X-MEN: RONIN #4 REVIEW

[Linsey Duncan]

<a href="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/covers/xmronin4.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/covers/xmronin4t.jpg" align=left alt="X-Men: Ronin #4"></a>Reviewer: Linsey Duncan, riftedwick@hotmail.com
Quick Rating: Below Average
Story Title: Kakuage (Promotion)

This issue just can't answer for all the build up.

Written by: J.Torres
Cover by: Tommy Ohtsuka and Guru eFX
Art by: Makato Nakatsuka (with Hiromi Nakatsuka)
Colors by: Guru eFX
Letters by: Dave Sharpe
Assistant Editor: Stephanie Moore
Editor: C.B. Cebulski
Editor In Chief: Joe Quesada
President: Bill Jemas

I've lost all point of reference again. Thirty-two pages of nothing but action and I'm not quite sure what I'm supposed to think. The X-Men win spectacularly with a minimum of angst. The only real problem is that there's bound to be more cops filing into what's left of the mansion, so the X-Men will just have to go somewhere else.

In the meantime, why worry? They're essentially invincible.

I'm sorry to say that the entire issue came as an intense disappointment for me. The battles were largely one sided and I've had no cause whatsoever to side with the X-Men in previous issues and this one certainly didn't provide any. The difference is that in issues two and three, there were some terrific moments and there was at least some apprehension, some sense of something big and terrible to come. Well, here it is, and I'm sorry if it seemed more than a little anti-climatic.

All the X-Men lost was a house and Jean blew that up. Storm was blasted, but recovered within a few pages. And that's about it.

I admit that I've been a little frustrated with the constant inability of the X-Men to look at themselves and see why they're so "hated and abused" from the beginning, but the hypocracy of this particular issue drove me up the wall. The X-Men kill far more police than Iceman-Pyro-Avalanche (and let's not forget that Jean kills Iceman-Pyro-Avalanche, too) and I suppose you could justify them by saying at least their killings were done in hot blood, but, honestly. I even have a hard time believing the self-defense ploy because the X-Men have so easy of a time dispatching their enemies once they really feel like it -- with no even half hearted attempts to allow for survivors.

Even Scott's brief shock over finding the bodies of Iceman-Pyro-Avalanche is completely overshadowed by the fact that all is forgotten once the murderer turns out to be Jean.

I realize that mini-series don't have an intense amount of room to work with, but couldn't things have been a little less one sided? Could, possibly, less panel room have been used for dramatic poses and more for a little self-reflection? Could the X-Men occasionally even seem to care about how much damage they're causing?

The real blow for me was when Forge was nuked along with all the other Sentinel guys and, if Storm even blinked . . . I certainly missed it. Yes, we get a nice shot of his Sentinel's head in the last panel, and perhaps it has symbolic significance, but I hate to read entire plotlines into one shot. Understatement is good, but non-existence of any feeling is not. The X-Men come off as nothing nicer than callous and perhaps more along the lines of malicious, while the police (who I was wholeheartedly rooting for by the end) are picked off as if they deserved to be. They're doing their job. I don't even know what the X-Men are doing at the point. And, I'm sorry to say, I don't care very much any more.

The art, besides the fairly spectacular Pheonix moments, was a little hard to follow and isn't quite on the incredible par of the last two issues.

ART:
http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/reviews/ronfull.jpghttp://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/reviews/ronfull.jpghttp://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/reviews/ronfull.jpghttp://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/reviews/ronnone.jpghttp://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/reviews/ronnone.jpg

STORY:
http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/reviews/ronfull.jpghttp://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/reviews/ronhalf.jpghttp://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/reviews/ronnone.jpghttp://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/reviews/ronnone.jpghttp://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/reviews/ronnone.jpg

OVERALL:
http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/reviews/ronfull.jpghttp://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/reviews/ronfull.jpghttp://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/reviews/ronnone.jpghttp://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/reviews/ronnone.jpghttp://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/reviews/ronnone.jpg


Buy this issue online now from X-World Comics and save! (http://x-worldcomics.com/yourvirtualstore/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=539&cat=X%2DMEN+RONIN)

[NicholasRogue]

I'm glad I didn't pick this mini series up, that's a big problem with me and magna, too much violence/fighting, not enough plot

[DiamondPaladinX]

HOLD IT SPRITE. I, self-proclaimed Guardian of Anime and Manga, must correct ye in your comment. Ronin had good intention, yet they didn't show the intriquty of Japanese manga. The art for one, though I'm still rooting for a traditional black-and-white Marvel-manga, doesn't give the feel of it, the atmosphere that animation is so well at doing.

And the plot is a flaw as well. This seems familar, slightly, to the probelm Vash faces in the anime Trigun. He swears to never kill, yet his presence ends up in people dieing. Same in a way with these "Manga" X-Men, swearing to keep honor and to keep good term with normal humans. At least Trigun tries his best, these X-Men completely...and brutally...forgot about the consequences.

That's another strength in anime, the utter effect of consequences, the every action of a person making a difference in the whole mess of things. In a true manga, Storm would probably strongly argue, maybe even fight, Jean. Cyclops would surely had repremanded(sp?) Jean about her control of power and her unwilling to prevent herself.

Frankly, with issue #4, they just made a comic, nothing more, nothing less. Frankly, it's low to the meaning of manga to put this comic under it. Though it's alright, it shouldn't try this game. Like the X-Men in this, they swear to be like manga, but their actions do the complete opposite.

So don't be mislead by this issue. Best look towards Tsunami, which has so far produced a very well-done wave.

[lightwards]

Apparently the editors have been insisting on changes from the original concept. Who knows what it could have been?

[Black mamba]

Originally posted by Spriteguy16
I'm glad I didn't pick this mini series up, that's a big problem with me and magna, too much violence/fighting, not enough plot

please,luv don't confuse manga with this shameful isssue trust me there are alot of good manga movies out there with good action and plot this miniseries isn't manga. also when is psylocke going to appear?and will we be treated to other x-men characters mangafied like i don't know......BEAST!!!!!:D

[J. Torres]

Originally posted by Linsey Duncan
The real blow for me was when Forge was nuked along with all the other Sentinel guys and, if Storm even blinked . . . I certainly missed it. Yes, we get a nice shot of his Sentinel's head in the last panel, and perhaps it has symbolic significance, but I hate to read entire plotlines into one shot. Understatement is good, but non-existence of any feeling is not. The X-Men come off as nothing nicer than callous and perhaps more along the lines of malicious, while the police (who I was wholeheartedly rooting for by the end) are picked off as if they deserved to be. They're doing their job. I don't even know what the X-Men are doing at the point. And, I'm sorry to say, I don't care very much any more.
[/B]

No need to apologize, but here's something to think about: The fact that Forge and Doug are in the police force tells us that the Sentinels can't exactly be your standard "bad guys." And the fact that the X-Men here are violent and self-centered, not to mention called "ronin" indicates they aren't exactly the "good guys" either. Your confusion and frustration over the characterization tells me at least some of the intended affect is being conveyed :)

Incidentally, are you sure Storm knew that was Forge?

Thanks for another well-written, nicely thought out review.


Originally posted by Spriteguy16
I'm glad I didn't pick this mini series up, that's a big problem with me and magna, too much violence/fighting, not enough plot

This is a gross generalization of manga :nonono: I can provide you with dozens and dozens of manga titles that have no violence or even fighting involved. And even more with plenty of plot.


Originally posted by DiamondPaladinX
HOLD IT SPRITE. I, self-proclaimed Guardian of Anime and Manga, must correct ye in your comment. Ronin had good intention, yet they didn't show the intriquty of Japanese manga. The art for one, though I'm still rooting for a traditional black-and-white Marvel-manga, doesn't give the feel of it, the atmosphere that animation is so well at doing.


I'm sorry but I "must correct ye in your comment" as well ;) You're also making some generalizations about manga. Saying that "manga" (merely the Japanese word for "comic") is one thing or the other is like saying ALL comics produced in the US are one thing or the other, which we all know is not the case. For every example you can give of manga being one creative approach or sensibility, I can show you examples of the opposite. As a fan of manga/anime myself, I appreciate your "defense" and promotion of it on the boards, but you make it sound like there is only one type in the medium and that it's all good, which we also know is not the case :D


Originally posted by lightwards
Apparently the editors have been insisting on changes from the original concept. Who knows what it could have been?

Yes, who knows? But that's all I'm saying :cool:

Sorry if the issue wasn't to everyone's liking, but one thing I'd like to remind folks is that it's called X-Men: Ronin. So, these are not the "Uncanny" or even the "Xtreme" X-Men. "Ronin" means "masterless", "wayward" or even "rogue" samurai. They were not nice people, historically speaking. And don't let cliches of "honor" and "code" fool you, often the world in which they lived was violent and brutal. For excellent comic book examples of this, I highly recommend Takehiko Innoue's "Vagabond" and Kazuo Koike's "Lone Wolf and Cub."

And Paladin writes above that Storm or Jean or Cyclops should have reacted a certain way to events in the story. Fair enough. But which Storm? The one from XXM? The one from the movie? And which Jean? From Evolution? From Mutant X? I have no problem if you didn't like the book, even if it's based on comparisons of other characterizations or expectations of what you wanted from the story, but do you see my point?

Thank you for your attention.

J.

[Black mamba]

u didn't answer my question about when psylocke or if beast imght appear.

[Linsey Duncan]

Originally posted by J. Torres


No need to apologize, but here's something to think about: The fact that Forge and Doug are in the police force tells us that the Sentinels can't exactly be your standard &quot;bad guys.&quot; And the fact that the X-Men here are violent and self-centered, not to mention called &quot;ronin&quot; indicates they aren't exactly the &quot;good guys&quot; either. Your confusion and frustration over the characterization tells me at least some of the intended affect is being conveyed :)

Incidentally, are you sure Storm knew that was Forge?

Thanks for another well-written, nicely thought out review.



J.Torres, I just knew as soon as I posted this review that you were going to intelligently refute my frustration. I'm going to say right out that I wish you had more time with the series, because if all this isn't resolved somewhat in the next issue, I'm going to tear my hair out!

I suppose I'm used to nicer ronin! I suppose I'm straightforward enough that I want someone to come out and say "The X-Men are so not cool." Only better than that. Or I do really like to have a character I'm fond of to follow through on, which, in this case, was sadly Forge. Or I'm disappointed that this was all nihilistic action and, although I supposed that you had a very good idea of what you were doing, I had to wait until the next issue to have any resolve.

The problem is, again, that I'm having a hard time caring about these characters! I hate to say that -- and I realize that they're supposed to be this way, but because so much characterization is crowded into so little time, I don't feel I really know them, self centered as they are. And I can honestly like self-centered, violent characters -- not to mention I wasn't hating our X-Men previous to this point. This issue just went by so fast, with little more than very typical battle sequences, that I couldn't augment my general disgust with these characters with the knowledge that the entire issue was kinda self aware that these are some jerky X-Men. But, hey, if we get something of the sort next issue, I can relax. And I'm positive it'll be awesome. This one just didn't do it for me.

Looking forward to it!

[lightwards]

I'll be back for #5, 'cause I'm dying to see how all of this works out! These characters that we know so well in a different universe (and take for granted, to some extent), are standing on the edge of evil, and I want to know if they fall.

[J. Torres]

Originally posted by AirDent554
u didn't answer my question about when psylocke or if beast imght appear.

Well, seeing how it's a five-part miniseries and there's one issue to go... :)


Originally posted by Linsey Duncan
J.Torres, I just knew as soon as I posted this review that you were going to intelligently refute my frustration. I'm going to say right out that I wish you had more time with the series, because if all this isn't resolved somewhat in the next issue, I'm going to tear my hair out!


Hoo-boy. Do you own any hats? ;) I also wish I had more time with these characters and this universe. But Marvel just doesn't seem to know what to do with the Mangaverse right now. Originally, I was asked to write a four-part story, which I did and I gave it a definite beginning middle and end. Then we were given a fifth issue to work with and were asked to leave things "open-ended" to allow for the possibility of more stories, to set up a continuing storyline.

Then, along the way, we were put on a biweekly schedule without much notice at all. So, when my scripts were edited I didn't find out about any changes until close to press time. Given this schedule there wasn't time to revise subsequent scripts to make sure they jived with changes made by editorial. And some of these changes involved omitting dialogue that, I feel at least, would have answered some of your questions about motivation and characterization. Meanwhile, some stuff that was added, in my opinion again, went against the mood and themes of the story. If we had more time, or were given more notice, maybe we could have made it all work in the end. But alas...

Anyway, given the opportunity to do more with this, I've already said that the first thing I'd like to do is tie up loose ends from X-Men: Equinox (reveal what happened to Rogue and Dani). Then I'd follow through on stuff I've set up in Ronin (which you'll see in the last issue). Marvel seems undecided on the future of the Mangaverse right now, though. But we've been told everything from "it's over, this is it" to "the Managaverse trades keep selling so you never know." Ronin is doing well in sales so maybe that will help them make up their minds :LOL:


Originally posted by lightwards
I'll be back for #5, 'cause I'm dying to see how all of this works out! These characters that we know so well in a different universe (and take for granted, to some extent), are standing on the edge of evil, and I want to know if they fall.

Thank you for your support :D


J.

[Joey Meyers]

Weird, i didn't even occur to me until reading this thread that Doug, Forge's teammate (and it seem the entire Sentinel Mecha team, Forgeand Doug included is doa now,although if they aen't we'll find out next issue) might have been a mangavese Doug Ramse.

Anyway, I am looking forward to the conclusion, and who knows what (or who) else we might be seeing.

[darkelf63]

I was interested that Doug was Doug Ramsey..but I was wondering about the others..was the girl with the afro puff supposed to be Dr reyes?

Or were they just random mutants Mr Torres?

[J. Torres]

Originally posted by darkelf63
I was interested that Doug was Doug Ramsey..but I was wondering about the others..was the girl with the afro puff supposed to be Dr reyes?

Or were they just random mutants Mr Torres?

To be honest, I'm not sure. I gave Makoto a list of mutants that I wanted in cameos, in the background, but he also had a list of his own. Don't know his whole list, but I do know he's a big Jubilee fan. As for Celia Reyes, I didn't request her but Makoto might have put her in himself as Afro Puff Girl. I, however, have other plans for Dr. Reyes should we get the chance to do more with these characters and this universe... ;)

J.

[Padan Fain]

I, for one, really liked this issue. I'll be honest and say the last issue seemed, to me, to be a bit lacking (the characterization of Toad was VERY interesting, though), but I found this issue to be both interesting and just damn cool. Only complaint would be to have more of the Hellfire Club plotline progressed, but just an action-packed issue was nice enough!

One question...I might be crazy, but was the squad leader instructing Forge and his fellow Sentinel pilots (AWESOME Sentinel mechas, by the by) supposed to be Magneto? Just the connection to giant metal robots and the long white hair gave me a moment of pause.

Anywho, I really hope that let you do some more with this, Mr. Torres, because I can see SOOOOO very much potential for your already well-established plotlines.