PDA

View Full Version : GREATEST 40 X-STORIES OF ALL TIME, PART 3: #20-11


Joel Phillips
Sep 15, 2003, 02:50 pm
<a href="http://pages.sbcglobal.net/harahap/top40xs3.gif" target="_blank"><img src="http://pages.sbcglobal.net/harahap/top40xs3.gif" align=left alt="Top 40 X-Stories"></a>Greatest 40 X-Stories of All Time, Part 3: #20-11
Edited and assembled by Joel Phillips

Our 40th anniversary celebration continues with stories 20 through 11 on our Top 40 X-Stories countdown. Read our previous installments: Part 1 (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21443) and Part 2 (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21688)!

<center><hr width=75%></center>

<a href="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/4images/data/media/188/uxmen226.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/4images/data/thumbnails/188/uxmen226.jpg" align=right alt="Uncanny X-Men #226 – Fall of the Mutants"></a>#20: Fall Of The Mutants
Uncanny X-Men #225-227
Written by: Chris Claremont
Art by: Marc Silvestri

(NOTE: Even though the other chapters of Fall of the Mutants were spectacular in their own way, only the Uncanny X-Men chapter was chosen.)

The eternal cosmic agent of chaos, the Adversary, has begun his gambit to take over the omniverse. His cosmic opposite, the guardian of the omniverse, Roma, is a prisoner within her own home, the Starlight Citadel. Meanwhile the X-Men, after having received an ominous prophecy from Destiny about their future, travel to Forge's home in Dallas to look for their missing leader, Storm. Unbeknownst to them, Storm and Forge, after having been tricked by the Adversary (who has possessed Forge's mentor's body, Naze), and are now on an alternate Earth. In an attempt to tempt his two greatest opponents, the Adversary offers them the opportunity to become the life essences (the god and goddess) of this soulless Earth. Storm and Forge spend a couple of months on this other-earth coming to terms with themselves and each other.

However, back on the real 616-earth (the timeframe is days to the other-earth's months) the X-Men (Havok, Rogue, Psylocke, Dazzler, Longshot), lead by Wolverine and friend Madelyne Pryor, have a run in with Freedom Force who have come to arrest the X-Men (though Mystique's true agenda is to save her daughter, Rogue, from death). The environment turns strange (i.e. time eras merging in Dallas and the sky being torn open in the middle of the night), so the two teams decide to join forces. By this time, Colossus has unexpectedly popped (literally) into the midst of all the turmoil (he ends up being the &quot;wildcard&quot; in the end scenario). Eventually, the X-Men journey alone into Eagle Tower to find Storm and uncover the perpetrator of the twisted events. As the struggle continues Storm regains her powers, and she and Forge make their move against the Adversary and are captured. The X-Men make their way to the Starlight Citadel, and repel the Adversary, but cannot finish the deal. Finally it comes down to the X-Men (and Madelyne) having to give up their souls, and lives, in order to vanquish the enemy and close the gateway from which he came. Forge was the person who had opened the portal years ago during the Vietnam War, sacrificing the souls of his dead comrades to bring demons to earth to slaughter the Vietnamese, and so he finally comes full circle and throws the life force of the X-Men at the Adversary. The gate is locked away, and the X-Men die. Roma, now free, transports Forge and Neal Conan (a reporter, who had been along for the ride) back to earth. Back in the Citadel, Roma reclaims the lives of the X-Men, stating that the Adversary has a place in this the order and must never be forever locked up. The X-Men's lifelines were truly cut at the moment of their sacrifice, so Roma offers them their hearts desire. The X-Men and their loved ones have been experiencing a spike in atrocities instigated against them, and have been wanting some way to get back at their enemies. They decide to enact their &quot;Plan Omega&quot;, which is to strike at their enemies from the shadows, thereby protecting their family and friends.

This story holds a special place in my heart. This was the arc that I truly discovered the world of the X-Men. I had only read of the X-Men's exploits in guest appearances and did not care for Wolverine one bit. Then my friend let me borrow Uncanny X-Men #226. I had never before read characters with such depth as I had in this issue, and I was instantly hooked. The plot and story was very compelling, but the Fall of the Mutants was special because of Chris Claremont's portrayal of real people and the numerous choices they had to make.

Mystique and Rogues' mother-daughter relationship was more pronounced in this arc than in any other I have seen. Mystique's hatred for Forge begins here as well. Unlike today's brutal and unscrupulous Mystique, Claremont was transforming Mystique into another deep and complex antagonistic figure, where the lines of good and bad are too fluid to make a “one or the other” determination. Unfortunately, the last time the reader saw this Mystique was in All New, All Different...Here We Go Again.

One of my favorite parts about this arc was Wolverine as the leader. He is probably one of the best characters qualified to lead, but because of his own personal tastes, he chooses not to (even here Storm had to beg him to!). He stepped up and made some great decisions, and it also allowed the reader to see the softer side of the guy.

A highly important part of the story was Storm getting her powers back. Ororo had been powerless for years. Before Wolverine ever lost his adamantium and was considered weakened, Claremont had already played that scenario out with Storm, who truly was at a loss. Claremont really set the foundation for Storm's will and strength during this time and made her grow so much. Fall of the Mutants was where Claremont gave the reader the more vulnerable and heart-felt side of Storm after her long run as the hardline leader. With the return of her powers, she became entrenched as one of the most dynamic female protagonists in comics. On top of that, her hair grew back. (Thank God!)

An incredible and tragic move by Claremont was cleansing of the &quot;Outlaw&quot; label. Neal Conan and Manoli Wetherell, two reporters, were present during these three issues. Neal became trapped with the rest of X-Men, but continued to roll film. While the rest of the world's heroes were being held in reserve, which made this even grander in scope without having to make it a crossover (another subtle, masterful ploy of Claremont), the world got to see the X-Men for what they truly were: heroes. However, as mentioned above, the X-Men died, so there would be no recognition of their selfless act.

Another poignant touch is Madelyne Pryor, and her last words (via television camera) to Scott: I love you and find our son. Remember, Inferno is not even a glimmer in the readers’ eye, but going back to these issues really shows how well Claremont began the transition into that sub-plot and further development for Maddie.

A couple of other bonuses for the reader was the appearance Kitty and Kurt. Their first appearance (along with Colossus's) since almost dying in the Morlock tunnels (see Mutant Massacre) was very exciting, but their reaction to the X-Men's death made it that much more impactful. Don't forget, the supposed death of the X-Men made the formation of Excalibur possible.

Fall of the Mutants represented a crossroads for the X-Men. Not only did this lead to the Australian era for the X-Men, choices were made that impacted individuals and teams for years to come. Claremont tied up loose plots into a wonderful story while adding others… continuity done right. What makes this arc worthy of the 40 greatest stoies? Within a microcosm, this three-issue gem represented why the X-Men were miles ahead of the rest: characterization, relationships, dialogue, and heart. Today's X-books have yet to come even near the level of this synergy.
This entry written by Tan K.

<center><hr width=75%></center>

<a href="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/4images/data/media/188/uxmen153.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/4images/data/thumbnails/188/uxmen153.jpg" align=right alt="Uncanny X-Men #153 – Kitty’s Fairy Tale"></a>#19: Kitty’s Fairy Tale
Uncanny X-Men #153
Written By: Chris Claremont
Art By: Dave Cockrum

For every old, jaded X-Men fan out there, the ones who've seen everything from Phoenix's death to Inferno to Operation Zero Tolerance to the Living Monolith... there has to be a warm spot in their comic-loving hearts reserved for the stand-alone, not-related-to-X-continuity-in-the-slightest story by Chris Claremont and Dave Cockrum called Kitty's Fairy Tale.

When this issue first came out, the X-Men had been going through hell. Just a year ago, Jean Grey had died on the moon. Then Cyclops left. Then the mutants saw their own doomed futures in the Days of Future Past. Then they all got kidnapped by Arcade and Dr. Doom. This was quickly followed by epic battles with the Hellfire Club and Magneto. It was a rough time to be an X-Man.

Luckily for them, Chris Claremont has always been a writer who knows when to give his characters some down-time. That's why Uncanny X-Men #153 wasn't yet another colossal struggle against the Juggernaut or Moses Magnum... it was a spotlight on their newest member, Kitty Pryde, as she told young Illyana a bedtime story. Thus, the title, Kitty's Fairy Tale.

Kitty wove a story of a faraway land where Pirate Kitty sailed for adventure with her loyal... ah... friend, Colossus, at her side. Along the course of their adventure, they would meet a noble prince whose eyes shot fire, a powerful wizard with immense mental powers, an intimidating clawed fiend with no name, and an incorrigible, girl-crazy fuzzy blue elf, to name a few. It was the tale of the noble prince's efforts to save his lady from the evil power of Dark Phoenix, assisted by Pirate Kitty and her friends.

The story-within-a-story is a rare thing in the graphic medium, and it's a great treat when it's done right. Kitty's Fairy Tale is probably the best example in modern comics history of this kind of change-of-pace, completely different, self-contained story. Besides being a fun romp through a fantasy world (so much fun, in fact, that Dave Cockrum would revisit it in his original Nightcrawler limited series), it worked on levels of both historical significance and clever foreshadowing. In Kitty's swashbuckling saga, we saw both how Kitty perceived her teammates, and how Kitty wanted to perceive herself. Pirate Kitty was a confident combatant and a born leader, very reminiscent of Cyclops, the leader who Kitty herself most looked up to. The wizard of the story showed Kitty's view of Charles Xavier: extremely old, frail and lacking in the physical, but very powerful regardless. The genie was Kitty's version of Storm: a beautiful and talented goddess, honorable above all else. And, of course, there was our "kind of" first appearance of Lockheed the Dragon; Kitty's version of the team's SR-71 Blackbird jet was a crafty and mischievous dragon named Lockheed... who was, of course, completely devoted to Pirate Kitty.

The old expression "And now for something completely different" was never more true than when Claremont and Cockrum released this fun detour in Uncanny X-Men #153. It was also the last light-hearted moment the team would have for some time: the entire team would be infected with Brood eggs and trapped in deep space within a few issues. A master of pacing, Claremont took this opportunity to simply revel in creating a fun comic... something the X-Men themselves seemed to enjoy as well, as the book showed us the various team member's reactions to their portrayals in Kitty's imagination (Wolverine's, especially, was great - and all the funnier with Nightcrawler teasing him for it).

So no, Kitty's Fairy Tale wasn't a huge multi-part epic, and it didn't have any berserker rages, dramatic deaths, or racist homo sapiens. No Magneto, no Sentinels, no Cassandra Nova. The story didn't have a huge lasting impact on the team... as a matter of fact, most of it wasn't even in continuity.

It was just a lot of fun. It was so much fun, and it was such a great look at these still-relatively-new X-Men characters, that it easily earns a high spot on this list of the greatest X-stories of all time.
This entry written by Jim Lemoine

<center><hr width=75%></center>

<a href="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/4images/data/media/188/uxmen270.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/4images/data/thumbnails/188/uxmen270.jpg" align=right alt="Uncanny X-Men #270 – The X-Tinction Agenda"></a>#18: The X-Tinction Agenda
Uncanny X-Men #270-272, New Mutants (Vol. 1) #95-97 & X-Factor (Vol. 1) #60-62
Written By: Chris Claremont & Louise Simonson
Art By: Jim Lee, Rob Liefeld & Co., Jon Bogdanove & Guang Yap

Have you ever listened to a finely composed piece of music? Like Beethoven’s Fifth Symphony or Gershwin’s Rhapsody in Blue? Pieces where each movement slowly builds, introducing phrases and then overlapping them, letting them fall away as new phrases come in…but at the very end, all of these themes that have been lingering yet ever present rejoin in one final climactic movement that stirs the senses and stimulates you on a pure emotional level, so that you cheer with each triumphant fanfare and weep with the lilting strains of a single violin? That’s the level of artistry that X-Tinction Agenda strives for.

On one level, it’s just a great story, spanning all three titles in the X-Men family (remember when there were just three?); a sweeping action drama of high stakes and shocking twists. But on another level it is a crux point in X-Men mythology, the culmination of several long running plot points in all three books and the catalyst of events that resonate even today.

The island nation of Genosha had been an adversary of the X-Men for some time, a Huxley-an utopia maintained by a police state and a mutant slave caste. And after having apparently been killed (and unbeknownst to the public, resurrected), the X-Men had passed through the mystic Siege Perilous, scattering them to the ends of the Earth. Upon the return of a handful to the mansion, there was an immediate tension between them and the mansion’s current residents: the New Mutants, having fallen under the tutelage of the mysterious and militant Cable. X-Factor’s former ally, Cameron Hodge, had proven a turncoat and survived decapitation only by a demonic bargain for immortality, one that left him a grotesque cybernetic monstrosity…with a great deal of power, a hatred of mutants and a score to settle with the students of Xavier. An alliance between Hodge and Genosha would be all it would take to ignite this powder keg. In short order, an army of Genoshans invade American soil and kidnap the New Mutants Boom Boom, Rictor, Wolfsbane, Warlock and Storm (regressed to an earlier age), prompting the remaining X-Men and New Mutants to team up with X-Factor to launch a counter strike to bring home their missing brethren. Too late, however, to save Warlock’s life or prevent Storm and Wolfsbane from being turned into mutates, the mindless mutant slaves who secretly fuel Genosha’s economy. And the intervention of Wolverine, Jubilee and the now Asian Psylocke is offset by the revelation that Havok had emerged from the Siege Perilous in Genosha and was now leader of their mutant police force. As the invaders are captured and sentenced to death, a series of plots and counterplots among Hodge, the Genegineer (the scientist who pioneered the “mutate” process) and the President of Genosha begin to unravel…allowing the heroes to take hold of the Genoshan citadel and, with the newly restored Havok, Storm and Wolfsbane, make one final stand against Hodge to eliminate their old nemesis and the oppressive government. Though victorious, the teams would not leave unscarred. The mutate process somehow allowed Storm to revert to adulthood, but it would lock Wolfsbane in her lupine state for some time to come. X-Men who had been lost in the Siege Perilous reunited, but the loss of Warlock and Wolfsbane would haunt the New Mutants…and upon further such losses would prompt their conversion into X-Force. And of course Genosha would become an ever-present element in stories for years to come, culminating in its cession to Magneto, an aborted war with humanity and its final tragic destruction.

If the story suffers anywhere, it’s in the art. Between the four (or more) artists involved, there is a distinct lack of artistic unity and flow. It’s a common problem in crossovers when so many artists are working, but such drastically different styles can distract the reader. Jim Lee is at the top of his game here, and his chapters resonate with beauty. And Rob Liefeld has some good work…but assistance in his first chapter, a change up in inkers halfway through his second, and his complete absence from the third leads to a lack of visual uniformity within a third of the story. And Jon Bogdanove, while an absolute genius in the brilliant Fantastic Four vs. The X-Men, has never impressed me too much with his exaggerated cartoony style, especially when attempting to blend with Jim Lee’s far more “heightened realism”. The contrast is just incredibly jarring and occasionally distracts the reader from the real action of the story.

But writing wise, this is how crossovers are meant to be done. The elements that Claremont and Simonson had been developing for years organically grew into this final conflict. Nothing was certain in this high stakes game, with the antagonist not merely being a powerful villain but the ideology and resources of an entire nation. The casts merge and interact seamlessly, allowing for each chapter to flow into the next rather than stiffly shifting focus between each individual title. And the greatest compliment I can think to give it is that it was not afraid to change the status quo. These big event stories of the 80s and early 90s would shake things up with an almost sadistic delight. Anything could happen and no one was safe. Want to change a team line up? Go ahead. Need to kill off a character or radically change another? Be our guest. The reason that stories from this era shine while those of the latter part of the 90s suffer and stagnate is that at a certain point, the audience realized that no change would come out of those later stories. Even if there was change at the very end of a story, the status quo would be reestablished within a very short time. Without change, without risk there are no stakes, no real conflict, no drama. And that is what X-Tinction Agenda is all about: risk, stakes, change.
This entry written by Jordan T. Maxwell

<center><hr width=75%></center>

<a href="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/4images/data/media/188/uxmen251.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/4images/data/thumbnails/188/uxmen251.jpg" align=right alt="Uncanny X-Men #251 – Fever Dream"></a>#17: Fever Dream
Uncanny X-Men #251
Written By: Chris Claremont
Art By: Marc Silvestri

If you don't like Wolverine, you won't like Fever Dream. Or maybe the reason you don't like Wolverine is because you haven't read Fever Dream.

Let's be clear: Claremont's version of Wolverine bears no resemblance to the growling, inhuman beast he is often portrayed as today. Claremont has always portrayed Wolverine as a creature driven equally by honor and instinct... two conflicting impulses to be sure. Though the animalistic part of Wolverine is always present, it is not something Wolverine willingly surrenders himself to. In the tradition of the samurai, Claremont's Wolverine knows that there is greater strength in not killing a man than in killing a man... which is not to say he won't kill if need be.

What does any of that have to do with Fever Dream? Quite simply, Fever Dream is Wolverine at both his most vulnerable and his most strong. The aura of indestructibility that had always surrounded Wolverine was significantly diminished here, as Wolverine finds himself completely at the mercy of Donald Pierce. Crucified upon an X, an image portrayed in one of the best comic book covers ever produced, Wolverine's mind begins to retreat into itself even as his seemingly invincible body withers. Wolverine has a series of hallucinations, which are actually visions sent to him by the mysterious Gateway, and which are a combination of twisted flashbacks of past events and portents of things to come.

In his lucid moments, however, he is engaged in a psychological struggle with his captor, Donald Pierce. It is here that Wolverine's strength shows itself, as he easily wins each battle in the war of wills. When Pierce taunts Logan, Logan taunts him back, and it is Pierce who loses his cool. When Pierce, no longer content to leave Logan chained upon the X, produces stakes and crucifies him, Logan refuses to scream, further infuriating Pierce. This is a Wolverine we hadn't seen before: physically vulnerable but mentally determined, making him more real and more human in both ways.

The story also marks an important first: pulling himself off the cross, Wolverine finds himself staring into the face of Jubilee for the first time, and he asks the young stranger for her help. It is a scene that is, in a way, recently mirrored in Uncanny X-Men, where Wolverine pulls Jubilee off a cross she was put upon by the Church of Humanity. It also marks an important last: the last appearance of the Siege Perilous, which is crushed here by Donald Pierce in another (failed) effort to break Wolverine's spirit.

Fever Dream is a great character study of one of the most over-exposed and yet least understood characters in comics today. It ought to be required reading for anyone who reads (or writes) a Wolverine story.
This entry written by Joel Phillips

<center><hr width=75%></center>

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/Marvels2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://Www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/Marvels2t.jpg" border=0 align=right alt="Marvels #2 - Monsters"></a>#16: Monsters
Marvels #2
Written by: Kurt Busiek
Art by: Alex Ross

"Protecting a world that hates and fears them."

This statement defines what the X-Men is all about. Surely, a lot of fans may have fallen in love with the X-Men because of the good characters, the action/adventure and the soap opera, but these are not the things that make the team stand out from the rest of Marvel's superhero populace. You can get that from ANY superhero book. What makes the X-Men unique is that they are the heroes that always get the short end of the stick. Whatever good deed they might have done, the people would always hate them. This theme of discrimination, a concept ahead of its time when Stan Lee introduced it, brings a very unique atmosphere to any X-Men related comic. And nowhere can we see a better representation of this misplaced geneticism in the Marvel Universe than in this short 44-page story called Monsters.

A brief overview: It was the dawn of the Silver Age of superheroes. With the birth of the Fantastic Four, the return of Captain America, and the formation of Earth's Mightiest Superheroes, these superheroes - these "Marvels" - have New York City and the rest of the world gaping in awe and in wonder. Capturing the story from behind his camera lens was Phil Sheldon, a freelance photographer who has made a reputation for catching the caped heroes in their full glory. But something was amiss in this world. For with every Marvel the people choose to adore, there was also a Monster - a mutant - that they have chosen to hate and fear. And when Phil Sheldon had an unexpected close encounter with a homo superior, he got struck with a startling realization. A realization that would change the way he perceives the Marvels - and the Monsters - forever.

Before I read this story, I always thought that the blind hatred against mutants in the Marvel Universe is a mere plot device used to make the X-books feel different from other books. Viewing the X-Men from a detached third-person perspective made me think that the people should have been really stupid to actually hate a bunch of heroes trying to save them. But Monsters changed my perspective on this issue. Because of Busiek and Ross' man-on-the-street approach, I was made to experience why people in the Marvel Universe hate mutants. The sense of paranoia against the next evolutionary step - reinforced by a sensationalizing media and words from prophets of doom like Bolivar Trask - was all perfectly captured in the pages of this story. It made me realize that one should never underestimate the people's capacity to act blindly because of the fear of the unknown. Just like how a lot of people blindly feared and hated any communist or Russian in the 60s just for being who they are, it's not hard to imagine how mutants could also suffer from such blanket profiling and stereotyping. Had I been in the Marvel Universe, I most probably would have found myself snapping and blindly lashing in an anti-mutant riot. I guess any of us would be after watching the Sentinels kill Bolivar Trask on public television.

Monsters successfully elicits a very emotional response from its readers due to two elements. First is the pacing. Starting from a very optimistic atmosphere, Kurt Busiek slowly builds up the tension and paranoia in the story by methodically inserting scenes showing Phil Sheldon's growing awareness of the mutant situation. From his first encounter with the X-Men, to his unexpected mutant encounter in his own home, to his dilemma on how to protect his family from a mutant-hating public, we see a natural progression in Phil's view towards mutants. And the pacing is complemented perfectly by the second element - Busiek's excellent use of contrast. The story was set against the backdrop of Reed and Sue Richards' wedding, one of the happiest moments in Marvel's Silver Age history. The extreme contrast in the public's adoration of the glamorous heroes and their vitriol over the mutants was a perfect irony. To paraphrase a line from the story, the Monsters were the dark side of the Marvels - the negatives without which the pretty pictures would never exist.

The X-Men appeared in less than 10 panels in this 44-pager. However, the theme of discrimination, which distinguished the X-Men over the years, could definitely be felt as the driving force behind this moving story. With Monsters, Busiek and Ross fully realized Lee and Kirby's commentary on man's propensity to blindly fear and hate the unknown. Add in a disturbing ending which could really depress the hell out of you, Monsters definitely deserves its position in the Top 40 X-Men stories of all time.

"Protecting a world that hates and fears them. "

Open your eyes and experience this world. Welcome to the world of Monsters.
This entry written by Erwin Rafael

<center><hr width=75%></center>

<a href="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/4images/data/media/257/astonxmen1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/4images/data/thumbnails/257/astonxmen1.jpg" align=right alt="Astonishing X-Men #1 – Age of Apocalypse"></a>#15: The Age of Apocalypse
X-Men: Alpha, Age of Apocalypse: The Chosen, Amazing X-Men #1-4, Astonishing X-Men (Vol. 1) #1-4, Factor X #1-4, Gambit & The X-Ternals #1-4, Generation NeXt #1-4, Weapon X (Vol. 1) #1-4, X-Calibre #1-4, X-Man #1-4, X-Universe #1-2 & X-Men: Omega
Written By: Warren Ellis, Larry Hama, Terry Kavanagh, Scott Lobdell, Jeph Loeb, Howard Mackie, John Francis Moore, Fabian Nicieza & Mark Waid
Art By: Renato Arlem, Chris Bachalo, Roger Cruz, Tony Daniel, Terry Dodson, Steven Epting, Adam Kubert, Andy Kubert, Salvador Larocca, Ken Lashley, Tom Lyle, Joe Madureira, Carlos Pacheco, Val Semeiks & Steve Skroce

The Age of Apocalypse (AoA for short) was a different kind of crossover. While stories like The X-tinction Agenda or Inferno featured X-titles crossing over to tell a common story, the AoA was actually a series of separate stories with a unifying factor between them: the alternate reality in which they existed. What's more, never before had the entire X-line been set aside for such an event, actually suspending the publication of the main titles in order to explore this separate world.

Alternate realities were nothing new by the time the AoA was conceived of, but they almost always took place in the future. What makes the Age of Apocalypse all the more interesting is that it altered the reality of the present, allowing us to get a glimpse of alternate versions of our favorite characters as they exist today: from the Summers brothers serving under Mr. Sinister, to Moira MacTaggart as part of a Sentinel-wielding Human High Council, to a mindless Multiple Man whose powers unwillingly provided Apocalypse with an army. And even the variations that were slight were enjoyable: the unbreakable Wolverine with only hand, the Cyclops with only one eye, the Iceman whose powers were so far beyond the limits of his regular counterpart.

And, though there was a shared storyline running through the titles, you didn't have to care. Each limited series was its own, self-contained story, and if you didn't want to be concerned with the larger story you could still enjoy the pieces on their own. And some of the pieces were startlingly good.

In fact, two are particularly worth mention. The first is Warren Ellis' X-Calibre, a personal favorite of mine, which followed Nightcrawler to the Savage Land to track down Destiny. This one featured a deliciously cruel Dani Moonstar; a mindless Deadpool, AKA "Dead Man Wade"; a great original character called Switchback; Damask, a variation on the Black Queen of the London Hellfire Club, who was far more interesting than her real world counterpart; and the Shadow King in possibly his coolest incarnation ever. This was "I've got a gun and I'll use it" cool. The AoA Nightcrawler made a great lead character, the villains were standouts, and Ellis' four issues did more with the Kurt/Mystique relationship than has ever been done in continuity.

The second worthy of individual recognition is Scott Lobdell's Generation NeXt, which followed the AoA's X-Men understudies on a mission to save Illyana Rasputin. Lobdell did an excellent job with all his characters, particularly the team's teachers Colossus and Shadowcat, and artist Chris Bachalo did some of his best work with the dark settings the story required. But the real success was in the ending: though the team succeeds in their mission, it costs all the young students their lives.

The AoA even gave us some characters that were continued over from after the story concluded. X-Man, the AoA version of Cable, continued his life and his series after the world was restored to normal, and continued his exploits for 75 issues. Several AoA villains-- the evil AoA version of the Beast, the grotesque Sugar Man, and Holocaust, the powerhouse offspring of Apocalypse - made the switch over to the post-AoA Marvel Universe, though all three are missing in action as of right now. And let's not forget that everyone's favorite Exile, Blink, started out in the AoA as well.

The Age of Apocalypse is a fanboy's dream: a look at our favorite characters and the world they inhabit from a new and fascinating perspective. What makes the story great is that it succeeds in the very thing most crossovers fail at: it functions as both a single, continuous story and as a series of separate tales, making it both epic and accessible at the same time.
This entry written by Joel Phillips

<center><hr width=75%></center>

<a href="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/4images/data/media/196/xmen-110.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/4images/data/thumbnails/196/xmen-110.jpg" align=right alt="X-Men (Vol. 2) #110 – One Tin Soldier Rides Away"></a>#14: One Tin Soldier Rides Away
X-Men (Vol. 2) #110
Written By: Scott Lobdell
Art By: Leinil Francis Yu

After Colossus’ death in Uncanny X-Men #390, the longtime X-Man deserved a poignant sendoff. That is what Scott Lobdell and Leinil Francis Yu gave him: a story that truly resonates with the reader.

The story follows Katherine Pryde’s thoughts and travels to Moscow to take Peter Nikolaevitch Rasputin’s cremated ashes to his homeland. Kitty was a friend, lover, and teammate to Peter. Through Kitty’s narration, we feel for her anguish and sorrow. It is hard to explain the real emotion you feel by reading this story. Colossus has grown up with X-Men fans, and everyone, even a fan like me who started in the 90’s, can love this tale.

Along with saying farewell to Colossus, Lobdell provides a goodbye to Kitty too. Instead of taking advantage of the X-Men’s advanced technology like the Blackbird jet, Kitty flies on an airplane with other normal people, starting off her new normal life at college. Kitty’s tired of the loss of her loved ones at Xavier’s Institute and hopes to gain a new life by getting an education, using her intelligence rather than her powers. In the end, Kitty’s thoughts assemble a letter to Xavier saying goodbye and Xavier deleting all of her files in Cerebro. Lobdell ends both characters significantly and excellently. Kitty’s leaving was a practical, fitting, and smart resolution to her career with the X-Men.

Kitty’s point of view is also highly enjoyable. The scene at Ye Old Malt Shoppe from Uncanny X-Men #129, where Storm recruits Kitty, is retold well. Kitty explains her first impressions of Peter, Logan, and Storm. Lobdell scripts fun dialogue and Kitty even mentions possibly eating leftover Shi’ar food.

Leinil Yu crafts an amazing story. Even though his style is gritty and rough, he portrays a wide-eyed young Kitty and towering Colossus. The double splash page of Kitty releasing Peter’s ashes into the wind was brilliant. Each scene uses appropriate colors to set the mood. Yu’s action scenes were intense and his Magneto is definitive.

One Tin Soldier Rides Away deserves its place with the greatest 40 X-Men stories of all time because of its authentic emotions, saying goodbye to two X-Men and beginning a new journey for one.
This entry written by Omar A. Safi

<center><hr width=75%></center>

<a href="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/4images/data/media/173/excal016.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/4images/data/thumbnails/173/excal016.jpg" align=right alt="Excalibur #16 – Cross-Time Caper"></a>#13: Cross-Time Caper
Excalibur #11-19 & 21-24
Written By: Chris Claremont
Art By: Alan Davis, Dennis Jensen, Rick Leonardi & Chris Wozniak

The early years of Excalibur were some of the most fun you could have in comic books, and no single story represents that spirit better than the Cross-Time Caper.

The Excalibur team, along with long-time hanger-on Alistaire Stuart, is transported into an alternate reality by way of a dragon-powered bullet train (yes, you read that correctly). Over the next fourteen issues, the Excalibur team hops madly from reality to reality in their attempts to return home. They pass through a magical, medieval kingdom; an unsettled England a la the Wild West; a war between an evil sorceress and a spunky space pirate; and several dystopias that range from the seemingly dire to the downright nutty.

The Cross-Time Caper, even in its more dramatic moments, was still pure escapist fun. The storyline never took itself too seriously, and how could it? You had an ogre in jockey shorts, smoking a cigar, holding Kitty hostage in a giant glass jar; you had Kitty sitting in a bar right out of Star Wars, relating her tale to a bunch of babbling aliens; and you had a Speed Racer-style hotrod race with an alternate Jamie Braddock.

The story, even after all this time, even after growing up, is still as readable and enjoyable as it was the first time around. It provided images that will never leave me: Alistaire Stuart blushing in his kilt, Kurt expertly disarming his lovely opponent with a twirl of his swords, Kitty Pryde trying (and failing) to look sexy for Alistaire. And there were a few moments that, though glazed over at the time, were to set up more serious drama later on. Kitty Pryde took a life during the story, stabbing the Princess Anjulie in the back to save her friends. Though the event was not one of serious drama when it happened, Kitty's angst over this and other things she has had to do in her years as a mutant adventurer remain with her to this day.

The Caper deserves to be on the list because, taken by itself, it's actually an excellent symbol of what comics at their best have always been about: allowing readers to enjoy themselves by slipping away into another place, another time.
This entry written by Joel Phillips

<center><hr width=75%></center>

<a href="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/4images/data/media/85/mcp072.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/4images/data/thumbnails/85/mcp072.jpg" align=right alt="Marvel Comics Presents #72 – Weapon X"></a>#12: Weapon X
Marvel Comics Presents #72-84
Written By: Barry Windsor-Smith
Art By: Barry Windsor-Smith

There are two stars to this story: Wolverine and Barry Windsor-Smith. Of course, the story itself is about Wolverine, one of the most popular comic book characters ever created (and this is one of the tales that helped cement that position). But whereas most often in mainstream comics the creator is merely an instrument to tell stories about the characters, here the character is as much a vehicle to showcase the talents of the uniquely talented Barry Windsor-Smith, who not only wrote and penciled the entire story but also inked and colored it as well. The only aspect he left to another was the lettering (but more on that later).

Many ask what makes Wolverine so incredibly popular. Ask a middle schooler and the answer will typically fall into the response of “because he’s so kewl.” The claws, the attitude, the fact that he’s “the best there is” at what he does? Yes, but there’s something more: an almost iconic, archetypal quality. Wolverine is Oedipus. Not with the modern connotations of wanting to sleep with one’s own mother (though, as revealed in Origin, he did most likely kill his own father), but a powerful man easily angered into berserker rages on a quest to discover the secrets of his mysterious past, no matter the cost… and one who runs from his own destiny only to encounter it. Slap on a pair of claws and mousse up the hair a bit, and the tragic hero of Sophocles’ play cycle is a dead wringer for our own Logan. That mystery, that destiny, the forces of fate that shaped Logan into Wolverine, are explored for the first time in this quietly intense tale. A government agent, suspended for his violent behavior, drowns his sorrows in pills and booze. His oracle is a hotel called the Prophecy, and the nightmare visions he receives are of darkness, death, spikes, pain, bones and dagger hands. He contemplates the storm that’s coming, unaware of the forces slowly aligning, the threads of fate entwining around and about him. He’s soon abducted and taken to a testing facility where amongst the staff and guards we meet the three characters who will prove so pivotal to the destiny awaiting their captive. Cornelius, Hines and the ironically named Professor who appears to be in charge of the operation. They bond an unbreakable metal, adamantium, to his bones. They act surprised when an excess of the metal seems drawn to his forearms. Even moreso when claws protrude from his hands. He is set against creatures in the wilderness and trained to hunt, to kill, his mind controlled by machines… machines that cannot suppress his own killer instincts as he slips free of his control and tries to escape, to no avail. And we begin to realize that there is someone else in control of these operations, an unknown puppet master who holds even the Professor’s strings. As the surreal and Byzantine loops of the story lead us deeper into carnage, death and the twisted psyche of Wolverine, nothing is certain except that you can’t hope to control a weapon of such power as Weapon X.

The level of artistic unity that comes from Windsor-Smith handling almost every creative aspect of this book is astounding. While there is much to be said for the collaborative process and the kind of synergy it can infuse a work with, it is also compelling to watch a singular vision and drive create completely on its own. And the lettering of Jim Novak integrates Windsor-Smith’s text so deftly into his imagery that it becomes a part of the portrait, captions leading your eye across the page in ways it normally would not go, absorbing layers of information as it travels. But beyond the energy that comes from the creative process, there’s just incredible work here. The writing is utterly engaging and hypnotic, with a quiet intensity that makes you very aware of your own pulse and breathing, and how they both quickly get caught up in the rhythm and flow of the prose and dialogue. Each character has a distinct feel and tone. There’s a kind of sympathy for Cornelius, an affection built for Hines and while the Professor is at first viewed as the ominous antagonist of the piece, he is eventually revealed to be the most foolish of them all. And of course, there’s Logan: his despair at the beginning, his pain throughout, and his final twisted psychic journey, tearing himself apart. But even worse is when there is no fear, no hate, only the cold stare of a soulless killer. The first part hooks you in, and perfectly juxtaposes text and imagery to enhance or redefine meaning. The subsequent tale leaves you breathless and hungry for more (even more torturous, since this was first revealed in serialized short story form), driving you forward to the violent cathartic end. The attention to detail is astounding, and every panel breathes. The claustrophobia of the tank, the paranoia in the control room, the pain and desolation of the wilderness… and the fear. Fear bleeds through every word and picture. Fear of the unknown, fear of change, fear of death.

There are answers here, if you look for them. The fact that Wolverine’s claws might not be artificial is first hinted at here. The fact that a greater power was controlling the project is all but stated at several points throughout the piece… perhaps the calls were coming from the recently revealed Weapon Plus program? The hand of destiny is at work in this piece (you need only look at the very first two panels to see that), and it is our first peek into the mysteries of Logan’s origins. But for the mysteries it answers, it still leaves many behind. If Wolverine was found by the Hudsons and brought into Department H after the incidents in these stories, then why do both refer to him as Weapon X? Who really WAS the mastermind behind the project? And what really happens at the end? The best answers always leave more questions in their wake. The best stories never hand you everything on a platter, and they make you work for the answers you do get. In the case of Weapon X, the rewards are well worth the effort.
This entry written by Jordan T. Maxwell

<center><hr width=75%></center>

<a href="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/4images/data/media/188/uxmen390.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/4images/data/thumbnails/188/uxmen390.jpg" align=right alt="Uncanny X-Men #390 – The Cure"></a>#11: The Cure
Uncanny X-Men #390
Written By: Scott Lobdell
Art By: Salvador Larocca


I understand if you dislike this story. Many X-fans have nothing but bad things to say about the Legacy Virus as a story device, and have a hard time accepting this speedy resolution, not to mention its cost: the life of a popular X-Man, Colossus. Like I said, I understand if you don't like this story. But you're wrong to do so.

The purpose of this story, as the name suggests, is to cure the Legacy Virus, to take it off Marvel's table. For years the Legacy Virus had merely been sitting there, with a number of high profile names contracting the disease and then carrying on, business as usual, for years and years. For a deadly contagious disease there seemed to be no real danger involved in its presence in the Marvel Universe. It had become ineffective and something of an embarrassment, and the time had come to do away with it.

There are two things about this issue that irk fans. The first is the quick and easy solution to what should have been a very complicated problem (curing the Legacy Virus). The second, of course, is the death of Colossus.

The dispersal of the cure is quick and easy, maybe even a little too convenient. That said, the process of searching for that cure was anything BUT convenient, a process that took years and years of stories and was documented in staggering detail. In many ways that's how I imagine a cure to a real world disease might work: years of painstaking research, filled with alternating periods of no progress and sudden spurts of success, yielding an eventual cure. Once that cure was found, the process of distributing it to the public would ideally be a speedy one. Scott Lobdell does take a shortcut here, using Colossus' energy signature to disperse the cure across the world, curing everyone. Perhaps it would have been nice to see the process involved in actually getting the cure out to people, the X-Men traveling abroad and gathering sufferers together to inoculate them. But Lobdell's shortcut, though wanting for realism, sets up the focus of the issue: one man's struggle with himself, and what is the right thing to do.

Which brings us to Colossus. Peter's ending of his own life in order to cure the disease can be seen many ways, and all of them make perfect sense for who he is. You can see it as an act of heroism, a selfless sacrifice to ensure that no one else dies of this awful disease. You can see it as an act of penance, a way to punish himself and to pay for what he perceived as his failure in keeping his sister safe. Or you can see it as an act of cowardice, the actions of a man with nobody and nothing left to live for, taking the easy way out and using mock heroics as a veil for his own weakness.

I choose to see it as all of the above. Ever since the death of his sister from the Legacy Virus, Peter's life had been a spiral of pain and sorrow. He suffered so many defeats, so many tragedies that his very mental state was called into question. For years he was alternating between losing control and just hanging on, his emotional devastation displayed throughout the decade with a realism rarely seen in the medium. Here, in this single issue, that all comes to a head, to a single choice in a single moment, one that would come to define everything Peter Rasputin had become.

What makes this story worthy of inclusion on this list is the fact that Scott Lobdell realized that this was where the Peter Rasputin story HAD to end. There are some pains you don't heal from, and Peter had suffered several such injuries to his mind and soul. Peter Rasputin would have continued to wallow in that pain forever, only occasionally struggling, and failing, to free himself from its grip. Peter HAD to die, it was the only way to move the character forward, to end that struggle once and for all. And, in the Legacy Virus, Scott Lobdell found the ideal instrument with which to bring Peter to his devastating climax.

The final image of Peter lying on the floor, dead, is what this all comes down to: loss, pain, the end that must come for every new beginning. Lobdell's narration of the final scene reuses dialogue from Giant-Size X-Men #1, from Peter's struggle with whether or not to join the X-Men in the first place. The advice Peter is given for that first decision, when viewed in the context of his final decision, is the kind of send-off every major character ought to have: a fitting and poignant finale to this story, and to Peter's story.

"The Professor wants to take me with him, to teach me how to deal with my mutant powers. There is wisdom in his words, papa... but I am happy here. Tell me, papa... what should I do?"

"Do as your heart tells you, my son. It will not betray you."

"My heart tells me to stay, papa... but my conscience tells me otherwise. I must go, papa."

"Then, it is right that you do."

This entry written by Joel Phillips

<center><hr width=75%></center>

Be sure to check back next week for our fabulous finale: Part 4, #10-1! For more special articles, features, and columns celebrating the 40th Anniversaries of the Avengers and X-Men, click here! (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21464)

Youri Zoutman
Sep 15, 2003, 02:55 pm
Oh man, i love this list, i absolutely loved One Tin Soldier Rides Away and Weapon X just keeps on kicking @$$ even after all this years!!

Thank you all for this wonderfull feature!

Michael Fisch
Sep 15, 2003, 02:59 pm
I'm surprised that the Cross Time Caper made it this high, and I thought that Fall of the Mutants deseved a higher spot than Xtinction Agenda did. Hopefully those will be the last of the mega-crossovers in the list???

AoA is deserving of it's spot, though.

bugalugs1
Sep 15, 2003, 03:02 pm
Whoa!
there's some GOOOOD stuff there!
Very surprised AoA was only at 15, I'd thought that'd be much higher
I am SO glad that The Cross Time Caper was remembered though! That was what got me into Excalibur trhe same way Fall of The Mutants got me into X-men

I am really looking forwards to next week's final 10..hopefully, I'll have read this lot by then (damn you X-fan for making me pull the boxes out from under my bed!!) ;)

Tan K.
Sep 15, 2003, 03:07 pm
I was suprised Fall of the Mutants and X-Tinction Agenda were not at least in the top 15, but with all the great stuff, it makes it very hard for anything to get this high (even though FoM and XA were better than AoA).

DeadmanWade
Sep 15, 2003, 03:14 pm
I hope Deadpool 11 makes it. My fave story of all time but i doubt it. Since it can be classified as a spidey story more then an x...but dp is considered an x charcter

Zachary J. Morrison
Sep 15, 2003, 03:19 pm
Great list of choices here. I especially loved X-Men #110's One Tin Soldier Rides Away and Uncanny X-Men #390's The Cure.

Abbatoir
Sep 15, 2003, 03:22 pm
Deadpool 11 is a work of genius as is any issue of Kelly's run.

harlekein
Sep 15, 2003, 03:33 pm
The top ten is drawing closer and this is once again an amazing list which I wholehartedly agree with (although I haven't read them all)

Michael Fisch
Sep 15, 2003, 03:50 pm
Hey...can anyone tell me which issues of AoA Sal actually drew? I have all the issues but wasn't aware he drew any of them.

Joel Phillips
Sep 15, 2003, 04:12 pm
Originally posted by lockheed
Hey...can anyone tell me which issues of AoA Sal actually drew? I have all the issues but wasn't aware he drew any of them.

Gambit and the X-Ternals #3 & 4. He's also one of several credited pencilers on the Age of Apocalypse: The Chosen one-shot.

Bones
Sep 15, 2003, 04:16 pm
One Day the tin soldier shall return!!!!

doctorx
Sep 15, 2003, 04:16 pm
Suprised that the Fall of the Mutants was 20. I kinda like it, but I kinda thought it was boring at the same time. The start and ends were good, but the middles were too boring. Still this shouldn't have beat Inferno :mad: :p

:) @ the X-Tinction Agenda being there.....

What happened in Excalibur #20 as to not include it in the CTC?

Lockheed, Sal drew some issues of Gambit and the X-Ternals...(and I think he did one more of the specials, but I'm not sure)

Joel Phillips
Sep 15, 2003, 04:20 pm
Originally posted by doctorx
What happened in Excalibur #20 as to not include it in the CTC?

It was an unrelated solo story taking place before CTC, by another writer.

Scott Williams
Sep 15, 2003, 04:23 pm
Another well-done entry into this anthology, there are a number of inclusions I particularly agree with.

Age of Apocalypse was a very good choice; If even only for the concept itself, rather than the execution. The very idea of overhauling history for the summer was so radical that even if it didn't work as well as it did, it was great. My favourite titles of the AOA were Asonishing X-Men and Gambit & the X-Ternals (inexplicably,) for what it's worth.

The Cure is a story that a lot of people don't like, particularly Colossus fans. for the life of me, I can't understand why, but to me, that story was the only good thing Piotr ever brought to the X-Men. He was always there, but hadn't done much in decades. This was a great catharsis for the X-Men - getting rid of an unnecessary story and a somewhat unnecessary character, and simultaneously telling a dang fine story.

Oooohhh... the top ten are just around the corner! :excited:

doctorx
Sep 15, 2003, 04:31 pm
Thanks Joel....

--------------------------------------

Now, what's left...?
I'm guessing the Top 10 will DEFINATELY include...


The Dark Phoenix Saga
E is For Extinction
(Giant Sized X-Men #1)


And since every early X-Crossover has been included, I think it would be safe to say that we could include

The Mutant Massacre

I think Planet X should also make it, even just based on it's first issue alone. Or will it not be released in time for this column?
If not, that would be a shame.

Onslaught might make it too. I thought people generally hated this (I think it's okay), but I think I've seen lots of Moderators praise it.

I'm also guessing some really old issues like (UXM #1) will be included

Also the Wolverine story in Uncanny (I forgot the number) that features Captain America and the Black Widow seems to be well liked (Although I don't seen what the big deal is)

I'm also guessing on Lifedeath to be included

I really hope stuff from The Twelve (12), Acts of Vengence (The Psylocke stuff), and The Revolution make it. But, I doubt it. LOL

eLIAS bOGAN
Sep 15, 2003, 04:33 pm
Woah that was a very impressive list, but i really think "One Tin Soilder" "Fever Dream" and "Fall of the Mutants should have been #s 11-13. Fever Dream was one of my favorite issues and i when i finally got the back-issue i read it like 5 times before putting it down. That is Wolverine....not the imposter he's been since after the AoA....maybe they could reveal he was captured and impersonated by a skrull...oh wait they did that story...don't see thet story on the list, and rightfully so.

The Cross-Time Caper is one of the funniest stories ever in comics. Austen should go back and read this stories and learn how to write a comic book instead of watching Passions every day.

spinarakboi
Sep 15, 2003, 04:36 pm
Looking back at these... doesn't it just make you love the characters even more after seeing what they've all been through. It's very cool even though I haven't read 90% of these stories, there is so much history it's... i don't know... epic in itself.

Joel Phillips
Sep 15, 2003, 04:39 pm
Originally posted by doctorx
I think Planet X should also make it, even just based on it's first issue alone. Or will it not be released in time for this column?
If not, that would be a shame.

Well, we had our full Top 40 list picked before we even posted the first part, so that issue hadn't come out yet. And even if it had, we can't vote for a story we've only seen one tiny piece of. Besides, this list is for the top 40 stories of the last forty years. Technically, Planet X is a story of the NEXT forty years...

DancinFool
Sep 15, 2003, 04:59 pm
Word for word, Jordan Maxwell wrote down my feelings about the X-Tinction Agenda, right down to the Jon Bogdanove art. It really is a fascinatingly multi-level story that's working on SO many tiers. To all those who haven't read it, I recommed hunting down the TPB and drinking in the goodness. One thing he forgot to mention is the great, if abbreviated, fight between Archangel and Wolverine (not to mention the surprise winner, which really isn't a surprise if I point out that it's a surprise. It's Archangel.) which capitalized on YEARS of character development between these two characters that hasn't been TOUCHED since, besides a panel or two during Casey's run.

As for Uncanny X-Men #390, it came out just as I began following X-Men and comics in general. After having a good familiarity with the early 90's X-Men, and reading this on dotComics, I defy anyone, whether they LOVED Colossus or not, to read the final page with Colossus lying dead on the ground, in Cecilia Reyes' arms, with that first exchange between Peter and his father from Giant-Size and NOT tear up. It's so heartwrenching, and such a good story, that one page makes up for the loss of such a long-standing character.

Good list by all.

Meister
Sep 15, 2003, 05:09 pm
Words cannot express how I feel about Uncanny X-Men #390, and how glad I am it made this list. I too have lost a sibling to an incureable disease, and if I could, I would do the exact same thing Piotr did in order to prevent someone else from suffering the same fate.

In my near 15 years in the world of comics, it is the only comic that has ever made me cry.

doctorx
Sep 15, 2003, 05:27 pm
Originally posted by Joel Phillips


Technically, Planet X is a story of the NEXT forty years...

That sucks....when exactly was the deadline...September 2003? :mad
Ughhh...they should have just skipped that stupid Weapon Plus story... :p
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I also think X-Men (1-3) featuring Magento and the Acylotes will make the cut, along with another Morrison cut, either Riot at Xavier's or Murder at the Mansion

Joel Phillips
Sep 15, 2003, 05:31 pm
Originally posted by doctorx
That sucks....when exactly was the deadline...September 2003?

End of August, actually. Since the beginning of the forty years was September, that puts the end in August.

Ughhh...they should have just skipped that stupid Weapon Plus story...

Hey, I liked that story.

either Riot at Xavier's or Murder at the Mansion

Over my dead body.

Kevin Sutton
Sep 15, 2003, 05:45 pm
I don't much care for the name of Colossus' requiem. One Tin Soldier doesn't refer to anything good...

Additionally, I have to wonder about the appearance of so many character studies in this list. Is sympathizing and understanding the characters more important than epic or exciting stoires? (well...maybe...)

Tan K.
Sep 15, 2003, 05:48 pm
Originally posted by doctorx
Suprised that the Fall of the Mutants was 20. I kinda like it, but I kinda thought it was boring at the same time. The start and ends were good, but the middles were too boring. Still this shouldn't have beat Inferno :mad: :p

word


Originally posted by doctorx
Also the Wolverine story in Uncanny (I forgot the number) that features Captain America and the Black Widow seems to be well liked (Although I don't seen what the big deal is)

I love this story...

I really hope stuff from The Twelve (12)

don't make me puke. that was a waste of a great plot.

Originally posted by eLIAS bOGAN

The Cross-Time Caper is one of the funniest stories ever in comics. Austen should go back and read this stories and learn how to write a comic book instead of watching Passions every day.
:LOL:

Originally posted by spinarakboi
Looking back at these... doesn't it just make you love the characters even more after seeing what they've all been through. It's very cool even though I haven't read 90% of these stories, there is so much history it's... i don't know... epic in itself.
There is some good stuff nowadays, but other than a few hits, nothing comes close to the 1991 and before stuff. Nothing.

Originally posted by DancinFool
Word for word, Jordan Maxwell wrote down my feelings about the X-Tinction Agenda, right down to the Jon Bogdanove art. It really is a fascinatingly multi-level story that's working on SO many tiers. To all those who haven't read it, I recommed hunting down the TPB and drinking in the goodness. One thing he forgot to mention is the great, if abbreviated, fight between Archangel and Wolverine (not to mention the surprise winner, which really isn't a surprise if I point out that it's a surprise. It's Archangel.) which capitalized on YEARS of character development between these two characters that hasn't been TOUCHED since, besides a panel or two during Casey's run.



word


Originally posted by doctorx

they should have just skipped that stupid Weapon Plus story... :p

word
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Riot at Xavier's or Murder at the Mansion
I thought about it, but all of the Morrison acolytes on staff would have pushed these two stories into the top 5 somehow.

Joey Meyers
Sep 15, 2003, 05:49 pm
Surprised the "Demon Bear" story arc of New Mutants hasn't shown up yet...still there is the final part of the list still to go. Also, even though I don't think the "Road Trip" era of X-Force will be on the list, since if it would have been, it would have shown up already.

Madrox
Sep 15, 2003, 05:52 pm
I am geussing that Onslaught will be in the top ten but I feal like a lot of the storeis mentiond are better then that. AOA comes to mind.

Wolverine
Sep 15, 2003, 05:56 pm
Great choices. I love the Cure and X-tinction Agenda.

xander harris
Sep 15, 2003, 05:59 pm
I'm wondering where will the other arc stack up?:?

Gat0r-ManX
Sep 15, 2003, 06:00 pm
wow.. that's one great list. It brought me back some memories like the time when I read the One Tin Soldier Rides Away and the Cure. Those are some GREAT stories. I'm glad they made it into the list.

Once again, GREAT LIST! thank you! :D

iceman06
Sep 15, 2003, 06:05 pm
The reasons for why some people don't like UXM #390 didn't include my reasons. Lobdell admitted in print that Colossus was his least favorite X-Man, and it showed throughout the 90's. Colossus wasn't boring; Lobdell just didn't know what to do with him. When Lobdell was temporarily rehired, he had some unfinished business to take care of...he had to put an end to that writing challenge he could never overcome named Colossus. I believe that Colossus did what Colossus would have done given the circumstances, but why was he given those circumstances? Lobdell had the supergenius Beast leave the cure which was just stated to kill it's user out in the open in a syringe with the mentally unstable Colossus moping around right after he got his hopes up. Lobdell to Colossus via Beast: "Die!"

I can appreciate his ability to tell a touching tale, but for this to be ranked on the basis of quality, I need the X-Men to know being stupid, brave, and impulsive are some of their teammate's major characteristics, that said teammate desperately wants this disease cured as soon as possible because it killed his precious baby sister, that you don't announce cures until you're ready for people to demand it, and that no one leaves medications/cures lying around in syringes ready to be handled by anyone. I just didn't get the feeling it was the #11 X-Men story of all-time when I read it. It only gets merit for killing a major X-Man and ending a poorly handled subplot.

Jesse Baer
Sep 15, 2003, 06:10 pm
This list is, like its predecessors, fantastic, good work.

As for the top 10, I think it's safe to say that the Dark Phoenix Saga will be on it, and most likely Days of the Future Past and Mutant Massacre.
The Proteus story has a pretty good chance, E is For Extinction does too. Probably Uncanny 132-134: vs. the Hellfire Club and including Wolverine alone. Maybe the original Brood saga.

As for the rest, I would like to see at least one of Stan Lee's original run, probably #1 or #12 (introduction of Juggernaut); Giant Size X-Men 1; I'm sure we'll see at least one Ultimate X-Men story, probably Weapon X or the first few issues. And then I'm sure we'll get plenty of surprises.

Mike Gonzalez
Sep 15, 2003, 06:22 pm
Ok, Tan K... where should I write out the check to?

Riliss
Sep 15, 2003, 06:25 pm
AOA was brilliant, and it's the reason i read x-titles.

Mitch Brown
Sep 15, 2003, 06:42 pm
Loved your write-up of X-Tinction Agenda, Jodran. Completely with you on the art too. Fantastic story, especially for a crossover..just the art went off the rails, particularly in the final chapters. Al Milgrom just doesn't do it for me at all.

Cross-Time Caper!!! Whoooo...great story, only problem I had was the way it started to drag. There was a while there that I really just wanted it to end, but overall Excalibur was a fantastic read back then.

Fever Dream & Weapon X - greatest Wolverine stories ever written IMO. Fever Dream was the issue that actually warmed me to that damn mallrat.

I wouldn't have put the Lobdell Colossus death issues so high, like Lobdell himself Peter's one of my least favourite X-Men (though I loved the Post-Siege Perilous artist Peter..go figure). But it does go to show how much he's missed by many other fans.

Having not read AoA I can't comment on that one..I went on hiatus from the X-titles somewhere around Legion Quest, didn't come back until just before Alan Davis' run. So I missed Xero Tolerance and Onslaught as well.

Dark Phoenix & Future Past are shoe-ins into the top 10. Same with E is for Exctinction I would say. The others though, I'm kind of at a loss to predict.

Keep 'em coming, love the trip down memory lane...

GuyX
Sep 15, 2003, 06:43 pm
Good list, agreed with everything written up there, with the exception that I thought AoA should be higher.

Cant wait for top 10

Jordan T. Maxwell
Sep 15, 2003, 07:00 pm
Originally posted by doctorx
I really hope stuff from The Twelve (12), Acts of Vengence (The Psylocke stuff), and The Revolution make it. But, I doubt it. LOL

The Twelve??? Oh my god, you just made me vomit in my own mouth...:p

Originally posted by DancinFool
Word for word, Jordan Maxwell wrote down my feelings about the X-Tinction Agenda, right down to the Jon Bogdanove art. It really is a fascinatingly multi-level story that's working on SO many tiers. To all those who haven't read it, I recommed hunting down the TPB and drinking in the goodness. One thing he forgot to mention is the great, if abbreviated, fight between Archangel and Wolverine (not to mention the surprise winner, which really isn't a surprise if I point out that it's a surprise. It's Archangel.) which capitalized on YEARS of character development between these two characters that hasn't been TOUCHED since, besides a panel or two during Casey's run.


You want MORE in that X-Tinction Agenda write up??? Man, you guys are gluttons for punishment. Yes, the fight was really sweet. Here are a few more highlights: young Storm and Jean reminiscing, and their Arthurian musing...the brief nudity (which seemed to happen a lot more often back then)...Hodge's cardboard body (LOL!)...the first Cyclops and Havok fight...Jubilee playing babysitter...Wolverine and Jean's kiss...the cameos from She Hulk, Punisher and assistant editor Suzanne Gaffney...Beast's mutate number...Gambit's rather clever (and painful) lockpicking technique...the Magistrate's 11th hour turn...Warlock's ashes on Doug's grave.

Originally posted by SuperMutant
I don't much care for the name of Colossus' requiem. One Tin Soldier doesn't refer to anything good...

Additionally, I have to wonder about the appearance of so many character studies in this list. Is sympathizing and understanding the characters more important than epic or exciting stoires? (well...maybe...)

I think there's a bit of irony there. A tin soldier is usually a term used for a rather useless individual, but it's also a rather fitting description when taken literally of Colossus. Now, maybe Lobdell meant it rather backhandedly since he apparently didn't like Piotr. But i loved the big Russkie and that's how i read it.

And character studies aren't more important than big epics. We just want to emphasize that they're JUST as important, as deserving as attention and as crucial to the development and popularity of this franchise as the big monolothic crossovers.

Originally posted by Tan K.

There is some good stuff nowadays, but other than a few hits, nothing comes close to the 1991 and before stuff. Nothing.

I thought about it, but all of the Morrison acolytes on staff would have pushed these two stories into the top 5 somehow.

While i am a fan of today's stories (my love of Morrison is well documented) and think some of them will earn their place in the canon of "great X-Stories" (that is, the ones that haven't already), you can't argue that 91 and before didn't produce some amazing stuff...between 91 and 01 was rather stagnant with occasional spikes of brilliance...and i think with the sweeping changes that have been allowed, we'll be seeing more of that pre 91 creativity flowing for years to come. I hope so, anyway.

And as Chief Acolyte of Our Lord Morrison (tips hat to philhunn), i don't need those stories in the Top 5...just a healthy dose of Morrisonian goodness on the list at all will sate my religioius fervor. :cool:

jota
Sep 15, 2003, 07:56 pm
I was glad to see WeaponX in the list. I think it should be higher. I love that story. After I read it for the first time I couldn't get over just how good it was

NicholasRogue
Sep 15, 2003, 08:21 pm
Great list guys, I love the Fall of the Mutants, Uncanny X-Men #390, and X-Men #110, plus the X-Tiction Agenda, Weapon X and Age of Apocalypse are good too. I've never read the Excalibur one, I might have to pick it up. Kitty's Fairy Tale is a classic. Anyone noticing how alot of the X-Men's greatest stories are starring Kitty? Just wondering:D :kitty:

Suzene
Sep 15, 2003, 10:05 pm
Goodness gracious, someone remembered that the Cross-Time Caper existed! The best cover out of the lot is even representing too. Excellent.

So this means that X-Men/Alpha Flight "The Gift" is in the Top Ten, right? ;)

Suzene

Stormy
Sep 15, 2003, 10:12 pm
oy, again I find my knowledge of classic X-men lore sadly lacking. So many entries from Claremont's 80s run that I've never read. And even though I've read most of AoA, the two series mentioned specifically here I've never read. I have to say I'm surprised AoA didn't place higher, but we'll see what the top 10 has in store.

I quite agree with the inclusion of both the Colossus and Kitty Legacy virus issues. That last page of Uncanny 390 was note perfect.

I remember reading Gambit & the X-ternals 3 and 4 and loving the art by this then-unknown artist. To rediscover him with the launch of X-treme years later was a big treat for me.

Allison Wright
Sep 15, 2003, 10:34 pm
These lists make me want to go find all the back issues I've missed. Really interesting stuff. I was really hoping AOA would make it. I was a moderate fan of the original X-Men cartoon, so I decided to check out the comics. Picked up the first part of AoA it was all downhill from there. :) Anxiously awaiting the next installment.

Dragon
Sep 15, 2003, 10:39 pm
I agree with all thous both the AOA, it is by far one of the best stories EVER and belongs in the top ten atleast

Blademaster
Sep 15, 2003, 11:16 pm
Originally posted by Bones
One Day the tin soldier shall return!!!!

Hopefully :). He's one of my favourite X-characters as well. Although if that happens it will take away the importance of his sacrifice in #390 if he's just going to come back regardless.

Originally posted by Dragon
I agree with all thous both the AOA, it is by far one of the best stories EVER and belongs in the top ten atleast

Agreed. It's definitely one of my favorites.

Jordan T. Maxwell
Sep 15, 2003, 11:28 pm
well, just imagine what DID make the top ten then...i don't have to imagine. I already know. And i'm not telling. :p

xgene
Sep 15, 2003, 11:44 pm
Definately some great picks there guys. As much as people don't like the death of Colossus, it was the first issue of Uncanny I bought and really made an impact.

Kavalier
Sep 16, 2003, 01:16 am
Originally posted by doctorx
Suprised that the Fall of the Mutants was 20. I kinda like it, but I kinda thought it was boring at the same time. The start and ends were good, but the middles were too boring. Still this shouldn't have beat Inferno :mad: :p


Agreed, the more things that beat the Inferno, the wierder I feel about this list. Inferno certainly wasn't the BEST thing ever written, but it was certainly better than the X-Tinction Agenda (Which I liked) and many others.

I love the idea of the list, and am enjoying remembering several of the stories that I had long forgotten. Kitty's Fairy Tale, for one. However, comparing a story like the fairy tale to some massive crossover like AoA seems like apples and oranges to me. The amount of solidly written single issue stories are plentiful, but the well written crossover, maxi-series is something truly special.

Anyway, I guess we all know where this list is heading...

K

Jordan T. Maxwell
Sep 16, 2003, 01:22 am
I have three words for why i personally voted Inferno so low...

"demon hair drier."

Al Harahap
Sep 16, 2003, 01:30 am
Good stuff, guys. :cheers:

I'm glad Kitty's Fairy Tale, The Cross-Time Caper, The Cure, and One Tin Soldier Rides Away made it this high. Very, very good stories.

The only one I could never get was AoA. I never saw it as more than a glorified "What If?" story that played off of readers' "Ooh, I wonder what s/he is like in this reality" sensibilities. Ironically, what I like most about it is its effects on Marvel proper -- i.e. Dark Beast's role in the Morlocks and Sugar Man's role in Genosha -- which is what most people seem to hate about it.

I've forgotten what the Top 10 are, and I think I'll keep myself in suspense so I can be surprised. :hrm:

lavar78
Sep 16, 2003, 02:49 am
Originally posted by iceman06
The reasons for why some people don't like UXM #390 didn't include my reasons. Lobdell admitted in print that Colossus was his least favorite X-Man, and it showed throughout the 90's. Colossus wasn't boring; Lobdell just didn't know what to do with him. When Lobdell was temporarily rehired, he had some unfinished business to take care of...he had to put an end to that writing challenge he could never overcome named Colossus. I believe that Colossus did what Colossus would have done given the circumstances, but why was he given those circumstances? Lobdell had the supergenius Beast leave the cure which was just stated to kill it's user out in the open in a syringe with the mentally unstable Colossus moping around right after he got his hopes up. Lobdell to Colossus via Beast: &quot;Die!&quot;

I can appreciate his ability to tell a touching tale, but for this to be ranked on the basis of quality, I need the X-Men to know being stupid, brave, and impulsive are some of their teammate's major characteristics, that said teammate desperately wants this disease cured as soon as possible because it killed his precious baby sister, that you don't announce cures until you're ready for people to demand it, and that no one leaves medications/cures lying around in syringes ready to be handled by anyone. I just didn't get the feeling it was the #11 X-Men story of all-time when I read it. It only gets merit for killing a major X-Man and ending a poorly handled subplot.

I agree completely. I don't care how touching the story was -- it still doesn't make any sense. I'm not willing to ignore that. It's bad enough Colossus was killed in such an unrealistic story, but it's much worse considering Beast is made to act like a complete idiot to accomplish it.

Does Marvel realize Mikhail is alive? They've allowed Lobdell and company to slaughter the rest of the Rasputins, so I'm sure they're looking to finish the job.

I'm convinced many of the voters have never read the New Mutants. I have to believe NM #45 (Larry Bodine) is in the top 10 (I can't even imagine it would be ignored), but I'm quite shocked that the Demon Bear Saga, Asgardian Wars (my favorite), NM #4, and NM Annual #2 haven't made an appearance -- particularly the first two.

magiklover
Sep 16, 2003, 03:19 am
This was a tremendous list, I would not change one story on here.

I am proud to say ive read every arc/ish on this list except the crosstime caper(which i would, if i had some money for excalibur back issues)

I definitely agree on the cure, Colossus is one of my least fave x-men as well because he was a huge betrayer, he betrayed his mother Russia to start with, then he betrayed his x-men and became the proletarian for a ish, then he dissed Kitty for that stupid healer in the Secret Wars, then he lets my Magik become a stupid 7 year old again (grrrr), then he lets her die, then he joins mags!, and hes just boring(thats just my opinion there) and you people like this guy? My opinion is, it was about time someone killed him.

Weapon X, The first trade i ever bought(i was obsessed with actual issues b4) and still my personal fave(of the trades i have.). I AM A MAN! is one of the best lines ever in comics.

I am so shocked by the amount of posters on the boards tho that havent read any of Claremont's original run, I wouldn't be into comics if it weren't for his stories, and characters, almost every x-character that people love... he created. I am jsut glad to have read his full run... and glad i don't ever have to resort to choosing the twelve, or anything of that disgraceful quality as my top stories of all time.

I saw someone mention New Mutants 45... Definitely one of my favorite issues ever... it really touched me to the core. And the cover... very nice.

I hope dark Phoenix will be #1, it is popular for a reason, it was the first back ish story i ever read, and it was the reason i collected the x-men hardcore ever since.

But i know one thing no wonder how the top ten looks, i will probably tend to agree, as the writers of these articles have explained their choices well and have good reasons for each choice.

Thank you guys for letting me relive my favorite X-stories and lettin me know that many people share my opinions and love for the x-men.

Jordan T. Maxwell
Sep 16, 2003, 04:22 am
Originally posted by Al Harahap
Good stuff, guys. :cheers:

I'm glad Kitty's Fairy Tale, The Cross-Time Caper, The Cure, and One Tin Soldier Rides Away made it this high. Very, very good stories.

The only one I could never get was AoA. I never saw it as more than a glorified &quot;What If?&quot; story that played off of readers' &quot;Ooh, I wonder what s/he is like in this reality&quot; sensibilities. Ironically, what I like most about it is its effects on Marvel proper -- i.e. Dark Beast's role in the Morlocks and Sugar Man's role in Genosha -- which is what most people seem to hate about it.

I've forgotten what the Top 10 are, and I think I'll keep myself in suspense so I can be surprised. :hrm:

Yeah, easy for you Harahap...some of us have to do the freaking write ups for these things, y'know! No appreciation for us guys behind the scenes, i tells ya...;)

And for those wishing for stories that haven't made it on yet...like the Demon Bear Saga or Asgardian Wars or Onslaught or the Twelve...listen, we had to wade through forty years of compelling and very rich mythology with incredible stories spread throughout. And we only got to pick forty of em! Part of the fun of the nomination process was reading everyone else's list and going "oh yeah, how could i forget THAT one? That's classic!" But sadly, with that limit, some stories just aren't gonna make it now matter how amazing they were and still are.

And some of them...well, some of them just suck and you have bad taste in comics. :p

The Big Q
Sep 16, 2003, 04:31 am
Weapon X rules. Very subtle, very eerie. The juxtaposition of the tortured man in the tank with the utterly nonchalant observers. The question of who really are the animals, able to do calculated harm to someone to further their own agenda.

Feed.

Jordan T. Maxwell
Sep 16, 2003, 04:41 am
Impeded.

;)

mic
Sep 16, 2003, 06:23 am
I love AoA, its also what got me into the X-Men, and the cure issue was great, it was after a two-year absence from comics and was my first Uncaccy issue. zit blew me away and I actually got me reading the X-books again. Oh and Onslaught has definitely got to be in the top ten, its actually what led me to the rest of the MU.

Tan K.
Sep 16, 2003, 09:38 am
Originally posted by Jordan T. Maxwell
I have three words for why i personally voted Inferno so low...

&quot;demon hair drier.&quot;

I put a hit out on you and Omar for being partially responsible for Inferno's low ranking.....wake up, wake up....Sorry, Jordan, that was the fanboy in me talking. I'll change it to a maiming hit.


Originally posted by lavar78


I agree completely. I don't care how touching the story was -- it still doesn't make any sense. I'm not willing to ignore that. It's bad enough Colossus was killed in such an unrealistic story, but it's much worse considering Beast is made to act like a complete idiot to accomplish it.

Does Marvel realize Mikhail is alive? They've allowed Lobdell and company to slaughter the rest of the Rasputins, so I'm sure they're looking to finish the job.

I'm convinced many of the voters have never read the New Mutants. I have to believe NM #45 (Larry Bodine) is in the top 10 (I can't even imagine it would be ignored), but I'm quite shocked that the Demon Bear Saga, Asgardian Wars (my favorite), NM #4, and NM Annual #2 haven't made an appearance -- particularly the first two.

First part: Lobdell single handedly messed up a lot of stuff (like the British). HOWEVER, the story was very well written (not sure if it shoulda been this high either).

2nd part: I beg to differ.

Anthony Lucynski
Sep 16, 2003, 09:55 am
(Giant Sized X-Men #1)


Dear god I hope not. It's got historical signifigance, but it's definatley not a top ten story.

Anthony L

Alex Guillen
Sep 16, 2003, 11:33 am
I'm glad Ahe of apocalypse is in here, it was quite complicated at times but still very good.
Also the lobdell issue with the death of colossus to find a cure to the Legacy Virus and the next issue about Kitty saying goodbye to her love were really greay, one of the bets and very touching. RIP colossus.
I'm so glad issue #2 od Marvels is in here, one of the best stories told from the human perspective of Phil sheldon.

thewrite1
Sep 16, 2003, 12:13 pm
Originally posted by Stormy
I quite agree with the inclusion of both the Colossus and Kitty Legacy virus issues. That last page of Uncanny 390 was note perfect.

I totally agree. I was holding back the tears throughtout the whole story and then I read that poignant excerpt from Giant-Size on the last page and I sobbed for the next ten minutes. Whether or not the writer hated Colossus, this issue could not have been written any better. A respectable sendoff for this wonderful character, it definitely deserves its place at number 11.

Giant-size X-Men as someone has suggested is not one of the most well-written stories of any genre and will not be in the top forty. An enjoyable story but I think space limitations meant that the it wasn't as fluid as it should have been.

I'm going to have to get hold of that Uncanny with Wolvie on the cross. It sounds like a fascinating tale.

Oh, and the Cross Time Caper is definitely funny and set the tone for the whole series but was it really one of the best stories ever written? After all, it did seem to drag by the end and some really interesting worlds were merely glanced at while the characters went off elsewhere. It took ages to get to its conclusion, but I guess you could say that about the Legacy Virus too.

lavar78
Sep 16, 2003, 12:34 pm
Originally posted by Tan K.
2nd part: I beg to differ.

Which part? My perception that there's a lack of appreciation for the New Mutants, my opinion that the stories I listed are great, or both?

Originally posted by thewrite1


Whether or not the writer hated Colossus, this issue could not have been written any better. A respectable sendoff for this wonderful character, it definitely deserves its place at number 11.



Ways "The Cure" could've been written better:

1. Beast wouldn't have announced the alleged cure. Really, how exactly did he know it was going to work if a mutant had to die for it to take effect? That's not something he could've tested. A smart guy like Hank would never have taken a chance that the "cure" could've killed a mutant and then not worked.

2. Why didn't Hank evaluate other options? Off the top of my head, asking for a Legacy sufferer to take the cure would've been number one. Likewise, giving Logan the virus and hoping his healing factor would save him would've been next.

3. Why is the "cure" in a freakin' syringe? Sorry, I can only suspend my disbelief so much. That's preposterous!

4. Why would he leave the syringe out for anyone to take? If Hank had really found the cure to the Legacy Virus (easily the biggest scientific breakthrough of his life), I highly doubt he would leave it laying around for the hell of it.

Granted, the story is touching. Colossus was my favorite X-Man. I honestly believe Lobdell did a good job with Piotr. However, the entire story revolves around Hank McCoy acting like a bumbling buffoon. This story makes the dumbest thing Hank did up until then (take the formula that turned him blue) seem like the mark of a genius. Even more than Colossus fans, Beast fans should be up in arms about that issue. It's truly a tale of two character assassinations.

Joel Phillips
Sep 16, 2003, 12:48 pm
Originally posted by lavar78
I agree completely. I don't care how touching the story was -- it still doesn't make any sense. I'm not willing to ignore that. It's bad enough Colossus was killed in such an unrealistic story, but it's much worse considering Beast is made to act like a complete idiot to accomplish it.

Does Marvel realize Mikhail is alive? They've allowed Lobdell and company to slaughter the rest of the Rasputins, so I'm sure they're looking to finish the job.

I understand your concerns about the story, as I said in the entry. But I do still feel the good outways the bad, heavily. I don't expect to change your mind, I'm just saying.

Also, despite what Tan says, I think Lobdell did a good job with the X-Men. Of the entire nineties era he did easily the best work with the franchise.

I'm convinced many of the voters have never read the New Mutants. I have to believe NM #45 (Larry Bodine) is in the top 10 (I can't even imagine it would be ignored), but I'm quite shocked that the Demon Bear Saga, Asgardian Wars (my favorite), NM #4, and NM Annual #2 haven't made an appearance -- particularly the first two.

New Mutants is one of my favorite series ever, actually. Four of the five stories you just listed were amongst our nominees (I know because I nominated them), but like Jordan said... we only forty spots. And since the list was decided by the combined opinion of the staff as a whole, it was dependant on the majority thinking them worthy of inclusion. Which didn't happen here, much as I'd have liked it to.

TracyNichols
Sep 16, 2003, 01:44 pm
Wow...kudos for putting CTC on the list. I LOVED that arc....it's such a shame Excalibur couldn't remain that good throughout it's 125 issues of existence.

X-tinction Agenda was what got me into the X-Men in the first place. Fever Dream...Fall of the Mutants *sigh* They just don't write 'em like that anymore...

Tan K.
Sep 16, 2003, 02:20 pm
Originally posted by lavar78

I'm convinced many of the voters have never read the New Mutants.

Originally posted by lavar78

Which part? My perception that there's a lack of appreciation for the New Mutants, my opinion that the stories I listed are great, or both?


This part.

ronaldmcdonald
Sep 16, 2003, 04:00 pm
age of apocalypse at #15 - not bad.
i have every issue except for the age of apocalypse: the chosen,
what's it all about?

Tan K.
Sep 16, 2003, 04:05 pm
it's about getting more money out of the readers.

lavar78
Sep 16, 2003, 04:46 pm
Originally posted by Joel Phillips


I understand your concerns about the story, as I said in the entry. But I do still feel the good outways the bad, heavily. I don't expect to change your mind, I'm just saying.

I can appreciate your POV. OTOH, most people don't seem to see anything wrong with the story (and it's that POV I can't understand).

Also, despite what Tan says, I think Lobdell did a good job with the X-Men. Of the entire nineties era he did easily the best work with the franchise.

I'm sure you'll be surprised I completely disagree with this. I think FabNic was much more consistent overall. Nevertheless, the highlight of the 90s IMO was the brief Seagle/Kelly era. I'd welcome those men back to the books in a heartbeat.

New Mutants is one of my favorite series ever, actually. Four of the five stories you just listed were amongst our nominees (I know because I nominated them), but like Jordan said... we only forty spots. And since the list was decided by the combined opinion of the staff as a whole, it was dependant on the majority thinking them worthy of inclusion. Which didn't happen here, much as I'd have liked it to.

Out of sheer curiosity, I'd love someone who's read NM #45, the Demon Bear Saga, and/or the Asgardian Wars to explain why he/she feels they aren't in the top 40 X-stories. I'm not criticizing anyone's opinion, but I'm genuinely interested.

Anthony Lucynski
Sep 16, 2003, 04:55 pm
Out of sheer curiosity, I'd love someone who's read NM #45, the Demon Bear Saga, and/or the Asgardian Wars to explain why he/she feels they aren't in the top 40 X-stories. I'm not criticizing anyone's opinion, but I'm genuinely interested.

I've just found most New Mutants stories to be incredibly boring. Even the ones mentioned on this list in the X-Tinction Agenda.

Anthony L

lavar78
Sep 16, 2003, 05:33 pm
Originally posted by Anthony Lucynski


I've just found most New Mutants stories to be incredibly boring. Even the ones mentioned on this list in the X-Tinction Agenda.

Um, those ones are boring -- most because they were done by Weezie and Liefeld. Any NM after #54 is basically complete garbage (with the notable exception of #81). IMO, of course ;)

Anyway, I meant the specific issues I mentioned. #45 (part of the TPB X-Men Visionaries: Chris Claremont) is the story of Larry Bodine (featuring the oft-quoted speech by Kitty), the Demon Bear Saga is #18-20, and the Asgardian Wars (available as a TPB) is X-Men/Alpha Flight, NM Special Edition #1, and X-Men Annual #9. I'd be shocked if you found those three boring.

Tan K.
Sep 16, 2003, 05:47 pm
You may be right about Demon Bear, etc. being one of the all time greats, but every site, publication will have their own opinion depending on the staff. Unfortunately, it didn't make our list. There are ones on our list that I don't care for, but other staff members can say the same about ones I like. That's why I honestly feel our list is pretty representative of old/new/mid readers (except for the placement of Inferno and a couple of others....I think I am approaching 100 posts in regards to Inferno. What? I haven't? Then I have more work to do. ;))

Wolverine
Sep 16, 2003, 06:10 pm
Originally posted by Tan K.
it's about getting more money out of the readers.

Damn right!!;)

Papillon
Sep 16, 2003, 07:18 pm
Wow. This list just keeps getting better and better. This is the first entry, though, that I have some thoughts on:

1.) Thank you for singling out the Uncanny entry in "Fall of the Mutants." It summed up everything in Claremont's run and did it in a genuinely exciting, moving way. X-Factor was hurt a little by the first entry, in that it hammered home the symbolism of the masks too heavily, but the last entry and its happy ending was a surprise for that era. And personally, the less said about the New Mutants entry, the better. :#

2.) I'm surprised that the AOA ranked outside of the Top Ten. To me, it was the first X-over done right, and the individual stories were pretty darn great. And thanks for singling out X-Calibre and Generation NeXt. The ending of the latter can still floor me.

3.) It took guts to place Piotr's death that high. While it still strikes me as a quick & simple way to tie up the plotline, the last page and its send-off for him was probably one of the most beautiful things written in an X-book. It takes a lot to overlook the many plotholes, but if taken on its own, that final page is a fitting farewell. Still, I would've given it a lower rank, probably out of the top twenty.

I'm looking forward to the last entry, and I sincerely hope the Larry Bodine story will rank. It was the best story in the New Mutants title, and it would be nice to see something from this first X-spinoff on the list besides a dismissal.

Anthony Lucynski
Sep 16, 2003, 07:36 pm
3.) It took guts to place Piotr's death that high. While it still strikes me as a quick & simple way to tie up the plotline, the last page and its send-off for him was probably one of the most beautiful things written in an X-book. It takes a lot to overlook the many plotholes, but if taken on its own, that final page is a fitting farewell. Still, I would've given it a lower rank, probably out of the top twenty.


I liked the sendoff of Peter because it was real and well documented. Anybody who even paid attention to Peter knew that he'd eventually snap and take his own life. It was just a matter of time. Like the real world, there isnt a lot of drama most times in these situations. You're with a guy one day, next moment you wake up to find out he's dead. I can respect Scott Lobdell for keeping it real.


the Asgardian Wars (available as a TPB) is X-Men/Alpha Flight, NM Special Edition #1, and X-Men Annual #9. I'd be shocked if you found those three boring.

Prepare to be shocked: I've read every issue of New Mutants, including the Asgardian Wars. They were all wastes of money and the only issues that remain in my collection are the Liefeld issues, because i'm a Liefeld completist and a Deadpool freak.

And even those issues sucked.

I never connected with the New Mutants, nothing excite me about them. I had more fun reading Maximum Carnage, and that blew.

Anthony L

lavar78
Sep 16, 2003, 07:55 pm
Originally posted by Anthony Lucynski


Anybody who even paid attention to Peter knew that he'd eventually snap and take his own life. It was just a matter of time. Like the real world, there isnt a lot of drama most times in these situations. You're with a guy one day, next moment you wake up to find out he's dead.

Come again? The first part and the second part seem completely opposed to one another. In my experience, the second part is true: you don't know when someone is going to take his own life (although it may seem that way in retrospect). It just happens. I'd guess there would be a lot less suicide attempts if it were so easy to spot beforehand.


Prepare to be shocked: I've read every issue of New Mutants, including the Asgardian Wars. They were all wastes of money and the only issues that remain in my collection are the Liefeld issues, because i'm a Liefeld completist and a Deadpool freak.

And even those issues sucked.

I never connected with the New Mutants, nothing excite me about them. I had more fun reading Maximum Carnage, and that blew.


I'm actually not shocked. As soon as you said you're a Liefeld completist, I realized our tastes are almost completely opposite. ;) However, I *am* shocked you read 100+ issues of a book you didn't enjoy. I'm enough of a masochist to read Chuck Austen's Uncanny (the worst comic ever), but I certainly can't hold on that long.

Anthony Lucynski
Sep 16, 2003, 08:02 pm
I used to be an X-completist. (hangs head in shame). I had complete runs of New Mutants/X-Force, X-Men, X-Factor, Wolverine..you get the idea. One day I woke up and realized (after looking at about 20 or so longboxes of comics) that buying ever issue just to have a full run was stupid. I now only buy what I like, and sell what I dont.

I'm actually not shocked. As soon as you said you're a Liefeld completist, I realized our tastes are almost completely opposite

What a completly ignorant statement. Liefeld is one of many, many artists and writers that I have a fondness of, and it's not even because I think he's a great artist (one day I may write a column about why I like Liefeld, but I digress).

Anthony L

lavar78
Sep 16, 2003, 08:10 pm
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Anthony Lucynski
What a completly ignorant statement. Liefeld is one of many, many artists and writers that I have a fondness of, and it's not even because I think he's a great artist (one day I may write a column about why I like Liefeld, but I digress).

If you had paid attention to the winking emoticon, you would've noticed it was a tongue-in-cheek statement. Relax.

Nevertheless, I have nothing but disdain for Liefeld's "art" and "writing." Obviously, YMMV.

Anthony Lucynski
Sep 16, 2003, 08:13 pm
I demand satisfaction! (slaps lavar in face with gloves)

Anthony L

Jim Lemoine
Sep 16, 2003, 08:45 pm
Down, boys. Keep it on-topic in here.

I believe there's a dueling thread set up in Harry's Hideaway....

Jordan T. Maxwell
Sep 16, 2003, 11:02 pm
Originally posted by lavar78


I can appreciate your POV. OTOH, most people don't seem to see anything wrong with the story (and it's that POV I can't understand).

Out of sheer curiosity, I'd love someone who's read NM #45, the Demon Bear Saga, and/or the Asgardian Wars to explain why he/she feels they aren't in the top 40 X-stories. I'm not criticizing anyone's opinion, but I'm genuinely interested. [/B]

Yeah, i don't see much wrong with the story, other than the fact that the cure spread so quickly...Beast's overexcitement, exhaustion and frustration can easily account for many of his actions that could be seen as foolish. If you'd dedicated a good portion of your life, intensely and diligently trying to find a cure and failed at every turn...only to finally succeed at a great sacrifice already, it'd be hard to contain one's self. Yes, Beast is a doctor and a man of reason...but he's also a man of great emotion and passion as well. Makes total sense to me, and i LOVE this issue (one of the few saving graces of Lobdell's latter run for me).

And i loved the early New Mutants stories...but they're not as widely available (and thus as widely read) as some other stories. And you can't vote for or even nominate something you haven't read, sadly.


Originally posted by Tan K.
You may be right about Demon Bear, etc. being one of the all time greats, but every site, publication will have their own opinion depending on the staff. Unfortunately, it didn't make our list. There are ones on our list that I don't care for, but other staff members can say the same about ones I like. That's why I honestly feel our list is pretty representative of old/new/mid readers (except for the placement of Inferno and a couple of others....I think I am approaching 100 posts in regards to Inferno. What? I haven't? Then I have more work to do. ;))

that's it Tan...where in Texas are you? Cuz i'm driving from Austin to beat ya over the head once and for all with my trade copy of Inferno. Honestly, if the story had just been the X-Factor and X-Men chapters, i'd have been fine with it. It was the ludicrous New Mutants chapters that dragged it down for me. Sad to say...

Originally posted by Anthony Lucynski

Prepare to be shocked: I've read every issue of New Mutants, including the Asgardian Wars. They were all wastes of money and the only issues that remain in my collection are the Liefeld issues, because i'm a Liefeld completist and a Deadpool freak.

And even those issues sucked.

I never connected with the New Mutants, nothing excite me about them. I had more fun reading Maximum Carnage, and that blew.

Anthony L

Yeah Anthony, i've never understood this Liefeld thing you've got going on...;)

Um...do you still have any of those old New Mutants? Because i definitely would NOT consider them a waste of my money and might be tempted to barter. :D

magiklover
Sep 17, 2003, 02:26 am
Uh-oh, Someone Liefeld bashed, Anthony L is gonna go Deadpool on you guys now :p

I like Liefeld too but i have to disagree with some of you guys hatred of the New Mutants, That is my favorite comic ever. But I realize that most of the stories are truly not the top 40 of all time. Although Ish 45 was amazing to me.

Ok! And the people who are complaining about the new mutants issues of inferno are right... (and i Love the new mutants!) But first they let those dang X-terminators or whatever join, then they had magneto hanging with the Hellfire Club. And then The Deaged MY MAGIK! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Jordan T. Maxwell
Sep 17, 2003, 02:28 am
no no no, all that was fine and good...repeat with me now: "demonic hair drier." ;)

Mike Gonzalez
Sep 17, 2003, 07:50 am
If I see Mutant Massacre in the top 10, then my three favorite stories will be fully represented (MM, Inferno, and FotM).

Tan K.
Sep 17, 2003, 09:32 am
Originally posted by Jordan T. Maxwell

that's it Tan...where in Texas are you? Cuz i'm driving from Austin to beat ya over the head once and for all with my trade copy of Inferno. Honestly, if the story had just been the X-Factor and X-Men chapters, i'd have been fine with it. It was the ludicrous New Mutants chapters that dragged it down for me. Sad to say...



:LOL:


Originally posted by Bebi
If I see Mutant Massacre in the top 10, then my three favorite stories will be fully represented (MM, Inferno, and FotM).

You are wise beyond your years.

Mike Gonzalez
Sep 17, 2003, 09:53 am
Originally posted by Tan K.


You are wise beyond your years.

Now if my university would recognize that and just give me my damn law degree now!

Anthony Lucynski
Sep 17, 2003, 10:33 am
Um...do you still have any of those old New Mutants? Because i definitely would NOT consider them a waste of my money and might be tempted to barter.

Sold them all on ebay. Only got 50 bucks for them (complete run, mind you). I both love and hate that website.

Uh-oh, Someone Liefeld bashed, Anthony L is gonna go Deadpool on you guys now

I could of sworn my guns were hidden....

Come again? The first part and the second part seem completely opposed to one another. In my experience, the second part is true: you don't know when someone is going to take his own life (although it may seem that way in retrospect). It just happens. I'd guess there would be a lot less suicide attempts if it were so easy to spot beforehand.

I forgot to address this part: In PETER'S case, anybody who followed him knew the dude was ready to crack. The strongest soldier of them all, even HE couldnt take this day in, day out. Family Slaughtered, the tradgedy of your brother going nuts, your baby sister dying, your love betraying you. My god, i'm suprised he didnt slit his through after Fatal Attractions! So that's what I mean by that.

But IN REAL LIFE, often suicide is something that just happens. People are stupid, and they dont pay attention to the warning signs. We have the luxery as readers to pick up ona fictional characters's distress and hardships. Unfortunatley, in reality, lots of times we are human, and just dont see it until it's to late, and the person is gone. Which is why I loved the Death of Collosus so much, is because WE saw it coming, his team-mates DIDNT, and it had both the build up and the quick, untimley suprise.

Anthony L

lavar78
Sep 17, 2003, 11:45 am
Originally posted by Anthony Lucynski


I forgot to address this part: In PETER'S case, anybody who followed him knew the dude was ready to crack. The strongest soldier of them all, even HE couldnt take this day in, day out. Family Slaughtered, the tradgedy of your brother going nuts, your baby sister dying, your love betraying you. My god, i'm suprised he didnt slit his through after Fatal Attractions! So that's what I mean by that.
You keep saying that, but it doesn't make it true. Piotr's suicide was certainly a possibility, but it's a bit short-sided to say "anybody who followed him" knew he was about to crack. It could be argued that he cracked in Uncanny #304 (and really, I almost cracked after reading that garbage) and/or when he beat Wisdom in Excalibur. After the Christmas issue with (young) Illyana's ghost, it seemed like he was ready to move forward and accept the loss of his family (thanks again, Lobdell). Interestingly enough, because Mikhail is still alive (as an aside, the thought of Piotr's sacrifice saving Mikhail is just wrong) and the teenage Illyana is presumably in limbo (pun intended), Piotr is the only one of the siblings who is definitely dead.

bmannes
Sep 17, 2003, 12:02 pm
FEVER DREAM is the best X-Men single issue EVER!!! Thank you!

Jordan T. Maxwell
Sep 17, 2003, 06:33 pm
Originally posted by lavar78
You keep saying that, but it doesn't make it true. Piotr's suicide was certainly a possibility, but it's a bit short-sided to say &quot;anybody who followed him&quot; knew he was about to crack. It could be argued that he cracked in Uncanny #304 (and really, I almost cracked after reading that garbage) and/or when he beat Wisdom in Excalibur. After the Christmas issue with (young) Illyana's ghost, it seemed like he was ready to move forward and accept the loss of his family (thanks again, Lobdell). Interestingly enough, because Mikhail is still alive (as an aside, the thought of Piotr's sacrifice saving Mikhail is just wrong) and the teenage Illyana is presumably in limbo (pun intended), Piotr is the only one of the siblings who is definitely dead.

Well...i don't think it's ever been implied that teenage Illyana still exists in any realm, least of all Limbo (and if so, why would Amanda Sefton be the new Magik?). and it was a huge mistake to bring back Mikhail anyway and the only reason he was really brought back into our realm was for The Twelve (and i can hardly see how that can be used to justify, well, anything...::kicks effigy of Alan Davis::). Your parents were murdered by your own government. Your little sister is taken tragically by a disease, something you couldn't fight. Your older brother who you used to idolize has gone rather insane. You sacrifice your dreams and life to a cause, then abandon it in despair only to realize that the other options aren't that great either so that you don't know what to believe in anymore. And Chris Claremont gives you a ponytail...i mean, who WOULDN'T want to end it all?

His death always kind of reminded me of Hamlet...this guy who's losing everything that means anything to him, trying desperately in every way to fix his life but everything he does just seems to make it worse. And finally finds peace and meaning in what he knows will be his death. Tragic, stupid, human...but ultimately, yes, heroic.

lavar78
Sep 17, 2003, 09:07 pm
Originally posted by Jordan T. Maxwell


Well...i don't think it's ever been implied that teenage Illyana still exists in any realm, least of all Limbo

It was implied in the very issue she disappeared (the NM finale to Inferno). Rahne and the others found the young Illyana in Limbo and brought her back to Earth. Later, after a flash of light, Colossus is holding the Magik armor and the young Illyana is inside. Everyone assumes Magik was de-aged, but it seems more likely that the two Illyanas were switched (if they weren't, where did the young Illyana go?). At any rate, the story is nothing if not vague. Add in the fluctuating nature of time in Limbo and it's certainly plausible that teenage Illyana still exists (somewhere). The lack of a story about it so far doesn't eliminate the possibility.

Jordan T. Maxwell
Sep 18, 2003, 03:33 am
Yeah, but it would take one hell of a writer to make that story not come out as crap...I never read it as Illyana being de aged so much as she "gave up" her timeline, which kind of took her back to that age before it all happened which WAS the little girl that they found. So there was no Illyana as Magik. Sort of like if you were writing a story and got to a certain point, realized you'd gone off track and wanted to start back at, oh, paragraph three...so you delete back to paragraph three. It's no longer there. And in the final analysis, that version doesn't exist. But it DID exist. If that makes sense at all. Just the best analogy i can come up with.

Please, God forbid the day i ever open up a comic book, a portal opens and Magik walks out: "Hey, what'd i miss?" Ugh.

lavar78
Sep 18, 2003, 09:21 am
Originally posted by Jordan T. Maxwell
Yeah, but it would take one hell of a writer to make that story not come out as crap...I never read it as Illyana being de aged so much as she &quot;gave up&quot; her timeline, which kind of took her back to that age before it all happened which WAS the little girl that they found. So there was no Illyana as Magik. Sort of like if you were writing a story