NEW X-MEN #142 REVIEW

[Anthony Zisa]

<a href="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/covers/newxmen142.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/covers/newxmen142t.jpg" align=left alt="New X-Men #142"></a>Reviewer: Anthony Zisa, aczisa@xfan.cjb.net
Story Title: Brimstone and Whiskey
Quick Rating: Excellent!

Scott versus Logan-who truly has the iron liver?

Written by: Grant Morrison
Pencilled by: Chris Bachalo
Inked by: Tim Townsend
Colored by: Chris Chuckry
Lettered by: Chris Eliopoulos
Assistant Editor: Warren Simons
Associate Editor: Mike Raicht
Editor: Mike Marts
Editor-in-Chief: Joe Quesada
President: Bill Jemas

One of the amazing things about "Brimstone and Whiskey" is the ambiance. Grant Morrison writes the perfect Hellfire Club, a place where mutants can go to spend their money, no questions asked, no vices frowned upon. It is a seedy, yet elegant place, all Victorian trappings and 20th century decadence.

Yet, the Hellfire Club is hardly the center of "Brimstone and Whiskey." It merely exists for ambiance, a place where Scott Summers's fall ends. For someone wound as tightly as Scott Summers, the Hellfire Club represents the stop on his express elevator to moral ambiguity. And who better to meet him there than his friend, comrade, and fellow traveler in the world of gray morals, Logan?

The Scott/Logan relationship has never been crisper, more well-defined, and better represented than under Grant Morrison's pen. Just as Morrison has created Hank/Emma and Hank/Jean as wonderful relationships that sizzle with wit and realism, he writes some quintessential Scott/Logan sequences in "Brimstone and Whiskey." Recognizing that Logan has traveled the roads Scott is only beginning to discover, Morrison uses the character as a foil to Scott. Logan understands Scott's dilemma, yet at the same time cannot help but be amused. He is there to help Scott discover what it is he needs, and help Scott put his tattered relationship with Jean back together.

That Logan has always, and probably will always, envy what Scott has-beautiful women falling over themselves to break through his self-imposed emotional shell-is essential to why "Brimstone and Whiskey" is some of the best Logan characterization since Logan's conversation with Stacy in Uncanny X-Men #408. Far from the one-note characterization presented immediately post-relaunch, the audience has rediscovered the complexities that made Logan such a popular character in the first place. The heart of a berserker and warrior (as will undoubtedly be displayed in the next few issues) balanced with the honor of a samurai and compassion of a lover.

The mirror nature of Scott and Logan's problems is perfectly suited to the story. There is no action or fighting in "Brimstone and Whiskey," only dialogue. Some of the best dialogue Morrison has written for the X-Men, in fact. The conflict is contained within the characters' lives. Both Logan and Scott are haunted by the specters of women past-Logan by Rose, his first love upon which his love for Jean seems predicated; Scott by teenage Jean, the girl he has trouble reconciling with the woman she became. In this manner, "Assault on Weapon Plus" seems to be the other side of a coin that Morrison explored in "Riot at Xavier's." Whereas the latter was a story about teenagers rebelling to discover who they are, what they can become, and what they want to become, "Assault on Weapon Plus" has begun as adults attempting to discover how to integrate their teenage years into their adulthood. The problems Logan and Scott face (and, in a way, all of the X-Men face) begin and end with their teenage life. As part of the greater idea of mutancy, which begins and is a metaphor for the teenage years, one cannot say Morrison's point does not take on multiple meanings, and that Scott and Logan's problems do not dovetail nicely with the book's high concept.

"Brimstone and Whiskey's" pace is necessary to Morrison's overall story. Scott's problems have been building over the course of more than two years, and that a whole issue is devoted to his acknowledgement of the problems seems to be the perfect length for such an important subplot. Wolverine may be on the cover, but Scott is the real star of the story. A fascinating decision, considering that the story as a whole seems centered on Logan's attempts to discover more about his past.

There are other highlights in "Brimstone and Whiskey." Sabertooth's appearance was particularly fun, and his conversation with Wolverine contained dialogue to die for. Shaw was both appropriately menacing and appropriately suave. These two cameos, while not necessary to the plot, enhanced the story-a nice turn, as recent guest appearances across the line have not navigated the thin line between adding to the overall story and distracting the reader. In addition, the issue of Weapon X's relationship to Weapon Plus is handled quite well, and in one throwaway line of dialogue Morrison addresses those who criticized him for "altering" continuity for the sake of his story. It is an obvious, but necessary compromise to the universe Morrison is writing in, handled in the only manner a writer of Morrison's caliber can-well. However, these highlights are merely window dressing-the true wonder of Morrison's story lies wholly within Logan and Scott's conversation.

The addition of Chris Bachalo to the book pleases me immensely. Bachalo's Generation X was the first comic work I absolutely fell in love with, way back in the day. He is acknowledged as the major factor in the creation of Chamber, one of my favorite characters. Bachalo is a talented artist who has created quite a bit of goodwill with me through his past work.

Luckily, that past work is evident within "Brimstone and Whiskey," as well as all the newer nuances to Bachalo's style. One of the most interesting factors of Bachalo's work is that while his style has remained generally consistent since his Generation X and Death work, the style itself seems to shift to slightly to serve the story. His rendering, prone to almost cherub faces, takes on the quality of whichever story it is telling. When he was working with Scott Lobdell on Generation X, the story informed the art in a softer manner, more befitting younger (though hardly childlike) nature of the stories. Working on "Brimstone and Whiskey," the art seems more sordid, befitting the tone of the Hellfire Club. It is a rare artist whose art equally befits these two wildly different story types, but Bachalo's artwork is of a rare breed.

His storytelling is equally strong. The page layouts are quite clever, and perfectly suited to the dialogue heavy story. They make the story more interesting than its core, which is two people shooting the breeze. Bachalo brings it to life, along with the characters inhabiting the story through their facial expressions and posture. Each tic, shrug, and expression is perfectly suited for the dialogue, an equal partnership between Bachalo and Morrison (who has said he fine tunes dialogue after the pages have been drawn). Bachalo's sensibilities have been missed on the core titles, and his return, even for one storyarc, has truly started off in a magnificent fashion.

There is little more to say about Morrison and Bachalo's opening to what will hopefully be a storyline to rival "E is for Extinction" and "Riot at Xavier's" than this: Morrison is once again cooking with heat. His storylines have recaptured the thrill of discovery-discovery of just of what an X-Men book can be capable.

ART:
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STORY:
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OVERALL:
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Order this issue online now from X-World Comics and save! (http://x-worldcomics.com/yourvirtualstore/shopdisplaycategories.asp?id=44&cat=NEW+X%2DMEN)

[Robb Welch]

In my opinion, this is the best issue of Morrisons run. I was so giddy after reading it.

Whens the next issue again?

[superfreak]

Yet, the Hellfire Club is hardly the center of "Brimstone and Whiskey." It merely exists for ambiance, a place where Scott Summers's fall ends.

Well yes and no. The story couldn't have taken place at Austen's newly introduced Robin, since it doesn't have the connection to Jean-as-Black-Queen that the Hellfire Club does. So I'd say the setting had more to do with what was going through Scott's head than simply providing an appropriately decadent environment.

Not to mention, there are worse places for a fall to end :)

Nice review. I thought this ish was very good, too.

--superfreak

[NicholasRogue]

I had one problem with this issue, and that was giving Sebastian Shaw telepathy! Because the guy doesn't have it, maybe I read it the wrong way, but that's how I think Morrison presented it. It was a good issue with good dialogue b/n Wolverine and Cyclops.

[UMichWolverine]

Great review Anthony.

This was one outstanding issue. Last week, every issue I picked up dissapointed me. This week, everything was amazing, from top to bottom, and this was no exception.

I loved the fact that Weapon X/Weapon Plus was cleared up in one statement.

I loved how Scott is becoming a multidimensional character.

I loved the Hellfire Club.

I loved Sabretooth and Wolverine.

I could go on and on.

This story looks like it will be a fun ride into learning about Wolverine and his past, as well as watching Scott become a real human being.

This brings up an interesting point for me. I am beginning to see how Scott and Wolverine are alike in many ways. We all know that Wolverine struggles to maintain his humanity and not slip into berserker rages and a feral state of mind. I think Scott struggles to maintain humanity because he is so cold and distant. He finds it very difficult to be emotional. Maybe Scott and Wolverine, operating at opposite ends of the spectrum can help each other reach a nice balance of humanity.

[spinarakboi]

yeah i too was confused by the telepathy.... I dont know his character that well but last I saw he had super strenght or something to that effect. That aside I was also dissapointed with Logan's comment about leaving Jean for some fling with Emma when that obviously wasn't the case... I rather Emma and Scott were together than Jean and Scott.

The art was the best part because the characters for once in comics looked like indvidual people instead of two similar looking people except one has read hair and the other white. But it had some good dialouge... I just wish Sabertooth never showed up as i'd want him to be more vicious than that. Not just making threats and Logan playing along.. oh well. I'd give it a 4 outta 5 though, this was certainly one of his better issues.

[SmashedPumpkin]

I was VERY and I stress VERY impressed by this issue. I have always loved the Scott-Logan interplay in any issue, and I feel it was handled with great skill in this one. If this arc is shapping up to be more about character devlopment then I shall be pleasantly proven wrong.

[Anthony Lucynski]

Bachalo's art is so achingly beautiful on ANYTHING he does that it's worth the price of admission alone.

That said, I havent liked an issue this much since E is for Extinction.

Anthony L

[Padan Fain]

I'm with the rest of everybody here--this issue is yet another reason I'm overjoyed Morrison is doing the book (and will be for AT LEAST another year!!). The way he handles the Scott/Logan relationship is honestly the best I've ever seen it, and Bachalo is doing some of his best work in YEARS IMHO. I cannot WAIT for the rest of this story...and only two weeks (fingers crossed...) till the next issue!!

The point about Shaw and telepathy was the only thing that struck me as wrong/out of place...but if I may make a guess: Shaw mentioned that all the staff that night were telepathic--maybe they were simply doing his dirty work (rummaging through Scott's mind) for him, or maybe that's even a pre-requisite for getting inside, the staff making sure you aren't there to cause any trouble (this would be ESPECIALLY true of the A++ Original X-Man) and relaying that info to Sebastion. Whatever it is, it couldn't HARDLY bring me down from the high that this issue (and the new issue of Uncanny!!) has me on. 5/5 in my book.

[Kevin Sutton]

I don't think that Morrison has yet surpassed his work in year one, and I don't care much for Bachalo's work here. It seemed to be without emotion or ambiance. The colorist provided the atmosphere for the Hellfire club, the pencils were just there. What Bachalo really needs to work on is his troll-like Wolverine and the shapeless Cyclops. I think that the lack of action in this isue contributed to Bachalo's work looking better than usual.

[Alan Lynch]

Yeah, come to think of it when did Shaw become a telepath? The way he said it doesn't make it seem as though he had someone else do it for him.

[Daniel J Ciccaglione]

Is it just me are any of you upset that Sabretooth has long hair when he has short and he didn't even have on his Weapon X suit. It may seem like Knit picking but I look at every detail that is the way I am. The art wasn't that great either. Story wise it was great, I still enjoyed the comic. I like the cover art. Plus I can't see how Sabretooth is out and roaming around when he's confined in the Weapon X compound until given a mission to do. Like I said it's just the small things I pick up and notice that, I just go they should of done some homework before they wrote this stuff.

[Howlin James]

I must say, through Morrison's entire run, #142 has been the best comic! The Scott/Logan convo. was great. There were great cameos that added the extra edge to the Hellfire club (the wolvie/Sabes convo) bathroom scene. This is by far my fav. X-men comic!! Keep at it Morrison! And Bachalo, your art is getting better everytime I see it!


:logan: :sabes:

[Cobain]

ok, so, i dont read new anymore (for monetary reasons and I just got tired of it) but can anyone please clue me in as to what exactly the difference between Weapon X and Weapon Plus is, i really want to know, because I DO read Weapon X. also, Sabretooth wandering around the Hellfire Club wouldnt be very weird since, as of Issue 9 The program no longer has control over him since Mesmero lost his powers so I suppose that would explain him A. being there in the first place and B. not being in his weapon x garb, but that still wouldnt explain this long hair you people are saying he has, oh well.

[Hellion]

Originally posted by Spriteguy16
I had one problem with this issue, and that was giving Sebastian Shaw telepathy! Because the guy doesn't have it, maybe I read it the wrong way, but that's how I think Morrison presented it. It was a good issue with good dialogue b/n Wolverine and Cyclops.
If you read it more carefully Shaw states that all the dancers are telepathic, which I took as he had one of them read Scott's mind for him.

I loved Chris Bachalo art. I hope he returns for more story arc's soon. The book has never looked so good. Can't wait for the next issue.

[Patrick James]

Originally posted by Perfect Methods
In my opinion, this is the best issue of Morrisons run. I was so giddy after reading it.

Whens the next issue again?


I couldn't agree more. Not being a huge fan of Morrison's run on New, myself, I found this issue to be the perfect balance between his "new" X-Men and the classic X-Men we all loved before he came into the X-World.

The story was well-written, the cameos were fun, the art was the best Bachalo I've seen in years and the story was not rushed or false-feeling. This might be one of my favorite comics ever...and I don't really care for that writer or artist lately! Lucky me, I guess, that low expectation led to such a positive result.

[Booyah9]

I really liked this as well. The art and story were well matched, and I really enjoyed the exploration of Scott's feelings. Best issue I've read so far.

[devin]

I don't understand why so many people love Bachalo's pencilling. I don't really enjoy the style, or find it that consistent. Look at Scott on the bottom of page 8, and the top of page 10, the pose is almost the exact same, but his hair is quite different. I don't think his pencilling even compares to the covers he is doing for Hunter: Age of Magic.
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[Alex Guillen]

Great review, Anthiny Zisa. Well i found that wolverine and Sabertooth were not easily portrayed as they once where because usually when one was near another there wasa just a big fight but now they just seem more human and more calmed (well not alot)but I would have loved to see Logan and Creed take a few blows.
scott is actually becoming his own man, he shouldn't be defined by his leading lady (jean or Emma) and is more resembelant of the past Scott.
Bachalo's art was really good, a few mistakes that I didn't like but I think he's back in full form (I loved his run on Uncanny in the 90's)
And I also had made the mistake about Shaw's telepathy, it was the dancers.

[Chris Wilson]

Originally posted by devin
...but his hair is quite different. I don't think his pencilling even compares to the covers he is doing for Hunter: Age of Magic.


Uh, I've never heard of that title, but is he even pencilling those covers?

Anyway, this is definitely the best issue of New since E is for Extinction (IMHO). I loved the cameos, and can't wait to see where this arc goes. Yet, what stood out the most, was Morrisons exploration of Cyclop's character. Well, I think the audience pretty much already has an idea of what Summer's insecurities are, yet this is the first time, in recent memory, the character has dealt with them on panel. "Dealt" meaning drowning himself in depression and ethanol products. Hey, but we've all done that at one point in time, haven't we? ;) I'm going for an RPG analogy here: Cyclops has leveled up! He's finally gained a 3rd dimension to his charater... after about 5 gazillion experience points :D

So what, I'm a nerd.

And Bachalo's art made my want to cry tears of happy dancing Disney characters! Not that his art is in any way Disneyesque, but I think the Be My Guest scene from Beauty and the Beast would most appropriately reflect how giddy I am to see Bachalo on an X-book. I really can't explain what the attraction to his work is, but I've been a fan since Generation X, and I'm not stopping now. My original (like, years ago) complaints about Bachalo's works was that sometimes panels would get cluttered, and I couldn't make out what was supposed to be what. This issue is very, very clean, and completely fits his style. I wish he was on the book full-time (but I would settle for Jimenez, Van Scivier (sp?), or Quietly too!).

I do have one complaint. Morrison set the bar very high for this, the first issue in the Weapon Plus arc. I'm afraid the next three issues will be compared to this one. But we all know Morrison's good at what he does, so hopefully my fears are for naught. We'll see.

Austen redeems himself from the Holy War and Morrison blindsides us with this killer ish. What a great week! Can't wait for the next ish!

[GuyX]

Wow, awesome issue. I've been a Morrison basher for some time, but this issue was the best core title I've read in a very, very long time. Just great handle on characters and dialoge.

Of course Bachalo, my all time fave artist since I read "Generation Next," drawing some of his best work yet didn't hurt it either.

[Lee Chong]

Maybe Sebastian's telepathy is one of these secondary mutations we keep hearing about. i certainly hope not. He is pretty much invincible as it is without the benefits of additional powers. Great great issue and I love the art, wasted on Seagal's dubious stories of the late 90's.

[SpongeBob]

Originally posted by Shabbasnake
Yeah, come to think of it when did Shaw become a telepath? The way he said it doesn't make it seem as though he had someone else do it for him.

second mutation I guess...who knows...

[Daniel J Ciccaglione]

Originally posted by Cobain
ok, so, i dont read new anymore (for monetary reasons and I just got tired of it) but can anyone please clue me in as to what exactly the difference between Weapon X and Weapon Plus is, i really want to know, because I DO read Weapon X. also, Sabretooth wandering around the Hellfire Club wouldnt be very weird since, as of Issue 9 The program no longer has control over him since Mesmero lost his powers so I suppose that would explain him A. being there in the first place and B. not being in his weapon x garb, but that still wouldnt explain this long hair you people are saying he has, oh well.
See the reason why I said that Sabretooth shouldn't be there because after what happened in Weapon X 9 it seems that Sabes wants to stick around there. So him being in the Hellfire Club seems a little out of place. But then again X-Men don't make sense sometimes and this issue is one of them.

[Dragon]

I actual though this was an unusal issue, though i actual liked it...oh my god i just admited i like something from Grant Morrison. Anyway the Black Queen Jean Look alittle was quite nice, and watching Cyke waste away into a a drunken stupper like the pansy he is was a nice touch as, was Wolverine proving a point to him, that chick dig the Good Guy and yet Cyke is throwing away his marrage to Jean like it's nothing. Logan and Creed in the restroom was intresting, and yet they managed to not beat the tar out of each other. Overall i give this issue a 4.5/5

[Zachary J. Morrison]

Good review, Anthony. The issue was good, but it didn't click with me as much as Austen's Uncanny. It somewhat threw me off when the dancers were talking. Other than that, it was good. I liked what Scott had to say to Logan about hitching up with Jean and Logan telling Scott something. I guess I'll have to reread the issue to get it more better.

[Cbenioff]

I have not been a fan of Morrison's New X-men since it began. More often than not, all the stories you all seem to love just tick me off and mess up what I always liked about the X-men.

That said... I really liked this issue. In my view it is hands down the best work Grant has done on the title. Its probably the only issue of his run I have actually enjoyed and not simply endured. Bachalo's art is great but I can see how some wouldn't like it. For me its the best art the book has had in years and I hope he stays for a long time.

I like the characterization and I was deeply pleased with the brief Weapon Plus splitting off comment... although I still wonder what Weapon Plus' deal is... I guess we will have to wait and see.

The only problem I had with the issue, and its a problem I always have with Morrison, is the lack of continuity. When does this story take place relative to Uncanny or Weapon X (I think there are more universes in marvel now than regular and ultimate... there is regular, ultimate, and New X-men)? Why does Sabertooth look like that? Does Shaw have telepathy (I'll assume someone else did it but I shouldnt have to assume)? How can Shaw and Cyclops interact so casually considering their history? The same can be said for Wolvie and Sabertooth.

These are pretty big issues but I still couldn't help but enjoy the issue. I hope Morrison can keep it up. If he adds in some explanations now and then he might even win me over.

[devin]

Originally posted by Sneakydub:
Uh, I've never heard of that title, but is he even pencilling those covers?

Hunter: Age of Magic is an extension of Vertigo's Books of Magic title, and I enjoy it more than anything I've read from Marvel in a long time.

The covers look like paintings, maybe combined with some photography and or computer effects, but I bet he does some pencil work on them early on, for layouts. More importantly, it shows a style he is capable of that is quite different from his normal pencilling, which, like Anthony Zisa said, "has remained generally consistent since his Generation X and Death work".

[Daniel J Ciccaglione]

Yeah the story was great. I can't wait for the next issue. Scott and Logan talking was some deep stuff to. But I was marking out when Logan pulled out the Jack Daniels. I was just thinking that I wanted to see Logan get drunk again or try to with his healing factor it's kind of hard.

[Stormy]

I really liked this issue. I totally agree about the ambience ... the art and colouring really painted a great picture of Hellfire -- seedy yet elegant. The interlude scenes with the dancer were done really well ... like beats in the pace of the story, as you can imagine the crack of her whip.

I always love a good character piece, and this was one of the best.

[Twilight]

fantastic issue! The previous episode summaries keep suggesting that Emma Frost has been murdered. Was Jean able to revive her, or just the last moments of her life?

[spinarakboi]

No they said she was alive... but Wolverine might not know Emma is alive either.. that's what i thought anyway.

[Hellion]

Originally posted by Tha Wolverine

See the reason why I said that Sabretooth shouldn't be there because after what happened in Weapon X 9 it seems that Sabes wants to stick around there. So him being in the Hellfire Club seems a little out of place. But then again X-Men don't make sense sometimes and this issue is one of them.

Creed left WX and told Dr Winsdor that "you don't want me to come back". Meaning he left, all be it for a brief period, we know he will be back. So Creed's appearance he was perfect. Although it would have been nice to see him get his hair extentions between WX and his appearance in NX. :D

[crozack]

Awesome to hear some primarily positive things about Bachalo. He's the greatest x-artist ever, imo. I love everything about his work.

But, that being said, I think it was a great issue but, again, I don't do that whole deconstructing a story stuff. I understand what Grant was trying to do with the issue but, damn, when Anthony Z puts into words, that's just complicated.

Good review though.

[WEAPONX7284]

Bachelo's art is pretty damn good in this issue. Favorite panel would have t'be Logan sittin' there with the bottle a' "Jake" Daniels, Old No. 4, tellin' Summers t'come over for a drink. Bacheo's in Ultimate was terrible. Ultimate War wasn't bad. This is far better.
Lookin' forward t'seein' where Morrison takes these characters. .

[iceman06]

Grant Morrison writes the perfect Hellfire Club...

Yes, a Victorian-themed mutant strip club is exactly what the Hellfire Club is all about. Nope, I can't do it. Despite how much I agree with the rest of the review, I can't convince myself that this is how Sebastian Shaw and the Hellfire Club should be written. Sebastian Shaw, whose company builds Sentinels, all of a sudden chooses any mutant who can pay over society's elite whether they be human or mutant. Unless there are mutants with no loyalty to humans in Congress and all the rich and powerful families have mutants who don’t care about their human family members lined up as heirs, Shaw's made a very strange decision regarding the direction of the club. So are Brian Braddock and Tony Stark no longer welcome? If there's a good explanation, and I mean one better than "GM's great writing makes up for whatever doesn't make sense" or "things change," I'm honestly more interested in that than Weapon Plus or anything that has to do with Logan's past. "We're all victims of the same brave new world," but now, Sebastian Shaw, one of my favorite villians, is just a pimp. It's a shame when things like knowledge and memory interfere with enjoying a good story. Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed the story a great deal, but the unnecessary and illogical changes are distracting. Sometimes, I wish GM's NXM were my 1st and only comics because I know how good the writing is.

[Justclowes]

This issue was good i like the fact for once it wasn't focused on the kids or Jean & Emma it's about the (X-MEN). Cyclops has always been my favorite character & i think Morrison has hardly used him in his run so far. The only thing i didn't really like is Bachello's art for me at times it looks a bit to blocky & way to much black ink is used (I thought the same when he did his original uncanny run, ultimate x-men & ultimate war) but i will say the jack daniels bottle was great...........made me want a glass of jack daniles & coke after reading it (Yum):)

[Michael Fisch]

The only issue I had with this one is Cyke's visiting the Hellfire Club. Why on earth would he go there of all places...knowing how much he suffered at their hands? And chatting aimicably with Sebastian Shaw? Sorry--don't buy it. I can't believe that Scott thought so low of himself to find himself there. Why didn't he visit Harry's Hideaway? Also, did anyone else think that Sabes was a little soft in this issue? I can't imagine him ever sulking off after a dressing down like Shaw gave him.

Other than that, an excellent issue.

[Gat0r-ManX]

man.. this issue is fun and hilarious

and i LOVE BACHALO'S ART

[DiamondPaladinX]

As with the masses, I too believe this issue was yet another outstanding issue from Morrison, if not one of his best, perhaps even HIS best. The direction of the story was crystal-clear, and the conversation between Scott and Logan seemed brilliant, truly showing their similarities, yet their differences. As one poster said, the opposites on the same field.

Though I must ask a question which seems rather silly...when in the heck did Sebastian Shaw come back to life? Last I remember, he was killed by his son Shinobi Shaw so he could join the Upstarts back in the early 90s.

[Jim Learning]

Originally posted by DiamondPaladinX
Though I must ask a question which seems rather silly...when in the heck did Sebastian Shaw come back to life? Last I remember, he was killed by his son Shinobi Shaw so he could join the Upstarts back in the early 90s.
Sebastian Shaw came back in X-Force #47. He later appeared in X-Man, Cable, X-Men (2nd series), and some other issues I can't remember right now. Prior to New X-Men #142, Shaw was last seen in X-Treme X-Men #6-9.

[DiamondPaladinX]

How exactly DID he come back then?

[Daniel J Ciccaglione]

Originally posted by Hellion


Creed left WX and told Dr Winsdor that &quot;you don't want me to come back&quot;. Meaning he left, all be it for a brief period, we know he will be back. So Creed's appearance he was perfect. Although it would have been nice to see him get his hair extentions between WX and his appearance in NX. :D
I took it as he is staying really. Like saying what Winsdor was thinking in his mind. We know Sabretooth will leave sometime doesn't mean he left right then. I mean you could read what Winsdor was thinking in that panel. Why would Sabretooth leave when no one knows that his blocks are down. He could kill them all in the compound and leave afterwards.

[TurdFerguson]

Originally posted by DiamondPaladinX
How exactly DID he come back then?

First of all, it was X-Force #48 in which Shaw first came back. He began kidnapping all the kids in X-Force, and he brainwashed them with Tessa (now Sage)'s help and they all attacked Cable in X-Force 50. Shaw explained his ressurrection only by simply saying that when Shinobi tried to kill him, Shinobi failed.

Off this assumption, I'm going to say that Sebastien Shaw never actually died, but that would be retarded because the Gamesmatster (upstarts leader dude) who knows everything awarded points to Shinobi for killing his father, but Gamesmaster would have known if Shaw wasn't dead and . . . ugh. Continuity Headache.

[fitzybaby]

I haven't picked up this ish yet, could somebody tell me what the END LINE on Weapon Plus was about?

[clancynut]

I really enjoyed this issue it cleared up alot of my complaints about his Morrisons run it is also giving cyke a personality and possibly leading toward some kind of reconciliation between him and Jean

though shaws telepathy was a little bit odd

[Hellion]

Originally posted by Tha Wolverine

I took it as he is staying really. Like saying what Winsdor was thinking in his mind. We know Sabretooth will leave sometime doesn't mean he left right then. I mean you could read what Winsdor was thinking in that panel. Why would Sabretooth leave when no one knows that his blocks are down. He could kill them all in the compound and leave afterwards.

Well Creed said "I'm outta here an' you get t' keep yer dirty little secret--right, doc? Everythin' works out nice for everybody. That is, unless--I come back." I don't see how that could be taken any other way. So Creed being in NX seems totally possible. We will have to agree to disagree on this on.

[Anthony Zisa]

Originally posted by iceman06
Yes, a Victorian-themed mutant strip club is exactly what the Hellfire Club is all about. Nope, I can't do it. Despite how much I agree with the rest of the review, I can't convince myself that this is how Sebastian Shaw and the Hellfire Club should be written. Sebastian Shaw, whose company builds Sentinels, all of a sudden chooses any mutant who can pay over society's elite whether they be human or mutant. Unless there are mutants with no loyalty to humans in Congress and all the rich and powerful families have mutants who don’t care about their human family members lined up as heirs, Shaw's made a very strange decision regarding the direction of the club. So are Brian Braddock and Tony Stark no longer welcome?

I've seen people in this thread and over in the discussion thread in the XI forum talk about humans suddenly not being welcome, and I'm not quite sure where this argument is coming from. Nowhere in the issue does it say that the Hellfire Club is now a mutants-only establishment. The only line that comes close is Shaw's "[this club] is a haven for mutants with money to spend," but that doesn't denote to me that it is ONLY for mutants.

The analogy that most strikes me is that of a gay bar. Gay bars are havens for gay people to interact with other gay people, not having to worry that small-minded people are going to intrude and ruin their evening. However, I doubt a straight person who is looking to spend some money is going to be thrown out, simply because they are straight. I see Morrison's version of the Hellfire Club as something along those lines. It's a place where mutants can have some drinks, burn some cash, and not have to worry about humans who hate them ruining their night. However, if a human wants to drink there, and has the money to spend (which seems to be the key denominator as far as Shaw is concerned), I doubt he or she will be turned away.

--acz

[Daniel J Ciccaglione]

Originally posted by Hellion


Well Creed said &quot;I'm outta here an' you get t' keep yer dirty little secret--right, doc? Everythin' works out nice for everybody. That is, unless--I come back.&quot; I don't see how that could be taken any other way. So Creed being in NX seems totally possible. We will have to agree to disagree on this on.
I guess he could of left but still why does he have long hair. I hate how they change stuff around in issues.

[William Reverend Stryker]

Originally posted by Tha Wolverine

I guess he could of left but still why does he have long hair. I hate how they change stuff around in issues.
as Hellion pointed out, Creed said he was leaving, (I love this line!) and I have a gut feeling he'll be back in Weapon X#12! :sabes:

[Hellion]

Originally posted by Tha Wolverine

I guess he could of left but still why does he have long hair. I hate how they change stuff around in issues.

Hair extentions for the mutant on the go. ;)

[RisenAshes]

Does this ish only feature Scott and Logan?
Or does it have Hank, Emma, and Jean also?

From what everyone says, it sounds great! Gonna go pick it up ASAP!

[Daniel J Ciccaglione]

Originally posted by Hellion


Hair extentions for the mutant on the go. ;)

I can see that happening. But didn't he just look to much like the movie version or is it just me.?

Originally posted by RisenAshes
Does this ish only feature Scott and Logan?
Or does it have Hank, Emma, and Jean also?

From what everyone says, it sounds great! Gonna go pick it up ASAP!
Just Scott, Logan, Shaw, and Sabretooth.

[Supa]

Originally posted by Tha Wolverine

I guess he could of left but still why does he have long hair. I hate how they change stuff around in issues.

Bah, in the original Weapon X, Logan's hair had fully grown up in 20 minuts, so I guess Sabertooth could do the same in a small amount of time.

Oh hell, he looks so good under the Bachalo's pencil that I could find an explaination for almost everything :D

[Inferno256]

I couldn't agree more. I love Bachalo's style, and the character developement was awesome. And the parts with Sabretooth were hilarious.

[Daniel J Ciccaglione]

His art is good on Logan and Sabretooth because he makes them animal like. I don't like how he made Scott though. Yeah I guess He could of grew his hair real quick after all he has those enhancements now so growing it out could take no time. Man he must cut his hair alot huh.

[logansan]

i think shaw's telepathy might have been a second mutation. anyways it was my fav issue of the morrison run, and it was bachalos best art since his first run on gen x, rivaling quitely's

[TurdFerguson]

Why is everyone assuming that Shaw has telepathy? I thought it was very clear that he didn't read Cyke's mind himself, but rather had one of the telepaths read Scott's mind a relay the info to Sebastian.

Also, is Bacchalo around for a while? Or was this just a one-ish stand?

[ultimateX]

the main reason why i loved this issue was because of chris bachalo. im an avid fan way back since his stint in generation x and his work on death.

i love how he drew the jean look-a-like. sheesh! if jean was portrayed that way, maybe scott didnt fool around with emma (at least in their thoughts).

i cant wait for the next issue.

[citizenVXV]

when I read it I understood that the club entertainer on stage had telepathy and was relaying it to Shaw....I didn't even think that he might have telepathy till I read the boards...heh

[SpongeBob]

Originally posted by citizenVXV
when I read it I understood that the club entertainer on stage had telepathy and was relaying it to Shaw....I didn't even think that he might have telepathy till I read the boards...heh

That is what I was thinking too...especially when Shaw described how the girl(s) actually looked. I hope it isn't a second mutation...I am getting sick of everyone getting "new" powers just for the sake of the story...and Shaw being telepathic wouldn't take away or add anything to this issue

[MrHymes01]

LOVED IT. I'm also glad Chris B is back. NOW I can enjoy this.

[ronin_jw]

This has been one of the best.

[DaveCummings]

Originally posted by Perfect Methods
In my opinion, this is the best issue of Morrisons run. I was so giddy after reading it.

Whens the next issue again?

The Next issue will be out June 25th (it is a 2 issue month for New X-Men this month) It was originally going to be out next week but was pushed back a week I think to organize things slightly.

~Dave

[DaveCummings]

Originally posted by devin


Hunter: Age of Magic is an extension of Vertigo's Books of Magic title, and I enjoy it more than anything I've read from Marvel in a long time.

The covers look like paintings, maybe combined with some photography and or computer effects, but I bet he does some pencil work on them early on, for layouts. More importantly, it shows a style he is capable of that is quite different from his normal pencilling, which, like Anthony Zisa said, &quot;has remained generally consistent since his Generation X and Death work&quot;.

Actually I think Chris does all the work on those covers. I remember interviews with Chris talking about him learning stuff like Photoshop, so he can experiment with some of his work. And the Hunter:Age of Magic covers look like they had some photoshop work done.

It is like the final issue of Steampunk, Chris actually did some of the colors for the book. actually he colored them by painting directly with acrylic paints, somehting else he said he wanted to experiment with.

I hope that helps

[Daniel J Ciccaglione]

I don't think Shaw is telepathic either just his dancers and they just tell him what some of them are thinking. Like if a big shot comes in the dancer reads the guys mind Shaw then uses the info to his advange that is all. The dancer most likely told Shaw that Scott was here and that Emma messed with him mind.

[Hellion]

I'm with Tha Wolverine on this one, :O . The club is full of telepathic dancers, Shaw hasn't developed telepathy.

[melt]

I've just read the ish and it was awesome. The art was superb!!! The red motiff and style of the club was perfectly done. The writing was also great.

[Daniel J Ciccaglione]

Originally posted by Hellion
I'm with Tha Wolverine on this one, :O . The club is full of telepathic dancers, Shaw hasn't developed telepathy.
At least we agree on one thing. HAHAHAHA :LOL:

[FrodoLives]

Great issue. Bachalo is still great. And Wolverine was finnally in perfect character. Scott can't handle his whiskey:D Shaw is back! Sabey and Wolvie confronting each other while doing their "Bussiness" was hilarious.

[Lady_Nomad]

I just read it myself. I love the comic! The interplay between Logan and Scott is great! Logan just knows how to deal with other people sometimes. They do seem to be opposites, yet each trying to regain their humanity somehow.

And Scott falling over drunk is interesting... he managed to pull of the illusion of soberity until the last second. That shows how stubborn Scott is about his image.

I hope the next issue goes off as well.

[Will]

New X-Men #142 was a good issue and it had some great characterization. The transitions though, is what I'm having a bit of a problem with with Chris at the helm and a totally different setting which sets up a new story while not giving any answers to the murder at Xavier. While I like Chris Bachalo doing this story I wish they kept a good consistant solid artist like Phil to keep going instead of going ahead with the fill ins.

Maybe they'll get to that in the coming months as smaller subplots leading to the conclusion or something. Anyway Chris Bachalo does a really good, clean, clear job here probably mostly due to the fact that Tim Townsend is inking him again which is good. Sabertooth not going all crazy and rowdy was refreshing to see and it was actually a pretty cool/funny moment in the book.

I was hoping Wolverine would go back to his mostly black New X-Men costume but it seems like he will keep the more yellow outfit as a foreign affair type suit or something(I dunno). I never saw Cyclops written this way and its a unique take on such an established character to shake things up. I sort of like the way he is in the story so I'm curious to see where his relationship with Jean will turn into.

I look forward to the upcoming issues since Wolverine in NXM has been on the backburner for quite some time.

[Omar A. Safi]

I thought this issue was pretty good. I love how Morrison wrote the Hellfire Club. A strip-joint where the X-Men can go, now that's what we needed. I also enjoyed how they encountered Shaw and Creed but didn't get into a big brawl.

[heeeve]

This was by far one of bachalos best efforts. Excellent artwork, excellent story, my only problem is they made sabertooth seem like a wuss. What ever happened to the psycho that couldnt control himself at all? Ah well overall though great issue

[Cable2x]

One of the best comics I have read in a long time. My two favorite X-Men (1. Cyclops, 2. Wolverine) written magnificently, and the art was truly amazing. Thanks to all involved. Here's to hoping the rest of this arc is just as good (hey maybe even better). Hope Cyclops really kicks some butt.

[chad_outcast]

Just goes to show you don't need over-the-top action to have a great comic. I place this one up there with the best of Morrison's stuff on this book.

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

Loved this issue. And i've loved Morrison's entire run, but i LOVED this issue...eh, guess it's not as dramatic for me to love it as those who've said they don't like Morrison but loved it. But, see, i LOVED it (putting it in caps is the best i can do to differentiate it, folks). The issue had this strange Casablanca feel to it, because of the atmosphere and people who just kind of popped up (the title of the issue could just as easily have been "Everyone Comes to Shaw's"). The characterization and monologues were spot on and priceless...and the literal ******* contest between Logan and Creed was awesome. Especially the not at all subtle look-over Creed pulled. From his reaction, and past issues, i guess it's pretty clear now what makes Logan the "better man." heh heh...:cool:

And Cyclops going shot for shot with Wolverine? Awesome...and the ending was just great, with Logan's reassurances to Fantomex. And that last page! I swear..."Hic" is now going down as one of my favorite Morrison closing lines, right along with "Moo." :lol:

[Arno13]

I loved this issue ! It was like a dream to me. Morisson, Bachalo, Fantomex. What more could I ask ?

[heeeve]

great issue just cant wait till the next one

[Storm_1118]

Man it seems like EVERYONE loved this issue...but I HATED IT! I was bored throughout the whole issue. I kept waiting to see some cool characters how up, but the whole issue took place at the Hellfire Club! This, to me, is Morrison's WORST issue yet. It was just boring. Nothing really seemed to happen. And I am not a fan of Bachalo's art at all. I thought he was only doing the covers and then I opened the book. Oh well...and I still don't understand the difference between Weapon Plus and Weapon X. An earlier post said that it was stated in one sentence...could someone let me know what that was?

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

Look back at the issue, Wolverine mentions Weapon X splitting from the Weapon Plus program...