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View Full Version : X-MEN UNLIMITED #44 REVIEW


Dave Harris
Apr 22, 2003, 08:14 am
<a href="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/previews/0303/X-MEN_UNLIMITED_44.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/previews/0303/X-MEN_UNLIMITED_44t.jpg" align=left alt="X-Men Unlimited #44"></a>Reviewer: Dave Harris, HeroComplex00@hotmail.com
Quick Rating: Terrible
Story Title: Can They Suffer?

When innocents are being tortured, the X-Men find themselves caught in the middle of something very different!

Written by: Chuck Austen
Penciled by: Romano Molenaar
Inked by: Danny Miki
Colored by: Dean White
Lettered by: Randy Gentile
Assistant Editor: Stephanie Moore
Consulting Editor: Ralph Macchio
AssociateEditor: C.B. Cebulski
Editor: Brian Smith
Editor In Chief: Joe Quesada
President: Bill Jemas

Every month, X-Men Unlimited attempts to give a fresh perspective on the X-Men mythos, to look at things from a new angle. And in the interest of constantly changing things up, this latest X-Men Unlimited story even breaks the mold established by prior issues; this month, the X-Men’s resident anthology book concentrates on a single story, allowing Chuck Austen to tell his story without requiring him to cut his writing at all short. Breaking the regular format and taking a chance with a single story is a commendable choice. But that risk falls through when the story can’t measure up.

The issue as a whole hardly seems worthy of the X-Men name. It makes use of the cast of Uncanny X-Men, but I certainly wouldn’t want it to be a part of the regular series. It breaks the flow established by the recent story arcs and goes off into completely different ground. But I also don’t want it to be a part of the X-Men Unlimited title, as then it must still be established as continuity---within the X-mythos, it carries as much weight as any other story. I would be happiest if this were completely apart from everything X, and I don’t feel that I’m out of line in that respect, considering how the
story is itself in so many ways out of the blue.

In fact, when recalling the story now, more than anything else it feels like a Public Service Announcement. Having gone through a good deal of old X-Men comics, the Heroes for Hope special continues to flash through my mind; this comic is about PETA more than it is about the X-Men. As a comic book, it has about as much value to me as the X-Men issues brought to us by Toys’R’Us.

The entire premise, hunting down the children responsible for torturing animals, is itself nothing horrible. It doesn't seem exactly worth of an entire issue, but there's nothing saying it couldn't beat by expectations. Except for the fact that the execution leaves much to be desired. Among other things, numerous inconsistencies and gaps crop up along the way to completely break whatever flow was being established.

Jean’s foray into a dog’s psyche has questionable merit, but with the burgeoning Phoenix force I suppose that I can accept it. But in addition to probing the mind of a dog, she is also probing the mind of a dead dog. Up until now, the minds of the dead have been inviolate, and in fact being present for a death is meant to be dangerous---it is part of what led the Professor to becoming Onslaught. But here the entire ordeal is dealt with nonchalantly; if done in passing, it could simply be an oversight, but when so much of the story actually concentrates on that flaw, then it really is a glaring and pointless error. When considered alongside Jean’s later unstrained intrusion of Juggernaut’s helmeted mind, I cannot imagine how these mistakes made their ways into the book. When rules for the X-universe have been established, it is really imperative that X-writers follow those rules; without consistency, it all falls down.

Now, the relationship between Sammy and Cain really takes center stage in this issue, and has to be commented upon as well. Their interactions throughout this story feel...off. Sammy appears to have regressed a good deal, firstly. His existence began as a troubled teen contemplating drastic, violent measures, but here he is a child. The art depicts him as probably no older than Carter, stuck at least in a single-digit age, and the writing does the same.

The juxtaposition of his serious introduction with his violent tantrum of an appearance here is utterly bizarre, even taking into account his extreme originating emotions. As much as the story tries to make me feel guilty for it, I actually share some of Cain's perspective---Sammy has gone on a crusade over goldfish, and I have a hard time taking it seriously, especially considering the age he is supposed to be. But on the other side of that coin, Cain isn't stupid, and I find it most unlikely for him to be so dense about Sammy's feelings. He is entitled to his confused reaction, but should really have learned by the end of the story how not to horribly offend his friend.

Lastly, I can't be sure that even Austen really knows what he wants the story to be. It continually oscillates between being entirely serious or being an admitted throwaway story. There are moments, such as Phoenix's horrible and hypocritical mental invasion, betraying every single principle espoused by the Professor earlier, where the story attempts to mold itself into something modern and dark. But those are all counteracted by scenes such as the massive concentration of sap when the moral of the story is forced upon the reader. At one point the "villain" seems destined for serial killerdom, something which is not quite acknowledged, but after only a single page he has become the after-school-special-reminiscent problem child who is used to teach a lesson to the other kids. It tries to be both disturbing and in good fun.

About the art, I don't have anything great to say, but nothing horrible, either. Overall, the depiction of characters was satisfactory, except for the age issues mentioned earlier. Well, that and one other thing---in addition to appearing far too young, Sammy also sported a strong resemblance to Howard the Duck. But that aside, the art is nothing revolutionary, nothing special. It's just average.

I like to think of myself as a very open reader. I will try new things, give them all a fair chance, and make an attempt at objectivity for all of them. But the very act of finishing this issue was physically paining for me, and I can almost assure you that I would have dropped it early had I not known my need to review it. Not only would I avoid recommending this book, but I would actively advise you to keep away from it and save your $2.50 if it isn't too late.

STORY:
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ART:
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OVERALL:
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Buy this issue online now from X-World Comics and save! (http://x-worldcomics.com/yourvirtualstore)

Gat0r-ManX
Apr 22, 2003, 08:30 am
I didn't think it was that bad, although the ending was kinda stupid.

Also the art is pretty nice.

ronin_jw
Apr 22, 2003, 09:22 am
I don't buy this title and i'm glad I don't, though I do have the original 13.

Tan K.
Apr 22, 2003, 09:27 am
I thought it was good issue. Really liked the artist. Potential galore.

Dr. Hank McCoy
Apr 22, 2003, 09:38 am
Re: Juggernaut’s helmeted mind.
Old rules don't apply anymore. Jean is more powerful than ever before and Juggernaut is weaker than ever before. Why is it so hard to believe that Jean can now piece this armour? Do you need the writer to spell out each and every detail?!?!

And you said: without consistency, it all falls down.
Life is inconsistant, as are characters, and if anything, these inconsistencies that you are finding only add to the ever-changing x-mythos.

And my review:
Art: 4
Story: 3.5

Swashbuckler
Apr 22, 2003, 10:36 am
this was a poor review, the story was better then ever, the art ws simply phenominal. This was an unfair judgement.

theory
Apr 22, 2003, 11:39 am
not my favorite issue of unlimited, but i would say it was terrible. marville, for example, is terrible. id go with a poor at the worst. i agree about it not having alot of meaning and sort of being a throw away story, ala some kind of promotional deal. the art was hit and miss with me as well.

cookepuss
Apr 22, 2003, 12:19 pm
I'd have to agree with Hank and Swashbuckler on this one. Dave really gave this issue an unfair grade.

The art was actually pretty darn good. I particularly enjoyed the way Romano portrayed Sammy. Art-wise, there were only a few continuity and clarity issues. Otherwise, it was rather excellent. Before you cast stones on Romano's art, consider that this is actually much better than what Uncanny's been getting over the past several months.

Story-wise, I found it to be extremely powerful. It's all about empathy. You either have it or you don't. Sometimes people need to make you see the light. If you couldn't feel for Jean as she connected with the abused dog then I really feel sad for you. As a dog owner myself, and having seen numerous abused animals, this story really hit home. Jean's dialogue felt right.

This is a VERY strong character piece for Juggernaut too. Typically, abusers don't see the ill in what they do. Typically, psychotics don't start torturing people. They start torturing animals. Abuse is not just about control. It's about a cycle of pain and control. Juggernaut started out as the abused kid. He moved to being abusive to animals. He the moved on to being dominated by Black Tom. Now, he's dominating as the team muscle and as Sammy's "big brother". Jean needed to break that cycle and show Cain that he actually was in one. This was just great.

Chuck has a certain direction in which he's trying to take Cain, as is evidenced by a recent interview. This story very clearly shows that direction. If you felt that Jean couldn't penetrate his helmet... As you'll soon see in a future issue of UXM, Cain is no longer the official Juggernaut. Cytorak has chosen a new avatar. Cain is far less powerful now, holding only a residual amount of power. If you're concerned about Jean reading a dead dog. She's the Phoenix, man. She's becoming the physical embodiment of life and death. Does it seem so far fetched then? If you're going to crucify Sammy over his empathy for dead fish then you might as well do the same to Namor or Aquaman. It has nothing to do with age, Dave. Empathy. Empathy. All life is precious, no matter how small. Even a goldfish should be mourned. If you share some of Cain's viewpoints...... WOW. Check into a nut house. Cain isn't being stupid or dense. He's acting as the typical abuser/abused. He's acting along the lines dictated to him by his cycle.

Story-wise, the only real problem was the third act. The third act wasn't garbage, but you could definitely feel that Chuck needed about a few more pages to finish the story properly. This story cried out for a longer format. This knocked an otherwise great down a peg.

Overall, this was certainly a better issue than the half-baked, nonsensical Lockheed story & New Mutants reunion story from the last issue.

I'd give this story....

Art: 4.5/5
Story: 3.5/5
Overall:4/5

Sorry, Dave. Having read your review, you DON'T seem to be an open reader. Sorry. Do you want to be physically pained by a book? Re-read Marville and its pointless, rambling story of evolution. That was utter trash. This isn't.

You can wrap a fanboy in $10 words, but he's still a fanboy. This review is much more harsh than it should be. You can't just look from the POV of a total X-fan. You also have to look at the POV of an average reader. I don't think that you did that.

Soundwave
Apr 22, 2003, 01:33 pm
I thought it was one of the best X-Men Unlimited issues in a while. Art wise and story wise.

Econ
Apr 22, 2003, 02:01 pm
I agree whole-heartedly with Dave's grade, but before explaining why, let me say something quickly about Cookepuss' critique of the review.

First, all reviews are subjective- we know this- and the real purpose is to stimulate thought and discussion about the issue. Just because you disagree with a review doesn't make it a bad review. It is only a bad review if the reviewer's judgment isn't backed up with a cogent argument. Dave's was. You can disagree with the argument, but at least acknowledge that he didn't come out and say, "I thought the story was boring and the art so-so. The end."

Second, just because someone doesn't like a particular story which differs from the typical style or format of a book doesn't mean he's not an "open" reader. Different readers will respond differently to the same story and the same art- this site should teach us nothing if not that. Dave's dislike for the issue doesn't mean he didn't consider the point of view of the average reader, either. Plenty of average readers and X-fans were disappointed by the issue, I'm sure. I'm one of them.

I have to agree that the whole issue had a bad after-school special vibe going for it. I don't know exactly who the idea for the issue came from, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out it was Jemas. After "411", which seemed to be published mainly so he could vent his frustration with the Bush administrations war plans, an animal rights issue might have seemed to be a another "responsible" use of editorial privelege.

Don't get me wrong, an issue or storyarc where animal abuse played a role could be quite interesting, considering Sammy and Hank's appearances. But a single issue in which there is almost nothing else to the story doesn't make for interesting or thought-provoking reading- it makes for a sermon. And this was my primary problem with the book. Except for a small amount of character development for Cain, there was nothing except the animal abuse taking place.

Like Dave I was also bothered by Sammy's regression. Just how old is he supposed to be?

The inconsistencies in the characters powers was problematic, too. First, Jean's ability to read the minds of the dead is difficult to buy into, for all of the reason's given in the review. Twice while reading this issue I actually uttered the phrase "Oh, give me a break!" The first was when Jean said she could still make out some of it's memories, despite it being dead. The second was almost immediately after the first when she started "channeling" the dog's thoughts. Now, I don't want to offend any dog lovers, but domestic animals simply can not think in the manner attributed to them here. These weren't emotions or instincts, they were thoughts!

I'll admit the scene was somewhat powerful. It would have been much more powerful if it had been a dying (not dead) human (not dog) who's thoughts were coming out of Jean's mouth. I was similarly disappointed by Jean's invasion of Cain and the children's minds (a huge violation- especially considering that Cain did nothing except disagree with Jean and Sammy over the severity of the act) despite the fact that Cain was wearing his helmet. Maybe you can attribute these to Jean's rise in power. But if this were the case, I would think some of the other X-Men would express a bit of concern over Jean manifesting this power. However, not a single person seemed at all surprised that Jean could talk to dead dogs or pierce Juggy's helmet. Hmmm....

The inconsistancies and the myopic scope of the story led to, in my opinion, the worst single issue (story-wise) of an X-book in some time.

On the art, I have to disagree with Dave. Though the proportioning of the characters was inconsistent, I enjoyed the art, particularly the final page. (I thought I was the only one who noticed a resemblance to Howard the Duck. For me it was the panel where Sammy is storming off towards the reader. It didn't bother me though.) I always find it difficult to critique art, so I'll just leave it at this: clean lines, expressive faces, some problems with proportions. My review:

Story: 0.5/5
Art: 3.0/50
Overall: 1.0/5.0

darkelf63
Apr 22, 2003, 02:39 pm
Originally posted by Econ
were disappointed by the issue, I'm sure. I'm one of them.

I have to agree that the whole issue had a bad after-school special vibe going for it. I don't know exactly who the idea for the issue came from, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out it was Jemas. After &quot;411&quot;, which seemed to be published mainly so he could vent his frustration with the Bush administrations war plans, an animal rights issue might have seemed to be a another &quot;responsible&quot; use of editorial privelege.

Don't get me wrong, an issue or storyarc where animal abuse played a role could be quite interesting, considering Sammy and Hank's appearances. But a single issue in which there is almost nothing else to the story doesn't make for interesting or thought-provoking reading- it makes for a sermon. And this was my primary problem with the book. Except for a small amount of character development for Cain, there was nothing except the animal abuse taking place.

Like Dave I was also bothered by Sammy's regression. Just how old is he supposed to be?

The inconsistencies in the characters powers was problematic, too. First, Jean's ability to read the minds of the dead is difficult to buy into, for all of the reason's given in the review. Twice while reading this issue I actually uttered the phrase &quot;Oh, give me a break!&quot; The first was when Jean said she could still make out some of it's memories, despite it being dead. The second was almost immediately after the first when she started &quot;channeling&quot; the dog's thoughts. Now, I don't want to offend any dog lovers, but domestic animals simply can not think in the manner attributed to them here. These weren't emotions or instincts, they were thoughts!

I'll admit the scene was somewhat powerful. It would have been much more powerful if it had been a dying (not dead) human (not dog) who's thoughts were coming out of Jean's mouth. I was similarly disappointed by Jean's invasion of Cain and the children's minds (a huge violation- especially considering that Cain did nothing except disagree with Jean and Sammy over the severity of the act) despite the fact that Cain was wearing his helmet. Maybe you can attribute these to Jean's rise in power. But if this were the case, I would think some of the other X-Men would express a bit of concern over Jean manifesting this power. However, not a single person seemed at all surprised that Jean could talk to dead dogs or pierce Juggy's helmet. Hmmm....

0

I for one ahd no problem with jean reading the thoughts of the Dog..I'll explain why. Psi energy and psi imprints can be seen by telepaths. Example Danielle Monnstar re-creating the "deaths" of Sinister and Sbrtooth from the psi energies in the air.

Thoughts are electrical and the nervous systems keep firing after your offcially dead.

As for the "thoughts' I thought they were images that Jean as a HUMAn was then putting into words.

It would have been better if it were a dead human? Umm the whole point of the story was that it amde no difference if it were a human or an animal the violence was still palpable..I for one thought it was a truly powerful scene.

As for character development on Cain's part it did a much better job of explaining how Cain came to be wanting to be on the X staff added to Uncanny # 416 Austen has presented a truly interesting characterisation of Juggy.

Now for Jean invading his helmet..well Juggy is not the avatar anymore and here he gets to realise what that means. Jean is now Phoenix and so it's not that much of a stretch for me.

Finally the art. I liekd it for the most part, except ofr he fact that Sammy looked so young, at one point he is the same hieght as the door knob..that's just wrong..Also Charles looks a little different, I dont why but he does. But the art was clean and emotive (The fear on the boys faces when they see Wolvie, Cain crying)

I thought it was a little better than this review states.

Alex Guillen
Apr 22, 2003, 03:55 pm
Well I think Dave was a bit rash in his review since I tought this was really an ok issue and deserved better ratings but that's his opinion and I respect it. 3 X's

The Dialman
Apr 22, 2003, 03:58 pm
I just want to point out one thing. Juggernaut's resistance to telepathy has nothing to do with being an avatar. Black Tom created his helmet to protect him from his one weakness (his head). So he should still have the same blocks as before.

All in all though, I enjoyed the issue.

Airhead
Apr 22, 2003, 04:23 pm
I thought that the story was terrible!
The art was ok!
At least we get to see Jean using the Pheonix!
I think?

Hellion
Apr 22, 2003, 04:35 pm
I didn't enjoy this issue, but for different reasons. I stopped reading after Jean got inside the dog's mind. I can't handle reading abuse to animals or kids. It was just too hard to read after that.

UMichWolverine
Apr 22, 2003, 04:39 pm
I really enjoyed this issue but I won't say anything about Dave's review, different strokes for different folks. Case in point, I did not like the art on the New Mutants story from last issue but many other people raved about it.

As for the story, Juggernaut is getting characterization never before seen with him. No more "I hate my brother, I need money, lets rob a bank and beat the crap out of some of my brothers students." He is truly becoming a multi-dimensional character.

I think another interesting facet being overlooked is Wolverine in this issue. He seems to have snapped just a bit when he goes to find the boys. I think this just shows once more how Wolverine very much has an animal side to him, just as much if not more so than Sammy, and the abuse of animals seems to affect him deeply.

Jean has the Phoenix force inside. The Phoenix force has no limits, including some helmet :rolleyes: Black Tom designed.

My only beef is how Sammy was portrayed age wise. He looks to be no more than 10 in this issue while he started out as 13-14 range. Dave mentioned that he appeared to be closer to Carter's age, so I ask, just how old is Carter supposed to be? His dialouge seems all over the map lately in terms of maturity level. (If that question is too much off topic, ignore it)

That problem aside, I enjoyed this issue.

Econ
Apr 22, 2003, 05:33 pm
Originally posted by UMichWolverine
My only beef is how Sammy was portrayed age wise. He looks to be no more than 10 in this issue while he started out as 13-14 range. Dave mentioned that he appeared to be closer to Carter's age, so I ask, just how old is Carter supposed to be? His dialouge seems all over the map lately in terms of maturity level. (If that question is too much off topic, ignore it)


I'd been wondering the same thing. I though Sammy was 13-14, as well. I thought carter was 9-10, but it has been tough to tell. That's mostly just going by appearance. That makes him pretty young to be coming into to his powers, though.

Douglas Cuckler
Apr 22, 2003, 05:36 pm
I really enjoyed this issue. It IMO was alot better than 41 & 43. I do think it was a strict review, but I always preffered opinionless summaries to reviews . Oh well......

manikz
Apr 22, 2003, 05:38 pm
Originally posted by UMichWolverine


Jean has the Phoenix force inside. The Phoenix force has no limits, including some helmet :rolleyes: Black Tom designed.

That problem aside, I enjoyed this issue.

but fantomexes little thought proof plates stopped jean did they not? if thats the case then why shouldn't the helmet?

Chronotrigger
Apr 22, 2003, 05:59 pm
Originally posted by manikz


but fantomexes little thought proof plates stopped jean did they not? if thats the case then why shouldn't the helmet?

Different designer perhaps? :D But really Jean didn't really try harder on Phantomex other than a surface scan.

And folks, Jean piercing through Juggernaut's helmet is nothing new. She's done this in the 60's as Marvel Girl with a psi-blast that made Juggernaut feel like it came from Xavier himself. This issue remains consitent and that complaint is null and void.
:)

gambitX
Apr 22, 2003, 06:13 pm
I LOVED this issue/... Loved the story... loved the art... love the relationship between Juggernaut and Sammy...

I dont agree AT ALL here.

and regarding Phoenix, she can do wahtever she wants now... plus Juggernau doesnt have Cytorak anymore.

and regarding Fantomex... he is just a pathetic character (IMHO) with a pathetic design... the fact that Jean didnt try harder is a different issue.

UMichWolverine
Apr 22, 2003, 06:14 pm
Originally posted by Econ


I'd been wondering the same thing. I though Sammy was 13-14, as well. I thought carter was 9-10, but it has been tough to tell. That's mostly just going by appearance. That makes him pretty young to be coming into to his powers, though.

Yeah but I have the feeling there are big plans for Carter. I think Marvel means for his powers to be coming on at such a young age. What we know about him so far is that he managed to pull Alex back into this reality by himself for the most part and Xavier seems pretty shaken about who his father is. I'd be willing to bet Carter will be slightly less powerful than Franklin Richards, which IMO is pretty damn powerful.

iceman06
Apr 22, 2003, 06:43 pm
I won't comment on the story since I didn't read the comic. I did check out the art though. I think the artist was actually great except for one problem...the same problem everyone else is having. I apologize for the following, but I'm a numbers guy.

Chuck said that Sammy is 12 and that Carter is 7. Average height for a 12 year old is about 5'0 which should be around the chin on Kurt and Bobby who are both around 5'8 or 5'9. Doorknobs are 3'0 from the ground, but that's how tall Sammy was in this comic. Even if Sammy is really short for his age, he shouldn't be 3'0 tall. He'd still be over 4'0 even if he was on course to be as short as Logan. At 7 years old, Carter should be 3'6 at the very shortest and 4'0 if he's average height. That's chest high on Kurt or Bobby.

Again, the art looked great, but I hope the artist gets familiar with how to draw kids at various ages.

Merlin
Apr 22, 2003, 07:26 pm
great review dave all your ponits were correct
none of the classic X rules applied and as for the art Sammy looked like he was 5 so but in 410 he seemed 10 or 12 and he acted like he was 10 or 12.
And Carters hair colour was all wrong he is suppoed to have brown hair not blond.
And what Jean did to those kids, I understand that those kids were f%$*@d up in the head and quite deranged for doing HORIBLE things to poor defenseless animals
but what Jean did was evil and wrong
maybe if Chuck is forshadowing how the pheonix is affecting Jean, I can then understand what Jean did but other than that, what she did was wrong on so many levels, she actually tortured people and kids at that fact (yes they had to learn a lesson but not like that)
while there bodies were not harmed there minds expereinced all of the torture like it occured and one after the other.
can a human mind of those kids actually handle that without completly loosing it.
Thats my 2 cents about the issue.

basher
Apr 22, 2003, 09:51 pm
I thought that the issue was excellent! It helped me understand more of the x-men universe by reading the issue, and it also had good moral meanings. It greatly helped the developement of jugs. As far as jean goes, she is the phoenix, which equals godlike powers. Do you think black tom can compete with godlike powers? As far as fantomex's mask, jean was attracted to fantomex, to the point where she let him escape. She probably felt guilty for being attracted to him, which stopped her from further probing his mind. Anyways i liked the art, liked the story, and the concept was good. I expected this issue to really suck, but it surprised me to the point of changing my mind!

Patrick Star
Apr 22, 2003, 11:26 pm
the story wasnt that bad and the art was totally awesome...sammy's age was kinda off but otherwise the story deserved more than a 1/2.

Zachary J. Morrison
Apr 23, 2003, 01:24 am
Great review, Dave. And I agree. This issue really didn't have what it normally has to offer. The only thing that pretty much interested me was when Jean used her powers to show the kids and Cain some pain that they could have if they were to keep doing it. And my favorite part was when Wolverine had his claws out and scaring the kids and then gets picked up by Jug and swurms while in Jug's hands. Otherwise, this book was between Below Average and Terrible.

thewrite1
Apr 23, 2003, 08:59 pm
I'd been wondering the same thing. I though Sammy was 13-14, as well. I thought carter was 9-10, but it has been tough to tell. That's mostly just going by appearance. That makes him pretty young to be coming into to his powers, though.

I thought Sammy was 13 and Carter 10. As for Carter's powers, it has been suggested that his father is perhaps a mutant which would increase the likelihood of Carter having been born with powers, but no hard facts are known yet about Carter's father.

Kizmet
Apr 23, 2003, 10:55 pm
I also had a problem with the inconsistancy in Sammy's age, and feel like have Jean invade Juggernaut's mind through his helmet was a pointless complication to the story. Cain spends quite a lot of time in Uncanny without the helmet on, considering the mission I wouldn't have been bothered if he hadn't been wearing it, because as far as I can see the only thing the helmet added to the story was us arguing about wether or not it's a consistency issue.

The story itself irritated me primarily because it implied that there was no line between the dead fish at the beginning and the torture of the dog and squirrel later on.

I'm a farm kid, I grew up with both the strict understanding that it was horrifically wrong to neglect or mistreat any animal that a person had control of, cruelty to any living thing is something I see as wrong. But I'm not a vegitarian, I raised animals for meat and have helped butcher them.

darkelf63
Apr 24, 2003, 03:26 am
Originally posted by Kizmet
I'm a farm kid, I grew up with both the strict understanding that it was horrifically wrong to neglect or mistreat any animal that a person had control of, cruelty to any living thing is something I see as wrong. But I'm not a vegitarian, I raised animals for meat and have helped butcher them.

Well in almost every case history of Psycopathic killers they speak of torturing and killing animals when young and human beings are gradually worked up to.

I believe that this was in keeping with the idea of how inhumane and deranged the boys were becoming....

Merlin..could Children handle it? Well Emma slammed the pain having her knose broken times one hundred through the U-men and they did not die... jean did not make them experince death (which she could ahve done) rather she let them see and feel the pain she they ahd inflicted

What jean did was might have been a little out of line..but I think it helped us understand how Cain came to understand what he had done...

crozack
May 3, 2003, 02:54 am
I think you gave this issue a very good rating, Dave. People think that because it's a real world issue that the story can shirk continuity and not focus on keeping the characters true. That is complete and utter crap. I didn't enjoy this issue very much at all. I'm sorry.