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View Full Version : CAN OF WORMS #2: GOT MILX?


Eric J. Moreels
Aug 27, 2003, 11:17 am
<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/canworms_logo.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/canworms_logot.jpg" align=left alt="Can of Worms logo"></a>Welcome to a special edition of Can of Worms here at ComiX-Fan wherein we delve into the confusion surrounding now former Silver Surfer and Wake The Dead artist Mahathir Buang, better known as Milx... or is it Mo_o? Or both? Well, that will be for you to decide. This column seeks to present the facts of this bizarre situation as they stand in as chronological an order as possible with the intent of letting you come to your own conclusions.

But first, the all-important...

<center>RUMOUR WARNING</center>

Before reading on, we need to make it clear to all that the material contained within this column is presented as rumour, unless expressly stated otherwise, and is intended for entertainment purposes only. Legitimate news can be found in ComiX-Fan's News (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=2) and Features (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=3) sections. If you reprint any information from this column, please clearly label it with an appropriate warning and provide a link back.

This column is brought to you by X-World Comics (http://www.x-worldcomics.com/yourvirtualstore/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=346) and their X-Clusive Creator Edition signed comic books (http://www.x-worldcomics.com/yourvirtualstore/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=346). Want a certified JLA/Avengers #1 signed by Kurt Busiek, or perhaps a certified Transformers/G.I. Joe #1 signed by John Ney Rieber? If you do, then look no further than X-World (http://www.x-worldcomics.com/yourvirtualstore/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=346)!

The hornet's nest of controversy surrounding Milx's recent "disappearance", which forced both Marvel Comics and IDW Publishing to replace the artist on those titles (see 'MILX-ING IN ACTION' (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21068)), has been stirred up again with Milx himself posting on ComiX-Fan's forums (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?postid=595670#post595670) and speaking with the Newsarama (http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5333) Web site declaring fanfic writer Mo_o to be a fraud, despite some members of the fan fiction community having come forward saying Mo_o and Milx are one and the same.

To refresh everyone's memory, it began with Mo_o having posted details of the new Silver Surfer series on the message board of fanfic group Marvel 2000 (http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=92629;article=4166;title=Marvel%202000;date_query=1053911385), which he wrote for, in late May, before the new book had been publicly announced.

"I know it's been a very long time since I have been able to contact you; internet providers is one reason, work load is another. And apparently that workload I've once mentioned in Epic? Yep, it's taking most of my time. So, as a friend and colleague I'm want to ask 2 favours from you guys:

1) Please take me off FF and all the projects that I still have on M2K. I know it's been months past since I've been able to work on them and the prose is still with me, unfinished because I still have to complete my work on that epic title. I cannot do it anymore. It's been a fun ride, and many great moments, but I'm deeply sorry that I can no longer carry the responsibility of writing the further adventures of my favorite team. I infinitely as much sorry and ashamed to those who I worked with, who had future plans with concerning the FF and other projects in overall.

2) Please spread the word to the others I am working with. I trust you guys at M2K to do this for me, for I have no more time to do so.

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/covers/ssv4-01.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/covers/ssv4-01t.jpg" align=right alt="Silver Surfer (4th series) #1"></a>Thanks for the great year working with you guys. Don't forget to catch me on the Silver Surfer this June."

In a follow-up post (http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=92629;article=4179;title=Marvel%202000;date_query=1053911385), Mo_o offered up a link between the two aliases, saying, "Just check over the credits for Silver Surfer for Marvel Comcis {sic} and you'll obviously find my credits there under a VERY obvious pen name. :) Oh, and it's coming on July."

After the series and Milx's involvement were publicly announced, one Marvel 2000 member posted an announcement on the M2K board (http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=92629;article=4388;title=Marvel%202000;date_query=1055705788) that one of their own had "made good".

"Check out www.newsarama.com for an interview with one of our own who made good. Mo_o (going by the pseudonym Milx) talks about his upcoming artistic run on Silver Surfer for Marvel. Go read it, and then brag to all your friends that you knew him when."

Fast forward to this month, and prior to Silver Surfer editor Tom Brevoort's announcement that Milx had gone missing, Mo_o was back posting on the M2K message board (http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=92629;article=4626;title=Marvel%202000;date_query=1060895870) in early August.

"I got the time to finally continue my fanfic whismies, so I've returned with my goodies... er, goods, whatever," he said in one post (http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=92629;article=4640;title=Marvel%202000). "It's good to be back. I've managed to grab hold of my old series back, as well as an Alternate M2K title that hasn't been moving for a long while... did I tell you it's good to be back? Oh yeah, I did."

Following Brevoort's announcement, Mo_o made another post (http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=92629;article=4673;title=Marvel%202000) in an effort to clear the air.

"Before people start attacking me (AGHAGH! POO! FLYING POO!), I have no real plans to quit just yet. One of the reasons why I've returned to M2K is that I'm having what we can call a very hard time catching detail. I thought maybe going back to writing may give me some inspiration.

So, yes, it isn't very professional not simply end up 'missing', but I still want to cling to my job. That, and I do have contact problems nowadays.

I better go back to my drawing table then and stop writing for now; no offence, but seeing as how this is getting bigger by the minute, I think it's better if I stick offline for awhile and focus my energies on the drawing. One more favour; please DO NOT make this a topic for the community's talkabouts; I would NOT like this embarassment to be something I'll be remembered for.

Thanks for the opinions. You can resume the poo-throwing =) "

After ComiX-Fan reported on the artist's apparent resurfacing, Wake The Dead writer Steve Niles sent ComiX-Fan an e-mail claiming that the M2K posts were not by Milx. "I know him pretty well, having written several thousand e-mails back and forth and I can say without a doubt, that's not Milx," Niles said.

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/previews/ind/300_wake01.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/previews/ind/300_wake01t.jpg" align=right alt="Wake The Dead #1 preview"></a>One of Mo_o's fellow fanfic writers, Cory Wiegel, disagreed, saying, "Well, that really doesn't make any sense... personally the typing style seems just like his, not to mentioned he seemed to remember an old {fanfic} project we had planned."

Marvel 2000 fanfic group chief David Wheatley responded to ComiX-Fan's subsequent inquiries by saying, "As far as I am aware the two of them are one and the same. If they are indeed two separate people then the timing of what's going down has been very coincidental. And if he is a different person then Mo_o has strung along a good amount of people. From the dealings I have had with him over the last year, he's been up front with me and I've appreciated that."

"All I can say is how it went down. He stood down from his various fiction series because he was about to get very busy with what was going on in his professional life, which as I understood he was an artist. Then it came to light he was Milx and that answered a lot of questions, and we wished him well. A couple of weeks ago, maybe less, he wrote to me asking if he could do some specials of his Moon Man, which is his series at M2K. I naturally said yes, because the guy has talent and we decided it'd be fun to play it close to the chest and he did some cryptic things on our message board, but a few of our more discerning writers figured it was him. Then he came clean. A few days later the news came through about what had happened and it was almost certainly a Neo moment."

"What happened between himself, Marvel and IDW, I don't know. I'm not going to ask, because it's not my business and if he wants to tell me then fine. The reason I feel comfortable to comment is that I don't know what's going on any more than the rest, because if he did tell me, I wouldn't tell anyone unless he said I could. My concern is him. People can think what they like, I just hope he has someone he can talk to about whatever happened and is happening. He was a good writer, a good artist and, if they are indeed the same person, the industries loss is fan-fictions gain."

ComiX-Fan then approached both Milx and Mo_o with an offer to go on the record about what happened. ComiX-Fan received a reply from Mo_o declining the offer and instead asking us to run an article declaring Mo_o to be a fraud in an attempt to stop being bothered by this problem, preferring not to have both fanfic and professional communities doubting him. ComiX-Fan refused, of course, as such a thing would be unethical, not to mention that it would have - and subsequently has - caused more problems than it solved.

Mo_o also reportedly discussed the matter with his fanfic colleagues on a private members only discussion list, asking them to "cover" for him when he went public with the declaration.

"It saves me all the trouble. So please, pass this along to your fellow fanfic colleagues and please inform them so. I don't like the idea of pinpointing my fanfic self as a fraud but right now, amidst all the confusion and muck, I am afraid I have no choice."

Milx then subsequently proceeded to publicly declare Mo_o as a fake on ComiX-Fan's forums.

"Well, I better clear things up. I just spoken with Rich Johnson {sic}, and heck, after I've been away, lotsa talk back bout me and yes, I'm the real milx that vanished from earth surface, but I DON'T write fan fic. That'll clear everything bout Mo_o pretending to be me. (plus I can't write a story, my English just bad).

Okay, I dont know how in hell, Mo_o get to know evrything bout Silver Surfer gig, but yet, If he's an artist, he should have come with an artwork or such. Plus, what I know, I never had an electricity or phoneline connection problem stuff.

I left, due to the pressure and breakdown that I had. well, I'm welcome any feedback on this and I love to get Mo_o in here, to clear himself up (and my self)."

"Everyone talking bout the writing due to Mo_o is a fan fic writer! I never wrote anything ('cept for something in Malaysia)

Well, for now, I'm just finishing covers for Wake The Dead."

"Yes, Mo_o is indeed a fraud, sending emails to people bout me, which is he 'created'. I run down some check out, and this other 'milx' is frm Singapore."

"What can i say bout it, how unprofessional of me, handling tasks, by the time i am indeed emotionaly unstable. er.. that sound soo er.. nevermind.

and yeah, I did contact 'em by the time things gone complex. They got 'em self new artist and I'm pretty much 'ok' and 'not ok' with that. Yet they hold the power of the titles, they are indeed doing the right thing for the business. I'm not ok with me self, and by saying that frm time to time, won't help at all. What I do now is just move forward.

well, none to be blame here 'cept me. Life goes on for me."

That was followed up by the posting of an e-mail on the Comic Book Resources (http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=2729) Web site that Milx had sent to the various industry people he had been working. In the e-mail, the artist stated, in part, "First of all, I apologize for my unnecessary action of shutting down and running away from my responsibility. My action had affected everything, the project, others reputation and badly, myself. And by saying sorry over and over again won't do any good at this moment."

"It's should have been smooth ride for me, but due to my greediness and over confident in tackling tasks in hands had lead me into this. People have been put their trust to me, and I wasted them away. A perfect mirror of my life. I run away when ever there's a breakdown facing me. Especially, to Steve Niles, the man that gives everything to me, chances and trust."

"The very reason I wrote this is, I don't want to run away anymore. I going to face the consequences of the action that I made. I know that, from now on, nobody going to trust me or even pitch me a project but let me settle everything up. Sadly my life end up this way."

Milx also discussed potential legal action on Marvel's part for a possible breach of contract, as well as offering apologies to all involved.

The saga didn't end there, however, as the artist again declared his fanfic alias to be a fraud in a recent face-to-face interview at the Newsarama (http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5333) Web site.

"To Mo_o, I know he is somewhere around this region, somebody I know even. Nice stunt, man, but you worsened the whole situation. Go to a forum and show your artwork."

"I am not Mo_o. I don't write fan-fic."

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/previews/0703/silver_surfer_preview.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/previews/0703/silver_surfer_previewt.jpg" align=right alt="Silver Surfer #1 preview"></a>Milx followed this up with another post here at ComiX-Fan (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?postid=597446#post597446), wherein he said, "Finally, i met Ben personally to clear things up. Well guys, now, let me concerntrate on my work and I should be apologizing by keep on drawing and don't miss my deadlines.

one more thing to do, gotta track Mo_o! :mad: "

Avengers 2000 fan fic group (http://www.ironrodstudio.com/av2000/) chief Gary Dreslinski then entered the debate, as Mo_o had previously written for his group, suggesting that Milx "check the mirror first" to "save the legwork" on his search for Mo_o.

"Lying is far from the road to recovery.

I'm rather astonished that anyone would be naive enough to think that he's doing anything other than trying to save his butt at this point.

I'd be a lot more sympathic, as I told him in the email I sent off when I first heard this had happened, if he had mentioned that he was doing this to people *outside* of the Marvel 2000 message list. I'm sure some of them are going to cover for them.

But trust me on this, Milx is Mo_o. Hell, he apparently forgot that the signature on his old Mo_o posts was "Got Mo_o?" and replicated it for the Milx name.

I was behind you man, and then you pull this... it's completely beneath you."

Dreslinski then gave ComiX-Fan a little more insight into the situation from his perspective.

"I wish I knew what he was pulling... but I suspect that Milx is trying to get out of the hole he dug himself into.

I saw some of Mo_o's art *before* Milx came onto the scene, and believe me, that's the same guy.

He must be *really* close to not only know about the Silver Surfer gig before anyone else, but also know when to time the disappearance.

So what we're dealing with is either the most elaborate set up to trick a *fan fic* audience... OR a guy feeling really exposed right now and trying to get out of it.

He's taking a situation that could have been laughed off, and just digging himself in deeper."

One ComiX-Fan poster noted that the Milx who posted at ComiX-Fan "spoke" in broken english, whilst the Milx who was interviewed by Newsarama did not, a point seized upon by Dreslinski.

"Not surprising. He wanted to stay consistant after all. He didn't do a very good job of that, since the story has so many holes you could drive trucks through them, even if you *didn't* know that just before this came out Mo_o made several statements that it was about to happen.

There are a number of people who can verify this. That is unless they decide to protect him.

I like the guy. I really do.

But I just can't rally around a lie.

You have *nothing* to be ashamed of with your fanfic work. NOTHING. It was really good stuff. Coming back, well yeah, that was a miscue. You should have just come back under a different name, in a different group, and no one would have been the wiser. Instead it was almost like you wanted to be found. Either that or you honestly forgot how many people are in both fanfic and the general comics community.

Just own up to who you are, and move on. You can have a solid career ahead of you, or a quick slide into being a punchline.

This is where character matters. You got caught going back to fanfic for a rest, and are now covering yourself.... like I told you, your first priority is to yourself.

But you can't look after your interests with a lie. It will only make things worse."

"I have no doubt it's actually Milx. He said he was going to do it, and then the next thing you know, posts like this and interviews start popping up.

If you're a member of any other comics oriented group out there that is discussing this - Newsarama, Comics Resources, Yournamehere.com (made that last one up) feel free to repost my statements from the long message above.

Or this one: 'You owe it to yourself to be honest. People will understand. They will not understand or respect your position if you're not the one who's coming forward, and coming clean.'"

On Wednesday morning, David Wheatley posted on the M2K board (http://disc.server.com/discussion.cgi?id=92629;article=4697;title=Marvel%202000) to affirm his group's stance on the matter.

"M2K does not endorse what is going on at the moment. If it did there would be quotes from the staff list about what's going on. That's private access. This is a public forum anybody can use it.

Do we know what's going on? Oh yes. Hell, you look at all available sources and you can work it out for yourself. There's a very fine line being walked here, and those who know can approve or disapprove or whatever. Won't stop me letting Mo_o write for M2K. May stop people reading his stuff, but that's their loss."

The situation has generated much discussion in the fanfic community, given that several fanfic writers had initially come to Milx's defense believing him to be Mo_o only to be caught completely off-guard by what was to follow.

So, after all this, are Milx and Mo_o one and the same? Well, that's a topic that's still up for much debate. The whole truth of the matter may never be uncovered, however this situation has certainly delegated itself a place in the annals of comic book history, if only for its bizarre nature.

mattereaterlad
Aug 27, 2003, 12:03 pm
The only real question in all of this is if Newsarama knows the truth and is lying to people (as others were asked to do) or if they were duped.

Bradmon
Aug 27, 2003, 12:21 pm
Hi, I'm sort of a semi-poster here, back when it was still called X-Fan. It's been awhile and I'm back to speak my mind. Anyway, I'm Brad Horton. I also write fanfic at M2K and have exchanged emails with Mo_o from time to time. This...just doesn't seem like something he'd do. Granted, we don't really KNOW someone based on emails, typing styles, etc. alone. Personally, as an aspiring artist, I felt quite ****** that Milx/Mo_o/whoever-he-is-today walked away from the job other struggling artists (whether they were just breaking in or working for an obscure publisher) might have had the chance to work on. I'm not judging Mo_o here for why he left, but the manner in which he did it...and now all the reports and rumors circulating about faux-Milx aliases...it's just a big mess. I'm sure he didn't want any of this to happen. Usually, I come to ComiX-Fan looking for news, reviews, and other positive stuff...and that's what it's pretty much known for. Comics are supposed to be fun.

This...this is just drama and media exploitation. I know Eric has a job to do, but the line has to be drawn somewhere.

mattereaterlad
Aug 27, 2003, 12:35 pm
Originally posted by Bradmon
This...this is just drama and media exploitation. I know Eric has a job to do, but the line has to be drawn somewhere.

I quite agree. The line needs to be drawn at the truth.

The drama, the exploitation, is all Mo_o. You know that, having seen his posts to the M2K mailing list.

I can't believe he's doing this either, but IMHO, he just needs to come out with the truth. Or at very least stop lying. He could have come out with the statement he did to Newsarama, sans the fanfic stuff, and this would probably be a moot issue.

Fetsur
Aug 27, 2003, 12:53 pm
Milx had a nervous breakdown. WHO CARES about whether he is this fanfic writer?! His worst known "crime" is missing a few deadlines, for health reasons. It's bad enough that his condition is being reported as headlines on comic book news sites. X-Fan would do best to leave him alone.

Printing his real name isn't a good idea either, IMO.

Anthony Lucynski
Aug 27, 2003, 01:04 pm
His real name is a matter of public record, used in the solicitation for Silver Surfer that was leaked from Marvel's website awhile back.

And it's ComiX-Fan, try to keep up.

Anthony L

mattereaterlad
Aug 27, 2003, 01:06 pm
Originally posted by Fetsur
Milx had a nervous breakdown. WHO CARES about whether he is this fanfic writer?!

He obviously does.

His worst known &quot;crime&quot; is missing a few deadlines, for health reasons. [/b]

Actually his worst crime might be an actual breach of contract. But that would be for Marvel to decide.

It's bad enough that his condition is being reported as headlines on comic book news sites. X-Fan would do best to leave him alone.

In this case, he was the one who came out with the statements to these sites, and gave them that information.

Printing his real name isn't a good idea either, IMO. [/B]

His real name has been out there for quite some time, and honestly is probably the only one he isn't going to deny. ;)

I think I've pinned down what's bugged me so much about this, and its that this is just so disappointing behavior from him. The lies, the asking other people to lie... there was just no reason for him to do it.

Anthony Lucynski
Aug 27, 2003, 01:27 pm
Just to clarify about sensationlism and such as it has been suggested: We wouldnt even be doing this if we werent being contacted by all parties involved and asked to report this. We didnt go looking for this story, and we certainly didnt send any reporters to any newsites to try to score exclusives or anything, and make a bigger deal out of it than it was before. We reported based on information GIVEN to us, and we continue to do that. Other sites? The ones that didnt give a crap until the controversy came to our site? Them's the ones that are sensationalizing it. We simply endevour to take the information given to us, and make sense out of it all.

Anthony L

PsiWar
Aug 27, 2003, 04:10 pm
his last name Buang.

do you know that there is a Filipino word that sounds just like his last name?

the word can be spelled like his last name too or with a "w" (buwang)

it means crazy...psychotic crazy.

ReaperFett
Aug 27, 2003, 05:05 pm
Interesting column. Still don't have a clue what's going on. Is this how the Spidey clone saga was in the 90s? :)

atxbomber
Aug 27, 2003, 05:56 pm
Originally posted by mattereaterlad
The only real question in all of this is if Newsarama knows the truth and is lying to people (as others were asked to do) or if they were duped.

With the way a certain Newsarama reporter has been presenting himself lately, I'd certainly believe either explanation.

Originally posted by ReaperFett
Is this how the Spidey clone saga was in the 90s? :)

Yes. Unfortunately. :crazy:

CylverSaber
Aug 27, 2003, 06:04 pm
Originally posted by Eric J. Moreels
ComiX-Fan received a reply from Mo_o declining the offer and instead asking us to run an article declaring Mo_o to be a fraud in an attempt to stop being bothered by this problem, preferring not to have both fanfic and professional communities doubting him. ComiX-Fan refused, of course, as such a thing would be unethical, not to mention that it would have - and subsequently has - caused more problems than it solved.

Mo_o also reportedly discussed the matter with his fanfic colleagues on a private members only discussion list, asking them to &quot;cover&quot; for him when he went public with the declaration.

&quot;It saves me all the trouble. So please, pass this along to your fellow fanfic colleagues and please inform them so. I don't like the idea of pinpointing my fanfic self as a fraud but right now, amidst all the confusion and muck, I am afraid I have no choice.&quot;
Ok, this has officially become sad. I think he's been embarassed and exposed enough as liar (and a bad one at that). This story's dead, IMO. Let's all move on.

magiklover
Aug 27, 2003, 06:08 pm
Originally posted by ReaperFett
Interesting column. Still don't have a clue what's going on. Is this how the Spidey clone saga was in the 90s? :)


It was worse... way worse

Iceman (Trevor)
Aug 27, 2003, 07:02 pm
I think there is eough eople complaining lately. I say let ComiXfan write anything of revelance. I for one read most of this info somewhere else, but Eric is trying to do his job. If you don't like it just wait a littlebit and they'll write something you do. If they could please everyone they would be in the UN teaching them how to, as well.

Jordan T. Maxwell
Aug 27, 2003, 07:58 pm
What, a comic book news site reporting comic book news? How shocking! :rolleyes:

I find it most disturbing that considering the behavior of certain people in this situation, OUR ethics are the ones being called into question. Where's Paul Harvey to tell the rest of the story when you need him?

Marc-Oliver Frisch
Aug 27, 2003, 08:14 pm
Originally posted by mattereaterlad
The only real question in all of this is if Newsarama knows the truth and is lying to people (as others were asked to do) or if they were duped.

Newsarama printed a face-to-face interview with a creator. It's not exactly their job to double-check whether the interviewee's personal information is correct or not, you know, or to "expose" them if there is a feeling that it's not.

The real questions here are:

(1) Can you PROVE that Milx is lying? (No, you can't, apparently, which doesn't stop you from strongly implying it.)

(2) SHOULD you prove that they're one and the same, provided you could? (No, you shouldn't, because the only "good" it would do would be to damage Milx's reputation further.)

So, from where I'm standing, this article is in a bit of bad form.

Its only function is to imply that a creator is a liar (because, hey, some guys on a fanfic message board -- who may have had their egos bruised in the process because they were eager to "confirm" the poster's identity early on -- say so), when his only real "crime" was to be unable to honor his agreement with two publishers, for which he already apologized and took the blame.

--
Marc-Oliver Frisch

Dave Harris
Aug 27, 2003, 08:33 pm
So, from where I'm standing, this article is in a bit of bad form.
Huh? All parties involved, including Milx, wanted something to be said on the matter. So an article was put together that reports on the events of the past week without making judgment calls or implying. It is comprised of quotes from people involved, links so that posters can see for themselves, and comments by people who might be able to shed light on things. If you come away with the implication that Milx is lying, it's a result of your read on recent events, not us badmouthing.

Eric J. Moreels
Aug 27, 2003, 08:50 pm
Originally posted by Marc-Oliver Frisch
So, from where I'm standing, this article is in a bit of bad form.

Well I can't see how, Marc, as all it does is go back and cover all the facts of this situation as they happened. We make no claims or suggestions, but point out that it's up to you, the reader, to draw your own conclusions from it.

mattereaterlad
Aug 27, 2003, 09:25 pm
Originally posted by Marc-Oliver Frisch


Newsarama printed a face-to-face interview with a creator. It's not exactly their job to double-check whether the interviewee's personal information is correct or not, you know, or to &quot;expose&quot; them if there is a feeling that it's not. [/b?

Just want to make sure I understand this correctly, since no one else has mentioned this - are you actually saying that it is not the job of a reporter to make sure they have their facts straight? Maybe that wasn't your intent, but that's what you ended up saying, considering that a good part of that interview had to do with the personal information in question.



The real questions here are:

(1) Can you PROVE that Milx is lying? (No, you can't, apparently, which doesn't stop you from strongly implying it.)

They listed the facts of matter, in chronological order. I on the other hand am implying nothing when I say that he's lying.
Reading the part of the email Eric shared in the article should be enough to convince even the most skeptical person of that fact. I have no clue why you would even take the position that he wasn't.


(2) SHOULD you prove that they're one and the same, provided you could? (No, you shouldn't, because the only &quot;good&quot; it would do would be to damage Milx's reputation further.)

You see, now that is a good point and one that has been dogging me since this began. On one hand, he's a good guy who's gone through a rough time, and really just needs some time and space to get his act together. On the other, he's using a public forum to decieve people, and worse, he's asking other people to take part in that deception.

My question about Newsarama stands. If they knew he was lying to them... and they went along with it, then I really have to wonder about their overall credibility. (Note: This is ME saying this, I'm sure that the staff of ComiX-Fan really doesn't want to open up that particular can of worms right now. :) ) If they'd lie about something ultimately *this* small... it does call into question the rest of what is said.

That said, I have friends, or at least friend, on the staff over there. So people will talk to people, and that will work out and I'm sure I'll get an answer one way or the other.[/quote]

Jordan T. Maxwell
Aug 27, 2003, 09:44 pm
reporting the facts as they occur...truly, bad form. :rolleyes: completely unlike using another news site's message boards to arrange an interview with an artist...

it amazes me that in all of this, OUR ethics are being called into question. Sometimes, this world makes me a little ill.

mattereaterlad
Aug 27, 2003, 09:51 pm
Don't worry about it Jordan.

Traditional tactic when you run out argument - blame the media and suddenly you've muddied the pool again.

Anthony Lucynski
Aug 27, 2003, 10:40 pm
Well, what strikes me as sensationlism is that Newsarama first only mentioned this in passing on the sidebar of their webpage, it wasnt important enought to even mention on their main page! Now all of a sudden it's exclusive news, with the real truth, yadda yadda yadda.

Weird.

Anthony L

Cory Wiegel
Aug 28, 2003, 12:34 am
Everyone likes scandals. What can you say? ComiX-Fan did a good job of covering the facts and a lot of people here were interested in what's up, but now some of these folks are just having a case of the "too cool to care" syndrome, which is far too late in coming.

CylverSaber
Aug 28, 2003, 07:34 am
I was interested. I also think everything of possible interest has come out, and the guy has been exposed as a liar to the point where it's just become sad. I think X-Fan's reporting has been excellent... I just think the story has reached its natural end. IOW, there's nothing left to see here folks. If anyone gives him another comics assignment after this... well, it should be with their eyes open.

Janus
Aug 28, 2003, 09:19 am
If Milx indeed had a breakdown, my thoughts and prayers are with him. Considering the art schedule of Ultimates, and the asinine production of Kevin Smith's last two Marvel minis, I hope Marvel doesn't pursue breach of contract litigation. I've never seen Moo (poo, doo, whatever his alias is), but I enjoyed Milx's art. In a faceless medium like the Internet things like this, (and Jess Lemon) are expected fare. Milx should give no further thought to the "controversy".

Mike Gonzalez
Aug 28, 2003, 09:46 am
I feel that we should await word from Marvel, and THEN cast judgement. Everything we've heard thus-far is just hearsay. Have you pulled an IP check on Milx' posts here and traced them to Malaysia? With help from M2K, you could retrieve the IP's from Mo_o and see if they match. The numbers don't lie.

Alan Lynch
Aug 28, 2003, 09:47 am
I feel sorry for the guy if he did indeed have a breakdown, but the whole affair hurts my head. Someone should put this all in a graphic novel or something.

Hoskani
Aug 28, 2003, 01:32 pm
Well after reading this article, there's no doubt in my mind that two guys are one in the same (not that there really ever was). Like Gary Dreslinski said in the article, there's holes in Mo_o/Milx's story big enough to drive trucks through them. Seriously, this is just ridiculous and the whole situation reminds me of my sister, a first-class habitual liar, who always tries to lie her way out of every little thing plus asks her friends to do so too. A parallel though totally different situations, but I know a lie when I see one and this is just pathetic.

On the other hand, I've experienced a breakdown myself and I know it's hard and sometimes you do/say things that just don't make any sense. Who knows, though, even THAT could be a lie. Maybe he just got lazy or decided he's big sh!t and can do what he wants with no consequences. That sort of thought process is usually associated with people who tell sensationalistic lies. Of course, if he really did have the breakdown then I feel for him in that respect, but IMO there's still no excuse for telling any lies. If you ask me, if he was well enough to "return" then he was well enough to have his head together and tell the truth. Again, maybe he just thinks he's big stuff and can fox his way out of a sticky situation. Maybe he's crazy. Who knows!

Personally this whole situation has just gotten so out of control. I think this article was good, though, as it presented ALL the facts and didn't attempt to hide or cover up anything and look at things solely from one person's point of view. It didn't tell you what to think, it left you to make up your own mind. It's obvious to me, though, that these "guys" are one and the same, so I'd say cut the bullsh!t, tell the truth, and whatever happens, happens. Breakdown or not, no one started this but him, he did it to himself.

Marc-Oliver Frisch
Aug 28, 2003, 06:11 pm
Originally posted by Eric J. Moreels

Well I can't see how, Marc, as all it does is go back and cover all the facts of this situation as they happened. We make no claims or suggestions, but point out that it's up to you, the reader, to draw your own conclusions from it.

Sorry, Eric, but I believe you're being disingenuous here. The article distributes the rumor that Milx is a liar, for no ther reason than because three guys posting on a message board said so.


Originally posted by mattereaterlad


Just want to make sure I understand this correctly, since no one else has mentioned this - are you actually saying that it is not the job of a reporter to make sure they have their facts straight? Maybe that wasn't your intent, but that's what you ended up saying, considering that a good part of that interview had to do with the personal information in question.


An interview is not an investigative article. As I understand it, Newsarama wanted to present the creator's own, personal stance on the rumors, and that's what they did. They're not responsible for whether the guy they interviewed is telling them ********.

It's highly unprofessional to suggest that someone you interviewed told you a lie about their personal activities, particularly when you consider yourself a journalist. (Apart from that, printing an interview does not mean that you agree with everything that's being said.)


Originally posted by mattereaterlad

Reading the part of the email Eric shared in the article should be enough to convince even the most skeptical person of that fact. I have no clue why you would even take the position that he wasn't.


The emails you cite were sent under the "Mo-o" moniker, according to the article, not by "Milx." I don't remember any point in the quoted messages where "Milx" admitted, directly or indirectly, to be "Mo_o." (And, frankly, I don't see any reason to believe some disgruntled yahoos I've never heard of over the guy himself, let alone a pressing necessity to actually print their opinions on the matter.)


Originally posted by mattereaterlad

You see, now that is a good point and one that has been dogging me since this began. On one hand, he's a good guy who's gone through a rough time, and really just needs some time and space to get his act together. On the other, he's using a public forum to decieve people, and worse, he's asking other people to take part in that deception.


And, of course, it's our job to expose this terrible crime of posting crap at a message board under a pseudonym and later being embarrassed by it.

What a fabulous victory for investigative journalism. Let him burn, the great deceiver!


Originally posted by Anthony Lucynski
Well, what strikes me as sensationlism is that Newsarama first only mentioned this in passing on the sidebar of their webpage, it wasnt important enought to even mention on their main page! Now all of a sudden it's exclusive news, with the real truth, yadda yadda yadda.


Personally, I'd like to see more rumor columns on all that behind-the-scenes venom between the various Comics News sites that you can see oozing from the stage every now and then.

--
Marc-Oliver Frisch

Drew Shirley
Aug 28, 2003, 09:44 pm
Originally posted by Marc-Oliver Frisch
It's highly unprofessional to suggest that someone you interviewed told you a lie about their personal activities, particularly when you consider yourself a journalist. (Apart from that, printing an interview does not mean that you agree with everything that's being said.)

When said interview is NOT an independant entity, but in corolation with a story such as this (and furthermore, it's being used as a method of DEFENSE by Milx. If there are inconsistensies with prior and subsequent takes on the issue, of course they are going to be brought up for discussion.), its only logical to assume that people are going to pick it apart.

It's not like he just gave a random interview, and people arbitraily started branding him a liar. That interview was used BY HIM to try and clear his name, and if people aren't happy with what they hear, don't you think they will compare and contrast stories and facts? All evidence points to the fact that something is up with this guy, and people are going to jump on that.

Cory Wiegel
Aug 28, 2003, 09:57 pm
Personally, I think Milx/Mo_o's a good guy, a good writer, and a good artist. I won't go along with his charade though, especially when it makes me and other folks at M2K who supported him look like idiots. Ontop of that, we're looking like disgruntled fanboy nerds who made up some bull[poopie] conspiracy just to get publicity. Hoookaaay... whatever. Like that matters to anyone of us.

Truth is, he e-mailed the M2K staff list (e-mails which can be viewed at the Yahoo! archive list) about what he was gonna do, as publicized here. If that isn't enough evidence or reason to believe our word, then go bite the curb for all I care.

Besides that, like I said to Eric, isn't it funny that what I said Mo_o's reasoning for abandoning Marvel would be was the exact same reasoning Milx's reasoning for abandoning Marvel was, even though Milx claims that he's not Mo_o? Coincidence? Could be, but there's seemingly sure been an awful lot of those in the situation as it is.

And like Marc said, we shouldn't give a [poopie] either way -- but building from that, I don't think we should go along with it and be suckered by our ignorance. Best wishes go out to the guy, especially during his time of personal troubles, but let's all just let it go instead of calling eachother liars and making up some right-wing conspiracy theories. It isn't really THAT important that we have to persecute an artist and waste hours of lives arguing about it, is it? [/hypocrite]

Jordan T. Maxwell
Aug 28, 2003, 10:32 pm
Marc...go into the article. Reread it. Find one paragraph, one sentence, one WORD where Eric calls Milx or Mo_o a liar. Find it, bring it here, present it to the populace.

Eric gathered the facts as they exist up to this point and presented them very straightly in chronological order with no embellishment or commentary. If the conclusion or implication of these facts is that these two are one and the same and lying...well, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck then it's obvious that the media is just trying to make it SEEM like a duck, right? :rolleyes:

Marc-Oliver Frisch
Aug 29, 2003, 08:30 am
Originally posted by Zooming Monkey Fire Blast

When said interview is NOT an independant entity, but in corolation with a story such as this (and furthermore, it's being used as a method of DEFENSE by Milx. If there are inconsistensies with prior and subsequent takes on the issue, of course they are going to be brought up for discussion.), its only logical to assume that people are going to pick it apart.


The issue was whether Newsarama are to blame for letting Milx voice his own take on the situation, not whether people should believe Milx.


Originally posted by Jordan T. Maxwell
Marc...go into the article. Reread it. Find one paragraph, one sentence, one WORD where Eric calls Milx or Mo_o a liar. Find it, bring it here, present it to the populace.


Don't waste my time. Find a dictionary and look up the term "imply."


Originally posted by Jordan T. Maxwell
Eric gathered the facts as they exist up to this point and presented them very straightly in chronological order with no embellishment or commentary.

The opinions of three guys on the internet who really think that soandso didn't tell the truth are not "facts," unfortunately.

What's next?

"Join us at the latest edition of our spectacular new rumor column 'A Crock from the Blog,' as Jethro H. Limbtwist from Brainfurt, Alabama, has some startling information on who REALLY wrote that WATCHMEN comic!"


Originally posted by Jordan T. Maxwell
If the conclusion or implication of these facts is that these two are one and the same and lying...well, if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck then it's obvious that the media is just trying to make it SEEM like a duck, right?

Read my lips: The guy is down, and he's being kicked in the guts one more time. I don't give a **** whether he told a lie on some message board I've never heard of.

This article has no benefit whatsoever apart from kicking a guy who's down and maybe cover the asses of those nincompoops who prematurely "confirmed" his identity on that message board, before his own statement so inconveniently contradicted their accounts.

--
Marc-Oliver Frisch

barryr
Aug 29, 2003, 10:35 am
Well, Cory's confirmation of what happened on the M2K list just makes it more clear to me that M2K is making a serious mistake for continuing to say they're going to allow him to write for them. If he has psychological problems, then by all means support him and say that when he's gotten his help and come clean about all his lies in a public manner, he can come back and write for us. But to just allow him to lie and continue to be treated as a member of the group displays an incredible lack of ethics on the part of M2K leadership. If I were a writer there, I'd be ashamed to be a part of this.

Barry

Eric J. Moreels
Aug 29, 2003, 12:04 pm
Originally posted by Marc-Oliver Frisch
Don't waste my time. Find a dictionary and look up the term &quot;imply.&quot;

If it implies anything, then that's based on what you gleaned from the column. All I did was piece together the various reports and quotes from the Web over. I didn't include any of my own thoughts on the subject, except for at the very end where I speculate that the truth of this bizarre situation may never be fully known.

Anthony Lucynski
Aug 29, 2003, 12:50 pm
Personally, I'd like to see more rumor columns on all that behind-the-scenes venom between the various Comics News sites that you can see oozing from the stage every now and then.


You'd be bored to tears. But if you want to pay me money, i'll see what I can scrounge up. ;)

BTW, Marc. We're not kicking Milx when he's down. He came to us with this, asked us to do this. We could of said no, right? But wouldnt that be not giving his side of the story? Everything that's printed in this article was approved from everybody. I dont think of it as kicking anybody while they are down, especially when we didnt even go looking for it.

Anthony L

Jordan T. Maxwell
Aug 29, 2003, 11:02 pm
Originally posted by Marc-Oliver Frisch


Don't waste my time. Find a dictionary and look up the term &quot;imply.&quot;

While i'm there, i'll skip ahead a few passages to "infer," just for you...

Originally posted by Marc-Oliver Frisch

The opinions of three guys on the internet who really think that soandso didn't tell the truth are not &quot;facts,&quot; unfortunately.

FORTUNATELY, quoting said opinion IS fact because they said it, we report it. We also reported what Milx and others said. Interesting that you seem to think it's fine for another site to run quotes without checking the veracity of their claims...and yet when Eric does it, it becomes somehow disingenuous. Huh...interesting how that happened

Originally posted by Marc-Oliver Frisch

Read my lips: The guy is down, and he's being kicked in the guts one more time. I don't give a **** whether he told a lie on some message board I've never heard of.

Then why are you still complaining about it?

Originally posted by Marc-Oliver Frisch

This article has no benefit whatsoever apart from kicking a guy who's down and maybe cover the asses of those nincompoops who prematurely &quot;confirmed&quot; his identity on that message board, before his own statement so inconveniently contradicted their accounts.

It organizes for people who do give a "****" about this situation the events of the situation. That. Is. All. Anything else that you read into it or paranoid motives you want to assign to it are yours and yours alone. So kindly take your own advice and stop wasting OUR time.

Peace.

Marc-Oliver Frisch
Aug 30, 2003, 08:18 am
Originally posted by Eric J. Moreels

If it implies anything, then that's based on what you gleaned from the column. All I did was piece together the various reports and quotes from the Web over. I didn't include any of my own thoughts on the subject, except for at the very end where I speculate that the truth of this bizarre situation may never be fully known.

An article doesn't require the author's own thoughts in order to imply something.


Originally posted by Anthony Lucynski


You'd be bored to tears. But if you want to pay me money, i'll see what I can scrounge up. ;)


Well, you got my two cents, for what that's worth.


Originally posted by Anthony Lucynski

Everything that's printed in this article was approved from everybody.


I see. I take it then you asked Mily to comment on the three latest statements by his so-called fanfic buddies, which call him a liar, but he declined?

Because, you see, that's the common practice in professional, unbiased circles, when statements calling people liars are publicized.


Originally posted by Jordan T. Maxwell

FORTUNATELY, quoting said opinion IS fact because they said it, we report it.


What you "report" are several emails bad-mouthing a creator, without anything particularly credible to back them up.


Originally posted by Jordan T. Maxwell

Interesting that you seem to think it's fine for another site to run quotes without checking the veracity of their claims...and yet when Eric does it, it becomes somehow disingenuous. Huh...interesting how that happened


Maybe I'm kind of old-fashioned, but I think there's an ever-so-slight difference between giving someone the chance to DEFEND themselves from EXISTING, potentially damaging rumors about themselves on one hand, and helping to circulate FURTHER such rumors on the other.


Originally posted by Jordan T. Maxwell

Then why are you still complaining about it?


I'm not. I'm complaining about is this column, which I find unethical and gratuitously harmful. Is my English that bad?


Originally posted by Jordan T. Maxwell

It organizes for people who do give a &quot;****&quot; about this situation the events of the situation. That. Is. All.

And it provides several messages from several people which call a particular creator, who is obviously already in trouble, a liar.


Originally posted by Jordan T. Maxwell

So kindly take your own advice and stop wasting OUR time.


Feel free to stop replying anytime you want to. I do it all the time.

--
Marc-Oliver Frisch

Anthony Lucynski
Aug 30, 2003, 12:29 pm
I see. I take it then you asked Mily to comment on the three latest statements by his so-called fanfic buddies, which call him a liar, but he declined?

Because, you see, that's the common practice in professional, unbiased circles, when statements calling people liars are publicized.

Marc, you know me for years. You know I would. And I did. Me and Milx had a long talk before this column even saw print, and he promises to keep me uptodate on the situation.

Come on man, give me some credit here ;)

Anthony L

Jordan T. Maxwell
Sep 1, 2003, 12:10 am
Obviously, our priorities and definitions of "ethics" differ. So i'll just tip my hat and say, good day sir. Besides, i've got columns that need a-writin. ;)

Y'all have fun.

Wolverine
Oct 15, 2003, 03:50 am
is this column continueing?

Eric J. Moreels
Oct 15, 2003, 03:54 am
Once we get enough material for another edition, then yes. We just need more people e-mailing us with rumours, gossip, and hearsay! ;)