UNCANNY X-MEN #424 REVIEW

[Brian Wilkinson]

<a href="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/covers/uxmen424.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/covers/uxmen424t.jpg" align=left alt="Uncanny X-Men #424"></a>Reviewer: Brian E. Wilkinson, bewilkinson@xfan.cjb.net
Quick Rating: Good
Story Title: Holy War, part 2

Nightcrawler and the X-Men go head-to-head against the Church of Humanity!

Written by: Chuck Austen
Cover by: Philip Tan
Pencilled by: Ron Garney
Inked by: Mark Morales
Colors by: JD Smith
Letters by: Chris Eliopoulos
Associate Editor: Mike Raicht
Editor: Mike Marts
Editor In Chief: Joe Quesada
President: Bill Jemas

There are so many good things to talk about in Uncanny X-Men these days. While some of you were big fans of Joe Casey, I found his version of the X-Men a little flat, unexciting, and sometimes just bizarre. Though Casey introduced several new and interesting elements into the series, the combination of lacklustre writing and new artists each month drove me over the edge.

Now, however, Chuck Austen is here and the X-Men are finally looking like the heroes of old. Sure, the new tweaks that Grant Morrison, Chris Claremont, and Joe Casey introduced still come into play, but these characters seem more at ease with themselves, the world around them, and more natural in the kinds of adventures they find.

This month sees Nightcrawler and the X-Men go up against the Church of Humanity, for what seems like the final time. Austen has either used the formula Casey started out with using the characters, or has thought up a brand new use himself, but either way the couple years worth of subplots are brought to a head, in a surprisingly neat and satisfying manner. Sure, a few aspects, such as Kurt being tapped to be their false Pope for the world, were a little bit much, but otherwise the story plot and reasoning made logical sense.

That's something you don't see every day. Also, as seems to be the trend with New X-Men these days, a subplot is actually wrapped up in a comic book.

I really enjoy the fact that while Austen concentrates his stories on the characters he has creative control over, that he uses the whole X-Mansion and it's range of characters, even if only for a page or two. Cyclops has been more effective here than in his own book, and Austen makes the relationships between team members a priority rather than an afterthought.

The good parts of this book center around Kurt, and his struggle to find God. The scene with Father Whitney, in particular, was heart wrenching and one of the most memorable in the title to date.

Other notable parts come in the interplay between characters like Wolverine and Havok, or in how Austen very quietly shows the dark side of Polaris during a firefight.

What makes this storyline the most effective, was the revelations about the Supreme Pontiff, the nature of the Church of Humanity, and that a satisfying end has been brought to the story. Who knows if they're truly done for (and what great villain ever is) but at least for the moment I'm able to put all of that behind me and open myself up for whatever new adventures Austen has planned.

Unfortunately, as with any good issue, there is also some bad. I was one of many thrilled to see Havok come back, but this is not the Havok I remember. He's a smartass, interrupts all the time, sarcastic, dark, and seems to think he's the leader of Kurt's team. Who knows, he might be, but you'd think they'd mention something about it. I may have missed that page.

Also, his costume, though brilliant looking on the cover for next issue, Uncanny X-Men #425, looks ridiculous under Ron Garney's pencils. The rest of the team have smart, logical outfits (except for Polaris' who raided a b-movie set's wardrobe), yet here is Havok with this great big clunky uniform. Just doesn't seem to fit very well. It looks mighty cool when done right, but not in the revised uniform look the X-Men are sporting these days.

Wolverine also had one or two odd moments, but the one that really sticks out is when he tries to avenge the death of Angelo Espinoza, aka Skin who passed away last issue. Though Wolverine has MET Angelo a few times, the two were never exactly friends, and the 'avenging' is a little out of place. Of course, Skin's death felt a bit wasted in my opinion as I always felt he had a lot of potential, an amazing personality, and I figured his comeback was inevitable. Instead, he dies off panel, with two or three panels commenting on his passing. Not exactly a heroes burial.

There were also one or two points during the story that reminded me of the X-Men 2 movie. The mutant controlling the minds of the X-Men, for one, and the way the X-Men take out the normal human trying to destroy them all. Austen is careful to make sure that these aren't just typical comic book moments with thoughtful and careful dialogue, but it just felt a little too close to familiar material. Of course, given that Austen writes months in advance, I know he didn't copy the movie, it's just an unfortunate coincidence.

Ulimately, I think this would have been a more powerful and interesting story with a different artist. Though I've seen great work from Ron Garney in the past, this issue doesn't feel like an example of it. Rushed pages, sloppy costumes, lacklustre splash pages (like the giant one of Wolverine and Polaris leaping out the jet that took up two pages of comic reading fun), and otherwise boring panels really detract from the reading enjoyment. Oh well, soon we'll have Philip Tan and... another artist.... ;).... that will make this a MUST see AND read title. Don't you hate being teased?

The best part of this months offering, visually, is the stunning cover done by Philip Tan. I'm really looking forward to seeing his interior work next month.

As for this issue, it's a solid ending to a story that has been building for a while, and it's full of Austen's trademark suspense, excitment, and characterization.

Pick it up today!

ART:
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STORY:
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OVERALL:
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Buy this issue online now from X-World Comics and save! (http://x-worldcomics.com/yourvirtualstore/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=51&cat=X%2DSTATIX+%28X%2DFORCE%29)

[Benjamin Ong]

The best part of this months offering, visually, is the stunning cover done by Philip Tan. I'm really looking forward to seeing his interior work next month.

I'm looking forward to next month too! Complete Tan goodness! Cover and interiors!

[Alex Guillen]

I agree, Tan's art should be awsome on the book.:)
As for the issue, I tought the arc was rather good but not exactly was I was expecting although the story about taking down the Catholic Chruch was interesting it still left a sour taste in my mouth especially after actively persecutting mutants throughout the run.
Also no big X-death, only Angelo last issue but not the big X-Man death Chuck promised.
Garney's pencils are usually fantastic but due to the rush and the 2 months of bi weekly issues, his art suffered and the new Havok costume looked weird and it could be easily explained due to the differences in the style of the art between Garney and Tan.
Great review, brian.

[Hellion]

The best part for me was Lorna letting loose. Although I am not a big fan of having her crazy, I am interested in seeing where it goes. I thought it was strange as well that Logan said "This is for Skin", the first thing that popped in my head was he doesn't even know his real name. I think it was just to reinforce that there were casualties last issue. The mind controlling mutant was too much of a coincidence to not have been taken from the movie, down to the wheelchair and tubes in the back of his head. I enjoyed parts of this issue, and can't wait for Philip.

[Joey Meyers]

That "This is for Skin" line might have been better for Jubes, Paige or even Jono, rather than Logan, imho. Issue was quite a headtrip though.

[Joel Phillips]

We didn't even read the same issue, did we?

Sure, a few aspects, such as Kurt being tapped to be their false Pope for the world, were a little bit much, but otherwise the story plot and reasoning made logical sense.

What part of this trainwreck made logical sense? The CoH's entire plan was one of the worst I've ever encountered in a comic book, and boy is that a statement to make. Not only did the whole plan make no sense, but no individual part made sense either. In one issue the CoH went from being a potentially serious ongoing threat to a punchline we X-fans are gonna be sharing for months.

This issue devalues previously good work, by Austen and others. Forget all the Kurt as priest moments that now make no sense, forget all the CoH attacks that no make no sense. How about last issue: Skin's death served NO purpose. I thought it did at the time, part of the service of the story, but no: apparently it was just two guys who got a little ahead of themselves.

The issue was a rush job. Half the story was told in narrative boxes and "oh by the way" style narrative speeches. Half the CoH's plot is revealed by a character whose only reason for existing AT ALL was to pop in, explain everything to us, and then die. Heck, the entire motivation for the Pontiff and her followers is told to us, in narration, ON THE LAST PAGE. It's like "Oh right, I almost forgot to explain WHY this happened. Let's take care of that real quick..." The cardinal sin of writing: all telling, no showing.

I generally like Austen's work, but this is just awful. It's the worst issue of anything I've read this year.

[spinarakboi]

well the last couple of issues were not all that great in my opinion but this one pays off for me. It was an interestin conclusion to the church which makes sense in a little over the top yet satifying way. Rarely in a comic do we get a conclusion or a wrap up like this one. Here it was all laid out...

I just hope from here we see something a little better than what we've seen before... but it was good for what it was.

[ferretnaura]

I have to be honest.. I have the issue, but I haven't read it yet.

UXM was once (3 years ago) on top of my pile of "to read" comics.. now it is near the bottom.

I can't explain it..
*Maybe its the plethora of artists that have come and gone (and the 5 different art styles that they brought with them).
*Maybe its the plethora of writers that have come and gone (more like asked to leave by the fans)
*Maybe its the storylines that make absolutely no sense.
*Maybe its the stories that try to be some super thought out, conscious dripping, super novels, and I am not getting it.
*Maybe its that the characters that I've read off the rack since 1980 just don't act, speak, or even look like the characters I've known. And I don't mean from 1980.. I'm talking just 1999!

So, this issue may be awesome, it may not..... Either way.. I'll get to it sometime in 2-3 weeks. I'ts sad that the only reason I've still bought this title since the Casey arc is that I have been collecting UXM since #129 and don't want to break up the run...

Sad, sad.

[Nick Costanzo]

Well I must disagree with your assessment of this issue. It made so little sense that it made my head hurt.

Bring on the new artist and a clean new story to start on. God knows this book needs it.

Of course in a perfect world Joe Casey would still be here, but unfortunately such a world is not to be...

[PsychoDane]

I thought the issue was alright. I'm just glad it ends this whole COH thing and we can move on to better things. Kurts not a priest anymore, finally! I did enjoy seeing Lorna kick @$$. I want to see more of her dark side :devil:

I also thought the art and coloring were sloppy. What stood out most was Lorna's power signature being yellow rather than what it's supposed to be, Green! and Jean's hair was colored green, I had to go back and reread, it confused me for a sec.

Can't wait for Tan. On to a new story!:excited:

[clancynut]

This issue was obviusly a clean up issue taking care of the plot line that casey left behind it probably wasn't a story that he put his whole heart into just something that he didn't want to leave leave hanging it was ok for what it was I was happy to see the story come to an end

mutant 143 totally came from the movie as the characters name in the movie was Jason 143 or mutant 143 depending on where u look

also did anyone notice there was one panel where jean had green hair

[ozymandias]

This issue in my opinion was just bad fan-fiction.Where is Joe, the franchise was innovative, it was an exploration of modernity, of the trends in our society. Now it is back in spandex to fight lama vilains, with world domination plan explained in the last page.

[Bamfette]

while the resolution was interesting, i felt that it was kinda 'crammed in' and could have used atleast one more issue to properly set it up and resolve it. it was jsut too much to process. i liked the ideas, they were out thee, but i can see it, in a strange way. but it was just rushed, and the art CERTAINLY didn't help matters....

[TurdFerguson]

I do want to start out by saying that I have taken every opprotunity ever to bash CHuck Austen and his run on Uncanny. I currently read Uncanny every month expecting to be extremely disappointed. That being said, this issue seemed to blow me away. I thought this was by far the best issue of Austen's run. It was amazing to see how well the story flowed when the team got out of the mansion, and focused on beating up a bad guy. Granted it was kind of a cookie cutter story, but we were able to see how Austen allowed the characters and interacted that way instead of having a bunch of two shots inside the mansion in pure soap opera format.

[Zachary J. Morrison]

Good review, Brian. This issue was good. I liked what happened, but Lorna scares the HELL out of me. She looks like she's going to turn evil soon with that new costume of hers. Other than that, it looks great.

[spiral48]

I've got to say, I really disliked this issue. I know this is hte minority opinion on this site, but I've felt that most of Chuck's run has been fairly mediocre. In all fairness I thought issue 414 was great, but over all Austin's writing has felt like run of the mill fan-fiction. But this is the first issue of his that I've read that was just flat out bad. A non-sense plot to make Kurt Pope? And that would somehow trigger all of humanity into a mass belief that the rapture had come? Because no one in the marvel Universe has ever seen anything strange or anything that looks like a monster. Ever. Even Austin himself admits the idea is extremely far fetched through the mouthpiece of Havok. In fact that entire scene felt like Austin peeling back the fourth wall and saying "yeah this is insane but I'm the writer so you'll just shut up and take it!"

Furthermore... the theology in this issue was just plain ignorant. Catholic theology does not include the Rapture. In fact, the Rapture is really only a belief held by certain Protestant splinter groups. (Baptists etc...) <i>Side note: there is even almost no scriptural evidence that supports the idea of the rapture, unless you take a few random passages WAY out of context. but that has little to do with this issue endsidenote. </i> But the point is a clearly a catholic themed group of villains is using Conservative Christian style theology. I've studied under a lot of Jesuit priests, and so far all of them subscribe to a much more metaphorical interpretation of scriptures. So the idea that the higher-ups of the church... or even Catholics in general would all of a sudden flip out because the Pope looked like a mutant... stretching past the realm of disbelief. It's just bad grade-school style theology.

And finally... in an area that is purely more my own opinion then a supportable critique, by using Joe Casey's concept, Austin comes off looking amateurish by comparison. The Church of Humanity was a highly satirical concept that deconstructed the sense of Dogma in both religion and comic book mythology. The Supreme Pontif's journey to enlightenment was the archetypal journey that almost all psuedo messianic figures go through... just as Stacey-X's "origin" was the prototypical character journey to becoming an X-man. And just as the Church of Humanity dogmatically clung to the story of the Supreme Pontiff, so too do X-fans cling dogmatically to the typical X-men stories. Anything new, different or contradicting is blasphemy. This was Casey's concept, and he handled it with a deft touch. Austin writes the COH as one-dimensional fanatics. He is unable to use the multi faceted aspects of the concept and in doing so looks like a lesser writer. Kind of like if Tom Clancey tried to write a story with Leopold Bloom, or Ben Afleck and J-lo trying to remake Casablanca.

[Wolverine]

Tan will be an incredible addition to the team

[spare_ribs85]

I thought the issue was dissapointing, #423 set up the arc well, and i was expecting a lot more from this issue...and yeah, i can't see how you can call the make-kurt-pope plot logical by any stretch of the imagination. The art was also sloppy at times. Probably the only part of this issue i liked was the last page, which wrapped the arc up well...no matter how outraguoes it was...

[Duncan]

I actually thought I read a different issue going from the review and some of the reactions. I agree with some people, I too was blown away...

...unfortunately it was not in a good way.

This issue was ridicilious of you ask me, nothing made sense and it felt like Austen's aim for this story, this conclusion, was to make it as mangled and twisted and complicated as possible, not to mention that some story-points, prominent plot-points, just don't make any sense.

[Suzene]

Things I liked about this comic:

- The cover. Curiosity about Tan will get this comic one more month from me.
- Lorna cutting loose. Her taste in men and clothing is highly questionable, but at least one X-flunky seems to have learned to hit back when people are shooting at you.
- The fact that Austen acknowledged the utter asininity of the plot with Wolverine as his mouthpiece.

Things that make me wonder why I'm still shelling out $3 a month for a book that gets me angry more often than not:

-Top of the list: the obvious shades of X2 sprinkled about. Oh, look, suddenly The JeanScott has to make an appearance, taking over two roster slots that I'd much rather see filled by people who are actually on Kurt's team. Don't they have their own book? Then there's the fellow in the wheelchair throwing illusions at everyone...yes, the one with the Hoover attachments at the back of his head. Coincidence? Are you kidding me? Austen wrote the comic-adaptation of X2; he *did* have knowledge of movie-events months in advance and he's using that knowledge for evil. Now, I don't know if he was under orders on how much he should attempt to make the movie and UXM look the same, but it still bugs the heck out of me to see this kind of garbage. I paid my money for X2 already and if I want to see it in comic-book format, I'll go buy the adaptation. Keep it out of my monthlies!

- The art. Ugly as sin. Marvel just doesn't get it...people will complain about the story less when you hit them over the head with really pretty art that helps advance the story. This blocky, low-detail stuff isn't doing a thing to make the comic look better, and it doesn't help that Cyclops and Iceman are starting to look so much like twins that it took me a moment to realize that it *wasn't* Bobby shooting lasers out of his eyes during the first skirmish. And is it just me, or does Kurt look like a really bitter drow elf on every single panel? I don't think his expression actually changes once. Oh, and while I'm on the topic of art...
-re: UXM 423, pages 1, 2, & 3. Mr. Garney, you simply cannot crucify people in such a slip-shod manner! A nail through the hand will not bear the weight of an adult human female, even if most of her body-mass is mammary fat seemingly unaffected by the laws of physics. Gravity will take effect, the nail will rip through the light skin and bone, and your victim will fall to the ground. If you want staying power, drive the spikes in through the *wrists* and then again at the ankles. Tsk! Artists these days; no ambition to research the subject.

- Father Whitney's dying confession. A bit long-winded, but OK, fine. Seeing the light in-between bouts of exposition upon deathbed is a tried-and-true part of the four-color formula, after all, but if Austen was trying to make me at all sorry the old boy died, he has failed miserably. Why? Last words: "I never expected to grow fond of a mutie..." I was affected in about the same way I'd be if a person's last words to me were, "I never expected to like a wetback 'spic so much." Sorry, no sympathy here. I hope his death hurt lots.

- The roster. The only way Northstar's absence is going to be excusable is if we find out he's been shacked up somewhere with the prettiest man in all the world for the last couple of weeks -- or is at least checking out Aurora's disappearance from northern loony-bins (Tieri, I'm making puppy-dog eyes in your direction. Couldn't you just barrow Jean-Paul for an issue or two?). I mean, really, what's the use of shuffling Northstar onto an X-Team in the first place if he's going to get less panel-time than Squid Boy? As I've stated already, I'm not happy with The JeanScott bleeding over into this book. If I cared at all about them, I'd be reading the books with their team in it. Lorna's another interloper, but she's also mentally unstable, which can actually be a plus on this title -- if I have to ask why she's doing something, I don't have to hurt myself trying to use logic, I can just chalk it up the fact that she's crazy. However, The AlexLorna is almost as bad as The JeanScott, IMO. Why is Havok even still here? Shouldn't he be off getting his head together after the coma? When I started buying this book, I signed up for Nightcrawler, Angel, Husk, Iceman, Northstar, Wolverine (because he's everywhere anyway) and, God help me, Stacey X. Those were the characters I assumed I'd be reading about when I decided to start picking up Marvel books again. It's why I picked up this book to start. The musical-chairs with the teams is a big turn-off.

- The endless quoting from the Bible before, after, and during what's supposed to be the climatic fight-scene. It just wasn't done well, though I don't think there's a way to do the screaming of scriptures during a smack-down well. I understand that snappy banter probably wasn't proper for the mood Austen was struggling to set, but there had to be better choices for dramatic dialogue.

- The fact that Austen acknowldeges that the plot is asinine and inflicted it on the loyal readers anyway. The ending was pat, the plot would insult my cat's intelligence, and while I disliked Nightcrawler as a priest, dismantling that aspect of the character in a many that defies belief -- even by comic-book standards! -- makes me think that Chuck can't have a very high opinion of his audience.

Simply, UXM #423 was priced about right for story and artistic quality. I feel that Marvel owes me a substantial refund for #424. One more month, then I'm gone again.

Suzene

[cannonlocke]

Originally posted by Brian E. Wilkinson
Ulimately, I think this would have been a more powerful and interesting story with a different artist. Though I've seen great work from Ron Garney in the past, this issue doesn't feel like an example of it. Rushed pages, sloppy costumes, lacklustre splash pages (like the giant one of Wolverine and Polaris leaping out the jet that took up two pages of comic reading fun), and otherwise boring panels really detract from the reading enjoyment. Oh well, soon we'll have Philip Tan and... another artist.... ;).... that will make this a MUST see AND read title. Don't you hate being teased?


looks like Brian knows something we don't regarding the uncanny's next artist... do i smell a certain eXtreme artist coming onboard? i certainly hope so.

anyway, i'll be getting the issue later. til then...

[UMichWolverine]

I did not like this issue at all.

Wow, that is so awesome that "mutant 143" is in this book...but didn't he die in the movie. Well who cares. There is another similarity between X2 and Uncanny X-men. I am going to rush out and keep buying this book. :rolleyes:

As a Catholic, and one who knows his stuff about his religion, I find some of this Papal ******** ( could be the first time that phrase has ever been written :D ) to be offensive at worst, silly at least. Are we really supposed to believe that if the pope is revealed to be Kurt, that all us silly little Catholics will just about lose it. I'm sorry, but while I know about the whole Anti-christ and rapture thing, your average Catholic does not, nor do they worry about it happening. One other small beef with the Catholic thing, no Catholic in their right mind refers to them as wafers. Host, communion, etc... but never wafers.

Oh, btw, the last couple masses, my "wafers" have tatsed funny. I wonder if I will spontaneously combust now from some chemical added to them. :rolleyes:

Now that I have that taken care of, onto the fight scene. :?

I find it mildly disturbing that Lorna made the most sense and performed the best under pressure.

Does Iceman actually DO anything anymore? He's supposed to be one the most powerful mutants out there and he does nothing.

Yes I noticed the green haired Jean. oops.

After reading this and X-Treme in the same setting, I have come to a determination. When you are fighting a group of religious zealots, you must by law spew bibilical quotes. Uncanny was worse because everyone and their brother was showing off their intimate knowledge of scripture.

One last bitching point.

Why hello Ms. Supreme Pontiff, this story is about to end soon, could you please explain to everyone what the hell is going on and what your Church of Humanity is all about?

Sure.... I want to take over the world, terribly original isn't it? I will do so by assuming Catholics are morons and bring down the fall of their church by preying on their utmost fear " THE RAPTURE!!!" Okay, well we only have a couple pages left in this arc so I should go stand next to this electrical pod thingy. Oops, ow this is burning.

Ok, well glad we have that cleared up. Lets go home. Oh wait, forgot to mention she was a raped nun who went nuts.

Actually I took one very good thing from this story. The very end about the nun being raped by the priest and the result was dead on. People fail to realize how protected priests actually are in terms of Canon Law. That likely would have been the outcome of such an event. Priest rapes nun, nun labeled as seductive whore, nun booted from church. My experience has been that priests in general are decent people, but there are some who completely abuse the system and can get by with a slap on the wrist because of Church Law.

Alright, I think I have finished with my smartass comments and social commentary.

[Douglas Cuckler]

I liked the issue alot, and a greta review, but what was with Lorna's yellow eyes?

The green hair Jean was just an underused seccondary mutation to alter her hair color at will. Don't hate on it.

This is for Skin!

[thebigO]

ok.

i really love the first couple of issues of austins. (after 'hope'), but this was a bad issue.

and it is obviously rushed. as much as i love getting more issues of uncanny but i would rather one a month for better quality.

i love the characters, but there are too many.

it was too x2, and i am sure marvel would have asked for a bit of info on the script, because it has been said that ot was a BIG MISTAKE to not capitlise on the first film. having said that, i can understand it, but i didn't like it, and i see that it is there too get new readers that have seen the movie...

phillip tan will be great.

and JEAN WITH GREEN HAIR!!!!!


one of the things about new marvel that i love is that these mistakes rarely happen as often as they used to.

northstars blinding light that wasnt seen.....i could forgive.

this mistake! no way.
it just proves how bland the art was.
i did like the splash though.
that was the only redeeming quality of the art work. it was rushed. too rushed
all the bible quotes. bloody hell. i really feel that in this case, LESS IS MORE.

[Jackraow21]

I agree about Garney's pencils being awful this issue, but IMO even Jim Lee couldn't have salvaged this (as Joel so aptly described it) "trainwreck." It was just such a jumbled mess, and the fight at the end just made me laugh because it was so silly. Having Nightcrawler and the Supreme Pontiff trade-off bible passages with one another as they fought, and even getting Havok into the act at one point, was utterly ridiculous!

Here's hoping that this issue was just sloppy because Chuck was trying to tie up some of Casey's loose plot threads, and that the next issue will be more thought out. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

[TurdFerguson]

Originally posted by Brian E. Wilkinson
Oh well, soon we'll have Philip Tan and... another artist.... ;).... that will make this a MUST see AND read title. Don't you hate being teased?

Wait, does this mean we are also getting a new writer?

[D4773T]

Originally posted by outlawstaar
Well I must disagree with your assessment of this issue. It made so little sense that it made my head hurt.

Bring on the new artist and a clean new story to start on. God knows this book needs it.

Of course in a perfect world Joe Casey would still be here, but unfortunately such a world is not to be... In a perfect world Joe Casey would not be allowed to touch another super hero comic again.:D

[SmashedPumpkin]

I enjoyed this issue for a number of reasons, but at the same time disliked a few things. Mutant 143 was just a blatant and disgusting reference to the movie. I loved the movie, and I love the comic, but I dunno, can't explain it. Secondly, Iceman. He sucks. Plain and simple. He did maybe, one thing this entire issue. I also want to see more of Havok in action but thats more of a wish than complaint. What I did like was the story. I know alot of you thought it was confusing and just over all crappy, but I rather enjoyed it. Mainly because I'm a christian and stories that have a religous theme I tend to relate to more. And also, being a christian, I absolutely loved that last panel. I usually don't bring my christianity into comic discussions at all, but after the boring melodrama of New X-men, when I read this it just made me feel good that there was someone in the marvel universe that I could relate to. Yet again, I'm babling..

[GuyX]

Hey, wont get this issue until early next week...but i have a feeling from the words already written about it by others my review is not going to be pretty...

Maybe Austen realised how bad the this storyline was and thats why he took a vaction from the boards.

[ursabearX]

Originally posted by ferretnaura
I have to be honest.. I have the issue, but I haven't read it yet.

UXM was once (3 years ago) on top of my pile of &quot;to read&quot; comics.. now it is near the bottom.

I can't explain it..
*Maybe its the plethora of artists that have come and gone (and the 5 different art styles that they brought with them).
*Maybe its the plethora of writers that have come and gone (more like asked to leave by the fans)
*Maybe its the storylines that make absolutely no sense.
*Maybe its the stories that try to be some super thought out, conscious dripping, super novels, and I am not getting it.
*Maybe its that the characters that I've read off the rack since 1980 just don't act, speak, or even look like the characters I've known. And I don't mean from 1980.. I'm talking just 1999!

So, this issue may be awesome, it may not..... Either way.. I'll get to it sometime in 2-3 weeks. I'ts sad that the only reason I've still bought this title since the Casey arc is that I have been collecting UXM since #129 and don't want to break up the run...

Sad, sad.

I with you on all accounts, these are not the xmen that hooked me 20yrs ago.:(

[Patrick James]

I'm sorry, but Chuck is building up his cast to be so enormous that it is impossible to keep up with him. The recent announcement in Wizard that he'll be taking over for Johns on Avengers has me concerned for Earth's Mightiest, who always struggle with cast size.

Archangel, Annie, Juggernaut, Northstar, Husk, Chamber, Jubilee...all of them are regular players for the moment and none of them were in this issue, save Warren for the first page or so.

This is getting ridiculous. I love Chuck's take, but things are getting too bogged down. He's going to have to set some of these X-Men free. The New X-Men members would be a good start.

Poor Skin. What a wasted death...

Arkangel4Psy

[FrodoLives]

Holy Crud! Did i just read that? Turd actually liked an issue of Uncanny. Sorry but it is a bit funny considering most of the others thought it was pretty bad... I'm glad you liked it Turd maybe it'll give you the insentive to keep reading Uncanny.

[Kevin Woodside]

Ugh . . . this issue was so terrible. It blew a hole into the mythology Joe Casey set up. The Supreme Pontiff - a woman? Bah! A decoy, I say! Mutant 143? An import from X2!

But at least Lorna was not as crazy. Well, a little on the 'I want to kill people and that's okay'-side, but not as crazy as previously believed. (I did like Bobby's "Lorna!" shout - maybe those two will hook up . . . I can hope, can't I?)

On top of all this, it was never once established that the Church of Humanity were out to be Catholic. I saw them as religion that just simply held up the belief that all mankind was superior, and supported any sort of reliegious following that felt the same way.

Not once during any previous CoH confrontations was there anyone shouting in Christ's name while they mowed down mutants. They talked about mutant death = human salvation, but no mention of Christ.

And I know that I already complained about this but - the Supreme Pontiff?! A woman!? Come on!

I know I'll get people throwing rocks at me, and that's fine. This is just the I feel. And I mean no offense to Chuck Austen. Indeed, the first half of this story was just awesome.

But I gotta say: there were TWO books dealing with mutants versus religious zealots. Bet you can't guess which one I liked more . . .

Though I am looking forward to next issue. Poor, crazy Lorna. :(

~W~

[Booyah9]

I think Turd's a fair reviewer, and lets be fair: It wasn't a god-awful issue. Then again it wasn't fantastic either, but somewhere between the two, personal preference determining how much closer to one extreme than another. My opinion is that it was simply average, though I liked seeing some action in it.

According to Bamfette and others Austen was rushed as well, which extenuates some of the plot wackyness pointed out by posters who severely disliked the issue. If nothing else this issue has me waiting for the next one to see how a more controlled plot and new artist will steer the book away from this last arc. So, yeah, I'll definetly pick up the next ish, maybe for the wrong reasons but does Marvel care? I think not.

[NicholasRogue]

Bottom line: To me the story was confusing, the art sucked, it copied from X2, and I'm wondering why Austen doesn't just use his own characters instead of guest starring Cyclops and Jean. Havok and Polaris have the worst fashion sense ever. Ron Garney's pencils and the book's coloring is just plain atrocious.

[thewrite1]

Originally posted by Booyah9
According to Bamfette and others Austen was rushed as well, which extenuates some of the plot wackyness pointed out by posters who severely disliked the issue.

That's no excuse. If Austen really writes his scripts months before publication then he has time to tweak his storytelling. If he has no time then he shouldn't write on so many different titles.

I was let down by this issue. There was no insight into Kurt's character. All right, he's religious, and okay he's angry but is that all Kurt is? Even with the narration 'Kurt' provided all he did was spout scripture and not much else.

I particularly appreciate Suzene's and UMichWolverine's views on this issue. The Catholic reviewers provide an interesting insight into the religion.

The Church of Humanity was a vicious army and potential threat in Casey's book. In this issue they all fell down. Why was there no explanation of the Pointiff's powers? Why was Wolverine used again as a punching bag?

Why does Austen use so much narration when it really doesn't add to the story. And why did the dialogue contain so much scripture? It made no sense and made the whole issue a chore to read.

[Chris Wilson]

Originally posted by thew40

And I know that I already complained about this but - the Supreme Pontiff?! A woman!? Come on!

I know I'll get people throwing rocks at me, and that's fine. This is just the I feel. And I mean no offense to Chuck Austen. Indeed, the first half of this story was just awesome.


I think people will refrain from throwing rocks at you if you'd elaborate on why the Pontiff being a woman was a bad idea. Support your arguments, people--it's what they teach you in that building you call(ed) school.

Besides, did you not read the last page of the book? I think it was fairly well explained why the SP was a woman. In fact, for me, the postlude was the best part of this arc. A story aware of it's own absurdity while simultaneously bogged down by sloppy art makes for a very shallow read. I know Austen can do better than this (see current Exiles). I know Garney can do better than this (see the issues previous to the Holy War arc). So what the :bleep: happened here?

Mabus and Bamfette have the inside scoop. I mean, really, what happened here? Please mark this as being due to a technical mistake and not the waning talent of our beloved creators. Am I to understand this was a "rush job?" How so?

Anyway, I've come to expect more from Austen, and I'm hoping he'll deliver in the next arc. And with what I've seen from Tan, I'm sure the art won't get in the way of the story this time.

-Chris

[Booyah9]

Originally posted by thewrite1


That's no excuse. If Austen really writes his scripts months before publication then he has time to tweak his storytelling. If he has no time then he shouldn't write on so many different titles.




Actually, I'm talking about the issue breakdown of the arc into two for a plotline not fully under his control. I'm not saying it was great stuff, my only point is that this arc most likely doesn't represent what Austen is capable of or will put out in future issues.

[Twilight]

I couldnt stand this issue. This story arc was horrible and I hope we never see the Church of Humanity again. It was convoluted --nightcrawler the new Pope?? What? The Pontiff a violated disgruntled nun? Enough with the Catholic beating. I didnt even read over the Bible babble during the battle. The colors were bad. At one point, Jean has green hair. Sloppy ending to a story. I dont blame Nightcrawler for not telling Scott and the rest of the Xteams about the Church of Humanity, because quite frankly I dont want to be reminded of it either. Does this mean Father Kurt wont be presiding over the wedding next issue? because that should be a powderkeg waiting to blow.

[UMichWolverine]

Originally posted by thewrite1



I particularly appreciate Suzene's and UMichWolverine's views on this issue. The Catholic reviewers provide an interesting insight into the religion.



Thanks. Its nice to know I can contribute positively somehow and that someone is reading my posts :D

[clancynut]

maybe this will be new for some of you don't know this its a relatively new idea but marvel is a business they are out to make money by producing comics its what they do now comics aren't as mainstream as everyone here would probably like to think so when there is a comic movie such as x2 that is really popular they are probably going to have tie ins to the movie that may bring new readers on board now yes it does suck a little bit for us long time readers but if marvel doesn't make money by getting new blood into reading comics there will come a point where marvel no longer produces comics for anyone and I think everyone will agree that that would suck so chin up next month we'll be back to comicy goodness cyclops and phoenix will go home to their book and the uncanny x team that we've seen in previous issues will be back but until then enjoy a completly self contained story that the casual new reader could have read without any other background info, realizing that its for the good of the company

[Cbenioff]

I like Austen's Uncanny run for the most part. For the past few months I have enjoyed Uncanny more than Xtreme and New... possibly because not much was going on and we got a lot of "hanging out at the mansion" character stuff. I also like most of the characters he is using.

Now this story wasn't as good as the issues before it but it wasn't terrible... My problem with it stems from a scene near the beginning and also the plot of other current marvel books. I will now sum up this problem:

TOO MANY WRITERS ARE LETTING THEIR POLITICAL VIEWS SHOW THROUGH IN THEIR COMICS AND IT NEEDS TO STOP!

The comment from Nightcrawler about how the religious right is hypocritical to be Pro-Life and Pro-War was uncalled for whether you agree or not. Lets forget that this is a totally falacious arguement and that about 90% of pro-war types are pro-choice... and that abortion has nothing to do with more important issues like War and foreign policy... Even still I don't want a writer insinuating that Pro-Life or Pro-War people might be wrong. You might be wrong Chuck! I don't want people bashing Anti-War or Pro-Choicers either.... I don't want any commentary on any of it!Leave politics alone or you might make some fans, like myself, lose interest in the rest of your issue. If I see another instance I will stop buying the book.

Some other places where politics are bothering me in Marvel books....

- Austen's Captain America... The Government froze Cap cause Cap would not have approved of dropping nukes on Japan. Ok, well maybe Cap would have had a problem with that, but the morality of those events has been debated for 60 odd years now and its still going strong. Why would I want my comic books and one of my favorite characters to take a stance on such a contorversial topic? Way to alienate a good chunk of your readers!

- Johns' Avengers... Writers really don't like the US government. Now they have designed bio-weapons that were supposed to target and kill people of color only! God I hope this all turns out to be a frame job by hydra. The idea that our government would do what Johns' has outlined here is insulting and I shouldn't have to worry about reading such propaganda in my comic books... I'll leave that to the news. At least he created a new "evil" secretary of defense for his story. If he had used Rumsfeld as some other writers are I would have thrown out the book then and there.

- A year or so ago in the Cyclops limited series the writer felt it necessary to inform us that Cyclops always votes Democratic. Suffice to say I did not buy the rest of the series. Nevermind that of all the X-men, save maybe Wolverine, Scott seems like a republican to me, but I just plain don't want to know what party my favorite characters vote for. I don't need to be told Cap is a republican or that Spider-man is a democrat. I can't believe the editors let this one through since it is so obvious.

I hope you all read this and I hope you all see my point even if you agree with the view of the writers. Politics have no place in comic books.

[Black mamba]

i have only one thing to say about the are in the issue WHORI-BILE. i've seen garney do some amazing work but this issue was sloppy and disgusting i find my self squinting and praying each time i turned the page. just to let marvel know art helps sell a comic if the story is bad the art will help to slightly improve a persons liking of it . with such a convulted story and bad art i'm positive the new readers decided once looking at this issue not to get it. i found this issue alright but alot of parts bugged me father witney blabering about some garbage that we know nothing about than saying "i never would have thought i'd love a mutie" just ruined ANY possible sympathy i would have for father witney. jean suddenlu sprouting green hair was also another turn off. havoks costume and lornas costume should just be throughn in a furnance never to be worn again. all and all i found this issue quite sloppy i found myself having to read things twice to understand it.

[Ryan Scott]

Originally posted by Sneakydub
Mabus and Bamfette have the inside scoop. I mean, really, what happened here? Please mark this as being due to a technical mistake and not the waning talent of our beloved creators. Am I to understand this was a &quot;rush job?&quot; How so?

It was planned as a 4 issue arc, apparently, that was put into 2 issues.


Personally, I'm torn with this issue. The faults were there, definitely. It felt truncated (because it WAS, but there's no reason the normal reader should know that) and the expositional dialogue only served to hamper the effect on many levels. It relies too heavily on "show" and not enough "tell". Confusion on the CoH's intentions are natural, since the plot kept changing and modifying itself until the very end. I won't, however, say that Chuck handled Christianity "wrong" because, as Jill has stated before, these are FANATICS. They don't need to have a well-thought-out, coherent, plausible strategy.

That being said, what I really enjoyed was the dynamic shared between all the characters. The action scenes flowed very well in my opinion, and the Polaris sequence was quite effective (for all those who missed the subtlety of her actions in 421, this should now seem clearer). And I'm rather disconcerned that some posters are jumping to the conclusion that Jean murdered the Bishop and Mutant 143. There's nothing to indicate that, only the impression she was about to lay down a big hurt on them.

I'm looking forward to "Sacred Vows" and the Exiles arc, only because I know Austen is capable of more cohesive plotting and story structuring.

[clancynut]

I disagree I think that comics are a realm where political view should be expressed the whole X-men deal is based on political views of racism

you may disagree with what he said but a truly open minded person would be able to see that what was in the book was his opinion not something to bludgeon to death but something to understand possibly to counter but just because its published doesn't mean its right you have to be able to accept other peoples opinions and understand them to be truly open minded and trying to avoid other peoples opinions isn't even trying

[Chris Wilson]

Originally posted by Cbenioff
I hope you all read this and I hope you all see my point even if you agree with the view of the writers. Politics have no place in comic books.

Or, rather, I say, "Who gives a fly rat's :bleep: ?"

I mean, they're comics, they're a forum of expression, and if you don't like it, than I'm glad you've stopped reading. Big friggin' deal already.

If it were an objective news periodical opining about politics, then there would be issues of journalistic integrity. But it's not; it's a friggin' comic. Sheesh!

-Chris

[heeeve]

didnt like this storyline at all, normally I love uncanny but this story line sucks, and I dont really care much about Kurt anymore, he can go ahead and quit, I dont care. Hopefully the wedding issue will be up to the usual standard. As for skin dying who cares, he was a waste back in generation x and that was when he was a major part of the team. Oh, kill jono off too.

[Black mamba]

if any of u are intrested in seeing phillp tans artwork on uncanny send me a private message.:D by the way in the previews one of the girls look like penance.

[Red]

Originally posted by Brian E. Wilkinson
Unfortunately, as with any good issue, there is also some bad. I was one of many thrilled to see Havok come back, but this is not the Havok I remember. He's a smartass, interrupts all the time, sarcastic, dark, and seems to think he's the leader of Kurt's team. Who knows, he might be, but you'd think they'd mention something about it. I may have missed that page.

Yeah, I'm having trouble accepting the revived Havok and how he relates to everyone. When did he get so comfident and comfortable with himself? When did he and Scott start getting along? When did he become such good buds w/Kurt?

Instead, he dies off panel, with two or three panels commenting on his passing. Not exactly a heroes burial.

Anybody else read the first page text and notice Jesse Bedlam's name in the list of casualites? While I think that might be him on the first panel of #423 front-and-center (everyone thinks it's Skin, but if so it's a bad rendition), no one has even mentioned the name. Talk about lack of proper burial.

There were also one or two points during the story that reminded me of the X-Men 2 movie. The mutant controlling the minds of the X-Men, for one, and the way the X-Men take out the normal human trying to destroy them all. Austen is careful to make sure that these aren't just typical comic book moments with thoughtful and careful dialogue, but it just felt a little too close to familiar material. Of course, given that Austen writes months in advance, I know he didn't copy the movie, it's just an unfortunate coincidence.

Don't think it's coincidence. I read somewhere that this arc was supposed to feature Rev. Stryker, until Claremont was asked to do GLMK2. And timed with the movie and the 25 cent issue, I think it was supposed to look like the movie. (Too bad the story was way too convoluted for first-time readers, even if it was technically "logical.")

Oh well, soon we'll have Philip Tan and... another artist.... ;).... that will make this a MUST see AND read title. Don't you hate being teased?

Are we talking about Silvestri? Wizard announced he was coming back to X-Men a while back, but they said New X-Men and we haven't heard anything since. Oh well, either way, after this issue I'm looking forward to the change in artist, even if it is for the gazillionth time. Tan's art is definitely something I'm looking forward to. Anyone know if Asamiya's done? (I hope so.)

Oh, so much negativity from me. Sorry. It was just this two-parter that brought it out in me. (The sudden disappearance of wheel-chair bound telepath from the Brooklyn church, where he was at the end of last issue, to Montana is just...awful. What, was he an illusion?) Austin's run up till now has been great.

Sidenote: Everyone is blaming this arc on having to clean up Casey's mess. Personally, I enjoyed Nightcrawler-as-priest, and don't understand why everyone else felt differently. Sure, the CoH thing needed wrapping up, but why all the backtracking? I don't want to get this thread off-track, so maybe someone can send me a PM? Maybe I'll just find the Nightcrawler thread.

Anyway, hopefully Austin will be back to normal next month.

[Bamfette]

as for the need for 'backtracking' the fully ordained thing was thrown at Chuck at the last second, otherwise this arc would have never happened. chuck quite simply does not like Nightcrawler as a priest, he wanted to get him out of the pristhood so he would enjoy writing him more. simple as that.

[dredweezul]

Ok honestly, so it wasn't his best issue...EVERYONE throws a clanger sometimes...lets not crucify him just yet...K??????

Dredz

[Cbenioff]

Originally posted by clancynut
I disagree I think that comics are a realm where political view should be expressed the whole X-men deal is based on political views of racism

you may disagree with what he said but a truly open minded person would be able to see that what was in the book was his opinion not something to bludgeon to death but something to understand possibly to counter but just because its published doesn't mean its right you have to be able to accept other peoples opinions and understand them to be truly open minded and trying to avoid other peoples opinions isn't even trying


Well let me put it another way. The appearance of the writers political views in a comic book ruins my enjoyment of the book. I hope you all can understand that at least. Think of a politic view you disagree with and imagine Captain America or whoever voicing that opinion in one of your favorite books. You would be upset. And all we can do is write letters that won't get the time of day, stop reading the book we love, or complain here.

So I am frustrated. I love these books and I don't want stuff like this to ruin that. I read comics presicely to get away from all that junk. To say comics need to be political is false. The ideas about racism and such expresed in books like the X-men are widely accepted and I would doubt anyone who reads the books would be offended. There are laws against hate crimes and segrigation in this country. To say racism is wrong is not going to stir up trouble. To say war is wrong or to say abortion is right is going to bother a percentage of readers. The writers have an obligation to the fans and the characters to avoid such occurances.

Do you think management of a baseball team would allow a player to wear a Bush/Cheney 2004 sticker on his jersey? No, because it would upset the fan base and bring something into the game that would ruin the dynamic.

To align beloved heroes with political parties or agendas is wrong. All of a sudden our favorite books become tools for propaganda. How would you all feel if Fox bought Marvel and all our comics started sounding like Fox News? It would be legal sure but would you be happy? Well currently the exact opposite is true as the majority of comic writers are liberal and its shows through in the comics. I would hate to see this medium reduced to that level and I hope writers will be more careful and responsible in the future.

[Toast]

Originally posted by Cbenioff
Politics have no place in comic books.

I could not possibly disagree more with this statement. :)

[TurdFerguson]

Originally posted by Cbenioff



Well let me put it another way. The appearance of the writers political views in a comic book ruins my enjoyment of the book. I hope you all can understand that at least. Think of a politic view you disagree with and imagine Captain America or whoever voicing that opinion in one of your favorite books. You would be upset. And all we can do is write letters that won't get the time of day, stop reading the book we love, or complain here.


I can't think of one medium of literature that isn't loaded with some sort of political bias. Even children's literature such as Dr. Seuss and Shell Silverstein are loaded with political commentary. If you don't like it, that's tough, but if Marvel doesn't mind it, and I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the people here are in agreement with Marvel, then don't complain to a bunch of people that don't care how you feel about it.

[Fusion]

Sal L. is the new artist, i'm bankin on it!!!:D

[thebigO]

this is for cbenioff.

let me put it this wayfor you.

you do not like politics in comics when the writer has a point of view you dont agree with.


the whole entire concept of x-men was based on racisim and cold war paranoia (did i spell that wrong), and was supposed to express and promote tolerence.

i think it would be fair to say that it still is relevant today, especially with muslims, or gays. or any other minority in our society.

i do not know as much anout captain america, but wasn't he a creation made to deal with the nazi's? a political party that opposes the american view.

if i recall correctly. even superman was created to help the american morale during the great depression, and i reckon that is even a political motivation.

even batman and spiderman poses polical questions about vigilanties (once again forgive my spelling)
so, this is defintly NOT a new trend.

politics have a not only a great medium in which to be explored in comics, but have been a great source of inspiration for comics.

i personally enjoy looking at different points of view and be entertained at the same time.

is that not what comics are about....?

[TurdFerguson]

Originally posted by dredweezul
Ok honestly, so it wasn't his best issue...EVERYONE throws a clanger sometimes...lets not crucify him just yet...K??????

Dredz

yeah, we should wait until after he buys us all dinner to make up for the bad joke before we crucify him!

Dang, now I'm probably next in line to get the ax.

[ferretnaura]

Okay, I finally read the issue.. all I have to say is that my post back on page 1 is still accurate......

I now need to add bad editting to the mix; bad coloring (Jean with green hair), not knowing the difference between Cyclops and Iceman due to how drawn (bobby with red sunglasses).

Poor story, poor art, poor UXM...

Hey Marvel.... I know UXM is still in the top ten sales, but that's only because of the "X" in the title and due to all of us 30+ year olds who have been collecting it since before puberty and don't want to stop now.

But boy, I sure do want to stop this title in the worst possible way... It's been a long three years of this title (yes, I didn't like Casey's run either).

Oh well.. bottom of the pile UXM goes.. There are always trips to the bathroom when I may want to read and look at it.

[Daniel J Ciccaglione]

The story was ok. I was hopeing that the humanity guys would get a little frightened when they saw Logan not even getting phase by the flame thrower. I was looking forward to him jumping up to where they were and slashing them. But Lorna is looking like Morrigan from Darkstalkers that is sad really because that suit does not look right on her. I love how the Phoenix came out though. But overall this issue could of been better.

[Red]

Originally posted by Tha Wolverine
But Lorna is looking like Morrigan from Darkstalkers that is sad really because that suit does not look right on her.

To everyone who doesn't like the costume, a question: Is this not the same costume from UXM #96 or so, when Havok and Polaris showed up as puppets of Eric the Red? I thought it was. In which case, I think it has some significance in this "crazy Lorna" scenario.

Sorry if I'm wrong or pointing out the obvious, but to my knowledge no one has brought this up.:)

[Cbenioff]

I guess I will have to agree to disagree but I think most of you are missing my point. The issues you all bring up aren't as controversial as the ones I am arguing against. And its not a matter of a comic exploring politics in a fair manner. Its a matter of aligning a character with a certain viewpoint at the whims of the writer... even if it doesn't make sense.

Frankly I didn't post this as a debate topic. Its simply fact that it is happening. It is a fact that it alienates some people. And it is a fact that in the long run it will not serve the best interests of the character, the reader and the book. Keeping things open and up to the imagination of the reader is always a better option than locking a character along some controversial path.

If a book wants to debate the finer points of morality on issues such as racism or the reality of evil thats fine, but hard statements supporting or opposing a CURRENT platform that is heatedly debated is wrong. Exploring those issues may be ok but blindly asigning loyalties is not. Why should I be open minded if the writer is not?

I suppose you all would love an issue of Cap where all he does is go around the U.S. campaigning for George W. Bush. I mean thats what comics are for right?!? I can't believe I even needed to explain this...

[crozack]

I dunno. I didn't dig the cover. The whole point of the issue was to draw closure to the Nightcrawler sub-plot and instead we get a cover with Logan, Warren and Bobby who played small roles in the issue or (in Warren's case) weren't there at all. Hmm...

I liked Garney's art in this issue more than ever before. I mean, this issue definately felt rushed all over, not just with the art but it still captured alot of the Captain America feel that I love so much in his work.

Not the best issue that Chuck has done so far but...Tan's coming on and Chuck was simply trying to wrap up a sub-plot quickly so, hey, I'm down with it. I hope next month is better though.

[xmanson2.0]

Just one thing..I hope the other artists can make this new costume for Havok look better, because in garney's hands it's just horrid.one of the worst, actually.

One more thing...wafers that make catholics disintegrate???BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.....probably one of the most ridiculous things I've ever read......

[Eric J. Moreels]

Originally posted by GuyX
Maybe Austen realised how bad the this storyline was and thats why he took a vaction from the boards.

No, Chuck left the forums because of the incredibly stupid and insulting comments from some posters, such as a few that populated this thread (and have since been deleted). I'm astounded that some of these people think they had the right to say what they did!

Enough is enough, people. If you cannot come online and discuss topics with others in a mature manner whilst being respectful to the creators of the source material (whatever it is) as well as your fellow posters, then you've no right to post on a discussion forum. And don't think you can go hiding behind free speech banners or cries of censorship, because there is absolutely no justification for personal insults or attacks.

In future, anyone seen personally insulting anyone else - even in supposed jest - will be banned immediately and permanently.

Think before you post. It's not that difficult, and it will make for a much better environment for discussion for everybody.

Now this thread is to stay on the topic of Uncanny #424. If it goes off-topic again, the thread will be closed.

[Toast]

Originally posted by Eric J. Moreels


In future, anyone seen personally insulting a creator will be banned instantly.


Good call. Criticism of a creator's work is one thing, but resorting to personal attacks is totally uncalled for. It's too bad that so many people don't appreciate that the opportunity to interact with a creator is a privilege -- not a right -- and waste that opportunity with petty insults.

[logansan]

what the...when did this ish come out, can someone tell me i think my comic guy missed my box

[Fusion]

Originally posted by Eric J. Moreels


No, Chuck left the forums because of the incredibly stupid and insulting comments from some posters, such as a few that populated this thread (and have since been deleted). I'm astounded that some of these people think they had the right to say what they did!

Enough is enough, people. If you cannot come online and discuss topics with others in a mature manner whilst being respectful to the creators of the source material (whatever it is) as well as your fellow posters, then you've no right to post on a discussion forum. And don't think you can go hiding behind free speech banners or cries of censorship, because there is absolutely no justification for personal insults or attacks.

In future, anyone seen personally insulting anyone else - even in supposed jest - will be banned immediately and permanently.

Think before you post. It's not that difficult, and it will make for a much better environment for discussion for everybody.

Now this thread is to stay on the topic of Uncanny #424. If it goes off-topic again, the thread will be closed.

About Time!!!

[Hellion]

Who was the woman on the last page in the church Kurt walks into? It says he is at Xavier's, didn't know they had a church on the grounds.

[Daniel J Ciccaglione]

Originally posted by Red


To everyone who doesn't like the costume, a question: Is this not the same costume from UXM #96 or so, when Havok and Polaris showed up as puppets of Eric the Red? I thought it was. In which case, I think it has some significance in this &quot;crazy Lorna&quot; scenario.

Sorry if I'm wrong or pointing out the obvious, but to my knowledge no one has brought this up.:)
Well I never read UXM 96 so I don't know. I just think it looks bad on her. I liked her old suit.

[Brian Wilkinson]

Salvador Larroca is indeed the new artist I was hinting at. Look to X-Fan later today for the full story!

[Fusion]

Originally posted by Brian E. Wilkinson
Salvador Larroca is indeed the new artist I was hinting at. Look to X-Fan later today for the full story!

Brian, is Sal and Phil the main artists now on Uncanny?:?

[Brian Wilkinson]

Yup

[Alan Lynch]

Glad to hear Garney's off the book. No offence to the guy, but I've never felt he suited the book. His art ranged from pretty good (Rules of Engagement) to pretty bad IMO - Holy War being a prime example. Havok's costume just looks daft. I'd still prefer one regular artist, but mustn't grumble!
I really didn't like this issue, or the arc itself really. I've enjoyed Chuck's run thus far, but this didn't do much. But it's cool, since he was only trying to clear up stuff he was stuck with. I was a little worried at how the whole plot was relayed to us Bond-style. I half expected the Pontiff to twirl a moustache. Onwards and upwards though - can't wait to see Tan's stuff.

[thewrite1]

Originally posted by Hellion
Who was the woman on the last page in the church Kurt walks into? It says he is at Xavier's, didn't know they had a church on the grounds.

Don't know who the woman is. Doesn't really matter. I think I first saw the church when they were burying Colossus (or somebody) and its nearby to the Institute not right on the grounds.

[ultimateX]

though ron garney has some issues worth praising, this issue definitely... is not at par to his previous works (one word: sucks!).

i didnt understand the whole storyline. guess have to re- read it.

[TurdFerguson]

I don't understand why people had trouble understanding the story to this issue, it seemed pretty straightforward to me, probably the least confusing thing that Austen has done. If Austen wrote comics like this all the time, I would definitely be obliged to tone down my criticism quite a bit.

In simpler terms, me likey!

[Booyah9]

Garney doesn't seem bad, but this issue was just weird and sloppy looking. On one page, Havok is standing pretty much still in the same position between two panels, and the metal on his costume changes chape from one panel to the next. Seems like everyone rushed this, Writer/Penciller/Colorist.

Oh well, next issue please!

[Daniel J Ciccaglione]

I understood the issue I think it's just that it could of been better plot wise. And more action at the end. Both issues seemed like it was heading up to a big fight scene with the Church of Humanity to me, and it didn't happen at all. Don't get me wrong I liked how Lorna took out the Church people with there own bullets I fliped out and yelled some words llttle kids shouldn't hear, I enjoy that these jerks got what was coming to them. I think the woman in the church was just a nun or someone that works there praying.

[wizzbizz]

l cant believe that the question of bedlam's death was not answered in this issue what is going on

[Patrick James]

Am I the only one who will be sad to see Ron go?

His pencils in Hope were beautiful and set the perfect pace for Chuck's run on Uncanny.

Also, between some bad panels here and there, the story is very easy to follow and there are quite a few nice images. For instance, the first page with Nightcrawler hagning upside down. Garney's detailed Nightcrawler is really nice, IMO.

I agree that his recent work has not been as good or consistent as his earlier work, but he is still the best penciler, IMO, on Uncanny since Churchill left out of left field after three issues or so.

Sorry, but the bashing was getting me down.

[Booyah9]

Originally posted by Arkangel4Psy
Am I the only one who will be sad to see Ron go?

His pencils in Hope were beautiful and set the perfect pace for Chuck's run on Uncanny.

Also, between some bad panels here and there, the story is very easy to follow and there are quite a few nice images. For instance, the first page with Nightcrawler hagning upside down. Garney's detailed Nightcrawler is really nice, IMO.

I agree that his recent work has not been as good or consistent as his earlier work, but he is still the best penciler, IMO, on Uncanny since Churchill left out of left field after three issues or so.

Sorry, but the bashing was getting me down.

I think he's a good artist, and yes I like his Kurt. There were just some sloppy panels in Holy War. IMO he did the best job out of the team during that arc.

[little kon-el]

Originally posted by Cbenioff
I guess I will have to agree to disagree but I think most of you are missing my point. The issues you all bring up aren't as controversial as the ones I am arguing against. And its not a matter of a comic exploring politics in a fair manner. Its a matter of aligning a character with a certain viewpoint at the whims of the writer... even if it doesn't make sense.

Frankly I didn't post this as a debate topic. Its simply fact that it is happening. It is a fact that it alienates some people. And it is a fact that in the long run it will not serve the best interests of the character, the reader and the book. Keeping things open and up to the imagination of the reader is always a better option than locking a character along some controversial path.

If a book wants to debate the finer points of morality on issues such as racism or the reality of evil thats fine, but hard statements supporting or opposing a CURRENT platform that is heatedly debated is wrong. Exploring those issues may be ok but blindly asigning loyalties is not. Why should I be open minded if the writer is not?

I suppose you all would love an issue of Cap where all he does is go around the U.S. campaigning for George W. Bush. I mean thats what comics are for right?!? I can't believe I even needed to explain this...


if a comic book can't make hard statements about a current political platform, when comics originated from the political times it was created in (both superman and captain america were roosevelt democrats who pretty much followed an exaggerated version of roosevelt's new deal), then what's the point in writing it? for pure escapism? sure. that would be fine if this weren't a medium that prides itself on creating comics in the "here and now." but comics have had a long history of political stories. superman has had a plethora of different stories about racism. captain america found himself confronting a thinly veiled richard nixon who shoots himself for his racist beliefs. we had the legacy virus that is a direct metaphor for AIDS. we had the X-men as homeless punks and british street people in the early 1980s.

politics are a part of the comic book landscape, whether it's apparent or not. the key point i think you're trying to make is that chuck austin (and the other authors you mentioned) has a hard time with metaphor. usually that's how most writers work...they create a metaphor about the idea that fits in with the fictional world and "doesn't take you out of the politics of the situation." morrison's metaphor is popular culture and the effects of a large-scale hateful tragedy on a minority of people. austin could've worked with a better metaphor, in the same way that joe casey did with the "church of humanity" earlier, but he was just a sloppy writer at it.

maybe what's bothering you is not the politics of the story, because most stories post-911 have politics in it (just ask any new yorker and they'll tell you that you can't live in new york without having strong feelings about politics), but merely the execution of the politics. maybe it it was someone else executing the ideas it might not have been as jumbled as many people have made it out to be.

that way the metaphor would've been more subtle instead of being as blatant as it was shown in the latest comic.

little kon-el

[Fusion]

Originally posted by Arkangel4Psy
Am I the only one who will be sad to see Ron go?

His pencils in Hope were beautiful and set the perfect pace for Chuck's run on Uncanny.

Also, between some bad panels here and there, the story is very easy to follow and there are quite a few nice images. For instance, the first page with Nightcrawler hagning upside down. Garney's detailed Nightcrawler is really nice, IMO.

I agree that his recent work has not been as good or consistent as his earlier work, but he is still the best penciler, IMO, on Uncanny since Churchill left out of left field after three issues or so.

Sorry, but the bashing was getting me down.

I'll give you that he drew a great Nightcrawler, but his stuff wasn't up to his usual Captain America and Hulk standard.

[Bloodwin1]

I didn't think the art was that bad, but Havok and Lorna both look terrible, when they left they were both cutting edge, now they have gone back past the 90s to their terrible 80s look. Ugh.

On a personal note, I don't like religious stories, they assume too much. It's as if the writer is taking it for granted that all the readers are Christian and will understand and relate to the story. I was so glad Iceman was there to ask questions for me.

I enjoyed the ensemble of X Men although I have to admit Cyclops has been behaving like a jerk I'm glad he didn't say much this issue. I agree that Havok did seem to be taking over the team and since when was Kurt a team Leader? He hasn't been in the book regularly for ages and the last time we really got some dialogue was in the run up to this plot where Kurt left to go off with Alex and Lorna. Next thing Cyclops is telling him he's a cruddy leader. Huh? Did I miss something?

For my money the best characters on the book at the moment are Juggernaught, Angel and Iceman. Juggernaught has had some great issues this year and in comparison this arc failed miserably. It was a run of the mill arc for a run of the mill book, but as I have said elsewhere, I think Marvel could easily ditch one of the core X books, they just don't seem to have enough quality for all 3 books, but maybe it's just that it's natural to compare the books and one will always be less good than the others. This month it was 'Uncanny' next month I expect it will go back to being 'New'.

Ho Hum

Bloodwin.

[Phoebe Mittens]

Originally posted by Bamfette
while the resolution was interesting, i felt that it was kinda 'crammed in' and could have used atleast one more issue to properly set it up and resolve it. it was jsut too much to process.

God, that's exactly what I thought. I had to read it twice to make sense of it, and although I thought the story really had potential, there was so much text-exposition that it clunked along... I really wish they could've spread it over 3 issues (at least.)

Originally posted by Bamfette
and the art CERTAINLY didn't help matters....

Nightcrawler's tail still comes out of his arse and not his spine, I see... :rolleyes:

[citizenVXV]

Read The X-men 96 annual and you can come to realize Wolverines "avenging" is not misplaced. The X-men are a family and if one of 'em dies you can take it personal even if you don't have this deep friendship with them. I am a teacher and while I don't get to know every student well, if one of them was to be brutally murdered, you can bet I would be pissed off and would feel an urge for vengence...I mean how old was angelo?...17 tops? you have 17 year old that you even know on the surface murdered and you will be pissed off too....I live 15 miles from Columbine and I didn't even know anyone who died and that still ticks me off everytime I think about it...the impact of having somebody murdered on your front lawn would be something I would have hard time getting past...

[Daniel J Ciccaglione]

Yeah I know what you mean I would be mad to.

[Midknight]

Just read this issue and I must say, I'm extremely dissapointed in how silly uXmen has become.

This was one of the worst issues I've ever read in Uncanny, and I've been reading since Kitty Pryde declared "Professor Xavier is a Jerk!" way back in 83.

First though, I don't want it to seem like I'm bashing the hell out of this writer because I've read other stories from him and I KNOW he's good and very capable in telling X-Men chronicles. One thing, I love the return of Havok. Secondly, I love Lorna Dane, she's nasty but I think this writer is having a hard time trying to show it. Evil eyes does not do it for me.

Simply put, their's no substance to these stories. I feel like I'm reading an old school sixties comics the way the team feels so static. I was expecting Wolverine to yell, "It's Clobberin Time!" Instead he yells, "This is for Skin!" *shudders* Come on, let's dig into the darkness a bit. This comic is silly and it seems like uXmen has fallen to readers ages 4-10.

Let's see, things just happening for the sake of happening. Oh Lorna gets shot. But she's okay. Cyclops shot three times. But he's okay. Come on, can we get some real writing in these books? The plot was weak, weak, weak. No drama, nothing to care about, nothing spectacular, and using last issues crucified mutants as an excuse to make these Church of Humanity folks seem so villianous... nothing connects. Kurt would be labeled the anti-christ and all hell would break out on the mutant community, blah blah blah... very weak, very unrealistic.

What really made me cringe was Havok using his solar blast, you know, the one that INCINERATES anything in its path? Yeah, he fires it at one of the CoH members and he flies into the wall as if it were one of Cyclops pressurized blasts. Can this writer AT LEAST get the power signatures straight? And what's with confusing Jean Grey's hair with Lorna Dane's on the fourth panel on page 22? Ugh. Human error, fine. I'll let it go.

I'm dissapointed in Chuck Austen's writing this issue. I'd like to see these characters develop in a way that is at least slightly dramatic (and NO that does not mean more LOVE TRIANGLES). Love triangles does not make drama. For example, Havok was one to FEAR his power. Anything he blasted was incinerated. He did not like to use it on living subjects. Why? Because, as stated in the beginning, he generates SOLAR powered PLASMA blasts. Plasma is what makes up much of the matter within stars. Solar... HEAT. He CANNOT simply slam people into walls. That's CYCLOPS. Not HAVOK. It's the trait that made Havok so angst ridden, similar to Cyclops having to constantly wear those 'shades'. It was more of a handicap, but when used right, it could provide a great advantage in a tumultous situation.

Remember how Chris Claremont used to write Havok? He HESITATED to use his power outright. And after awhile, when the brother of Cyclops began to feel disaffected by his service in the X-Men, and when he stopped caring about most things in general, he began to INCINERATE the bad guys and would threaten baddies that he would incinerate their arms off and caterize the wound so they wouldn't bleed to death. (uXmen 249).

Get it right, that's what I say. I'm not impressed this storyline, and Austen seems like he has MUCH more potential. At least, I like to believe he does. These childish stories are horrible and when compared to a more mature writer like Grant Morrison, it really shows. I'm not insulting Austen, really. He's not always this bad, but it seems like his run on the uXmen titles is lacking. He seems almost bored and I would suggest a complete overhall with this flagship title. These stories are going NOWHERE and are not connecting with any of the other X-books, and the character development isn't either.

Let's get some gripping, provactive, impacting, dramatic stories. Not a bunch of regurgitated crap using the X-Men as stick figure pieces of colored sketches jumping around and saying virtually nothing worth reading. Even the religious quotations were out of place and very unrealistic while in the heat of battle. And when you get shot, it hurts, BAD, and can put you down for the count for quite some time. Yeah these are mutants, but they are not invulnerable. If a character gets shot, let's make it realistic as possible, not just. "Ow... I should have been able to block that, but it seems I could not, now my shoulder is bleeding, and it seems that I am at a minor disadvantage now that a bullet has lodged itself in between my tender nerve cells which control the movement of my arm. These villians shall pay."

I guarantee, next issue, they'll be playing basketball in the school courtyard or something.

UGH! With this issue. :hrm:

[Booyah9]

Well from what I've heard the next issue is focused heavily on the soap opera style. I don't really know excatly what that means, but if it means all soap opera I could see myself getting frustrated.

[Daniel J Ciccaglione]

Originally posted by Booyah9
Well from what I've heard the next issue is focused heavily on the soap opera style. I don't really know excatly what that means, but if it means all soap opera I could see myself getting frustrated.
Isn't the Wedding the next arc then Nightcrawler's origin revealed follows. I can see the wedding arc being an soap opera type of thing.

[Harold the Wonder Dog]

I guarantee, next issue, they'll be playing basketball in the school courtyard or something.

I'd prefer a softball game myself. ^_^ But I have a feeling even that would be ruined.

[Hellion]

Originally posted by Arkangel4Psy
Am I the only one who will be sad to see Ron go?


His art on this title just didn't do anything for me. A lot of times it totally didn't suit the story either. He was by far not the worst artist the title has had though.

[Jeanne M]

I was expecting Wolverine to yell, &quot;It's Clobberin Time!&quot; Instead he yells, &quot;This is for Skin!&quot; *shudders* Come on, let's dig into the darkness a bit.

I think on that point, you're being a little harsh. Yeah, the issue was a tad campy in spots, we've established that. However, I think you're underestimating the 'darkness' potential that's brewing.

We know that Logan is kinda pissy about what these people did to Jubilee. Since the man feels serious guilt and angst about anything that has a remote possiblity of being his fault, he feels the need to somehow 'avenge' his sparkler and her friend. It doesn't matter that he doesn't know Skin, he's feeling severe guilt about not being there to save Jubilee. There's a golden chance here for exploring just how Wolverine feels about failing yet another of his women, and I don't think its potential should be ignored just because the writer didn't phrase it as well as he could have.

Or maybe I'm hallucinating. Either one is possible at 3am. :D

[NicholasRogue]

Originally posted by Hellion


His art on this title just didn't do anything for me. A lot of times it totally didn't suit the story either. He was by far not the worst artist the title has had though.


Yeah I agree Garney didn't do it for me either. Way to cartoony and cheezy

[Suzene]

Originally posted by thewrite1


I particularly appreciate Suzene's and UMichWolverine's views on this issue. The Catholic reviewers provide an interesting insight into the religion.

I've been agnostic for well over a decade, actually. n_n

Happily, I'm no longer spasming and spewing bile over Austen's writing. UXM #425 was a *vast* improvement, so far as story and art go. I still have bones to pick, but I can wait for the review to go up to throw my quasi-hissy fit. ;)

Suzene

[Ryking]

I know it's a bit late but...
I'm a little confused since I don't have Uncanny X-Men #424... but am I to understand that the Supreme Pontiff is a woman? How the hell did that happen? Wolverine get too close with those claws or what?

[thewrite1]

She was a woman dressing as a man. Nightcrawler leapt on her shoulders, teleported her helmet/costume off and then reeled in shock as a woman continued to scream scripture.

Don't ask me why Nightcrawler decided to teleport her clothes off . . .

[Booyah9]

I was a little confused as well until I saw that the helmet Nightcrawler had taken was a full blown disguise. Not a very detailed panel.

[Ryking]

ok... that makes a little more sense than Chuck having just retconned the Supreme Pontiff into a woman.

[Suzene]

Originally posted by Booyah9
I was a little confused as well until I saw that the helmet Nightcrawler had taken was a full blown disguise. Not a very detailed panel.

Or a very well-executed one; I thought Kurt had teleported her whole head off! I was a little stunned; it's not like the Fuzzy Elf to cack people so casually. Well, usually...*cough*X-Calibre*cough*

Suzene

[Shiro-AOA]

Originally posted by ozymandias
This issue in my opinion was just bad fan-fiction.Where is Joe, the franchise was innovative, it was an exploration of modernity, of the trends in our society. Now it is back in spandex to fight lama vilains, with world domination plan explained in the last page.

just an interesting thought here....

who here reads comics to learn all about trends in our society? if i want that i will go read the news paper...i read comics for escapism! :)

[xander harris]

I think the issue is okay. not too good, but not completely sucky. garney's art was horrible. his storytelling was bad, only some of his close-ups were good. his renditioin of jean was just plain ugly.