THE TOP 40 X-CHARACTERS OF ALL TIME, PART 2: #30-21

[Al Harahap]

<img src="http://pages.sbcglobal.net/harahap/top40xc1.gif" border=0 align=left alt="Top 40 X-Characters"></a>The Top 40 X-Characters of All Time, part 2: #30-21
Compiled and edited by Jennifer de Vries and Al Harahap

If there's one aspect of the X-Men fans are passionate about, it's the characters. We all have attachments to these characters, whether they're ones we respect or ones who are simply our favourites. They are constructs -- mere words and pictures on a comic page. Yet many times we forget, and allow them access into our lives and emotions. Throughout the years, grown men have admitted crying to moving deaths, the most calm and collected fan can explode when something disagreeable happens to his/her favourites, and who hasn't witnessed heated debates over the better characters or fighters? So how dare we compile such "final" lists? It wasn't easy -- let me tell you -- much blood, sweat, and tears were involved. In honour of the X-Men's 40th anniversary, around twenty ComiX-Fan staff members have compiled, giving equal weight to the criteria of: originality, popularity, iconability, and impact, to bring you... the Top 40 X-Characters of All Time.

From our previous instalment, #40-31 (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21618):
#40: Longshot
#39: Magik (Illyana Rasputin)
#38: Forge
#37: Legion (David Haller)
#36: Deadpool (Wade Wilson)
#35: Destiny (Irene Adler)
#34: Sebastian Shaw
#33: Polaris (Lorna Dane)
#32: Madelyne Pryor
#31: Moira MacTaggert

And this week, we present to you #30-21:

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#30: SENATOR ROBERT KELLY
Created by: Chris Claremont & John Byrne

<img src="http://anotherpilotdown.net/Jennifer/Top40XC/30_21/Senator.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 40 X-Characters"></a>Who: United States Senator Robert Kelly was a major proponent in humanity's fight against the growing number of mutants. He basically saw these new species as a threat to national security. going so far as to lobby for the legislation called the Mutant Registration Act, which would take away the civil liberties and rights of all mutants. Because of his anti-mutant propaganda, the terrorist group called the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants made an assassination attempt on Kelly's life. Becayse of this, Kelly ultimately made a partnership with Sebastian Shaw, the Black King of the Hellfire Club and himself a mutant (though the Senator didn't know it at the time), to fund the construction of Sentinels. In a battle between the Sentinel called Master Mold and the X-Men, Kelly's wife, Sharon, was accidentally killed. This event further resolved the Senator's anti-mutant sentiments. The Senator then ran for the United States' Presidency on an anti-mutant platform, and once more became a target of the Brotherhood. The mutant called Pyro gave his life to save the Senator -- an event that led to his turnabout attitude and become supportive of mutant rights. Unfortunately, Kelly was branded a traitor by anti-mutant activists and assassinated.

Why: Senator Robert Kelly brought a whole new dimension into the X-books, and that is of politics -- not an easy feat for a character. But he did so, and successfully too. The Senator embodied the ignorance and fear of humanity towards mutants. He was a threat to the dream, fighting against the monstrosity of mutants, but focusing it on all mutants, not just the ones who deserved it. In this reagard, he was in essence the total antithesis of Moira MacTaggert. But with years of the buildup of his hate, his conversion into being pro-mutants proved that Xavier's dream can be realised and is worth fighting for. Dying as a martyr of the dream, he was shot by a human accusing him of treason against his kind. Thus clearly showing that humans were quite as able to perform monstrous acts as mutants, and proving beyond any reasonable doubt that any kind of security threat comes along out of hate, regardless of being human, mutant, or otherwise.

Entry by Jennifer de Vries & Al Harahap

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#29: JUBILEE (JUBILATION LEE)
Created by: Chris Claremont & Marc Silvestri

<img src="http://anotherpilotdown.net/Jennifer/Top40XC/30_21/Jubilee.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 40 X-Characters"></a>Who: Jubilation "Jubilee" Lee was a spunky Californian girl. But when her parents were murdered, her world came crashing down. Not wishing to remain a ward of the state, she fled, only to take refuge in a Hollywood mall. Desperate to survive, she resorted to stealing. One day, she stumbled upon several of the X-women and followed them to Australia through Gateway's portal. When Wolverine had been captured and crucified by the Reavers, Jubilee helped him escape and nursed him back to health. She remained with Logan on his many escapades until both met up once more with the X-men. Eventually, she transferred to join mutants of her age in Generation X to develop her powers. When Genration X disbanded, she and Skin set off to Los Angeles, where she sought a career in acting. After a horrible string of stereotypical acting gigs, she went on to be part of Banshee's militant organization, X-Corp. Jubilee has since returned to Xavier's mansion, finally becoming the official full-fledged member of the X-Men that she deserves to be.

Why: When Jubilee first joined up with the X-men, she was the youngest and most inexperienced member of the team. Throughout her years of involvement with the X-men, she has grown into an invaluable asset. She provided a youthful and exuberant outlook on their perilous lifestyle, which some of the more battle-hardened members had long forgotten. She quickly grew to love this newfound family and many on the team tried to nurture her as their own. During her early days with Wolverine, on his solo adventures, she served as a foil for Logan. His ferocious and violent tendencies were set off by her compassion and innocence. She, at times, could be a walking contradiction though. She seemed to have the confidence and attitude to back up anything she said, and boy, she sure said a lot. But she held back on using her powers for fear of harming others. With the possibility of being one of the more powerful X-Men, she didn’t want to use her powers to their fullest extent. But don’t think that made her weak, if anything it was one of her greatest traits. She didn’t need to rely solely on her powers, and had natural physical prowess and talent, fighting skills she’s learned from the best, and an uncanny wit and intelligence that could one day make her an incredible leader. Now, even after a grave near-death experience, she continues to fight the good fight for peaceful coexistence with her signature spark and enthusiasm intact. Jubilee truly is the team firecracker in more ways than one.

Entry by Nancy Young

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#28: CANNONBALL (SAMUEL GUTHRIE)
Created by: Chris Claremont & Bob McLeod

<img src="http://anotherpilotdown.net/Jennifer/Top40XC/30_21/Cannonball.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 40 X-Characters"></a>Who: At the age of 16, Samuel Guthrie took a job in the mines of his Kentucky hometown to support his family after his father’s death, where a cave-in caused Sam’s mutant powers to manifest: a blast field that rendered him invulnerable and propelled him at great speeds through the air. He was accepted into Charles Xavier’s school as a member of his latest class, the New Mutants. As the oldest, Sam took on the role of leader and the codename of Cannonball. Insecure both in the use of his powers and in his ability to lead, Sam matured under the tutelage of Xavier, later Magneto, and eventually Cable. It was with Cable that Sam and the team adopted more militant methods, leaving the Xavier's school to form X-Force. Proving himself a capable leader without his teachers, Sam was later “promoted” to the X-Men, only to rejoin X-Force until that team’s breakup. Sam then joined Xavier’s new X-Corporation branch in Europe. But one of the team’s first missions ended in tragedy and death. After helping with relief work, Sam decided to take a break from heroics with his first love, rock star Lila Cheney. But the problems of the world were too much for Sam to ignore, leading him to join up with Storm’s splinter faction of X-Men.

Why: Cannonball is more than just a hero… he’s one of us. A young man, incredibly intelligent, insecure with a love of science-fiction, and a voracious appetite for reading, suddenly whisked away into a life of danger, romance, and high adventure. The life of a superhero. More than that, he’s what we could be. Responsible and ethical, a hero and a gentleman. He is often seen as a “straight arrow” character, but Sam will often be the first to leap into the fray or question authority figures when he feels they’re in the wrong. He is also drawn to the wilder side of the fairer sex. His girlfriends have included an interplanetary thief and rock star and a former runaway with a sordid past. Sam has grown up from a gangly wide-eyed teenager, unsure of himself and withdrawn, into a man of honor and principles, a natural and confident leader. In many ways, he is the next Cyclops: a shining example of what an X-Man should be. He has been the pupil of some of the greatest minds in mutant philosophy, the student of three very different dreams for the future. And he has learned and transcended all of their teaching to become his own man with his own ideas and dreams. His father would be proud.

Entry by Jordan T. Maxwell

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#27: BANSHEE (SEAN CASSIDY)
Created by: Roy Thomas & Werner Roth

<img src="http://anotherpilotdown.net/Jennifer/Top40XC/30_21/Banshee.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 40 X-Characters"></a>Who: Sean Cassidy was born the heir to his family’s wealth and estate in Ireland. Sean tried to keep his sonic powers to himself for a good deal of his life, and became an Interpol agent. While on a lengthy mission, his wife Maeve gave birth to a daughter unbeknownst to Sean. On a trip to visit relatives in the North, a terrorist bomb killed Maeve leaving “Black Tom” Cassidy, Sean’s cousin, to take the child in. All knowledge of Teresa (later known as Siryn) was kept from Sean and Black Tom raised her as his own daughter. Banshee relocated to New York and participated in criminal activities, before reforming and joining the X-men. At one point, he finally discovered that Siryn was his child and tried to make up for lost time. He eventually became co-headmaster, with Emma Frost, to the young group of mutants known as Generation X. But after many difficulties, and ultimately the death of his longtime love Moira MacTaggert at the hands of the legacy virus, Banshee drowned his sorrows in the bottle and Generation X was eventually disbanded. Still bitter and distraught, he created the organization known as X-Corp, in hopes to maintain order among Earth's growing mutant population. Unfortunately, the events led to his throat being slit by Mystique, which most likely rendered him powerless.

Why: Sean Cassidy has had a difficult life, as many others of the X-men have. From the bitter wedge between he and daughter Siryn for his absence in her childhood, to the death of Synch while in his care, to the death of Moira MacTaggert, his life has been wrought with grief. This merry mutant’s life hasn’t always been that merry, but he always seems to land on his feet. He may have turned to crime at one point, he may have become more hardened and harsh recently, but deep down this Irishman is truly one of the good guys. We’ve seen him hurt by his removal from his daughter’s youth, and how his tenure with Generation X showed him just how much he truly missed. We’ve seen him go far beyond the extra mile to get the villain, even if it costs him his power, such as when he defeated Moses Magnum. We’ve seen him do what needs to be done even if it hurts those he loves, as in the X-men‘s battle with Moira’s son Proteus. He’s been a mentor, teacher, leader, father figure, and friend throughout the X-Men’s myriad roster. He has had his low points, but strives to do what is right to make his world a better place. Banshee has deservedly earned his place among the most revered wearers of the X.

Entry by Nancy Young

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#26: LUCAS BISHOP
Created by: John Byrne & Whilce Portacio

<img src="http://anotherpilotdown.net/Jennifer/Top40XC/30_21/Bishop.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 40 X-Characters"></a>Who: Originating from a timeline around 70 years into our future, the man named Lucas Bishop of the Xavier Security Enforcers time-travelled to our present in pursuit of the criminal Trevor Fitzroy. With his comrades killed in action, Bishop was invited to join the X-Men by Professor Xavier himself. Now fighting for Xavier's dream side-by-side with the historical X-Men he idolised during his childhood in his own timeline, Bishop had quite a difficult time adapting and fitting in not only culturally, but also methodically, as the Xavier Security Enforcers of his own time is a much more militant group. Soon after, Bishop cited his historical records, revealing that Jubilee was "the last X-Man" and that there was a traitor in their ranks, who would kill all the X-Men. This "traitor" would soon be revealed to be Professor Xavier's dark side, manifesting itself as Onslaught. During this revelation, Onslaught had incapacitated the X-Men and was about to give the final blow, when it was Bishop and his energy-absorption powers that halted the brunt of the attack. Thus not only saving the X-Men, but also changing the path that our present would take and avoiding Bishop's own dark, bleek timeline. Separated from the team for a while, Bishop has since joined Storm's splinter group of X-Men.

Why: Bishop, to be honest, started out on a completely wrong foot. He started out as nothing more than a walking cliché. From the future? Check. Tall with bulging muscles? Check. Big guns? Check. Badarse attitude? Check. Came back from aforementioned future to “right a wrong”? Los Checkos. In essence, Bishop was noting more than a black Cable. But unlike so many other characters from the 90’s, Bishop actually evolved into something beyond his bland basic concept and developed a distinct personality. It didn’t even take him long to become the most zealous X-Man when it came to realising and defending Xavier’s dream. Add his relationship to great-grandfather Gateway (and possibly the St. Croix family, but lets not dwell on that soap opera), and Bishop becomes a character entrenched in X-history even further. Even now, he continues to develop, showing his deductive investigation skills like never before, thus showing another facet of his personality and giving a proper reason for being a part of the X-Men. And you really can’t deny that, along with Cable and Domino, Bishop's "M" tattoo would start a trend that influenced other eye-markings popping up on characters like Blink, Dazzler, Psylocke, and Sage, among others...

Entry by Jennifer de Vries & Al Harahap

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#25: PSYLOCKE (ELISABETH BRADDOCK)
Elisabeth Braddock created by: Chris Claremont & Herb Trimpe
Psylocke developed by: Chris Claremont & Alan Davis

<img src="http://anotherpilotdown.net/Jennifer/Top40XC/30_21/Psylocke.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 40 X-Characters"></a>Who: Elizabeth “Betsy” Braddock. Former British supermodel, turned mutant telepath, turned S.T.R.I.K.E. agent, turned superhero, turned Asian, turned statue? Of all the X-men, Ms. Braddock has got to have one of the most complex and variegated pasts of all time. At one point she took up the mantle of Captain Britain, when her twin brother Brian had given up the post. During a confrontation with the Slaymaster, she received massive injuries and was blinded. While recuperating she was abducted by villains Mojo and Spiral, and given artificial electronic eyes restoring her sight. Rescued by the New Mutants, she eventually decided to join the X-men. Some time later, after entering the Siege Perilous, her consciousness was “swapped” with that of the Asian assassin named Kwannon's. A while after this, she began to develop a romantic relationship with the X-Man Archangel. But she soon had a run-in with Sabretooth and was nearly eviscerated. On the brink of death, her life was saved by a mystical substance called the Crimson Dawn. Her final days were spent as part of the splinter group of X-Men commanded by Storm who were in search of Destiny’s diaries, to try and prevent their knowledge of the future from falling into the wrong hands. But in a final battle with Vargas, Psylocke was slain by his sword.

Why: You've got to love Betsy for her uniqueness, if nothing else. How much more unique can you get? A deadly British-in-mind, Asian-in-body, ninja telepath with purple hair. If that isn’t the definition of unique I don’t know what is. Psylocke may have started out a model, but that doesn’t mean she was against getting her hands dirty. She has duked it out with some of the nastiest enemies the X-men have ever encountered. She’s fought Sabretooth, the Shadow King, and Mojo, without batting an eye. Nor has she ever backed down from a fight, and never given up. With all the adversity in her life, she has never let herself succumb to those hardships. Betsy was a woman who knew what she wanted, and didn’t give a damn what others thought. Her life was her own no matter how anyone tried to manipulate her or how anyone attempted to twist her life to fit their whims. She was her own woman -- strong in mind and in body. She had thrown off countless forms of mind control that would put other heroes to shame. From her inception with the X-men to her disagreeable and untimely death, Psylocke has remained a uniquely popular and vital member of the X-family.

Entry by Nancy Young

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#24: JUGGERNAUT (CAIN MARKO)
Created by: Stan Lee & Jack Kirby

<img src="http://anotherpilotdown.net/Jennifer/Top40XC/30_21/Juggernaut.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 40 X-Characters"></a>Who: Abused as a child by his father, Cain Marko was cruel to everyone he perceived to be weaker than him, focusing most of his contempt toward his step-brother, Charles Xavier. In his teens, Cain accidently set off a chemical fire in his father's laboratory, and soon the place was ablaze. Saving both himself and his step-brother, Cain's father lay mortally wounded and, with his dying breath, warned Charles of the danger should Cain learn about Xavier's own mental abilities. Years later, he was drafted into military service in the Korean War, and both he and his step-brother ended up in the same platoon. To avoid near certain death during an especially brutal battle, Cain fled towards a hidden cave with Xavier following, advising him to return. Inside, Cain came upon a mystical crimson ruby, the gem of Cytorrak. Upon touching the gem, Marko's body was infused with energy and soon grew immense and muscular. In the process, the cave collapsed on him and Xavier fled. Having spent years digging himself out of the rubble, Cain finally reemerged with power beyond belief and renamed himself the Juggernaut. After years of crime and villainy, Cain has recently found his power drastically deminished and has discovered a place among the X-Men where he can come to terms with his rage and malice, and find the one thing he was truely missing: a sense of belonging.

Why: Unstoppable. For the past four decades, this is what defined the character of Juggernaut throughout the Marvel Universe. An unrelenting force of nature that could not be soundly defeated by anyone. The X-Men, Thor, Spider-Man, The Thing, The Hulk -- all would try to defeat Cain with little to no avail. And it is this that has made the Juggernaut a sight to see when he appeared in a hero's title. Because whatever the outcome, Juggernaut was sure to push the physical limits of the characters to the breaking point and even beyond. Within the past year, however, a "new" Juggernaut has emmerged, one who's focused more on the personality behind Cain himself and not the after-effects his presence brings. No longer the unbeatable powerhouse he once was, Cain has now been forced to confront many of the feelings he once held so strongly as truths, one especially being the reason behind his unrelenting anger towards his step-brother. Not seen since the days when Wolverine actively held his nature in check, this inward conflict and doubt behind his place within the X-Men makes Cain Marko a character to look out for in the coming years.

Entry by Ryan Scott

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#23: CABLE (NATHAN CHRISTOPHER SUMMERS)
Nathan Christopher Summers created by: Chris Claremont & Rick Leonardi
Cable developed by: Louise Simonson & Rob Liefeld

<img src="http://anotherpilotdown.net/Jennifer/Top40XC/30_21/Cable.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 40 X-Characters"></a>Who: Nathan Summers was born to Scott Summers and first wife, Madelyne Pryor. His childhood was not peaceful. He was kidnapped time and again, including by his own mother who was revealed to be a clone of Jean Grey. His final captor was Apocalypse, who infected him with a techno-organic virus. To save his life, his father sent him into the future, believing he’d never see him again… but he and Jean would later travel to that same future to raise him and put an end to Apocalypse. But the evils of the future persisted and he continued to fight, both in his time and then travelling back into ours. First as a mercenary, he then hooked up with the New Mutants, molding them into his militant X-Force before going solo and into battle against his own clone, Stryfe, disappearing into the future once more. Cable returned to the present, only to soon find his own father, Cyclops, bonded with his greatest enemy, Apocalypse. Cable joined the X-Men and hunted them down with Jean Grey, freeing Cyclops, and destroying Apocalypse. His nemesis defeated and the techno-organic virus expunged, Cable began to use his vast powers to fight more political battles, leading him to form the Underground in opposition to the newly reformed Weapon X program.

Why: It‘s a surprise that Cable has lasted this long, or at all. Even more amazing is his popularity, given his incredibly twisted origins. Cable first appeared as the epitome of 90's superficial cool, the brainchild of Rob Liefeld. All big guns, shoulder pads, hardass attitude, and mysterious past. But the character evolved, revealed to be the first child born into the X-Men family (a birth that was in and of itself most celebrated), the result of one of the most heartbreaking sacrifices in that family’s history, and took on a whole new level of depth. It just continued from there. Witnessing his childhood and adolescence, the future where he was seen as the Chosen One of the Askani Clan (formed by his half sister from an alternate reality future who came back in time, and then went forward…well, you get the idea) turned Cable from a one-trick pony into a mythic figure. This dichotomy of hard-nosed gritty soldier and science fiction messiah has carried through, allowing for amazing stories to be told with a character who started out as just a badass with big guns. Despite his convoluted history, stocked with such fanboyish terms as “techno-organic virus,” “alternate future,” and “evil clone,” Cable has been able to shed his rather shallow beginnings to become an incredibly varied and iconic member of the X-Men family.

Entry by Jordan T. Maxwell

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#22: NORTHSTAR (JEAN-PAUL BEAUBIER)
Created by: Chris Claremont & John Byrne

<img src="http://anotherpilotdown.net/Jennifer/Top40XC/30_21/Northstar.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 40 X-Characters"></a>Who: Growing up lonely in a foster home, Jean-Paul Beaubier struck a cord with a man named Raymonde Belmonde, who would then become his mentor and father figure. Under Belmonde, Northstar learned to deal with both his homosexuality and his being a mutant. As a young man, Northstar then secretly used his powers to become a gold-medal-winning skier. Later, he would eventually meet his long lost twin sister, Aurora (a.k.a. Jeanne-Marie Beaubier), and with her, join the Canadian superteam called Alpha Flight. This reunion was especially important for the team's forces, as the twins discovered that physical contact between themselves would result in light-based powers they would not otherwise have without each other. However, all was not lovey dovey for the siblings, as Aurora did not fully agree with Northstar's homosexuality. And it is this difference in attitudes that would cause the twins to become estranged. Northstar eventually came out about his sexuality to the public, much to the chagrine of Canada's Department H. Writing a bestselling autobiography, Northstar maintained his international celebrity status. He has since joined the X-Men at the request of Professor Xavier.

Why: Northstar became a pioneering character with his coming out, which was a historical event not only for the character in canon, but also the comic industry in general because it was the first direct acknowledgement of homosexuality in a protagonist figure in mainstream comics. This alone makes him a memorable addition to the vast array of X-Characters. As a minority within a minority, one could argue Northstar was shafted twice over. Despite his double-minority, he doesn’t let it keep him down. He’s strong-willed, proud, and stubborn, which besides helping him reach his goals, also makes him appealing to fans. He’s a fighter, proving that odds are only there to be overcome. He’s a symbol of how one can be accepted against those odds, thus symbolising an important part of Xavier’s dream. But most of all, Northstar’s homosexuality doesn’t define him. He’s a great character despite his orientation, not because of it. He shines in stories where his sexuality aren’t a focus -- merely a side note at most. First and foremost, he’s human. Not gay, not a mutant, but human. And it’s this humanity that has made him a celebrity (with his own autobiography and fans to boot!) in his world, and one of the 40 greatest X-Characters in ours.

Entry by Jennifer de Vries & Al Harahap

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#21: EMMA FROST
Created by: Chris Claremont & John Byrne

<img src="http://anotherpilotdown.net/Jennifer/Top40XC/30_21/Emma.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 40 X-Characters"></a>Who: As a young child, Emma Frost was a shy and prudent little girl. Now, she has become the total antithesis of what she used to be. Using her telepathic powers, Emma is quite the formidable force. She is a financial success with the intelligence -- not to mention telepathy -- that helped pave her way. Later, she joined the New York chapter of the elite Hellfire Club and took on the position of the White Queen. One of her actions was to stop the financing of Sentinels within her clique. She would mentor two groups of students, the Hellions of the Hellfire Club and Xavier's Generation X. After Generation X disbanded, Emma took on the offer of teaching students in Genosha, Magneto's island nation of mutants. Once it was destroyed, she joined Xavier as part of the Institute's faculty and also as part of the home team of X-Men. Also after Genosha, a baby boom of mutants induced a secondary mutation on her, enabling her with the ability to change her body into diamond form.

Why: Emma Frost is a blonde bombshell you don't want to mess with. She has certainly shown her way with men, using her sultry body and revealing outfits. Her manipulation of Iceman was one example, yet ultimately generous. Frost despised his wasted potential and through her tough love, Drake only began to understand the potential of his powers. Her switch from opponent to ally increased her popularity and Grant Morrison’s inclusion of her at the mansion has probably done more for her than ever. She’s the bitch we all love to hate -- making rude quips and not afraid to flaunt her assets. There are too many excellent quotes to exemplify Emma, but this will do: “I’ve become the perfect Faberge killing machine for a reason… and that reason is surely not to wave the flag for X-Liberalism.” Fans can love or hate her affair with Cyclops, but it was a highlight of her infamy. The psychic battle with Jean Grey not only revealed much of her past, but gave us one of her best moments, the remembrance of her perished students. Underneath the façade of a heartless woman, there is a teacher, like any other, with the goal of her students reaching full potential. The care of her pupils is of utmost importance to her. Most of all, her secondary mutation suits her fabulously, complimenting her cold and wicked attitude, humor, and grace.

Entry by Omar A. Safi

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Be sure to check back next week for part 3, #20-11! For more special articles, features, and columns celebrating the 40th Anniversaries of the Avengers and X-Men, click here! (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21464)

[DeadmanWade]

Sorry Staff but in any list that Bishop and Cable beat out Deadpool I am totalllllllly not a fan of it. and jubilee to thats just hidious

[Cloak]

Yay, Emma. I wish she was higher, but I understand why she isn't.

[Tan K.]

Northstar made it that high!!!? What the hell did we do? He has done relatively close to nothing as a member of Alpha Flight and even less for the X-Men. I guess he is that high just as a factor for all of the hate votes against the others.

I am very suprised that Cable was that low.

Sam is a little lower than I thought, but I guess his hiatus and Psylocke's is due mainly to lack of airtime.


Northstar :hellno:

[Joel Phillips]

Not a bad outing, although I could do without the Skankmaster General at #21. You even had to go and use a Greg Porn headshot. Hey, let's take the name off and see how many of her fans can guess who she is without being able to see her cleavage! ... I'm out of insults. I'll have more later, I promise.

[TracyNichols]

Eeeeeewwwwwwww......Jubilee?! I won't complain about Cable being on the list, even though I don't like him...but Jubilee?!!!

Eeeeeeewwww....

And Northstar...well, he WOULD be a great character, if the writers would ACTUALLY USE HIM....

*burns eyeholes into Chuck Austen's head*

[GuyX]

Theres no way at all Northstar should be that high. Given he's been alright under Austen's recent pen, but the guy was a terribly written steroytype for years...and he beats out Bishop, Cable, Cannonball, and frigging BANSHEE!!?? No way. I very, very much disagree.
And as a side note Emma should be in the lower 20's as well, but that's not nearly as unexplainable as Northstar being up there.
Besides that very cool little bios.

[stoney]

I'm still liking the list. I'm glad Cannonball beat Jubilee. I hope some more [original] New Mutants make the list! One thing, Northstar's entry is all about his homosexuality. What about his nasty, aloof attitude?! What about his extreme love and jealousy of his sisters ability to love? What about him being a rich guy because of all his endorsements?

I guess what I'm trying to say is there is more to Northstar than his sexuality. He doesn't focus on it and I feel it doesn't need to be the focus in his entry (mentioned, yes...focused on, no). Besides that, I can't wait for the next installment.

[Al Harahap]

Originally posted by Joel Phillips
Not a bad outing, although I could do without the Skankmaster General at #21. You even had to go and use a Greg Porn headshot.

You think that's bad? This is what Jen originally wanted to use: http://pages.sbcglobal.net/harahap/emma.jpg :shhh:

[Dylan McKay]

Just a thought, isn't Northstar a triple minority, being French-Canadien and all.

And I gotta say Cannonball is too low. Of all the characters to appear in a future of the X-Men title (New Mutants, X-Force, Generation X etc...) he is without a doubt, the cream of th crop. Although I suspect he will be the highest ranked of anyone from those titles. To me, he is the only character who is both a legitmate role model, and a cool character. he's the type of person I would truely like to be. He still deserves to be higher...

That's not to say, the list isn't kicking ass, because it is, I just have to stick up for my favourite comic book character.

[lavar78]

Cannonball is too low. Everyone else is too high. Magik should be ahead of all of these people. And I don't care what anyone says -- Stryfe is a much better character than Cable.

I have to admit I forgot about Cain. After Magnus, he's really the only A-list "villain" IMO.

Since when is Psylocke a mutant?

If Sam is the highest New Mutant, that's a joke. I'm still holding out for Dani (and, of course, Doug). I can't see Rahne or Bobby being above Sam.

On the plus side, Piotr is in the Top 20! Hopefully, he'll be Top 10 (and above Gambit in particular).

[Joel Phillips]

Originally posted by Al Harahap
You think that's bad? This is what Jen originally wanted to use: http://pages.sbcglobal.net/harahap/emma.jpg :shhh:

:LOL: Well, I think more people would recognize her that way!

[Joey Meyers]

Interesting. Heck, I'm just glad Sam was included on the list (although I am slightly dissapointed a Counter X picture was used, but hey, what can you do? No biggie). The choices are also interesting, some characters I didn't expect to be this high, or on the list but hey, suprises are part of the fun.

[DeadmanWade]

Deadpool soooooooo should have been ahead of most of the people in this part. On Joe Kelly's run alone not to mention gails which would place him even higher BLAST! In the words of Jim Ross of WWE DEADPOOL HAS BEEN SCREWEEEEEEEEED! Deadpool fans of the world UNITE!

[lavar78]

This "traitor" would soon be revealed to be Professor Xavier's dark side, manifesting itself as Onslaught.

"Soon" isn't exactly the word I would've used. How about "eventually"?

[Alex Guillen]

I think it was a diverse list especially with both Cable and Bishop in this part of the list and having Cannonball around and I'm also glad Juggy adn northstar are around.
Oh and finally Psylocke ranks as well as Emma.:)

[Wheeze]

What do people have against Jubilee? Frankly I think both her and Longshot should be FAR ahead of The White Queen and Bishop! Now if only Random would make the list, but somehow I doubt he will...

[Suzene]

Originally posted by GuyX
Theres no way at all Northstar should be that high. Given he's been alright under Austen's recent pen, but the guy was a terribly written steroytype for years...

I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where you mentioned having lived in an alternate dimension for your formative comic-reading years. Austen is the one who has been writing Northstar as a stereotypical sitcom homosexual very nearly since the day he got his hands on him (though I admit, his appearance in the X-Men just before was hardly handled any better). Frell, man, Northstar's own limited series didn't drive his sexuality into the dirt the way Austen has!

Personally, while I don't mind Northstar ranking as high as he does, I'm an admitted fan. Do I think he's a complex character with a great back-story and tons of potential? Yes. So far as contributing to the general fabric of X-history tapestry, though, I'd have nominated one or both of the Hudsons for this slot before Jean-Paul: ties to Weapon X, Wolverine, and the rest of it, both have served as field-leaders of Alpha Flight, and I still think Heather causing her own husband to blow himself into carbon particles was a great moment in comics.

If we're going for pure coolness, though, Northstar's still up there.

Suzene

[Michael Fisch]

Since when is Psylocke a mutant? Since when isn't she??? I know her brother Captian Britain got his powers from Merlin or some such Arthurian nonsense, but she and sibling Jamie are full fledged muties, to be hated and loathed by all. :p She did get her bionic eyes from Mojo, though (and how many young 'uns out there are saying "huh?" right now?). Of note that was not mentioned in her entry...she's probably the character that's gone through more revamps or incarnations than any other character. We got British/Asian, Psylocke/Kwannon/Revanche, Pink costume/Purple Armour (note the british spelling)/Ninja Thong, Telepath/Shadow Teleporting/Telekinetic, Butterfly Eyes/Psychic Knife/Psychic Katana, in love with Doug Ramsey/Warren Worthington/Neal Sharra, etc. etc. etc. Unique indeed.

[ronaldmcdonald]

i'm glad to see psylocke and emma on this list.
how come northstar = 22 and psylocke only 25?
but its ok. its a nice list. can't wait.

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

I probably would've mentioned the relevance Kelly's character has NOW, seeing as we're facing similar legislation and paranoia in our own time and government as he embodied and fought for in the books...but then again i nearly had an aneurysm trying to write Cable's history in that short of a bio.

::POP!::

Nope, there it went...:dead:

[Kevin Sutton]

It's nice to see we're getting to the meat of the list. So far fairly good choices, though some I would argue.

How exactly was the order determined? Did the staff each compile their own seperate top 40 lists and average them out? Or was each character arrived at by commitee decision?

[Michael Fisch]

So the list is halfway done...who else is left?

Professor X
Magneto
Wolverine
Cyclops
Beast
Jean Grey/Phoenix/Dark Phoenix
Rogue
Gambit
Storm
Sage (girlfriend better be on the list...she could hack her way to the top)
Kitty Pryde
Mystique
Apocalypse
Mr. Sinister
Havok
Iceman
Angel (Warren)
Colossus
Nightcrawller
Sabertooth


That's my guess of who will be in the top 20, though not in that order. Although I'm sure there'll be some surprises along the way.

Some others that deserve to be included but won't are Cecelia Reyes, Stevie Hunter, Lady Deathstrike, Mojo, Spiral, Thunderbird III (yes, him), and Dani Moonstar.

[Storm_1118]

Senator Kelly? NORTHSTAR? Are you kidding me? And Psylocke THAT low?? Oh my gosh, I was totally thrown by this list! Makes me wonder who the Top 10, well even the next 10 will be? Could we possibly see Wolverine at #12, Storm at #10, and Magneto at #16? I hope not!
Who do we have left?
Cyclops, Iceman, Jean, Beast, Archangel, Professor X
Wolverine, Storm, Nightcrawler, Colossus
Rogue, Gambit, Shadowcat
Magneto, Sinister, Apocalypse, Mystique, Sabertooth
Havok


Blob, Quicksilver, Callisto, Lilandra, Marrow, Sentinels...one of these guys...I'm thinking maybe Sentinels?
It'd be nice to see Dazzler, but I know that won't happen.

[EnriquefromMTY]

Nice list,shame that Dazzler & Dani Moonstar didn't make it ,they deserve to be included

[Zachary J. Morrison]

Good list again. I like Cable. He's a cool character. I hope he returns to the core books. I kinda think Cable should be in the top 20 or so, but this is good for him. Jubilee is in a good spot, and that goes for Psylocke. Can't wait to see the rest of the list ;) When all the parts come together, I'll have to see which ones I like the most out the the entire list.

[lavar78]

Originally posted by lockheed
Since when is Psylocke a mutant? Since when isn't she??? I know her brother Captian Britain got his powers from Merlin or some such Arthurian nonsense, but she and sibling Jamie are full fledged muties, to be hated and loathed by all.

No. The Braddocks' powers come from their father, who is from Otherworld. Betsy isn't a mutant; she's half-alien. I remember Marvel made a push to simplify things a while back by calling everyone a mutant (even Longshot and Warlock), but you can't be a mutant (homo [sapien] superior) if you aren't human. I realize it's all semantics, but still...

[Dragon]

I'm shocked Psylocke was so slow on the list, well not really that low but still.. Jubilee should be higher to but she so underrated sometimes.

[Al Harahap]

Originally posted by SuperMutant
How exactly was the order determined? Did the staff each compile their own seperate top 40 lists and average them out? Or was each character arrived at by commitee decision?

No committee decision. It was a process of averaging, as we wanted as much representation of opinions as possible. But there was a timespan of around 2 weeks for us to look at one another's lists, comment and argue for/against characters, and change our respective lists. So it wasn't a blind "here's my list" process.

[SmashedPumpkin]

It was great to see Cannonball, Juggy, and Banshee in the list, being my three favorite characters, and guess what, I don't care that they are in the 30-20, cause they aren't my favorites 'cause of popularity. They're my favorites due to my personal taste.

[magiklover]

Northstar? at 22? ugh these articles which i praised a few short hours ago... have now went down... way down.

Come on... Has Northstar ever had a crossver made just for him cuz he ruled a demon infested limbo! I think not!

Magik... above Northstar... sheesh.:rolleyes:

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

Y'know...there's plenty of people who's favorite characters AREN'T making this list. One of mine isn't on the list at all, and i've accepted it. This isn't any one person's particular list, but the average of around twenty people with very diverse personalities, opinions and reading habits.

And Moira's already on the list. :)

[spinarakboi]

Depending on what exactly you mean by the Top 40 Characters of All time... I'd say it's pretty accurate. Northstar was one of the first gay comicbooks characters in a mainstream comic from what I gather. Not taking into account personality or how powerful they are I think for what he stands for makes pretty important. *shrug*

[Douglas Cuckler]

Great list so far everyone.
I like the fact that Banshee, Northstar, Cannonbal,Cain, Illyana and Moira were mentioned makes me a happy boy.

Bishop and Cable I agree on but don't like. :)

If my characters coughWolfbaneMoonstarCough don't make the list I'll understand. This is an opinion thingh. There's no way to have a factual Top whatever list.

And all the people upset over Jean Paul is higher than Dedapool or Magik. It's okay. Life goes on. If Wolfsbane will not be mentioned at all, I really will NOT start going off.

Opinions are like butts, some poeples are just bigger. :)

[Lia Brown]

Yes, I contributed to the pool of characters, and most of my gang didn't make it ;) This wasn't intended to annoy or offend people, folks, it's just a list of characters we thought were important to the X-mythos.

[magiklover]

Are all those posts about me...? I was joking... I understand Magik not being high... I just think Northstar is an ...odd choice

[Wolfman]

I'm glad Jubilee made the list, but I do have to question Deadpool's low ranking.

Jubes made the list tho :P nice to know that not everyone are unenlightened Jubilee haters :)


Wolfman

[ManolisV]

longshot on the top 40? Al, you'd better have snuck Doop in somewhere in that top 40, or there'll be HELL to pay!!!!

:clown: :clown: :clown: (<-- "IT")

[Joey Meyers]

I dunno, if Doop was going to apear at all, I'd have figured he have shown up by now...but that's just me.

[wolviechickie]

Emma frost...OH GOD I HATE HER!...


sorry...she was better as a villian

[Jesse Baer]

Well, the lists have been going pretty good so far. The first list was mainly characters I like, but no major characters. I was pretty happy with the list, aside from Longshot being 40, when he should of been higher imo.
As for this list:
I'm not exactly crazy about Kelly, but I can see why he's on the list. Same with Jubilee.
I love Cannonball, and I'm very happy that he's on the list. I can see why he's so far down on the list. He's shined in X-Force, but he just hasn't been used to his fullest potential in the core X-Books.
Banshee, Bishop, Juggernaut and Cable are in pretty good position, about where I'd put them.
I would definately put Psylocke a little higher, probably in the high teens.
Northstar would be in the 31-40 list, if I even included him. He's an alpha flight character to me, he just isn't X-Men to me.
And, as for Emma...
Originally posted by Joel Phillips
I could do without the Skankmaster General at #21. You even had to go and use a Greg Porn headshot.
Exactly. She would be on top of my most wanted X-Ed off list, I'm sure it's just me (and a few others), but I just can't stand Emma.
Originally posted by Al Harahap
You think that's bad? This is what Jen originally wanted to use: http://pages.sbcglobal.net/harahap/emma.jpg
:LOL: This is definately the more recognizable picture :LOL:

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

I really don't understand people's problems with Greg Breasts...I'm sorry, Greg Horn's beautiful breasts...excuse me, paintings of breasts...ahem, characters. I'm personally a bit breast...that is to say, fan of his breasts...i mean, work. But maybe that's just breasts...er, me.

Breasts out...

PEACE! PEACE OUT!

[psylockefan]

the fanboyness...if thats a word, of these replies r crazy. this list is based on (or should be anyway) influence and relevance to the x-canon. and on that note...senator kelly shoulda been higher, but i definetly agree with his inclusion. YEAHHH...psylocke made it. and being the warrior queen she is...i see why, plus they're right, she's so unique, and she's played a role in some major x-storylines. i think bishop shoulda been higher as well, i mean he is the major force in the "x-traitor" storyline...how long was that a mystery in the books...years and years, even the old cartoon. and on that note...my vote for number one....is ONSLAUGHT. he sent both the avengers and x-men packin. yep yep...now hate on dat one fanboys..and girls. oh yeah...banshee??...his inclusion baffles me...what relevance does he have...he never does anyway, nor has he played a part in any pivitol storyline...NOT PIVITOL OR LEGENDARY anyway.

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

it's not just relevance...it's a number of factors, including popularity, iconability, power, personality...everything was taken into account when picking these characters (which is why it's the TOP characters, a rather nebulous phrase, rather than something like BEST or GREATEST)

[Frank Castiglione]

jubilee shouldnt be on the list at all.
if i were an x-writer my first order of business would be to put her out of comission :)

[Wolverine]

I'm so glad a Rob Liefeld Creation made it in. Go Cable! Go Emma!!!

[harlekein]

A very nice list and I agree with it, I can't wait to see who gets to be in the top 10.

[Jennifer de Vries]

Originally posted by DeadmanWade
Sorry Staff but in any list that Bishop and Cable beat out Deadpool I am totalllllllly not a fan of it. and jubilee to thats just hidious

Well, both Bishop and Cable pretty much changed the course of history. I know Deadpool is a fun and interesting character, but I haven’t exactly seen him save all of the X-Men from Onslaught or kill Apocalypse. Those are pretty big things to do. Then there’s also of course the fact that they’ve both been part of the main ‘X-Cannon’ for a good period of time. That’s just recognition that Deapool, no matter how fun he is, doesn’t have. Remember that there’s a lot of factors playing here, as others have pointed out as well. Same goes for Jubilee, who apart from being around before Deadpool was, also had a regular slot on one of the most popular and longest running animated series of the 90’s. She’s practically on here because of that recognition, I suspect.

Originally posted by Tan K.
Northstar made it that high!!!? What the hell did we do? He has done relatively close to nothing as a member of Alpha Flight and even less for the X-Men. I guess he is that high just as a factor for all of the hate votes against the others.

Northstar :hellno:

Say it with me: first gay X-Character. Just name all of the other openly (published too) gay X-Men and we’ll talk. Yes, that is a big thing, especially considering when Northstar came out of the closet. Homosexuality wasn’t as accepted back then as it is now (and it’s really not that accepted now either). Also, Northstar kind of breaks a stereotype, with not wearing a rainbow costume saying how everything’s just fabulous. ;D

Originally posted by Joel Phillips
Not a bad outing, although I could do without the Skankmaster General at #21. You even had to go and use a Greg Porn headshot. Hey, let's take the name off and see how many of her fans can guess who she is without being able to see her cleavage! ... I'm out of insults. I'll have more later, I promise.

Given the surprising low amount of blonde X-Women, I’m pretty sure she’d be recognised by many. ;) Besides, I don’t see anything wrong with this particular headshot. She looks pretty, and not in a cheap porn star kinda way. I mean, her mouth’s closed…

Originally posted by stoney
I'm still liking the list. I'm glad Cannonball beat Jubilee. I hope some more [original] New Mutants make the list! One thing, Northstar's entry is all about his homosexuality. What about his nasty, aloof attitude?! What about his extreme love and jealousy of his sisters ability to love? What about him being a rich guy because of all his endorsements?

I guess what I'm trying to say is there is more to Northstar than his sexuality. He doesn't focus on it and I feel it doesn't need to be the focus in his entry (mentioned, yes...focused on, no). Besides that, I can't wait for the next installment.

Well, we focused on why he’s memorable. His orientation kind of is a big part of that. There is this whole concluding thing at the end though where we step away from it and say it isn’t what defines him though.

He shines in stories where his sexuality aren’t a focus -- merely a side note at most. First and foremost, he’s human. Not gay, not a mutant, but human. And it’s this humanity that has made him a celebrity (with his own autobiography and fans to boot!) in his world, and one of the 40 greatest X-Characters in ours.

Originally posted by lavar78


No. The Braddocks' powers come from their father, who is from Otherworld. Betsy isn't a mutant; she's half-alien. I remember Marvel made a push to simplify things a while back by calling everyone a mutant (even Longshot and Warlock), but you can't be a mutant (homo [sapien] superior) if you aren't human. I realize it's all semantics, but still...

Yes you can be a mutant when you’re not human.

An individual, organism, or new genetic character arising or resulting from mutation.

That basically means doing things neither of your parents could. That means Betsy’s powers make her a mutant. Brian doesn’t have any powers, and as her twin-brother, that alone should tell you that Betsy’s powers aren’t just there because of her father’s otherworldly origin. Same goes with Warlock, he’s the only of his species not bent on war and domination.

Originally posted by opticblast
Northstar would be in the 31-40 list, if I even included him. He's an alpha flight character to me, he just isn't X-Men to me.


Alpha Flight is pretty much X-Cannon. It’s where they came from, and it’s now pretty much the only place they still appear (Wolverine, Weapon X). Plus, the first gay thing! This *is* a big thing people. I know it shouldn’t be, but it *is*. People should also take into account that if about three or four out of god knows how many staff members put him in their top ten, that makes his appearance on this list vewwy, vewwy likely.

So yeah. I know people don’t agree with this list for a large part, but there’s just so many factors that decides where a character ends up that there’s just so much room for argument that it pretty much leaves *no* room for argument. It’s just… well, pointless. One person says one thing, another says another that perfectly works out too.

*deep breath*

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

Wait...we voted on these? I thought we just threw every X-character we could think of in a hat and Al drew out forty...

Really, folks, there were a lot of opinions and arguments over who'd make it in here. There was a process and a diversity of opinion at work to make this representative to a certain degree of the average readership. Only factor we didn't throw in was the "mindless ranting fanboy" demographic. We actually just locked Omar in a room for ten days with no sleep and on a steady diet of Twinkies and diet Mr. Pibb, then let him loose on the voting process. We feel the results produced were equivalent. ;)

[Unicorn_Pegasus]

Originally posted by Joel Phillips
Not a bad outing, although I could do without the Skankmaster General at #21.

I hope you're happy! I just snorted mountain dew all over my keyboard because of that! :LOL:

Originally posted by Al Harahap
You think that's bad? This is what Jen originally wanted to use: http://pages.sbcglobal.net/harahap/emma.jpg :shhh:

I knew I liked Jen for a reason. :D

Um, the list is only half complete and people are already freaking out. Wow, that was sooner than I expected. :) And does anyone see the irony of "So-and-so should be higher! But so-and-so-two sucks so much they shouldn't be on it at all?" Oh, I'm the only one. Ok, nevermind.

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

Originally posted by unicorn_pegasus



Um, the list is only half complete and people are already freaking out. Wow, that was sooner than I expected. :) And does anyone see the irony of &quot;So-and-so should be higher! But so-and-so-two sucks so much they shouldn't be on it at all?&quot; Oh, I'm the only one. Ok, nevermind.

Get her for making us see the truth about ourselves!!!

[harlekein]

Originally posted by unicorn_pegasus
Um, the list is only half complete and people are already freaking out. Wow, that was sooner than I expected. :) And does anyone see the irony of &quot;So-and-so should be higher! But so-and-so-two sucks so much they shouldn't be on it at all?&quot; Oh, I'm the only one. Ok, nevermind.
*raises hand* Sorry to dissapoint, but I kinda noticed too.

[Unicorn_Pegasus]

Originally posted by Jordan T. Maxwell
Get her for making us see the truth about ourselves!!!

You know what the worst part is? That little pearl of wisdom came from the JUBILEE FANATIC! :LOL:

[Stormy]

I really liked this installment; no surprises, unlike the first batch. No bona fide villains though (except maybe Kelly) ... I wonder where Apocalypse, Sinister, Cassandra Nova and Magneto will place. I highly doubt any of the X-statix will show up; they're too new and have had little to no impact on the wider X-canon.

Thanks to Jen for including Northstar, and so high on the list. I feel you've given him more recognition than the guy who's writing him these days, which is a travesty.

[ustad]

whooa!I hadn't thought that northstar would be so high and emma would be solow.I am also paralysed when I saw cable so low like emma.I think the sympaticism of northstar has been coming from the series that x-men stopped magnus in ''eve of destruction'' series...but I can not tolerate it,there are many more characters which should be instead of him (or her?,or both?:LOL: :aargh: ).I think there should be old x-force characters instead in those numbers and chaaters like cable,bishop,emma and moira should have been in higher places...

[Martin Dudek]

Psylocke should've gotten a better number, theres no way Northstar is better than Psylocke. And I hope Cecilia's somewhere on the next list, but she should've been on this one IMO.

[Anthony Lucynski]

Only problem I have with the list thus far is that Deadpool aint in the top 20.

But then again, I have a heavy bias towards the character, so that's not entirely unexpected from me.

I still think it's an honor that of the hundreds of mutants over the years, DP even made the list of the top 40.

That's what people have to understand, we're taking 40 characters of the ungodly huge X-people.

Think about it.

As for Northstar, I dont really care for the character, but I cant deny his impact.

Anthony L

[Tan K.]

I understand Northstar was the first openly gay character in a maninstream comic. BUT this is a mixture of impact, personality, blah, blah.... Other than the gay piece, he's not that important.

However, this is an average (not the typical averaging system though) of ALL staffers who participated, so to those complaining (including myself) this is about as fair a list as you're going to get.

[Stormy]

Thinking about it, in the remaining 20 spots, there are going to be very few surprises, apart from relative rankings. We've still yet to see ProfX or any of the original 5. And of the 2nd generation, we've only seen Banshee so far, and Storm, Wolvie, Kurt and Colossus are all shoo-ins. That's already 10 of the top 20. Throw in other obvious picks like Rogue, Shadowcat, Havok(?)and Gambit, plus maybe 4 or 5 major villains (Mags, Poccy, Sinister, Dark Phoenix?, Shadow King?), and there isn't much room left.

I think Cannonball will deservedly end up as the highest New Mutant/X-Forcer. With so many core characters still to come, I doubt any more peripheral ones will show up.

[lavar78]

Originally posted by Jennifer de Vries
Yes you can be a mutant when you’re not human.

That basically means doing things neither of your parents could. That means Betsy’s powers make her a mutant. Brian doesn’t have any powers, and as her twin-brother, that alone should tell you that Betsy’s powers aren’t just there because of her father’s otherworldly origin. Same goes with Warlock, he’s the only of his species not bent on war and domination.

You misunderstood me. I don't mean "mutant" in the real sense, but in the Marvel sense (i.e., homo sapiens superior). Marvel mutants are humans with the X-factor, a gene that gives them superhuman power(s). Betsy's powers have always been explained as coming from her father -- weren't they originally surprised when Jamie didn't seem to have powers? As I've understand it, Psylocke and Warlock are mutants in the classic sense but not the Marvel sense. Conversely, your definition shows that Cable and Siryn are mutants in the Marvel sense but not the classic sense.

BTW, I still don't think Warlock is a mutant in any sense. To prove he is, you'd have to prove that "not being bent on war and domination" is a real character trait and something more than a conscious decision. Otherwise, anyone who doesn't think like his parents is a mutant.

[Joel Phillips]

Originally posted by lavar78
You misunderstood me. I don't mean &quot;mutant&quot; in the real sense, but in the Marvel sense (i.e., homo sapiens superior). Marvel mutants are humans with the X-factor, a gene that gives them superhuman power(s). Betsy's powers have always been explained as coming from her father -- weren't they originally surprised when Jamie didn't seem to have powers? As I've understand it, Psylocke and Warlock are mutants in the classic sense but not the Marvel sense. Conversely, your definition shows that Cable and Siryn are mutants in the Marvel sense but not the classic sense.

One of the limited series circa 199-somethin' actually addressed this, with the Professor and Moira (I think) concluding that mutancy (Marvel's mutancy) was a trait not unique to homo sapiens. I forget the exact issues, but it struck me as Marvel's way of resolving exactly this kind of thing. A cheap out, if you ask me, but effective none the less.

BTW, I still don't think Warlock is a mutant in any sense. To prove he is, you'd have to prove that &quot;not being bent on war and domination&quot; is a real character trait and something more than a conscious decision. Otherwise, anyone who doesn't think like his parents is a mutant.

I agree on this one. Having a personality trait doesn't count as a mutation, and power-wise he's identical to the other members of his race.

[SQUIRREL-GIRL]

yeah i don't get the northstar ranking either
not an important x-character by any means
rahne or dani moonstar would have been a better choice!

[lavar78]

Originally posted by Joel Phillips


One of the limited series circa 199-somethin' actually addressed this, with the Professor and Moira (I think) concluding that mutancy (Marvel's mutancy) was a trait not unique to homo sapiens. I forget the exact issues, but it struck me as Marvel's way of resolving exactly this kind of thing. A cheap out, if you ask me, but effective none the less.

I must've forgotten about that. Nevertheless, I completely agree with your assessment. As long as they don't make Juggernaut a mutant, I can accept it. ;)

[DiamondPaladinX]

Interesting so far, though I have the funniest feeeling that Gambit isn't gonna be in here...

Damn.

[GuyX]

Even though my life is far from ruined by the list, I stand firmly by the fact that Northstar is not the 21st greatest X-character of all the time. Everyone says he's important because he's gay or was the first gay comic character...thats like saying Gambit should be on the list because he was the first cajun character, or me saying I should be ranked up on the boards because i was the first hispanic poster(sarcasim).....being what you are is no big achievment. It's how you contribute. And he really hasn't.
Name one important X-crossover he's been in. Name something signficant he's done for the X-canon over the years. There's MANY more important X-people out there. It's not a knock on the character which i generally like. It's just the fact thats he's ranked above EVERYONE except the hardcore top 20 legends.

[Gat0r-ManX]

Originally posted by DiamondPaladinX
Interesting so far, though I have the funniest feeeling that Gambit isn't gonna be in here...

Damn.

Gambit's gotta be there. Don't worry. If Rogue (who also should definitely be there) is there, then Gambit's there.

[doctorx]

Hate to be picky again, but I thought John Bryne only scripted the first appearance of Bishop?

[NicholasRogue]

Good list, I agree with all, Jubes, Cable, Bishop, Psylocke, Emma, Juggernaut, Cannonball, Northstar all deserve to be here. Senator Kelly always bugged me though, but heck the guy made the X-Men movie before anyone on this list did, so he must have done something right.

[Vasilios]

Whats wrong with Jubilee being on the list? She has come very far since the early days and she deserves a spot on the list. So anyone who disagrees can suck my plasmoids!! :clown:

[OmniGamer]

Originally posted by GuyX
Even though my life is far from ruined by the list, I stand firmly by the fact that Northstar is not the 21st greatest X-character of all the time. Everyone says he's important because he's gay or was the first gay comic character...thats like saying Gambit should be on the list because he was the first cajun character, or me saying I should be ranked up on the boards because i was the first hispanic poster(sarcasim).....being what you are is no big achievment. It's how you contribute. And he really hasn't.
Name one important X-crossover he's been in. Name something signficant he's done for the X-canon over the years. There's MANY more important X-people out there. It's not a knock on the character which i generally like. It's just the fact thats he's ranked above EVERYONE except the hardcore top 20 legends.


As someone mentioned, it says "TOP" not "best" or "Greatest".

Personally, i don't think i'd have put him on the list, but i understand the nature of the list.

Too bad this isn't the 50th anniversary, an extra 10 rankings would have been cool...and too bad i most likely won't be around to see the Top 100 list 60 years from now :( :p

[Allison Wright]

Of course everybody's not going to agree with everything on the list. That's ok. I would have put Psylocke higher but that's just me.

Originally posted by Joel Phillips
Not a bad outing, although I could do without the Skankmaster General at #21. You even had to go and use a Greg Porn headshot. Hey, let's take the name off and see how many of her fans can guess who she is without being able to see her cleavage! ... I'm out of insults. I'll have more later, I promise.

:LOL:


Originally posted by Gat0r-ManX
Gambit's gotta be there. Don't worry. If Rogue (who also should definitely be there) is there, then Gambit's there.

I hope so. Rogue's definetely going to be there. I'm guessing top ten.

[Jesse Baer]

After reading all the comments complaining about who was on the list (including my own contribution :) ), and the justifications from some, I realized that the bottom 20 on this list have to be Extremely difficult to choose, and you're going to get a lot of complaining. The top 20 should be easier, becuase there are about 20 or 25 characters that are Essential X-Characters, that everyone agrees has had great impact, has great following, and are core to the X-Men Universe. Characters like Professor X, Cyclops, Wolverine, Storm, Magneto, and more. After those 20 something characters, you've got easily over 100 good characters to choose from. Some clearly need to be included, like Cable and Bishop, but it has to be tough narrowing the list down from 100 to about 15 for the bottom of the list.
I just look at this list and the one before it more as "Honorable Mention" characters, they're not essential to the X-Universe, but they've had great impact, and have some following, and have earned their spots on the list.
That said, we all pretty much know who will be on the next two lists, there might be a surprise or two, and the numbering will definately be interesting. These two lists have been pretty great, and I can't wait to see who makes the top 10.

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

Originally posted by Joel Phillips

I agree on this one. Having a personality trait doesn't count as a mutation, and power-wise he's identical to the other members of his race.

For characters like Warlock and Longshot, i always saw them as something like "memetic mutants." Their cultures are so ingrained with certain traits that any deviation from that norm IS as abnormal as an X-factor genetic mutation in baseline humanity. Which is why they were able to so wholeheartedly commit themselves to this dream and ideology which, on the surface, didn't concern them at all. Just my thoughts on the matter. :)

And if Betsy's powers aren't a mutation by the fact that her human DNA is altered by that of her father's, then we can't consider Namor to be a mutant either since his "mutant" status comes from his half Atlantean parentage.

[Mutant_Genesis]

The whole 40th anniversary thing has been awesome so far! Reading all the articles has been great. The Top 40 X-Characters has been my favorite list though.

I'm really surprised that Betsy didn't even make it into the top 20! She defintely deserves to be higher than that. I'm glad Bishop, Cable, Emma, Sam, and Jubes made it, but Northstar!?!?! I know everyone's already talked about it, but I'm still shocked he even made it past 30!

[Jesse Baer]

Originally posted by Al Harahap
You think that's bad? This is what Jen originally wanted to use: http://pages.sbcglobal.net/harahap/emma.jpg :shhh:
You should make this an avatar :D It would definately become one of the most used avatars.

You could even make a whole series of avatars out of it, X-Cleavage...Emma, Psylocke, StacyX, Storm, Blob, Polaris, etc.

[Scott Williams]

This was an excellent list, especially this installment. I'm glad to see a shout out to Juggernaut, he's been treated well lately.

I wish I could've come up with a list this imaginitive and comprehensive, not to mention insightful.

(Now Jim, will you please detatch the electrodes...?)


...In all seriousness, for both of you paying attention to anything I've ever said, my previous post in this thread (now deleted by my own hand,) failed to accurately express my thoughts on this thread. I'm actually utterly fascinated by the choices made here, and I find that in just about all cases, the selections are well-justified, and you learn something special about the character.

Except Bishop - I'll never compromise on my opinion of him.

(And seriously, Jim, these electrodes hurt. I've learned my lesson!!!!)

[Blademaster]

Originally posted by Scott Williams
Except Bishop - I'll never compromise on my opinion of him.

I agree also. Never found his whole future cop thing appealing from the start and still don't, even with all the stuff that's happened since. But I agree pretty much with the rest of the list.

[magiklover]

well its nice to know almost everyone else thinks Northstar is a horrible choice

[PinkShiro]

I'm glad banshee made the list. He should be allowed back into one of the x-teams....i mean sheash, he's been a headmaster, why not let him be a teacher to da x-kids?

[Youri Zoutman]

Originally posted by PinkShiro
I'm glad banshee made the list. He should be allowed back into one of the x-teams....i mean sheash, he's been a headmaster, why not let him be a teacher to da x-kids?
And it would be interresting to see how Banshee deals with the powerless thing

[X-Corps(NZ)]

I'm glad two of my favourite characters ranked so high,
#21 :emma:
#22 :nstar:
I want too see what happens when these two get together.
I'm also glad :juggie: made the list too, he's great either as a hero or a villain (just like :magneto: who I hope is #1).
The bios and tid-bits of information are a nice touch too guys :)

[The Big Q]

Emma. You gotta admit, people either love her or hate her, but no one seems to be indifferent. To me, she is the Queen Bitch, and that's why I love her! :emma: forever!

[Douglas Cuckler]

Originally posted by magiklover
well its nice to know almost everyone else thinks Northstar is a horrible choice

Not everyone. :D

He honestly did do some great stuff in Alpha Flight. Which I very much think of as an X_spinoff. He had his own storyarc, and mini series as well.

Oh well I'm done trying to defend him..


Still to go.......
The tie breaker for number one between Moonstar and Wolfsbane. Which one could it be........

[doctorx]

With 20 more spots left...I think it's safe to say that

Jean Grey
Cyclops
Professor X
Magneto
Rogue
Storm
Wolverine
Nightcrawler
Colussus
Shadowcat

will be up there in the final 10......

As for 11-20....
Probably...


Havok (If Polaris is up there, you just know he's probably going to be also)

Danielle Moonstar (I don't see what the big deal about her is, but people seem to go crazy for her, and I have a feeling she'll be up there, although personally I think she's one of the most annoying and bland characthers ever)

Gambit (...)

Iceman (Not that special imo, but I'm sure he'll be there)

Beast (Not that special imo, but I'm sure he'll be there)

Archangel (Not that special imo, but I'm sure he'll be there)

Sabretooth

Mystique

Apocalypse

Mr. Sinister

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I personally would have included Sage, Rachael Summers, Lilandra, Sentinels, etc...

But, at least Madelyne made the list, so that's all that matters :p :)

[Jesse Baer]

Originally posted by doctorx
With 20 more spots left...I think it's safe to say that

Jean Grey
Cyclops
Professor X
Magneto
Rogue
Storm
Wolverine
Nightcrawler
Colussus
Shadowcat

will be up there in the final 10......

As for 11-20....
Probably...

Havok (If Polaris is up there, you just know he's probably going to be also)

Danielle Moonstar (I don't see what the big deal about her is, but people seem to go crazy for her, and I have a feeling she'll be up there, although personally I think she's one of the most annoying and bland characthers ever)

Gambit (...)

Iceman (Not that special imo, but I'm sure he'll be there)

Beast (Not that special imo, but I'm sure he'll be there)

Archangel (Not that special imo, but I'm sure he'll be there)

Sabretooth

Mystique

Apocalypse

Mr. Sinister

I personally would have included Sage, Rachael Summers, Lilandra, Sentinels, etc...

But, at least Madelyne made the list, so that's all that matters :p :)

I think your top 20 are pretty accurate, but I wouldn't agree with your ordering. About the only character guaranteed to be in the top 10 are: Professor X, Magneto, Cyclops, Jean, Storm, and Wolverine. I see 7 through 14 being (in no order): Rogue, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Shadowcat, Gambit, Iceman, Beast, and Archangel, maybe with Sinister or Apocalypse thrown in between.
As for the rest of your list, I don't really agree with Moonstar, I don't think she'll make it at all. Number 20 will probably be one of those you would have included.

[Jim Lemoine]

You have no idea how much fun it is to read these posts, for those of us who know what's coming next....

[Morgan-Paladin71]

I am glad Cannonball and Banshee and Bishop did well on the list, and even when Bishop was just a "walking cliche i still liked the character, and the investigation skills just adds to it. Banshee is one of my favorite characters as well, so i'm a bit biased there.

[jota]

I'm glad Jubilee made the list. She's one of my favorite characters and I'm glad to see her qualities recognized.

[lavar78]

Originally posted by dreamawake


He honestly did do some great stuff in Alpha Flight. Which I very much think of as an X_spinoff.


Originally posted by opticblast


As for the rest of your list, I don't really agree with Moonstar, I don't think she'll make it at all.

I don't think Dani will make it either, which is quite unfortunate. It seems characters from the spinoff books are a bit under-appreciated by the voters (with the notable -- if puzzling -- exception of Northstar).

A prediction: #20 is Havok. If not, it's a villain.

[Jon Hancock]

no blob :(

[Mike Gonzalez]

My top ten are EASILY

1 Colossus
2 Sinister
3 Apocalypse
4 Archangel
5 Northstar
6 Quicksilver
7 Gambit
8 Cyclops
9 Puck
10 Longshot

Hon mention-
Moira
Illyana

Least faves-

1 Wolverine
2 Cable
3 Vanisher
4 Toad
5 Boomer

[Jared Oberholtzer]

Mmm.. Emma. :) I wish she woulda been higher.

[canadianhero]

Hmmm, how many of you would be upset if Wolverine was #1? Explain your reasons why, or why not. Personally, I think he should at least be in the top 3. Most likely be Prof X, Magneto, Wolverine. What are your thoughts?


I'm glad Jubes made the list. All someone had to do was evolve her character, she's been great and should continue to receive a push.

[Jesse Baer]

Originally posted by canadianhero
Hmmm, how many of you would be upset if Wolverine was #1? Explain your reasons why, or why not. Personally, I think he should at least be in the top 3. Most likely be Prof X, Magneto, Wolverine. What are your thoughts?

I wouldn't be mad at all. If he makes it to #1, it's because he has a reason to be there. He has to be in the top 3 imo too. It all just depends on the judges as to where he exactly falls in, but you can't deny that he is the most popular X-Character, and he has had GREAT impact on the X-World.

[Mike Gonzalez]

I see Wolverine as a standard character who's been grossly overpowered over the years and has been given a "shadowy and mysterious past" to allow for extreme profitability later on. His past reads like an issue of "What If?'

[Kevin Sutton]

I'll be happy with the selected #1 only if they have a real good expanation; no matter who it is.

[bmack]

I'm not sure what order they will come in at, but here are (what I feel will be) the top ten characters...

Professor X - What other reasons are needed aside from founding the team, the entire series of books being named after him, and his "dream" being the underlying emphasis of any/all x titles?

Magneto - The ultimate X-Villain, the yin to the professor's yang, one of the strongest mutants on the planet

Wolverine - When people think of Marvel comics (let alone the X-Men) one of the first characters they think of is Wolverine. He is an icon and perhaps the backbone of the X-teams.

Cyclops - The first and greatest field leader of the X-Men, perhaps even Xavier's hand-picked successor. One of the founding five.

Jean - Along with Cyclops, chosen by Xavier to carry on the "dream". One of the founding five. May have had the most impact of any X-Man during the history of the series with her exploits in the Phoenix/DarkPhoenix/rebirth saga.

Storm - One of the most dominant X-Females ever. Has led various teams. Has been with the X-Men almost non-stop since she first joined. (Though the "mohawk incident" will probably hurt her rating)

I could also see Angel, Iceman, and Beast getting nods in the top ten because of their founding member status.

Lastly, probably a villain... maybe Apocalypse, Sabertooth, or the Sentinels. The Sentinels and Apocalypse have probably caused the X-Teams the most amount of grief next to Magneto.

Just some thoughts. Can't wait to see the rest of the list!

~ The Mack

Bad Dudes -> :venom: :ghost: :namor:

[doctorx]

Originally posted by opticblast


I think your top 20 are pretty accurate, but I wouldn't agree with your ordering. About the only character guaranteed to be in the top 10 are: Professor X, Magneto, Cyclops, Jean, Storm, and Wolverine. I see 7 through 14 being (in no order): Rogue, Nightcrawler, Colossus, Shadowcat, Gambit, Iceman, Beast, and Archangel, maybe with Sinister or Apocalypse thrown in between.
As for the rest of your list, I don't really agree with Moonstar, I don't think she'll make it at all. Number 20 will probably be one of those you would have included.

Oh yeah, my list wasn't really in order. But, I still think Rogue, Nightcrawler, Shadowcat, and Colossus hold some type of leverage before Iceman, Havok, and those people. But of course, you're right on Professor X, Magneto, Cyclops, Jean, Storm, and Wolverine being sure cuts.

Yeah, I hope Danielle Moonstar doesn't make it either. But, I still think that they're going to put her down.....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some other people who I think might be wild cards whom we might not expect, but might be in the top 20....

Cypher
Wolfsbane
Rachael Summers
The Orphan
U-Go Girl

I would be pretty shocked if an X-Statix characther made it, but I think it might be in there....

[thewrite1]

Originally posted by Bebi
I see Wolverine as a standard character who's been grossly overpowered over the years and has been given a &quot;shadowy and mysterious past&quot; to allow for extreme profitability later on. His past reads like an issue of &quot;What If?'

Wolverine has had a 'mysterious past' from the beginning. Also, his powers haven't changed since the Claremont days. He's hardly overpowered because he has come close to death numerous times and its only through sheer strength of will that he's managed to survive and keep going. And when Claremont came on board the X-Men weren't exactly popular, so Wolverine's 'profitabilty' has been a happy surprise for Marvel.

Who's Danielle Moonstar???

[doctorx]

Danielle Moonstar is a Native-Americian mutant currently in the second edition of New Mutants. (but she deubuted in the first edition of the New Mutants)

She's got tons of powers like a variety of illusion based powers, communication with animals, mystical Valkeryie type skills, and
something to do with quantam energy. But currenty, they're only giving her one illusion power.

Now that I think about it, I actually liked Danielle when she was the "evil" Moonstar. Having her turn out to be really a mole was quite dissapointing. Her appearances in X-Force weren't too bad, but whenever she's in New Mutants (whether it be Volume 1 or 2), I find her quite annoying and boring

[Mike Gonzalez]

Originally posted by thewrite1


Wolverine has had a 'mysterious past' from the beginning. Also, his powers haven't changed since the Claremont days. He's hardly overpowered because he has come close to death numerous times and its only through sheer strength of will that he's managed to survive and keep going. And when Claremont came on board the X-Men weren't exactly popular, so Wolverine's 'profitabilty' has been a happy surprise for Marvel.

Who's Danielle Moonstar???

Not entirely. There have been various attempts to give Wolverine a past, but they keep crossing them out as "possibilities". Early Wolverine was susceptible to a hell of a lot more than he is now. Magneto pulling the adamantium out of Logan in any decade but the 90's and today would have killed him immediately.

[HavokThePowerful]

i agree with all of these except northstar

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

Originally posted by Bebi


Not entirely. There have been various attempts to give Wolverine a past, but they keep crossing them out as &quot;possibilities&quot;. Early Wolverine was susceptible to a hell of a lot more than he is now. Magneto pulling the adamantium out of Logan in any decade but the 90's and today would have killed him immediately.

We've got some pretty definitive stuff in Wolverine's past, though. Origin, Weapon X, the Team X stuff (like in the first Omega Red story), his time in World War II all seem pretty canonical and exempt from "memory implant" nonsense.

And Magneto ripping the adamantium out nearly DID kill the ol Canucklehead...it wasn't like he jumped up right after saying "okay, now you're all in big trouble." He was on the verge of death the very next issue and was quite sickly and weakened for a while after that...of course, the status quo police had to come in and make him a badass again even without the adamantium (the feral state where he lost his nose? shudder...)

[candylyn]

Wow a little respect for Jubilee, I am happy to see she made the list.

[Mike Gonzalez]

Originally posted by Jordan T. Maxwell


We've got some pretty definitive stuff in Wolverine's past, though. Origin, Weapon X, the Team X stuff (like in the first Omega Red story), his time in World War II all seem pretty canonical and exempt from &quot;memory implant&quot; nonsense.

And Magneto ripping the adamantium out nearly DID kill the ol Canucklehead...it wasn't like he jumped up right after saying &quot;okay, now you're all in big trouble.&quot; He was on the verge of death the very next issue and was quite sickly and weakened for a while after that...of course, the status quo police had to come in and make him a badass again even without the adamantium (the feral state where he lost his nose? shudder...)

...and you mustn't also forget the Brood. Now Wolverine can kill off an egg that's hatching within his body at a cellular level? Isn't that taking his mutant healing to an extreme?

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

NOW he can? He's been able to do that since the Brood first showed up! Come on...now you're just grasping at straws. ;)

[thewrite1]

Originally posted by Bebi
Now Wolverine can kill off an egg that's hatching within his body at a cellular level? Isn't that taking his mutant healing to an extreme?

Isn't that like a human beating cancer?

One moment that really made Wolverine stand out for me was when I was reading the early Claremont back issues for the first time and the gang arrived at Cassady Keep. The little leprauchan called Wolverine by his alias, 'Logan'. Okay, nothing unusual about that (apart from the existence of leprauchans, but never mind...). It was a little while later that I found out this was the first time his name has been revealed in the X-books. Nightcrawler himself never knew Wolverine's name until they visited Heather of Alpha Flight some time later. This was very clever and showed just how secretive and aloof Wolverine really was. He had been with the X-Men for years (?) and when Nightcrawler asked why he had never revealed his name, Logan replied, 'You never asked'. That was just brilliant.

[Jon Hancock]

how comes there's no mention of cannonball's asgardian heritage? one of us? i don't think so ;)

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

Originally posted by Jonberg
how comes there's no mention of cannonball's asgardian heritage? one of us? i don't think so ;)

Well, maybe not one of you...but i'm part Swede, so my ancestors are Vikings. Therefore, he is one of US. ;)

Seriously though...i have no idea what you're talking about with Asgardian heritage. My research didn't turn up anything regarding that (even reading the annuals where they go to Asgard, and Cannonball gets that sweet sword and armor...god, i love Norse mythology. :) )

[Anthony Lucynski]

I know at one point he was considered Immortal (part of the Externals, I believe) but never knew he had an Asgardian heritage.

Anthony L

[wyzeguy]

Don't be hatin' on Jubilee. :)

Actually, I like Jubilee for all the reasons listed on her write-up for the list, and I think she's in a pretty good spot. I've always liked that she took it upon herself to be the X-Men's multicolored anti-angst grenade (anytime the X-Men get too melancholy and full of themselves, just put Jubes in their midst and pull the pin). Plus, he has to get points for actually saving Wolverine's life (and by becoming his sidekick, she made sure he didn't forget it for a long while) -- and she has serious ballz on a Wolverine scale. I mean, think about it: she's more than willing to go up against any opponent without fear, and the larger/more menacing that opponent is, the likelier her chances are of taking it on. Heck, she doesn't have a healing factor and she has fun getting in and out of the same scrapes that usually drag Logan through the meat grinder.

And she's deceptively smart. One time she actually outsmarted Emplate when he'd captured the entire Generation X team(besides Monet) by making all kinds of hilarious insults that infuriated him. He fed on her and copied her powers, but he ended up playing right into her hands by been so ticked off by her that he couldn't control her plasma fireworks. BOOM! Gen X was freed, and Emplate was stuck looking like a cartoon character who'd lit a match in a room full of TNT. Yes, I have a certain fondness for that scene.

Anyway, onto other things: I'm among the people who finds it amusing that so many fans are upset about the rankings. Apparently, they're upset that this is not a popularity contest determined solely by themselves. This is an overview of certain characters' possible place in X-History as determined by caffeine-fueled message board moderators and contributors. The Top Ten is pretty much a lock character-wise, as there are some who are just indespensible to the mythos, but 11-40 is up for grabs, and that's the fun of a list like this. The interesting part isn't just seeing who fills the spots, but where. And I also like that the character bios seem well-thought-out in an honest attempt to argue a case for being on the list. I especially like the Cannonball bio: it's so easy to see the stereotypical country hick and nothing else, but there's so much more to these characters than just what's obvious at first glance. And those bios attempt to illustrate that: they're obviously written by their fans, and that's the beauty of it.

What makes the X-franchise so enduring is that there are so many characters, ranging from the awesome to the laughably suckarse. And everyone has a different idea of who fits where in that spectrum. But there's undoubtedly someone for everybody. Anyone expeosed to the characters in the X-books is undoubtedly going to find someone to like, so a character who's at the bottom of one fan's list could be at the top of another's, and there's nothing wrong with that. Maybe those two fans were exposed to different stories that portrayed the character in different lights. Maybe those fans simply hve different points of view about what makes a character interesting, or different life experiences through which they relate. But in the end, nobody's wrong, because we're talking about opinions.

Great feature, ComiXFan people.

[nekretaal]

Are these the best characters or the worst ????

Of the twenty characters revealed so far, how many were unworkable that they had to be majorly revamped several times?

You look at somebody like, say, storm, and the character is still interesting and not all that different from the character that was first introduced, and compare that to everybody on this list... (except for possibly Destiny or Sen. Kelly who were more plot devises than actualy characters)

Or look at Marvel's choices of : which characters do we use to market our product? Which X-men do we choose to put in the movies? Which X-men made the cut for the "X-men: Next Dimension" video game?

[harlekein]

Originally posted by nekretaal
Are these the best characters or the worst ????

Of the twenty craracters revealed so far, how many were unworkable that they had to be majorly revamped several times?

You look at somebody like, say, storm, and the character is still interesting and not all that different from the character that was first introduced, and compare that to everybody on this list... (except for possibly Destiny or Sen. Kelly who were more plot devises than actualy characters)

Or look at Marvel's choices of : which characters do we use to market our product? Which X-men do we choose to put in the movies? Which X-men made the cut for the &quot;X-men: Next Dimension&quot; video game?
The top 40 characters... the descriptions... they ought to have hinted you too the fact that these are the best characters (in the minds of the staff). This is not something based on what Marvel says or markets but personal opinions of (mostly) long time comic book readers.

[nekretaal]

Originally posted by harlekein

The top 40 characters... the descriptions... they ought to have hinted you too the fact that these are the best characters (in the minds of the staff). This is not something based on what Marvel says or markets but personal opinions of (mostly) long time comic book readers.

Ok, but consider: Polaris sits at #33. I have a terribly hard time believing that the same woman who was a "i want to live a normal life" researcher, was then "malice," was then a "she-hulk," was then a perfectly likable government worker, and is now a psychotic version of Magneto... are all the same woman. Most people dont change like this and most characters wouldn't change like this unless they "weren't working," either.

Consider: you're a hack writer and you want to 'out' the sexuality of a character (who was previously straight or at least asexual) for pure shock value. Do you choose (1) a beloved chracter with a history, or (2) a derivitive chracter who has just sort of managed to hang around but hasn't really done anything? Northstar was outed because he was lame. Granted, Northstar is less lame now that he's the only "starring" gay mutant (other than the child molesting effeminate metrosexual Juggernaut imposter), but I want to see Northstar actually DO SOMETHING before I put him on any sort of "all time" list.

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

Originally posted by nekretaal


Ok, but consider: Polaris sits at #33. I have a terribly hard time believing that the same woman who was a &quot;i want to live a normal life&quot; researcher, was then &quot;malice,&quot; was then a &quot;she-hulk,&quot; was then a perfectly likable government worker, and is now a psychotic version of Magneto... are all the same woman. Most people dont change like this and most characters wouldn't change like this unless they &quot;weren't working,&quot; either.

Consider: you're a hack writer and you want to 'out' the sexuality of a character (who was previously straight or at least asexual) for pure shock value. Do you choose (1) a beloved chracter with a history, or (2) a derivitive chracter who has just sort of managed to hang around but hasn't really done anything? Northstar was outed because he was lame. Granted, Northstar is less lame now that he's the only &quot;starring&quot; gay mutant (other than the child molesting effeminate metrosexual Juggernaut imposter), but I want to see Northstar actually DO SOMETHING before I put him on any sort of &quot;all time&quot; list.

Polaris almost from the start has been a bit...unstable. And considering the number of entities who've been screwing around with her head over the past few decades, i think it's perfectly understandable that her personality is somewhat mercurial.

Also...i'm not an Alpha Flight fan (not a big one anyway), but i've heard from several who read the book prior to the outing that it was always rather hinted at that Northstar was gay, but back then you couldn't SAY it because no one in the Marvel Universe was allowed to be gay...which is why writers had to kind of hint at it to fans (eg: Mystique and Destiny, Karma). And we really kind of frown on the word "hack" around here, unless you can back it up. It's about one step up from just saying something "sucks" and leaving it at that, y'know?

[nekretaal]

I didn't call anybody any names.

Northstar is still lame. And, if there is no story-purpose to out him... then I have to conclude that he was outed for shock value. And if he was outed for no particular purpose, or if the purpose of outing him was to out him, then he will just sort of sit around in storylines (that he can't participate in) sort of like the Doug Savant gay character on Melrose Place.

I hope that you are also not going to tell me that it was always also hinted that the Juggernaut was always a metrosexual effeminate gay child molester.

It's hard to tell whether lorna is crazy... but I guess that she would come off that way, as she's gone through so many incarnations... The "meta" question is whether the reason Lorna's been possessed so many times isn't just a continuity-bandage to revamp a character that doesn't work ever few years. Austen's Lorna is at least interesting, and so was Peter David's X-Factor Lorna, but these aren't the same woman.

my point was simply that a character ought not to be considered classic, if that character has been through several major revamps in the short period that the Marvel U has been in existance

[crozack]

Bishop and Northstar and Emma Frost beat Banshee? Cable is this far low? Achem. Right.

Better than the last ten I guess but still way off base. Ah, well.

[Douglas Cuckler]

As far as Northstar goes there was hints to him being gay in issue 8 of Alpha Flight 1983. The gay readers (at least I did ) picked it up from then and various other issues throughout the run.

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

Originally posted by nekretaal
I didn't call anybody any names.

Well, technically, you called the writer who outed Northstar (was it Lobdell? I don't know who was writing AF at the time) a "hack." That's a name...you called it. Thus, you called someone a name.

Originally posted by nekretaal

Northstar is still lame. And, if there is no story-purpose to out him... then I have to conclude that he was outed for shock value. And if he was outed for no particular purpose, or if the purpose of outing him was to out him, then he will just sort of sit around in storylines (that he can't participate in) sort of like the Doug Savant gay character on Melrose Place.

The purpose of outing him way back when was most likely for shock value, but to also clarify the hints that had been dropped since 83 (thanks dreamawake. :D ). Do i think it was the best way of outing a character or served the story? Not really, no, but that's my taste...and i've enjoyed stories with him since. Would i have put him on my personal top forty? No, but there were a lot of people who worked on this list and the fact that he got nominated and voted so high by even a handful of hardcore X-Men fans has to say something. And we haven't really seen him in storylines for a while (get on that, Austen), sitting around or otherwise. After all, he first came to the school to teach...and Uncanny X-Men's been rather "action based" lately.

Originally posted by nekretaal

I hope that you are also not going to tell me that it was always also hinted that the Juggernaut was always a metrosexual effeminate gay child molester.

First of all...does anyone else hate yuppie buzzwords like "metrosexual"? It's like "life partner." Call em your freakin boyfriend, already! sorry, hate buzzwords...onwards...


I have no freaking clue where you're getting this effiminate gay child molester thing from. Juggernaut connected with a kid, a kid who like him had an abusive childhood and was prepared to lash out because of it...and oh yeah, a kid who saved his freaking life! Where's your evidence? Because i've been reading Uncanny for a pretty long time now and haven't seen any indication of this. So a grown man relates to a kid. Why does there have to be a sexual or perverse side to that? Yeesh, remind me to never let you near the Big Brothers program... I think you're reading way too much into something i'm not seeing (suddenly the people who think Rictor and Shatterstar are gay don't seem so crazy). I mean, there's subtext and then there's "just pulled this out of my ass" text.

Originally posted by nekretaal

It's hard to tell whether lorna is crazy... but I guess that she would come off that way, as she's gone through so many incarnations... The &quot;meta&quot; question is whether the reason Lorna's been possessed so many times isn't just a continuity-bandage to revamp a character that doesn't work ever few years. Austen's Lorna is at least interesting, and so was Peter David's X-Factor Lorna, but these aren't the same woman.

So...if you got kidnapped and had your latent mutant powers activated to the point that your hair turned green, then you were told that your father was the big bad of all evil mutants, only to find out he wasn't, tried to retire only to be used as a mind controlled pawn by an interdimensional spy and assassin, later to have a non corporeal evil psychic entity permanently bonded to your personality (more than once!), have your powers stripped away and your physiology altered, then kidnapped and strung up to be used as a nexus point between the physical and astral planes by yet another non corporeal evil psychic entity, then break up with the love of your life and then he DIES, you console yourself helping out on an island nation that is massacred before your very eyes, leaving you as one of the few sole survivors as you begin to suspect that maybe big bad evil mutant might be your father after all...and suddenly your lover returns, alive but comatose, awakens and decides he's not in love with you anymore, he's in love with a nurse who hates your genetic kind and decides to tell you as you're exchanging vows on your wedding day...you're telling me that wouldn't have just a WEE bit of an effect on your personality?

I mean, i'm just asking...because everyone i've known who's gone through all that has had a little psychological trouble. Nothing a Xanax didn't fix. ;)

[nekretaal]

It is irrelevant whether Northstar was always gay or not. Northstar's most and memorable character 'characteristic' feature is that he was outed, and he was only outed recently. This is not the makings of a classic character. Otherwise he's derivitive of Quicksilver, both in his powers and in his relationship with his sister. Considering that Quicksilver is himself derivitive of the Flash... Northstar doesn't come out looking too good.

UXM right now is mainly a melodrama. How else do you explain 'the Draco' where the main plot warrants few pages in between a love triangle, a paternity plot, and a child custody dispute? If you ever watched 'Melrose Place,' the Doug Savant character couldn't participate in the main stories because he was gay. So, he was always a sidekick or somebody who had storylines separate from the main story. Thus far, Northstar has been ignored or been a sidekick. (for example, What did he do during the wedding? What is he doing during the Draco?)

As for the others:

We'll see where the 'Sammy' storyline goes... but read UXM 431 to see the Juggernaut hitting on Northstar, being rejected, and then bragging about his attractiveness to men.

As for Lorna, some of the events in her life have been rather dramatic. We'll have to agree to disagree about her. But, surely you must concede that the results of her drama is dramtic shifts in her core personality every five years. The woman who couldn't open a jar in X-Factor 71 is the same woman who knocked out a platoon of the world's most powerful mutants? How can you say that somebody is a classic character if they do not have a consistant or identifable character?

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

Originally posted by nekretaal
It is irrelevant whether Northstar was always gay or not. Northstar's most and memorable character 'characteristic' feature is that he was outed, and he was only outed recently. This is not the makings of a classic character. Otherwise he's derivitive of Quicksilver, both in his powers and in his relationship with his sister. Considering that Quicksilver is himself derivitive of the Flash... Northstar doesn't come out looking too good.

UXM right now is mainly a melodrama. How else do you explain 'the Draco' where the main plot warrants few pages in between a love triangle, a paternity plot, and a child custody dispute? If you ever watched 'Melrose Place,' the Doug Savant character couldn't participate in the main stories because he was gay. So, he was always a sidekick or somebody who had storylines separate from the main story. Thus far, Northstar has been ignored or been a sidekick. (for example, What did he do during the wedding? What is he doing during the Draco?)

As for the others:

We'll see where the 'Sammy' storyline goes... but read UXM 431 to see the Juggernaut hitting on Northstar, being rejected, and then bragging about his attractiveness to men.

As for Lorna, some of the events in her life have been rather dramatic. We'll have to agree to disagree about her. But, surely you must concede that the results of her drama is dramtic shifts in her core personality every five years. The woman who couldn't open a jar in X-Factor 71 is the same woman who knocked out a platoon of the world's most powerful mutants? How can you say that somebody is a classic character if they do not have a consistant or identifable character?

Ahem. First of all, it hasn't been recently...it was quite a few years ago (close to a decade now, i believe) that he was outed. And let's face it, every character is derivative of another character. Though i don't really recall the last t