regulated yes?
As I said Scott should take some responsiblity.....
Thats why chuck was always like....I feel so horrible for violating this persons thoughts for the uptenth time....or what about Babylon 5....the whole issue with controlled telepaths.
But, back to basics, Jean shouldnt have snapped....Emma is an evil nutter that is part of the appeal of her character. Jean is suppose to be cooler. The issue where she 1st encountered Onslaught on the astral plane really nailed her original character sans the phoenix garbage.

[Anthony Cordova]

Originally posted by Chronotrigger


I did read what you wrote, and in my opinion what Jean did to Emma was not as bad as Emma and Cyke having an affair.
Yes, Jean should not have did what she did. But if you want more balanced and this is all a part of that balance. I mean how much can one person take. Emma has make remarks at her, completely ignored her on the astral plane when she needed Emma's help, and now she attempts to physically seduce Jean's husband, and then proceeds to successfully secude him psychically. Jean snapped. She could have done much worse, but didn't yet which shows she's still in control.
And Jean didn't violate Emma's thoughts so much as she brought Emma into her own. The nature of Jean's phoenix powers meant that all of Emma's thoughts that she didn't need in Jean's mind were burnt away.
&quot;I'm not in your thoughts. Your thoughts are enfolded in mine.&quot;

If you consider going through people's thoughts a jailable offense, then Emma, Jean, and every telepath in the marvel universe should be behind bars. And could what Emma did to Scott be considered a less direct form of your so called &quot;mind rape&quot;. He told her he wanted to stop, but without his consent she begins manipulating his thoughts and brings him into her thoughts. Not much different from what Jean did to Emma just not as direct.

Its not so much that she forced her to relieve memories, which in itself isn't so bad - it was the particular memories that Jean chose to have her relieve. Those were some of the most painful experiences of Emma's life, and she was forced to relieve them for Jean to justify her anger. Her completely unjustified anger, because in her own words "But they were thinking about it - they were thinking about it the whole time!" She took control of Emma, because she felt that Emma had it coming. If that isn't mind-rape, I don't know what is. Oh, and btw, Scott was a willing participant in Emma's seduction - he made a decision while experiencing extreme emotional turmoil, but it was his decision. If anyone "deserved" the disinfection of the Phoenix, its Scott. Something you'd think his wife would understand, but apparently she doesn't.

[tonio]

it's been stated....i think in 128....that it's nothin more than a thought......that they can share due to emma's telepathy.....no coercing....no mainupluations....no phsycial side effects....cuz if u remeber they both can doeverday activities whiel having thier pyschic afair. So in reality it's not that bad. Jean and wolverine did the samet hing onley worse....they didn't just think about it , they did it. ya know

[Chronotrigger]

Originally posted by Dragonspawn01


Its not so much that she forced her to relieve memories, which in itself isn't so bad - it was the particular memories that Jean chose to have her relieve. Those were some of the most painful experiences of Emma's life, and she was forced to relieve them for Jean to justify her anger. Her completely unjustified anger, because in her own words &quot;But they were thinking about it - they were thinking about it the whole time!&quot; She took control of Emma, because she felt that Emma had it coming. If that isn't mind-rape, I don't know what is. Oh, and btw, Scott was a willing participant in Emma's seduction - he made a decision while experiencing extreme emotional turmoil, but it was [i]his decision. If anyone &quot;deserved&quot; the disinfection of the Phoenix, its Scott. Something you'd think his wife would understand, but apparently she doesn't. [/B]

To Tonio and Dargonspawn bothh:
Yes Scott initially was mutual in the affair. But he wanted to stop. Emma brought him into her thoughts after he said no, that he was bretaying his wife. If we're going by your standards of the affair being just thoughts in this situation than what Jean did to Emma was nothing more than thoughts. It works both ways.
Either way we look at it, none of the characters come out spotless, which makes this book more realistic than ever.

Or are you excusing Emma's invasion of Scott's wants to be just thoughts while when Jean brings Emma into her mind its some horrible crime? Also note worthy is that Jean had to be provoked for her to react this way. Emma in the past issues of New have time and again violated people's thoughts in much worse ways. From prying into people minds to making people relive her pain. Yet I do not see you saying anything about Emma's actions.
I agree, Scott needs some serious help. But Emma was not some victim in this either.

[Patrick Star]

i think Jean did good by kicking Emma's "astral butt". I love Emma but she shouldnt've started interferring with married people. Granted Jean & Scott are having problems but Emma is a BI@cth and she's just playing with him...now if she truly and i do mean TRULY developed feelings for Scott(which I doubt)then its another storie. Anyone here remember the sexual innuendos between Sean Cassidy and Emma in Gen X? Thats all that happened just flirted she's a tease& a flirt and she got what she deserved (she's not dead people, dont know what happened but she aint dead). Jean did what any woman/man would've done, she went after the problem and dealt with it...and remember people the arc has just begun we havent seen what Jean is gonna do to Scott!
Now Emma dear, dont go playing with fire or ur gonna get burned!

[Patrick Star]

Originally posted by Chronotrigger


To Tonio and Dargonspawn bothh:
Yes Scott initially was mutual in the affair. But he wanted to stop. Emma brought him into her thoughts after he said no, that he was bretaying his wife. If we're going by your standards of the affair being just thoughts in this situation than what Jean did to Emma was nothing