THE TOP TEN MARVEL X-ARTISTS

[Jim Lemoine]

<img src="http://pages.sbcglobal.net/harahap/top10xa1a.gif" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"></a>The Top Ten Marvel X-Artists
Assembled and Edited by Tan K.

If legendary artist Neal Adams had not been around to salvage some interest in the X-Men way back when, would we even have the X-Men today? Who would have influenced new artists had talents like Art Adams, Jim Lee, and Marc Silvestri never existed? How would Wolverine look without Dave Cockrum, Apocalypse without Jackson Guice, Deadpool without Rob Liefeld, or Kitty without John Byrne? Would the stories be as strong if other artists had rendered the images for Days of Future Past, E is for Extinction, Tomorrow People, or Cross-Time Caper?

The X-Men and their various titles have for years been at the forefront of the comic book industry. One very important piece of that success has been the variety of incredible artists that have continuously graced the pages of the X-universe. One would be hard pressed to find another comic book franchise that could rival the quantity and quality of artists of that the X-books have possessed. The only hard part we found when looking for the best of the best, was narrowing that list down to a mere ten.

So with great excitement, the staff at ComiX-Fan would like to present to you the Top 10 X-Artists of All-Time.

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#10: CHRIS BACHALO
X-Resume:Generation X, Uncanny X-Men, New X-Men

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/bachalo.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"><a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/bachalo_team.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/bachalo_teamt.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"></a>After a healthy run on Shade: the Changing Man, Chris Bachalo hit the big time with his acclaimed rendition of Neil Gaiman's Death in Death: The High Cost of Living. Knowing talent when they see it, Marvel's Bullpen quickly nabbed Bachalo merely a year later as ongoing artist for their new spinoff X-book, Generation X. It is during his run on this book that Bachalo cultivated his art to a higher level. Straight from the get-go, readers were wowed by his ability to transform a typical scene into a visual marvel by using its negative space to complement the subjects. Simplistic rectangular panels on a white page weren't enough for Bachalo. His sequential art would be shaped by leaves, bubbles, or whatever else a scene called for. Truly breaking creative boundaries with his unique style, this pioneering X-artist has earned his spot in this hall of fame.
This entry written by Al Harahap

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#9: JOHN ROMITA, JR.
X-Resume:Uncanny X-Men

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/romita.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"><a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/romita_team.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/romita_teamt.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"></a>The son of the most definitive Spider-Man artist ever (next to Steve Ditko), John Romita Jr. attacks his work with the professionalism of a man taking over the family business. JRJR has produced not one, but two incredible runs on Uncanny X-Men. His initial run in the 80's began just after the landmark Phoenix and continued to include, among other memorable moments, The Trial of Magneto and the Mutant Massacre. While at first influenced by his predecessor, Paul Smith, Romita's sharp line work and innate sense of action and drama soon evolved into his own unique style. A second run in the 90's (with such memorable events as the return of Magneto and the introduction of the Phalanx) showcased a rougher but more dynamic style that would further evolve into the fan favorite artwork on his current run of Amazing Spider-Man. All these accomplishments aside, he can go down in X-Men history as the only artist to draw two hundred-issue milestones (Uncanny X-Men #200 and #300).
This entry written by Jordan T. Maxwell

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#8: JACK KIRBY
X-Resume:X-Men (vol.1)

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/kirby.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"><a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/kirby_team.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/kirby_teamt.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"></a>They didn’t call him "King" Kirby for nothing. If we were doing a list of comic artists period, you’d be seeing his name a lot higher on the list. Kirby’s art has become synonymous with the Silver Age, and with greatness. Entire articles could be written (and have been) about the vastness of his contributions to the industry, about the sheer number of characters, stories and settings he brought to life. Though Jack Kirby did not draw very many X-Men stories, he drew the first ones. He created the image of the original X-Men and some of their greatest foes. Like with so many franchises, Kirby got the ball rolling by generating heroes and villains whose images were distinctive, memorable, and wholly theirs. Jack Kirby earns a spot on this list for the simple fact that without him there would be no X-Men: his run, however brief, made the runs of every other artist on this list possible.
This entry written by Joel Phillips

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#7: SALVADOR LARROCA
X-Resume:Excalibur, Uncanny X-Men, X-Treme X-Men

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/larroca.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"><a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/larroca_team.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/larroca_teamt.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"></a>You may think Salvador Larocca is too new to be on a list of the all-time greatest X-artists. But greatness knows no limits, and in just a few short years Larocca has made a name for himself with his wonderful artwork. The only way to describe the art of Salvador Larocca is beautiful: everything Larocca draws is instantly gorgeous, something to be stared at and admired for its polish and perfection. His twenty-four issue run on X-Treme X-Men, with his pencils filled in by the luxurious colors of Liquid!, absolutely leapt off the page. His work is at once real and surreal, so perfectly rendered as to give the appearance of something improving on reality. With Larocca now set to come back onboard Uncanny X-Men in the near future, perhaps his best contributions to the annals of X-artwork are yet to come.
This entry written by Joel Phillips

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#6: JOE MADUREIRA
X-Resume:Uncanny X-Men

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/madureira.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"><a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/madureira_team.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/madureira_teamt.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"></a>Bursting onto the scene for an ongoing run on Uncanny X-Men, Joe Madureira astonished readers with his fresh, dynamic style. The risk at placing a relative newcomer on Marvel's flagship title payed off -- big. With pointed knuckles and other exaggerated features, Madureira's characters leapt off the comic page. Essential to the visually extravagant X-Men of the 90's, Madureira defied the norms and continually redesigned their appearances, even using the unorthodox, but memorable, Shi'ar space costumes custom-made for individual X-Men that spanned storyarcs. But more importantly, he brought back a strong sense of fun into reading the X-Men that more realistic renditions lacked. While Madureira -- or "MAD" as his loyal fans have come to call him -- has fallen off the comics radar, he leaves behind a legacy that paved the way for the Amerimanga style to be appreciated in not only X-books, but also the rest of mainstream comics.
This entry written by Al Harahap

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#5: ADAM KUBERT
X-Resume:Wolverine, Uncanny X-Men, Ultimate X-Men

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/kubertadam.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"><a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/kubertadam_team.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/kubertadam_teamt.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"></a>Like his brother Andy, Adam's artistic style has been greatly influenced by his father, Joe Kubert. What is striking is that even though both brothers are so easily linked to their father, Adam and Andy's style are so distinct from one another. Adam possesses a loose realism to his art. He at times can draw dead-on perfect characters, but then when appropriate, he can bring an ethereal feel to the page. He greatly impressed me with his assignment on Wolverine #75 (see Fatal Attractions). He made Wolverine come to life. Once Marc Silvestri left Wolverine, I did not know if another artist would be able to satisfy my artistic tastes. Adam Kubert did just that. The growth in his art can be seen in the pages of Uncanny X-Men and Ultimate X-Men. The cherry on top is that he possesses the ability to express emotion across the page. Many high-bill artists fall short when it comes to this. In the end, Adam Kubert in his career as an artist is as solid as they come by having been able to rise to the occasion of complementing wonderfully written comics and being the sole bright spot in an era when quality was hard to find.
This entry written by Tan K.

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#4: ANDY KUBERT
X-Resume:X-Men (vol.2), Origin

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/kubertandy.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"><a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/kubertandy_team.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/kubertandy_teamt.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"></a>As son of Joe Kubert, comic book veteran and pioneer, Andy Kubert has come from an artistic background along with his brother Adam. Andy Kubert has penciled some of the greatest X-Men stories of the 90's; thus creating epics. His style has a rough and sketchy look akin to Jim Lee, helping to mold the standard image of the X-Men for the 90's. X-Cutioner’s Song, Fatal Attractions, The Ties That Bind, and Phalanx Covenant are only some of the stories that he aided in making milestones. Andy's rendition of Scott and Jean's wedding, and Magneto brutally ripping the adamantium out of Wolverine's body, are probably two of the most memorable images in X-Men history. Also, Andy’s art has not lost its value at all over time. Recently, Andy crafted arguably his greatest work with Origin. The story of the beginnings of Wolverine was a masterpiece of Kubert depicting the rustic setting and a young, ferocious Logan. Andy Kubert deserves his place in this list of greatest X-Men artists.
This entry written by Omar A. Safi

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#3: JOHN BYRNE
X-Resume:Uncanny X-Men, X-Men: The Hidden Years

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/byrne.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"><a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/byrne_team.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/byrne_teamt.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"></a>The comic book, at its best, is about the fusion of the image and the concept, of the art to the writing. In John Byrne’s collaborations with Chris Claremont we see quite possibly the best example of how writer and artist become one. Throughout his tenure on Uncanny X-Men, Byrne was in the business of birthing legends generating some of the most iconic imagery in the comic medium. Things like the reality-twisting Proteus, the opulent Hellfire Club, and the sun-scorching Dark Phoenix were all brought to life by his masterful pencils. Byrne’s work is as timeless as it is stunning, his recent work on X-Men: The Hidden Years showing that his style works just as well today as it did twenty years earlier. John Byrne is one of the greatest X-artists because his work is forever tied to some of the greatest X-Men stories ever told. Though Chris Claremont made works like The Dark Phoenix Saga and Days of Future Past into great stories, John Byrne made them into classics. It is his vision of those great adventures that lingers in our mind’s eye and remains tied to those classic tales forever.
This entry written by Joel Phillips

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#2: MARC SILVESTRI
X-Resume:Uncanny X-Men, Wolverine, X-Men vs. Avengers

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/silvestri.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"><a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/silvestri_team.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/silvestri_teamt.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"></a>There are many aspects to art: ability to tell a story, facial/body structure, realism/abstractness, and deliverance of action. There are many artists that have mastered pieces of this formula; I dare to say that Marc Silvestri has mastered all of them. In my opinion, the strength of his art lies in his lovely faces and body structures and realistic take of the human form. Then to top it all off, he adds a dynamic energy to his panels. They come alive. He utilizes contorted poses as well as streaming wells of living energy to raise his style to another level. This is what drew me to his art. As a long time fan of his, I have witnessed his artistic skill progress through the pages of X-Men vs. Avengers, Uncanny X-Men, and Wolverine. I think I can honestly state that stories like Fall of the Mutants, Inferno, and various others would not have been as spectacular without his presence. As one of the artists that revolutionized art and influenced a generation of would-be pencilers, Marc Silvestri's place as one of the all-time greats is well-deserved.
This entry written by Tan K.

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#1: JIM LEE
X-Resume:Uncanny X-Men, X-Men (vol.2)

<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/lee.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"><a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/lee_team.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10artists/lee_teamt.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Top 10 X-Artists"></a>There are artists who define an era, whose styles are so distinct and iconic that they forever leave their mark upon a book. For many readers of the X-Men, that artist is Jim Lee. Not since the redesigns of Neal Adams and Dave Cockrum had an artist so changed the look of the X-Men that it would resonate for years to come. The change came as Marvel created a spin off title, the then adjectiveless X-Men, just to showcase the talents of this fledgling young artist and veteran scribe Chris Claremont (Lee also helped with the plots for the series). Lee created new costumes and a new energy for the team (apparently to much approval, as they were used as the designs for the hit cartoon series), using a style reminiscent of such diverse greats as Frank Miller and Arthur Adams. It was heightened realism. It was dramatic. It was action packed. It was sexy. It was far too short-lived. All told, Lee's entire run on the X-Men titles lasted for only a couple of years. But in that time, he left his mark so permanently upon the books that despite his creating the Wildstorm universe of titles and an acclaimed run on Batman, despite the incredible roster of artists to work on the books after him, Jim Lee and the X-Men would forevermore be tied together in the minds and hearts of fans everywhere.
This entry written by Jordan T. Maxwell

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For more special articles, features, and columns celebrating the 40th Anniversaries of the Avengers and X-Men, click here! (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21464)

[Joey Meyers]

No Bill Sienkiwicz or Art Adams, eh? Ah well, good choices anyway.

[Dan20]

Not a bad list...I think I might replace Bachalo and Larocca with Dave Cockrum and Neal Adams, though.

[harlekein]

No Dave Cockrum? Oh well, its a nice list anyway.

[theory]

i was too surprised not to see dave on the list. but id agree jim lee has had the biggest effect on the x-franchise in our time, if not all time. when people think of the xmen they usually see his versions.

[aswang]

where is jae lee? or better yet, the question...

WHERE'S WHILCE PORTACIO!!!

[Brett White]

Good list, but I have to seriously question Paul Smith's exclusion. Yes, he only penciled 9.5 issues, but they are simply beautiful works of art. Really, just read the "From The Ashes" TPB. It's amazing. He's defintely one of my top 3 favorite X-Artists and I think that his work is greatly underappreciated. Of course I can't forget to mention his amazing covers and near-definitive rendition of Kitty Pryde with the cover to UXM 168.

Other than that, I'm quite pleased. I'm very glad that Andy Kubert is above Adam since I've always enjoyed his art much more. Chris Bachalo's inclusion is a treat as well.

[lavar78]

Originally posted by lonewolf21
No Bill Sienkiwicz or Art Adams, eh? Ah well, good choices anyway.

You took the words out of my mouth. I'm not sure Art did enough material, but Bill S. was the most revolutionary X-artist of them all.

I'd also put JRjr a little higher on the list. His first run is always underrated. Still, pretty good overall. I've never really enjoyed the Kuberts, but I can see their appeal. Most importantly, Liefeld is nowhere to be found. Kudos for that! This is the best anniversary list so far.

WHERE'S WHILCE PORTACIO!!!Finishing up the third issue of Wetworks?

[zeroplate]

Any kind of greatest list is always going to be subjective, but I would have thought Walt Simonson might have made the list. His work on X-factor defined a lot of characters (Archangel, Apocalypse, Nanny and the Orphan Maker, etc). As much as I love Bachalo's style, I think it worked best early on in defining the Generation X characters and that little corner of the x-universe. It looks strangely out of place when he's drawing Wolverine with 3 foot long claws and and an Emma that looks 18 years old. The whimsical stuff gave Generation X character but it doesn't always seem right for the other X-Books.

Madureira's work is always fun too, but like Bachalo's it isn't quite as iconic as some of the other artists listed here. When I think of the X-Men, I think I'll always envision either the Byrne or Lee version of the characters as the definitive look and feel. Nice list. I'd be interested to see a list of cover artists since unfortunately, some of the best work ever done on these titles was done on covers only and not carried on to the inside pages.

:doop:

[DragoonKain]

I agree that Jim Lee should be #1, his art drew me into x-men in the first place. Also agree that Larroca, Byrne, Romita, Adams and Kubert belong on the list. But you left out 3 extremely important x-artists:

1. Neal Adams - probably the most groundbreaking panels in comic book history. Not to meantion incredible art that was ahead of its time.

2. Dave Cockrum - created some of our favorite X-Characters. Can't leave him off a top 10 x-men artist list.

3. Bill Sienkiwicz - probably the most distinctive and impressive art done in comics. Really put the art in comic book art. Plus, he created my favorite character. Warlock!

[cookepuss]

I guess it does boil down to personal taste.

Here's my top 10
10. Alan Davis
09. Joe Madureira
08. Bill Sienkiwicz
07. Frank Quitely
06. Chris Bachalo
05. Bret Blevins
04. Walt Simonson
03. John Byrne
02. Sean Chen
01. Art Adams

[Zachary J. Morrison]

That's a good list. Out of the list with a bunch that weren't on the list, my favorites would have to be Jim Lee, the late Jack Kirby, Salvador Larocca, John Byrne, Adam and Andy Kubert, Dave Cockrum, Sean Chen, Alex Maleev, David Finch, Carlos Pagulayan, and Marc Silvestri.

[DragoonKain]

Ooh yeah, forgot about Walt Simonson too. Let's face it they really haven't had too many bad artists. I don't much like Quitely's art though, the characters look too different and unrecognizable (although I like the way he draws Cyclops).

[dasklein83]

Is Neal Adams not being on here some kind of joke? Never mind that he single handedly saved the book and is one of the greatest artists of all time? I mean, Andy Kubert over Neal Adams? Byrne should have been number one, with Adams at second and Lee at third. I've loved these lists so far, but this is just bizzare.

[cookepuss]

Too many people to list. *sigh*

It's probably easier, though more controversial, to list the worst X-artists. That'd fry people's bacon alright. :)

[punisher18]

Not a bad list...but...

Neal Adams should've been in the top 3. I would've put Bill Sienk in there too. Paul Smith's another one.

I find the Kuberts are overrarted. They're good at what they do, but i never found any of their works inspiring. I would've put them just outside the top 10. And I hated Romita Jr's work

Personally i'd have it like this...

1. John Byrne
2. Neal Adams
3. Jack Kirby
4. Bill Seinkiewitz
5. Jim Lee
6. Paul Smith
7. Carlos Pecheco
8. Joe Mad
9. Chris Bachalo
10. Sal Larroca

[Zach Kinkead]

No Arthur Adams, Paul Smith (best X-artist ever!), Ethan VanSciver, or Dave Cockrum? I guess that’s what I get for not contributing to the list :shame:

[Deadpool49]

I'm happy that John Romita Jr. made the list. This guys such an underrated artist and yet he's done some serious runs on marvels best books, and his X-Me run is no different.

[Brett White]

Originally posted by punisher18

Carlos Pacheco


Yes! Really, when it comes down to it, Salvador Larrocca is just a less stylistic version of Carlos Pacheco in my opinion. Pacheco's collaboration with Joe Kelly provided the hands-down best work on Adjectiveless post Nicieza/Kubert. I would consider Pacheco to be a modern day Paul Smith since he is a highly stylized artist who depicts stories beautifully and can handle emotion amazingly well. I wish Carlos Pacheco would have gotten the opportunity to replace Sal on X-Treme...

[cookepuss]

I think that if you put Kirby on the list that you have to also put on Jose Ladronn, the spiritual successor to Kirby.

[Mike Gonzalez]

I demand a recount. Cockrum IS the all-new, all-different X-Men.

[doctorx]

I would remove Jack Kirby, Chris Bachalo, John Romita Jr, and John Bryne from that list.

I would add Bret Blevins, Tony Daniel, Ethan Van Sciver, and Ian Churchill

Also, I'd have MAD! at (#1 or 2)

[JayQ]

I agree with most of the list. Especially Jim Lee, Andy Kubert, John Byrne, but I gotta say, Neal Adams deserves to be on the list. Higher then Bachalo, whos art is decent, and different, but Neal Adams, as you said influenced many x-artists and ranks up there with jim lee, Jack kirby, and the rest. But thats just my opinion, and Im sure you had your reasons

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

well, it's hard to fit forty years of some of the greatest artists to grace the medium into a ten person list...i think we tried to give props to other great artists along the way (i know i for one went out of my way to sneak in references to Adams (both Neal and Adam, Cockrum and Smith into my entries...sneaky bastard that i am). But with so many artists to consider and so many factors beyond just sheer talent, eventually some great people are going to get short changed...

...also, anyone who would remove Jack Kirby, John Byrne and John Romita Jr. from ANY list of top ten artists in favor of Bret Blevins and Ian "the Liefeld genetic grafts are taking well, doctor" Churchill is sure to have a nice little room for them waiting in the wings of Arkham "rest home."

:D

[Michael Fisch]

I'd remove at least one Kubert from the list (the one that didn't do Origin...I forget which). While fairly decent artists, the bulk of their work was rushed and it showed in the results. I remember reading issues in the 90s where I couldn't tell the difference between Warren or Bobby or Alex if it weren't for costumes or coloring.

I'd replace them with Arthur Adams (a mortal sin to not recognize the king of X-Men Annuals) and Dave Cockrum (who really deserves Jack Kirby's mostly honorific placement).

[Joel Phillips]

I'll rise in defense of the list as well... kinda. I'm totally with you all on the exclusion of Cockrum, who I'd not only have included but would have put fairly high. Bachalo I'd have dumped.

Neal Adams I can reconcile with being left off, even though he's a great artist no question. He and Kirby are both legends, but both did comparitively little X-work. So why include Kirby and exclude Adams? Because Kirby was the first EVER. Sorry, but that counts for something. (That said, both Kirby and Adams were on my personal ten list. But anyway...)

Smith and Bill S. are great. I don't take issue with either pick, and I wouldn't complain if they had made the list. There just wasn't enough room, and that's the way this one went. Sorry.

I can't even comment on the ridiculousness of a lot of the other names being tossed out. At least not without some childish name-calling, pointing and laughing, and probably some profanity.

Oh, and whoever said Byrne should have been number one: I tried. I only got one vote, but I tried.

[cookepuss]

It'd probably be easier to break it up by book (ie. Who defined or redefined that book.)

Generation X = Bachalo
New Mutants = Blevins
X-Factor = Simonson
(New) X-Men = Quitely
Uncanny X-Men = Byrne
Wolverine = Chen
X-Force = Pollina
Cable = Liefeld (sad, but true. his career highlight)
X-Man = Scroce
Excalibur = Alan Davis
Annuals = Art Adams

[magiklover]

This List isn't too bad... but... Chris Bachalo should not be on here in favor of either Cockrum, Neal Adams(he has his own X-men visionaries trade for pete's sake!) or Heck, Liefeld is better suited for this list than Bachalo(That one's for you Anthony L)

[Wolverine]

Good work Lee. Remove Adam Kubert replace him with Cockrum and I'm fully cool with the article. Also change Bachelo with Liefeld. Lifeld's New Mutants/X-force is damn incredible

[cookepuss]

I don't know. I think that his New Mutants run was awful. His X-Force run was so much better. Maybe it had something to do with the book's relaunch & shift in direction. No way could Liefeld handle a proper New Mutants book, one based on students instead of soldiers. Can you imagine Liefeld trying to draw a road trip? :p

[Zach Kinkead]

Originally posted by Wolverine
Also change Bachelo with Liefeld

Nononononononono! Bachelo is one of the few there who belongs on the the list (though more for his Gen X work than anything he's done in the core books)

[W. Molstad]

I'm sorry, but I disagree a little - Jim Lee at #1 just doesn't seem right.. maybe in the top three though. Silvestri also may deserve to be in there, but what about Dave Cockrum?!? And in my opinion, John Byrne was the greatest X-Artist...

I'd kick off Kirby and Andy (not Adam) Kubert. I really disliked Andy's art back in the day. He always drew pointy noses. Since he's tried to be more like his bro (as in Origin) - his art has gotten better.

Get ready to add Mike Allred to this list when the 50th anniversary comes up (can't wait to be old... NOT!)

[cookepuss]

Allred's awesome. Unfortunately, he fits into the same category as Mafood. Both'll probably never be appreciated for many years to come. :(

[W. Molstad]

Originally posted by cookepuss
Allred's awesome. Unfortunately, he fits into the same category as Mafood. Both'll probably never be appreciated for many years to come. :(

I mean, Allred's consistent and he does a great job. His characterizations are awesome!

Mafood! I love that name.

[Joey Meyers]

Originally posted by cookepuss
New Mutants = Blevins

Blevins over Bill Sienkewicz or even Sal Buscema as definitive New Mutants (well volume one anyway) artist? WOw...I'm surprised.

[W. Molstad]

Originally posted by cookepuss
It'd probably be easier to break it up by book (ie. Who defined or redefined that book.)

Generation X = Bachalo
New Mutants = Blevins
X-Factor = Simonson
(New) X-Men = Quitely
Uncanny X-Men = Byrne
Wolverine = Chen
X-Force = Pollina
Cable = Liefeld (sad, but true. his career highlight)
X-Man = Scroce
Excalibur = Alan Davis
Annuals = Art Adams

Alan Davis! Crap. I forgot about Alan Davis. Alan Davis rules!

Liefeld... ick... his only strength is in self-parody.

[doctorx]

Originally posted by Jordan T. Maxwell
...also, anyone who would remove Jack Kirby, John Byrne and John Romita Jr. from ANY list of top ten artists in favor of Bret Blevins and Ian "the Liefeld genetic grafts are taking well, doctor" Churchill is sure to have a nice little room for them waiting in the wings of Arkham...

:D

And who would that be? :D
Jack Kirby helped revolutionize the X-Men and all that stuff, but at the end of the day, the bottom line is that his art isn't appealing as other artists to me. Now, do you people seriously like his art, :o or are you just putting him done because he is a "legend"?

I think John Romita is improving, but his first run on X-Men was horrid, and his second one was OK, but when you compare him to the person before him (Portacio) and after (MAD!), his art pales by far.

The art on Bryne's first X-Men run was EXCELLENT, but His art on the Hidden Years takes him off my list.

Ian's work on Cable and the first issues of the Uncanny relaunch were :D

Bret Blevins is not my favorite either, but he was a replacement that came to mind. :D I loved his rendition of the New Mutants

[Patrick James]

I love this list. I do see it personally, as Byrne, then Lee, then Silvestri at the top, but otherwise the list is perfect.

Except for Bachalo, who's art just doesn't agree with me, I can't argue with a single one.

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

Originally posted by doctorx


And who would that be? :D
Jack Kirby helped revolutionize the X-Men and all that stuff, but at the end of the day, the bottom line is that his art isn't appealing as other artists to me. Now, do you people seriously like his art, :o or are you just putting him done because he is a &quot;legend&quot;?

I think John Romita is improving, but his first run on X-Men was horrid, and his second one was OK, but when you compare him to the person before him (Portacio) and after (MAD!), his art pales by far.

The art on Bryne's first X-Men run was EXCELLENT, but His art on the Hidden Years takes him off my list.

Ian's work on Cable and the first issues of the Uncanny relaunch were :D

Bret Blevins is not my favorite either, but he was a replacement that came to mind. :D I loved his rendition of the New Mutants

Yeah, that would be you i'm addressing...

Ahem. Kirby didn't revolutionize the X-Men...he CREATED them. If that doesn't almost get you a buy into a top ten list (being their CREATOR) then i don't know what does. Now, if you had said he revolutionized comic books as a medium, then we could agree. Jack Kirby was one of the most dynamic and brilliant artists of his or any time. People become legends for a reason, folks. And you don't just randomly toss out titles like "King" to any joe shmoe working in the industry.

How anyone could describe John Romita Jr. as "horrid" is beyond me. I mean...i don't even know how to relate to that. The guy is consistently one of the hardest working and nicest professionals in the field. He gets the job done. He doesn't see himself as a great artist, and you gotta love modesty. :) Beyond just being an utter professional, his art is just so dynamic and dramatic and distinct (i feel like Neil Gaiman, coming up with all the D words, lol). Personally, i have to stare at Whilce Portacio's artwork for a couple of minutes before i can tell what's going on on the page...so frenetic and indistinct, lines going this way and that. No real sense of form or composition. And Joe Mad...well, i do enjoy some of his stuff, but that amerimanga stuff just doesn't cut it next to JRJR for me. Especially since JRJR actually gets his stuff done on time. It's a crime and a travesty that he's so often overlooked and underrated and i'm PROUD to have him on this list and given the recognition and praise that he deserves.

Churchill has great potential...but his figures are just so plastic and stiff on a page. And he's still got this sticky Liefeld residue left on his art...though the more he loses that, the more and more i like him. See, i do like him...but no way does he beat out any of these ten, or an entire list of artists who didn't make it on to this list but deserve much honor all the same.

And, ugh, Brett Blevins again...i'm not even going to say his name anymore. BB. There, that makes me feel better...erases the Saturday morning cartoon renditions of the New Mutants out of my head. Awwwwwwwwww....

[Storm_1118]

Thanks for these wonderful articles. Unfortunately for us, it's so much easier to focus on the negative than the positive. I loved the list, even the parts I didn't agree with; it was fun to read. Never have cared for Bachalo or JRJR's second X-Men run, but I know many of you put your heads together to make this list, so it's a consensus. I would have liked to see Cockrum but I'm sure he'd be Top 20!

[Iceboy Ben]

Pretty good list, but leaving Dave Cockrum off is pretty inexcusable. The reason for Kirby being on there is more or less "without him there would be no X-Men"; without Dave Cockrum, there would be no "new" X-Men...or the series may have gotten cancelled again and there would have been no X-Men period.

I was never too blown away by Bachalo's contributions. Cockrum should have taken his spot, and frankly, he should have been in the top 3.

[David Santee]

Sorry, not liking this list at ALL. No Cockrum, Adams, Davis, or Smith? While I'm not a big fan, no Quitely? Andy Kurbert needs to be dropped. One run dosn't make ths list (and if it did, I'd put the stylings of Larry Stroman above him). Simonson deserves a mention, but I always associate him with Thor or Fantastic Four. I'm also not a big fan of Sienkiwicz, but he also deserves a mention.

Perhaps you should have gone with a top 20 or even a top 40 list.

[salvador]

Please, why do you always mistake his surname? It's LARROCA and not LAROCCA!

[RA Renteria]

No other artist in all comics has brought about such a radical change in style as Bill Sienkewicz. His innovative style and technique opened the door for other artists to be untraditional and daring.

It's a shame his influence was overlooked on this list for the like of MAD and Jim Lee, who although great artists in their own right didn't not make an impact on the art of the Mutant books like Bill S. did, and in the 80's to boot, when most art was as plain and bland from one title to the next. You could feel the energy in the art.

I remember when I first started collecting comics I couldn't stand the X-Men I always thought they were whiners and complainers. Then one day I saw an issue of the New Mutants with a Bill S. cover and from that day forward I was forever a mutant follower, i couldn't wait for each issue to come out and when Brett Blevins took over I was sad, but made it a point to follow BS throughout his long career. I still pick up those early issues every now and then, not to read, but to enjoy they dynamic pictures of
Bill Sienkewicz.

Also, I'm glad to see JRJR on the list, he is definitely deserving.

Richard Renteria

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

Thinking of the brilliance of Bill S. (christ, that name's as hard to spell as Nurse Annie's...lol), and it got me thinking...does anyone know if Mike Mignola ever did any X-Men artwork?

And if so, he's the only "Legend" artist who hasn't, i think.

[doctorx]

Originally posted by Jordan T. Maxwell


Ahem. Kirby didn't revolutionize the X-Men...he CREATED them. If that doesn't almost get you a buy into a top ten list (being their CREATOR) then i don't know what does. Now, if you had said he revolutionized comic books as a medium, then we could agree. Jack Kirby was one of the most dynamic and brilliant artists of his or any time. People become legends for a reason, folks. And you don't just randomly toss out titles like &... to any joe shmoe working in the industry.

Please, I think you know what I meant. Of course, I know he CREATED them. There's no need to get all worked up on semantics :mad:

And I disagree with you putting him on your list based only on him creating them. I'm hoping you also like his work, and that you're only putting him down just based on that.

I'm sorry, but OF COURSE I understand his signifigance, but like I said before, his artwork is not something I really enjoy.

I'm listing people whose work on X-Men I think are excellent in terms of quality. Cultural Impact would have to be a different story/list.

If Rob Liefeld had created the X-Men, would you put him on the list, even though you don't enjoy him?


How anyone could describe John Romita Jr. as horrid; is beyond me. I mean...i don't even know how to relate to that. The guy is consistently one of the hardest working and nicest professionals in the field. He gets the job done. He doesn't see himself as a great artist, and you gotta love modesty. :) Beyond just being an utter professional, his art is just so dynamic and dramatic and distinct (i feel like Neil Gaiman, coming up with all the D words, lol).

I'm sure he's a nice guy. I've seen some interviews and he comes across as hard working and nice also. But in the end, I'm sorry, but I'm still not a big fan of his artwork.

And, ugh, Brett Blevins again...i'm not even going to say his name anymore. BB. There, that makes me feel better...erases the Saturday morning cartoon renditions of the New Mutants out of my head. Awwwwwwwwww....

I've always thought they looked pretty cool. I was not a really big fan of Bill S. (before) and Rob Liefeld (after). The facial expressions were super exxagerated, but enjoyable imo.





------------------------------------



Best Artists by Book

Uncanny = MAD!
New Mutants = Bret Blevins
X-Factor = Jeff Matsuda
Excalibur = Alan Davis
Wolverine = Marc Silvesti
X-Men = Jim Lee
Cable = Ian Churchill
Generation X = Terry Dodson
X-Man = Steve Skorce
X-Force = Tony Daniel
Annuals = Art Adams
X-Statix = Mike Allred

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

If you'd bothered to read my ENTIRE post about Kirby, i feel i made it abundantly clear that i DO enjoy his artwork. But he also gets massive points for helping to create the concept and original team. I'm sorry, but that does count for something. This wasn't just a list of "best" artists, which is far more subjective, but TOP artists. That takes into account not only talent, but influence and impact as well (which, yes, makes it an absolute shame that at the very least Dave Cockrum didn't make this list...). Taking all of those elements into account, a lot of people spent a lot of time putting this list together. I'm sure all of us had our own slightly different individual criteria, so i can only speak for myself.

As for JRJR...well, i don't even know how to discuss art with somebody placing Blevins above Romita and Sienkiwicz (i gave it a shot). we apparently have vastly VASTLY different tastes. It's like an argument over what makes a good play between a Neil Simon and a Samuel Beckett fan...(for the record, i'm the Neil Simon fan. LOL!)

EDIT: Apparently, my entry for JRJR got edited, so just to clarify his first issue WAS the incredible landmark Phoenix, Uncanny X-Men #175, collaborating with Paul Smith. Just so we're all clear on that. ;)

[doctorx]

Originally posted by Jordan T. Maxwell
If you'd bothered to read my ENTIRE post about Kirby, i feel i made it abundantly clear that i DO enjoy his artwork.

Thank God, it's not just that :D Sorry, I missed that part about Kirby.. It's late here, and I'm extremely sleepy, yet at the same time, I can't sleep LOL

Originally posted by Jordan T. Maxwell
This wasn't just a list of "best" artists, which is far more subjective, but TOP artists.... I'm sure all of us had our own slightly different individual criteria

Yeah, I guess you can tell my criteria....I was thinking of the other criteria at first at well, but for my own criteria, I thought it would be best to just strip it down to the the most raw core, of whether we enjoy the art without considering impact or other factors.

Originally posted by Jordan T. Maxwell
As for JRJR...well, i don't even know how to discuss art with somebody placing Blevins above Romita and Sienkiwicz (i gave it a shot).

I think I kinda do enjoy some of their work, but it's kinda like an aquired taste for me. It's like I try to enjoy it, and see some stuff I like, but in the end, I really don't like it LOL

I really like the issues of X-Men (those two Dracula issues) where Bill S. does some penciling. His inking though ruins stuff for me LOL

[ultimateX]

joeMad, chris bachalo, adam and andy kubert and salva. my favorites. i got hooked with the x-men because of these people.

i missed those days when every xmen issue is worth collecting, not just because of the story, but most importantly, of the art.

kudos to these people.

i hope they bring back joeMAD to the fold.

another thing, i also love carlos pacheco. :)

[Martin Dudek]

I always liked Pecheco, but I agree witht the list for everything except Bachalo.

[bmack]

Great list! I don't really have any complaints here. The top six are dead on.

Jim Lee defined 90's art and is the reason many new readers jumped into comics at that time (plus maybe the best thing affiliated with Image at the start). His recent stuff on Batman was great. Bring him back to the X-Universe. This guy could make an 'Artee & Leech' series look good ;)

Marc Silvestri drew the first Uncanny book I ever read. For this he will always hold a special place with me. Can't wait for his upcoming run. Thank god, a good artist on X-Men!

John Byrne is just classic. You know you have had some great artists hen this guy ranks in at third!

I also loved the Kuberts and Madureira. The latter brought as new fresh look to the books that I thought was great at the time (much better than the anime style ::coughcrapcough:: that they are using in Uncanny now).

I would have switched Kirby and Larroca. Don't know why, but I have had a hard time getting into his art.

Neal Adams should be on the list, but I'll let it slide. However, I'm very thankful that Frank Quitely is not on the list. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. His style just does not fit the X-Men at all. I have never seen Cyclops drawn so goofy before in my life. And Wolverine looks to much like Grunge from Gen13... chubby and Asian. Not that there is anything wrong with being chubby and Asian... it just doesn't fit Logan :p

~ The Mack

Bad Dudes -> :venom: :ghost: :namor:

[Eric J. Moreels]

No Dave Cockrum?!? :eek:

That's it. Time to call a staff meeting. Heads are gonna roll...

;)

Just kidding. Good list, guys, though I definitely would have included Dave!

[Stormy]

I totally agree with this list ... a who's who of my fave X-artists, especially Sal, Mad, the Kuberts and of course Jim Lee. I've only seen JRJ's second run on Uncanny, and I didn't think his style was suited to the book at all (although perfect for Spidey). Very happy to see Sal included on the list, despite his relative newness ... I think his 24-issue run on X-treme is going to be remembered for a long time. For its quality and duration (no fill-ins!)

[Kahio]

the Kuberts should NOT be there, they are no way near as talented as the people below (or above) them or the people who didn't make that list. That isn't a subjective criticism, it's a factual one, especially with Adam, past the first few pages of an issue, when he starts, i dunno, losing interest or rushing, he is all over the place, an art teacher would grade some of his (their) work at F level, and these guys aren't even that rushed half of the time....

Salvador deserves WAY more credit, because he maintains such a high standard consistantly, never missing an issue of extreme, and doing side stories here and there and bi weekly issues, THAT is amazing.

Joe Mad, come on! This guy REDEFINED comic book art!!! And it all started (well, i mean ppl really started taking notice and things changin) with his uncanny work! His Space saga with Rogue and her team against the Phalax is one of the best drawn stories i have ever read, this guy deserves to be higher than the Kuberts! COME ON!

Argh, anyway, so I agree with the top three, maybe not so much Silverstri, and Jim Lee is hot right now, but a year ago he wouldn't have been first, but anyway, regardless they are worthy top three, i would push Joe and Sal and the others up 2 spaces since the Kuberts wouldn't factor in mine tbh, and add 2 other way more worthy artists at 9 and 10....

k.

[Wolfman]

This list was great, I was actuallly kinda surprised to see Bachalo on it, but the supporting argument was convincing.
Jim Lee as no.1... definitely. In fact this list was almost spot on.
Silvestri yup. both Kuberts yup. Byrne was iffy for me,
I know his art is great, but it never realy jumped out and grabbed me. Joe Mad... What's he doing these days anyway?

What I wouldn't give for one more Jim Lee/Claremont collaboration on the X-men.

Wolfman

[Tan K.]

Again, this is a list that had to be narrowed down. There were some staffers that voiced the same opinions as you all have. However, this is a compilation of staffers/fans who have come into the X-titles at different times, so there will be those who will lean more towards the newer artists (Bachalo).

IMO:
*Neal Adams should have been on the list (no doubt)
*Bachalo (or Andy Kubert) woulda been the best to eliminate (looking back in hindsight that is)
*Art Adams and Walt Simonson were also ones that shoulda been there (though not as strong as Neal Adams' case). However, to be devil's advocate, Adams didn't have the largest portfolio of x-work, and Walt's art though great was not as good as his Thor run.
*Dave Cockrum: ooh. tough one. I had no problem with his absence because I do not find his art attactive. The argument of him being integral is true, but sometimes being a founder is not always enough.
*Bill S. was revolutionary, but that is not the only criteria.
*Portacio? If he could make less awkward looking heads (maybe he should stop trying to draw the head separately and attaching it onto the body....history of weird head to body flow), and faces and that look like they have been in a boxing match.

[SuperGirl]

Go Larocca! he made Gambit YUMMIE! :D

[Tan K.]

Larocca....how did he slip in?!

[lavar78]

...also, anyone who would remove Jack Kirby, John Byrne and John Romita Jr. from ANY list of top ten artists in favor of Bret Blevins and Ian "the Liefeld genetic grafts are taking well, doctor" Churchill is sure to have a nice little room for them waiting in the wings of Arkham...Heh. We couldn't agree more. Blevins especially shouldn't be anywhere near this list. Ugh.

Besides being the most revolutionary X-artist, I think Bill S. was probably the most polarizing as well. Many people love his art, but many people hate it -- I doubt there are many who are indifferent.

Here's my list (15-11 being honorable mention). If I included Pacheco, he'd be at 12.

15. Walt Simonson
14. Chris Bachalo
13. Salvadore Larroca
12. Alan Davis
11. Jack Kirby - X-Men was probably his least-inspired work.
10. Neal Adams
9. Joe Madureira
8. Dave Cockrum
7. Paul Smith
6. Art Adams
5. John Romita Jr.
4. Marc Silvestri
3. Bill Sienkiewicz
2. Jim Lee
1. John Byrne

However, this is a compilation of staffers/fans who have come into the X-titles at different times, so there will be those who will lean more towards the newer artists

This can't be repeated enough. Generally, all of these lists should be skewed to the more recent books. Keeping that in perspective, nothing's all that shocking.

[Kevin Sutton]

I liked this list but Byrne probably should have been higher, and Larroca lower. Adam Kubert? I don't know about that... Also, I've never gotten what was so hot about Bachalo or Joe Mad.

[Papillon]

I, too, would've added Bill Sienkiewicz, Alan Davis, Art Adams, Walt Simonson, Paul Smith, and Dave Cockrum to the list. They're all great in their own ways and deserve recognition as well.

I'm also glad I'm not the only replying who thought Portacio drew funny looking heads. :p

[Mike Gonzalez]

Those who support Dave so far-

Bebi
Dan20
harlekein
theory
DragoonKain
phoenx
Zach Kinkead
lockheed
Joel Phillips
magiklover
Wolverine
Colossal Gambit
Iceboy Ben
SmashOgre
Eric J. Moreels
lavar78
Papillon

C'mon, at least put him on as #11 or as Fan's Choice.

[Roberto Polanco]

I think Mad's the best all time, but that's just me. andeven though he only did 9 issues, Neal Adams' the MAN

[S3V3N]

Byrne is 3 and Lee is #1?

I think that's poor judgement. Which artist consistently produced the longest run on the title? Which artist created imagery that was iconic?

Lee didn't produce any art/panels that are so memorable that they stick in my head to this day. Byrne produced numerous (Wolverine in the sewers beneath the hellfire club...Dark Phoenix committing suicide with that death ray...and many more).

And what about Cockrum? He is responsible for the character designs that to this day are fundamental to the characters. Jim Lee? All he did was put the team back in school/team uniforms which had already been done in New Mutants.

Lee is far from being a 'hack' but I suspect that this list fell victim to personal nostalgia instead of evaluating each candidate for professionalism, draftsmanship, technical expertise, and creativity.

So...that said...I respectfully disagree with the order of this list.

[Brett White]

I actually agree with Jim Lee being #1 on the list, mainly for all the reasons mentioned in his entry. I agree mainly because he produced images of the X-Men that are still used on coloring books and the like to this day. His art is just universal and his costume designs for the characters are probably the best that they have all ever had. He made the team look cool.

John Byrne should have definitely been #2. I never really understood what made Marc Silvestri so special, and I definitely don't see how he can beat out John Byrne.

And come on, Whilce Portacio is just a Jim Lee clone. Need I point out his run on X-Force which actually rivals Liefeld as the worst art ever to be seen in an X-Book? Gag...

[cookepuss]

The thing about New Mutants is that the original book had 4 distinct looks that defined them. That's what makes it so hard to choose. Your personal preference for best New Mutants artist really depends on what era really strikes a chord with you.

There's the Bob McLeod era. Though brief, his run really set the tone for this teen book. Classic, classic stuff. Examples... Their first Danger Room sessions or their first visit to Nova Roma.

There's the Bill Sienkewicz era. His art, along with the writing, elevated the teen angst into heavy drama usually reserved for the main X-books. Examples... The Demon Bear Saga & the odd journey into the mind of Legion.

There's the Bret Blevins era. His art was somewhat of a fusion of the first two tones. He could draw cutesy, goofy teens just blowing bubbles & hunting for burgers. He could also draw apocalyptic battle scenes with demons, as well as gun toting maniacs. Examples... Fall of the Mutants & Inferno

Finally, there's the Rob Liefeld era... God help me, the man helped to ruin that book. Gotta give the man credit. He breathed life into Cable. Many can say that they drew Cable, but only Liefeld can claim that the breathed life into him like Frankenstein's monster. Even so, the rest of his characters pretty much looked the same. With their long legs & overly developed musculatures, they looked more like rejects from the Terminator or Fame than actual teenagers. Sadly, his art was part of the 90's problem, imho. (Look at the 90's Avengers. Yeesh.) Examples... Xtinction Agenda & New Mutant's evolution into X-Force.
---
---
For the definitive New Mutants artist, I'd have to go with Blevins. Why? Well, McLeod's are was great, but his run didn't really last long enough. There's no telling how he could've handled the classic NM stories such as Inferno. Maybe he couldn't. Maybe he could. We'll never know. Liefeld... Well, I've already expressed my disgust over how he drew them. Great work on Cable. Bad on NM. That leaves two candidates. Bill Sienkewicz & Bret Blevins.

Bill Sienkewicz... There's a tough one. He got some of the meaty stories to draw. He got to define how some of the classic X-characters such as Legion & Warlock look. His handling of the dark, moody story of the Demon Bear Saga was awesome. I just don't think that his non-moody work on the kids was as evocative. Don't get me wrong. I liked the his art in Slumber Party, but his hard edged style really didn't mesh with the lighter moments of being a teen.

Bret Blevins... Say what you will. He's not the perfect comic artist, but he's the perfect New Mutants artist. Look at Fall of the Mutants. One issue, he's got the kids studying for exams & hunting for burgers. The next issue, he's got Cypher throwing himself in front of Rahne to take a bullet for her. He could draw glee as well as he could do grit. That's range if I ever saw it. Personally, I also feel that he had more of a hold on the angst element than any of the other NM artists. I don't think any other artist has ever drawn either Warlock or Magik as well. I'd just die of joy if they ever gave him a crack at even one issue of the new book. This man can draw teens.

[FreakyFlyBry]

I'm not at all surprised Jim Lee is #1. However, I'm surprised that Dave Cockrum was nowhere to be found.

[Brandon]

I agree with everyone who said Arthur Adams should have made it on the list. Bachalo could have been left off.

[Chris Claremont]

Dear Jim:

For the first time, I have to take issue with your selections, and do so quite seriously.

No Top Ten list of X-Men pencilers would or should -- be complete without Paul Smith. Or Dave Cockrum.

Why, you ask, especially compared to the luminaries listed?

Well, to coin a phrase oft-used by my boys, let me think: in the case of Dave Cockrum, for no other reason than without him there would be no New X-Men to celebrate. No Ororo, no Colossus, no Nightcrawler, no Phoenix. Dave came to Marvel in 1974 with a brace of sketches and a visual imagination and passion that was second-to-none and (as much as Jack Kirby) *created* the work we celebrate today.

As for Paul Smith -- he came aboard in #167 with two incredibly hard acts to follow: Dave, and John Byrne (#3 on the Top Ten, give me a break!), and Dave again. All he did, in less than a year, was define Rogue as an empathetic character, enabling her to become the Fan Fave she is today, revolutionize Ororo's appearance and -- oh, yes -- preside over a quantum increase in the book's sales that vaulted it to the top of the sales charts with so much room to spare that the book became the defining commercial success of its generation.

Sorry, but I think you guys dropped the ball on this one.

Cordially,

Chris Claremont

[SQUIRREL-GIRL]

where are dave cockrum[creator of storm,pheonix etc]
neal adams and paul smith[creator of punk storm]
[totaly argee wit u mr claremont]
are nowhere to be seen
lets put it to a polll vote!
or re do this
lol

[ManolisV]

nice list, but honestly. omitting dave cockrum (he is only responsible for launching the all-new all-different xmen team, why sdhould he be in tyhere, after all? ) and paul smith is a serious offense...

[number1958]

These are all great artists, but I'm not sure all of them were all that influential during their time on the X-Men. John Romita Jr's best work was/is mutant free. The same even goes for Jack "The King" Kirby. Put me down for a vote for Dave!

[Justclowes]

My top ten would have to be:
10: Tom Raney
9: Walt Simpson
8: Marc Silvesrti
7: Carlos Pachelo
6: Salvador laccora
5: Andy Kurbert
4: John Bryne
4. Joe Mad
2: Adam Kurbert
1: Jim Lee
If it was 11 i would have to add Liefield as i did really enjoy his run on New Mutants.

[Eric J. Moreels]

Okay, folks, one thing you haved to remember with these sorts of Top lists is that they're all subjective. By no means are we here at ComiX-Fan claiming this to be the definitive list. It's simply a lits generated from the opinions of various staff members. I'm sure if we did it over again with different staff, we'd come up with a completely different list! (I know I personally would have included Dave C on such a top list.)

So please, comment on it by all means, but just remember to take subjectivity into account. Thanks.

[bmack]

Originally posted by Eric J. Moreels
Okay, folks, one thing you haved to remember with these sorts of Top lists is that they're all subjective. By no means are we here at ComiX-Fan claiming this to be the definitive list. It's simply a lits generated from the opinions of various staff members. I'm sure if we did it over again with different staff, we'd come up with a completely different list! (I know I personally would have included Dave C on such a top list.)

So please, comment on it by all means, but just remember to take subjectivity into account. Thanks.

Maybe X-Fan should have gotten Professor X to read our minds and create a top ten list that way :p

~ The Mack

Bad Dudes -> :venom: :ghost: :namor:

[Dragon]

i totally agree with the list, i know theres lots of great artist that have done X-men and alot who didn't do great. So it's a hard decisson. I just like that fact that Jim the Man Lee is number 1

[Youri Zoutman]

It is a great list, but i agree that mr.Cockrum and mr.Smith belong in it...

[Mutant_Genesis]

Too bad this wasn't a Top 20 List! It would have been way easier to pick and include all the great artists who were left off the top 10.

I think Byrne deserves #1 with Jim Lee in a close second. I pretty much agree with most of the list except for the exclusion of Neal Adams and Carlos Pacheco. Salva, MAD!, Bachalo, and the Kuberts were great choices for this chart, but I think Silvestri was placed a bit high. I also think Cockrum deserves to be higher than both Romita Jr. and Kirby.

Overall, the lists are fun to read and are very well done! Keep it up, guys!

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

While a truly visionary artist at his best, i doubt i'd have Bachalo in my personal top ten. Maybe on just about any other Top Ten list, especially a top Vertigo list (hey...there's an idea. :) ). and Joe Mad i can take or leave. Beyond that, it'd be hard for me to legitimately say any of the rest of the artists on this list should be bumped in favor of anyone else. Likewise, if Cockrum, Smith, either of the Adams, Quitely or Bill S. had made the list, i'd feel the same about bumping them in favor of the artists listed here. After forty years, there have been some phenomenal and iconic artists laced through every book in this rich and deep mythology. So any list that only allows ten slots is going to leave someone short changed.

There's also the fact that Jim and Eric have us all tied up in the staff room now, beating us with bamboo chutes...Joel's crying like a little girl. It'd be humorous if i hadn't gone into septic shock five hours ago...ah well.

I also love the fact that after three weeks of anointing praise on Claremont's stories in the Top Forty Stories thread...his first mentioning during all of this hoopla is to rip us a new one. ;) I'm actually serious though. It shows a guy of real character and modesty to hold his tongue when others praise him, but to stand up and be heard when he feels his friends and colleagues have been looked over.

All right, i've got to go chain myself back up...Jim's thinking about trying his backhanded technique this afternoon and i don't want to miss it. Take care. :D

[ronaldmcdonald]

i knew it that jim lee would be no. 1.
nice list.

[Omar A. Safi]

I'd have liked for Quitely and Bill S. to be on there.

[ReaperFett]

I agree with the list totally, barring the people I haven't experienced.

[doctorx]

Hmm..I kinda like Dave Cockrum's stuff...Maybe if this was a top 15 or 20, I would include him....

[NicholasRogue]

Great list! I love the work of Joe Mauderia, Salvador Larocca, Adam and Andy Kubert, Neal Adams, John Bryne, Marc Silversti, and Jim Lee freakin' rock!

[Papillon]

Originally posted by lonewolf21
Blevins over Bill Sienkewicz or even Sal Buscema as definitive New Mutants (well volume one anyway) artist? WOw...I'm surprised.

Actually, I'm mildly nauseated. Blevins' twisty scribble people just didn't appeal to me. (Neither did Liefield, for that matter.) After Bill S. and some sharp fill-ins, Blevins just didn't... I don't know... He just didn't seem very good or right to me. (And let's not forget those costumes! Magik's was the only one with any style, and the guys just had anonymous ones.)

[Eric J. Moreels]

Originally posted by bmack
Maybe X-Fan should have gotten Professor X to read our minds and create a top ten list that way :p

Well we're not X-Fan anymore. We're ComiX-Fan, and have been for a while now. I'd appreciate it if people wouldn't refer to us by our old moniker anymore, thanks.

[Gat0r-ManX]

I LOVE THE LIST!!!


I'm quite happy that you guys mentioned Bachalo. I love his art.

[Mike Gonzalez]

Originally posted by Eric J. Moreels


Well we're not X-Fan anymore. We're ComiX-Fan, and have been for a while now. I'd appreciate it if people wouldn't refer to us by our old moniker anymore, thanks.

I'm going to spin this site off into seX-Fan... or heX-Fan starring Wanda.


...yes, it's all so clear now.

[doctorx]

I'm surprised and slightly dissapointed that no one's mentioned the overlooked Werner Roth. :( It's always YADA YADA KIRBY YADA YADA NEAL ADAMS. :mad:

He greatly improved on Kirby's grotesque drawings (especially on the Beast, Zelda, Jean Grey, Vera, and Iceman) Suddenly, they looked like real people, not monsters anymore. He might have even set standards for what Adams was to take upon.

While, I'll concede that Adams had more dynamic shots, I think Roth kept things simple, yet looking good.

[Anthony Lucynski]

I dont even think Kirby should be on there, to be blunt. When I think "top ten" artists, Kirby doesnt come to mind. Even remotley close. I dont care if he invented the X-Men, that shouldnt give him anything more than an honorary mention (like when performers get up on stage and thank god as part of their acceptence speaches for awards).

Liefeld created much loved characters as well. Had a book launched JUST for him. But he's not on the list. And i'm sorry if you laugh at the comparison of Liefeld and Kirby..you really shouldnt, Kirby (yes, the King) LOVED Rob Liefeld's art. He was a big fan and had nothing but great things to say about it (often comparing it to his own, saying that people didnt understand his (jacks) at first either).

So i'll stop the haters before they begin.

At any rate, the fact remains: Kirby could of been replaced with, I dunno, pick a silver age artist, and would of landed on this list using the logic that was presented as a choice.

I also wouldnt of put Bachalo or Larroca on the list. Love their art, dont get me wrong, but Dave Cockrum deserves a spot on that list before even thinking of either of them.

But hey, that's cool. This is just a few staff members picking their favorites, not a definitive list by any means.

Anthony L

[crawler_17]

Hell yes! Great list. All my faves made it!!! This is a first when it comes to the popularity of my faves.

[BJR]

I totally agree with all of these.

[Big Jigga Dudley]

I can't believe Bachalo made this list. I think he is by far one of the worst artists out there. i skipped the entire Weapons Plus arc just because he was the artist.

[Mike Gonzalez]

Originally posted by Anthony Lucynski
I dont even think Kirby should be on there, to be blunt. When I think &quot;top ten&quot; artists, Kirby doesnt come to mind. Even remotley close. I dont care if he invented the X-Men, that shouldnt give him anything more than an honorary mention (like when performers get up on stage and thank god as part of their acceptence speaches for awards).


Yeah, and we should all remember that for a lot of the issues he's credited for art in, he just did the layouts. It was Jay Gavin and Werner Roth that did 90% of the art in the 60's.

[doctorx]

Originally posted by Anthony Lucynski
I dont even think Kirby should be on there, to be blunt. When I think &quot;top ten&quot; artists, Kirby doesnt come to mind. Even remotley close. I dont care if he invented the X-Men, that shouldnt give him anything more than an honorary mention (like when performers get up on stage and thank god as part of their acceptence speaches for awards).

Liefeld created much loved characters as well. Had a book launched JUST for him. But he's not on the list. And i'm sorry if you laugh at the comparison of Liefeld and Kirby..you really shouldnt, Kirby (yes, the King) LOVED Rob Liefeld's art. He was a big fan and had nothing but great things to say about it (often comparing it to his own, saying that people didnt understand his (jacks) at first either).
Anthony L

Are you being sarcastic? Sorry I can't tell.... :p

[Wolfman]

What you need to ask is, is this list based on artistic skill alone? Or is it based on what was accomplished with that skill?

I was under the impression that it was a mixture of both, thus Kirby would make the list on the basis of both his ability and what he did with it. So even though he might not have made the list on artistic skill alone, the fact that he was an X-men pioneer pushes him over the top.

Wolfman

[Joel Phillips]

Originally posted by Anthony Lucynski
I dont even think Kirby should be on there, to be blunt. When I think &quot;top ten&quot; artists, Kirby doesnt come to mind. Even remotley close. I dont care if he invented the X-Men, that shouldnt give him anything more than an honorary mention (like when performers get up on stage and thank god as part of their acceptence speaches for awards).

My focus on his influence in the entry seems to have given people the impression that he got on the list for influence alone. It's not: I genuinely love his art. That, COMBINED WITH his influence, gets him ahead of the likes of Neal Adams, who is just as good and also did only a little X-work, but doesn't have the added bonus of being first.

Liefeld created much loved characters as well. Had a book launched JUST for him. But he's not on the list. And i'm sorry if you laugh at the comparison of Liefeld and Kirby..you really shouldnt, Kirby (yes, the King) LOVED Rob Liefeld's art. He was a big fan and had nothing but great things to say about it (often comparing it to his own, saying that people didnt understand his (jacks) at first either).

So i'll stop the haters before they begin.

This is a ludicrous comparison, Anthony, and not because of whether or not you like Liefeld's art (I'm not going to get into that with you). But Liefeld didn't have a title created just for him, he took over and revamped an existing one. Kirby created something from scratch. And even if you ignore the connection between New Mutants and X-Force, Liefeld still had the benefit of starting his title within the umbrella of a hugely successful franchise. X-Men #1 started with nothing.

At any rate, the fact remains: Kirby could of been replaced with, I dunno, pick a silver age artist, and would of landed on this list using the logic that was presented as a choice.

No, because they didn't START THE FRANCHISE. Kirby did only a little X-work, but it was great, and it was first. That's something nobody else gets to say.

I also wouldnt of put Bachalo or Larroca on the list. Love their art, dont get me wrong, but Dave Cockrum deserves a spot on that list before even thinking of either of them.

I agree with you on that anyway.

And for the record, before I am tarred and feathered, my personal top ten (not addressing the issue of rank) replaced Bachalo and the Kuberts with Cockrum, Neal Adams and Frank Quitely. Just to have that on public record.

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

I'd have Kirby on my list for talent as well as influence...for my personal top ten, i'd lose Bachalo, Madureira and Larocca and replace them with Paul Smith, Dave Cockum and Art Adams (my selection of Art over Neal is just my personal taste). But i'd probably leave the rest as is, maybe alter the ranking somewhat.

And if i were feeling especially naughty, i might replace Silvestri or Smith with Frank Quitely, who i adore. :D

[Derrick Ferguson]

No Neal Adams, Dave Cockrum or Paul Smith on the list?...sheesh..and Rodney Dangerfield claims HE don't get no respect...

[Anthony Lucynski]

Are you being sarcastic? Sorry I can't tell....

No Sarcasm. Kirby was a big Rob Liefeld fan (a lot of Kirby fans cant take that, because they hate Liefeld, but it's the truth) and the parrellels between Rob and Jack are (pun intended) Uncanny.

I was under the impression that it was a mixture of both, thus Kirby would make the list on the basis of both his ability and what he did with it. So even though he might not have made the list on artistic skill alone, the fact that he was an X-men pioneer pushes him over the top.

What influence?? On X-Men? Beg to differ. A couple short years later, the title was in reprints and about to be cancelled! When people think of Kirby, trust me, they dont think of X-Men. Or at least, not many of the people i've ran into have. Kirby has a wealth of experience and artistic product outside of X-Men. Even the creators of this list acknowledge his short tenure on the title. Jack is the King for other reasons, none of them involve X-Men.

And if pioneers AND artistic ability are the criteria, why oh why did Cockrum not make the list? Or Art Adams? Or any number of artists that had more artistic ability, influence, and pioneering history than Jack did ON THE X-MEN (I'm not saying as a whole, i'm specifically talking about just this franchise)

My focus on his influence in the entry seems to have given people the impression that he got on the list for influence alone. It's not: I genuinely love his art. That, COMBINED WITH his influence, gets him ahead of the likes of Neal Adams, who is just as good and also did only a little X-work, but doesn't have the added bonus of being first.


It doesnt matter if you loved his art or if he was first. Fact remains he's getting a nod just becaus he was the first and because of his overall legacy in comics. And I think it's an insult to other artists who contributed a lot more to the X-Men franchise that he they were left out because of an imagined greatness on the title.

This is a ludicrous comparison, Anthony, and not because of whether or not you like Liefeld's art (I'm not going to get into that with you). But Liefeld didn't have a title created just for him, he took over and revamped an existing one. Kirby created something from scratch. And even if you ignore the connection between New Mutants and X-Force, Liefeld still had the benefit of starting his title within the umbrella of a hugely successful franchise. X-Men #1 started with nothing.

First off, this has nothing to do with my love for Liefeld. I used him as a comparison because he has all the attributes you guys supposedly used for Kirby.

Let's recap:

Kirby: Pioneer, Influence, drew a handful of X-issues.
Liefeld: Pioneer, Influence, drew a handful of X-issues.

And like it or not, the X-office DID create X-Force for Rob. Ask Bob Harras. Or Fabian, if you're so inclined, history speaks for itself, i'm sorry if you're confused about the genesis of that title. I'm also sorry if you're so blinded from your love of one artist and your hatred of another that you cant look at this from an objective viewpoint.

Anthony L

[Anthony Lucynski]

BTW, sorry for the double post, but just to clear the air, Rob Liefeld would NOT make my personal top ten list either.

I'm not even entirely sure i'd place him in the top 20. And i'm a huge Rob fan (if you havent caught on yet).

Anthony L

[Papillon]

Originally posted by Anthony Lucynski
I dont even think Kirby should be on there, to be blunt. When I think &quot;top ten&quot; artists, Kirby doesnt come to mind. Even remotley close. I dont care if he invented the X-Men, that shouldnt give him anything more than an honorary mention (like when performers get up on stage and thank god as part of their acceptence speaches for awards).

Liefeld created much loved characters as well. Had a book launched JUST for him. But he's not on the list. And i'm sorry if you laugh at the comparison of Liefeld and Kirby..you really shouldnt, Kirby (yes, the King) LOVED Rob Liefeld's art. He was a big fan and had nothing but great things to say about it (often comparing it to his own, saying that people didnt understand his (jacks) at first either).

Y'know, if we could harness the energy made from the spinning motion this statement has caused in Kirby's grave, we could power an entire city.

[Anthony Lucynski]

You can attack my post all you want, do you deny that Kirby loved Liefeld's stuff?

YOu cant.

Anthony L

[DaveCummings]

I think that Dave Cockrum may have been overlooked when comprising the list. Yes, he created the looks of alot of popular X-Men, but I think his work may have been overshadowed by John Byrne , who took over after Cockrum.

That said, I do think that Larrocca and Bachalo should be taken off the list. I love thier work, but they are what I'd call the "top 10 X artists". They have not influenced others after them.

I don't think SIlvestri should have that high of a position though.

As for the Kuberts........I love thier work, but I don't know really if they should be on the list.

Joe Mad deserves to stay on the list. I know people give him crap for his lateness or may not prefer his style. But, you do have to recognize the influence that he had.

Jim Lee, yeah he belongs on the top of the list. He influenced comics and expecially the X-Men for the past decade.

My idea of the top 10 list is (based on popularity and influence artist had on other artists and creators)

1.Jim Lee
2.John Byrne
3.Joe Mad
4.Neal Adams
5.Paul Smith
6.John Romita Jr (though I consider him a DD artist)
7.Dave Cockrum
8.Mark Silvestri
9.Art Adams
10.Adam Kubert (I associate him with X-books alot more than Andy)

~Dave

[Anthony Lucynski]

I love that list!

Anthony L

[DaveCummings]

Or better yet, the top artist of different eras for the X-Books

60's Jack Kirby has it here , granted the house artists were instructed to emulate his stylizations as well.

late 60's/early 70's Neal Adams

late 70's Dave Cockrum

early 80's John Byrne

late 80's Mark Silvestri

early 90's Jim Lee (hey he did sell 8 million copies of the X-Men, that is nothing to sneeze at)

late 90's Joe Mad

2000's........I don't know yet. There are great artists like Frank Quitely, Larrocca, and others. But no one at the moment really stands out at the definitive X artist at the time. And I mean really stand out. I mean, Joe Mad does stand out during his tenure on the Xbooks as does Jim Lee. But, I don't think that Larrocca or anyone else really totally stands out. I like Quitely, but I associate him as a vertigo artist more than anything else.

~Dave

[Anthony Lucynski]

Yeah, but if you divide it into eras, that might defeate the purpose of an overall list.

When I think "greatest" lists, I think of ten people who immediatley spring to mind, no matter how long ago their runs were, or how long they were on the title.

All the ones on your list spring to mind immediatley. Jack Kirby, Chris Bachalo, Salvador Larroca..great artists, but they dont make me think: X-Men.

When I think of Jack, I think Captain America, the Golden Age Sandman. I think Fantastic Four (inhumans!) I think Thor, and the Avengers! Silver Surfer! Kamandi! The New Gods! How about Omac or Mr. Miracle or the Demon?

And the list goes on and on of creations that automatically make me think "Kirby"

X-men just isnt one of them. I realize he was co-creator, I realize that he was the first to do them, but he's not a definitive creator in my mind when it comes to that franchise. Paul Smith, John Byrne, Dave Cockrum, and later Marc Silvestri and Jim Lee.

Those guys, not Kirby are what I think of. And I refuse to grudingly accept that I need to put him on the list simply because of the historical signifigance of him helping launch the title, and the misconceived notion that it should be a universal acceptence of greatness.

Anthony L

[Cabbit]

um... when did Larroca work on Excalibur?

[Brandon]

When you look at the cover of X-Men # 1......it's Jack Kirby's artwork there. He, in most respects, defined who they were atristically. Liefeld's re-vamp of an existing title, with added characters, was only expanding upon that which was already well established. McFarlane drew an X-Force issue, and since Liefeld has far more of an "uncanny" resemblance to his artwork, should McFarlane be considered by proxy? Where can we find Jack Kirby's profound appreciation of Liefeld's artwork mentioned? I'd love to read this for myself.

[Anthony Lucynski]

Oh dear god, I dont have a link, so it must not be true.

:rolleyes:

Ask anybody that was in Extreme Studios at the time when Jack Kirby invited them over to hang out with him and his wife, for one instance. Not to mention several interviews. I'm not going to sit here and defend a commonly known thing: Him and Jack were friends, they got along, they liked each others work, and you can verify this through Eric Stephenson and Matt Hawkins (of Image and Top Cow, respectivly), Dan Fraga (who was there), and any other number of creators and editors in this industry. Just because you never read it, or never heard of it, doesnt mean it's not true.

I know, I know. It hurts to think that someone you hold in high regard was associated with someone you dont. Kinda makes you wonder eh: What did Kirby see that you didnt?

Hmmmmmmm..

When you look at the cover of X-Men # 1......it's Jack Kirby's artwork there. He, in most respects, defined who they were atristically.

For a handful of issues, yes. That was later redefined, over and over.

Again: First one to do it doesnt make it the best.

I can be the first one fart in the wind, doesnt make me the best at it.

To continue with the Liefeld comparison, and your own twisted logic: Look at the cover of X-Force #1. It has Liefeld's art on it.

Doesnt mean he was the best X-Force artist. Just because he was the first......

Anthony L

[Tan K.]

People forget that Liefeld was a HUGE name. Then it became en vogue to bash him (deservedly so on some occassion if you include his attitude). I still think he has some good entertainment value. He also has some glaring holes in his art. However, he is still talented, would bump up sales on Marvel title (if there was a decent writer, which means he would have nothing to do with the plot or script). I don't know if I would put him in top 20, but he was a big influence on the x for the early 90's.

[ChristopherL]

Originally posted by Anthony Lucynski
Oh dear god, I dont have a link, so it must not be true.

:rolleyes:

Ask anybody that was in Extreme Studios at the time when Jack Kirby invited them over to hang out with him and his wife, for one instance. Not to mention several interviews. I'm not going to sit here and defend a commonly known thing: Him and Jack were friends, they got along, they liked each others work, and you can verify this through Eric Stephenson and Matt Hawkins (of Image and Top Cow, respectivly), Dan Fraga (who was there), and any other number of creators and editors in this industry. Just because you never read it, or never heard of it, doesnt mean it's not true.

I know, I know. It hurts to think that someone you hold in high regard was associated with someone you dont. Kinda makes you wonder eh: What did Kirby see that you didnt?

Hmmmmmmm..



For a handful of issues, yes. That was later redefined, over and over.

Again: First one to do it doesnt make it the best.

I can be the first one fart in the wind, doesnt make me the best at it.

To continue with the Liefeld comparison, and your own twisted logic: Look at the cover of X-Force #1. It has Liefeld's art on it.

Doesnt mean he was the best X-Force artist. Just because he was the first......

Anthony L

I think he was the best X-Force artist myself. Greg Capullo a close second. Didn't care for Tony Daniel or Adam Pollina.

Dave Cockrum & Paul Smith are top class artists and contributed more to the X-Men canon than more than a few artists on that list.

but it's just like Rolling Stone doing a "100 greatest guitarist" list or The Source doing a top 100 "greatest emcess" list. Subjective as hell.

peace.

[Jim Lemoine]

Hey hey hey... ENOUGH, people.

This is a discussion of the greatest X-artists of all time... NOT some Kirby vs. Liefeld thread.

Both artists did a lot for the X-franchise. Some like the one better, some like the other better. Deal with it. You have to admit that both artists made huge contributions to the X-canon, and both were loved by a lot of fans.

(but for the record, what Anth says about the King liking Liefeld's art is true. I wouldn't have thought it, but it is true)

So anyway, let's not get this thread derailed any more than it has been, huh?

[Mike Gonzalez]

I checked and Kirby only drew 11 issues. The rest had him listed with "layout" credit, which is very suspect. He was most likely busy with Avengers and FF at the time.

[doctorx]

Originally posted by Anthony Lucynski


No Sarcasm. Kirby was a big Rob Liefeld fan (a lot of Kirby fans cant take that, because they hate Liefeld, but it's the truth) and the parrellels between Rob and Jack are (pun intended) Uncanny.
Anthony L


OMG!!!!! Thank You, Anthony!! You are my GOD now :D :D :D As you can see from my posts, I have the same views as you. I thought the sarcasm was being directed at me :p I thought I was all alone here on my views of not wanting Kirby on the list... :yes:


Originally posted by Anthony Lucynski


No Sarcasm. Kirby was a big Rob Liefeld fan (a lot of Kirby fans cant take that, because they hate Liefeld, but it's the truth) and the parrellels between Rob and Jack are (pun intended) Uncanny.



What influence?? On X-Men? Beg to differ. A couple short years later, the title was in reprints and about to be cancelled! When people think of Kirby, trust me, they dont think of X-Men. Or at least, not many of the people i've ran into have. Kirby has a wealth of experience and artistic product outside of X-Men. Even the creators of this list acknowledge his short tenure on the title. Jack is the King for other reasons, none of them involve X-Men.

And if pioneers AND artistic ability are the criteria, why oh why did Cockrum not make the list? Or Art Adams? Or any number of artists that had more artistic ability, influence, and pioneering history than Jack did ON THE X-MEN (I'm not saying as a whole, i'm specifically talking about just this franchise)



It doesnt matter if you loved his art or if he was first. Fact remains he's getting a nod just becaus he was the first and because of his overall legacy in comics. And I think it's an insult to other artists who contributed a lot more to the X-Men franchise that he they were left out because of an imagined greatness on the title.



First off, this has nothing to do with my love for Liefeld. I used him as a comparison because he has all the attributes you guys supposedly used for Kirby.

Let's recap:

Kirby: Pioneer, Influence, drew a handful of X-issues.
Liefeld: Pioneer, Influence, drew a handful of X-issues.

And like it or not, the X-office DID create X-Force for Rob. Ask Bob Harras. Or Fabian, if you're so inclined, history speaks for itself, i'm sorry if you're confused about the genesis of that title. I'm also sorry if you're so blinded from your love of one artist and your hatred of another that you cant look at this from an objective viewpoint.

Anthony L

Completely agree..... :D

[Youri Zoutman]

I'm kinda in the middle, Kirby is truly the king, but shouldn't be on the list, becuase he didn't define the X-Men from a comics perspective.

He did create many of them, but did only 11 issues, which is not enough to be on this list!

Now, if there's an FF list, Kirby must be #1!!

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

throwing yet another of my hats into the ring here, but of course Kirby belongs on this list. For one thing, being the creator and first to design several of the most iconic and enduring characters in the franchise has to count for something. Anthony might not think of the X-Men when he thinks of Kirby, but i know that i for one do...yes, along with the Avengers, the Fantastic Four, the Hulk, the New Gods and Fourth World stuff. and he's a master of his craft with each. Sure, his runs on other titles may have lasted longer...but this was kind of the bastard child of the Marvel Universe at first (and if we're going off of the length of runs, then i don't want to hear anyone else say Paul Smith belongs on here...he may very well, and would probably make my top ten, but his run was really only about 10 issues...one of which he did with his successor, JRJR). It doesn't mean they're not still his creations.

And the more objective reasons he belongs on this list...he got picked. He was nominated and voted for by the people who put this list together. Whatever our individual reasons might be, enough of us felt him worthy of inclusion to get him on here. and i'm not really sure there's an impeachment process for top ten lists. :D

[Youri Zoutman]

Well, if Paul Smith lasted even shorter than Kirby than hell yeah he belongs here!

Thank you for showing me the light!!

(i meant of course than Kirby belonged here)

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

Raven, i'm saying that people have been calling for Paul Smith's inclusion on this list because he was a great artist with a PRETTY substantial influence on the book...and i agree, i'd put him on my personal list. But it goes to show you that time spent on the book does not equate impact on the book. Your earlier comment that Kirby didn't define the X-Men...well, by definition of define, he was the one to define the original characters and concept. anyone else who came along would be a RE-definition.

To put it simply...as you declare yourself an acolyte of Magneto (ugh), you ever notice how every costume Magneto gets winds up reverting to his original look? You know who did that look first? Yeah, it was Kirby. Tell me about defiing characters again...;)

[Youri Zoutman]

:sigh:
Can't we just say that every artist on the books were great?:(

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

not really, cuz lord knows that'd be a lie. lol

The problem with the list is that there ARE so many great artists, but not enough slots to fill.

[Roberto Polanco]

Apart from Mad, I think it's it's a travestry that Paul Smith isn't there, his art is just so simple anf fluid, I like it a lot:D

[Iceboy Ben]

My list (trying to combine most important to the franchise with my opinion of "best"):

1. Jim Lee
2. John Byrne
3. Dave Cockrum
4. Marc Silvestri
5. Joe Madureira
6. Paul Smith
7. Jack Kirby
8. Adam Kubert
9. John Romita Jr.
10. Salvador Larocca

[GuyX]

Wow what craziness over one of the lists.

For the record (and I know somewhere right now theres a monkey carefully monitering and noting our every stance on this site) I like the list. And there.

[Jennifer de Vries]

No Dave Cockrum. Ooh, bad staff members, bad! No bisquits for you! And no, I didn't participate myself (where WAS this one anyway?), otherwise I wouldn't complain.;)

...and am I the only one who can't honestly remember Paul Smith even though having read pretty much all issues of Uncanny since #94?

[DragoonKain]

I started reading New Mutants when Blevins was doing the art. I have to admit that I loved his style. I fell in love with Magik, she was adorable (I was 10 back then so it was okay). So I guess I would have to put him as the definitive artist of that run. When I first saw a Bill S. book, I hated his art. But the more issues I read, the more it grew it on me. Now he's one of my favorite artists. I have a feeling that's how it was for a lot of new mutants readers. I guess it's best to rate the definitive artist for each book.

Uncanny X-Men - Dave Cockrum/John Byrne/Paul Smith (can't decide which one)
New X-Men - Jim Lee
New Mutants - Brett Blevins/Bill S.
X-Factor - Walt Simonson
X-Force - Rob Leifield
X-Treme - S. Larocca
X-Statix - obviously Allred, a favorite of mine

[Brett White]

Originally posted by DragoonKain

X-Force - Rob Leifield


As an X-Force fan, that hurts me to my soul. I really think that Adam Pollina became the definitive X-Force artist. His style just conveys X-Force's attitude. I would say that Rob is X-Force's Jack Kirby, but Pollina is their Cockrum/Byrne. I also can't forget the great work that Tony Daniels and Greg Capullo did. I also loathe Rob Liefeld's art...

[crozack]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.

John Byrne, the man who defined the X-Men and more Marvel characters than any other artist, gets rocked to number three? Chris Bachalo is only number ten? The man who defined comic book art is only number eight? Sal Larroca is deep in the thicket of legends like Byrne, Romita Jr, and Kirby...oh, beating Jack Kirby?

Whew...where the hell am I? I've held my tongue on the other lists for good reason (Colossus not in the top ten, Sentinels beating out Archangel, Colossus's death ranked so high) but this has got to be a joke.

[Zach Kinkead]

I don't really get why JR Jr. is even on this list. When I think about him I think about Daredevil and Spider-Man before I think about the X-Men. Hell, I think about his work on Hulk and Thor before I think about his X-work

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

Originally posted by crozack
Whoa, whoa, whoa.

John Byrne, the man who defined the X-Men and more Marvel characters than any other artist, gets rocked to number three? Chris Bachalo is only number ten? The man who defined comic book art is only number eight? Sal Larroca is deep in the thicket of legends like Byrne, Romita Jr, and Kirby...oh, beating Jack Kirby?

Whew...where the hell am I? I've held my tongue on the other lists for good reason (Colossus not in the top ten, Sentinels beating out Archangel, Colossus's death ranked so high) but this has got to be a joke.

Nope, no joke. Our list, and welcome to it. Kick off your shoes, have a fruit roll up and stay a while.

And that's funny, you saying you've held your tongue on the other lists, when i seem to recall you complaining incessantly on just about every one of them when they first popped up. lol

[wyzeguy]

Dave Cockrum and Neal Adams should definitely have been on the list. Other than that, I pretty much agree with it.

[Brett White]

I actually would like to take this opportunity to say that while I have made more than one comment about this list, I really appreciate all the work that has gone into this list and the others. I check this site constantly to see if any more lists have been put up because I find them very entertaining. I mean, comic book lists are few and far between and I'm very glad that this anniversary has brought about so many. Whether or not I agree with them, they are thought-provoking and fun to read. Good work. Cheers all around!

[PinkShiro]

mmmmmmmmm Marc Silvestri :D! my fave hands down

[Nick Costanzo]

You know, Salvador Larrocca has also done X-Men. He pencilled at least the last chapter of OZT, though i dont know what else he did.

[angel1]

both paul smith and dave cockrum were worthy of being in that list IMO. they created some classic x-men stories after all.........
and hell yeah! adam pollina IS the definitive x-force artist as far as I'm concerned

[Tan K.]

Originally posted by crozack
Whoa, whoa, whoa.

John Byrne, the man who defined the X-Men and more Marvel characters than any other artist, gets rocked to number three? Chris Bachalo is only number ten? The man who defined comic book art is only number eight? Sal Larroca is deep in the thicket of legends like Byrne, Romita Jr, and Kirby...oh, beating Jack Kirby?

Whew...where the hell am I? I've held my tongue on the other lists for good reason (Colossus not in the top ten, Sentinels beating out Archangel, Colossus's death ranked so high) but this has got to be a joke.
You were the 1st person I thought of when Byrne came in at #3.


Originally posted by Zach Kinkead
I don't really get why JR Jr. is even on this list. When I think about him I think about Daredevil and Spider-Man before I think about the X-Men. Hell, I think about his work on Hulk and Thor before I think about his X-work
I think its cool that everyone has been very passionate about their opinions (constructively).

Again, we have voters who have started reading for a looooooong time, mid-range, or short time. That is representative of the x-readership. In that respect, our list is pretty fair. However, in a perfect world everyone would have been fully informed, which may have lead to JB being higher and Cockrum and Adams being included on the list.

JRJR: We all have our preferences.

I understand Cockrum's importance, but this is not just about importance or impact. It's about personal tastes as well, which is the wildcard. I for one am not a huge fan of Cockrum's art, so I didn't rate him highly. If this were a list of influence, then this list would be entirely different. JB, Kirby, and Cockrum would be the top 3 hands down with maybe N Adams competing. ComiX-Fan staff made a conscious effort to not just measure influence because that would create more variability.

Even though I would have preferred some others being included, I am very happy that we have created this amount of discussion. I only hope next week's does the same.

[Nessie]

Gotta admit that Jim Lee is my number one too. As for second best, i'd bet on Salvador Larroca, i simply love his art, and what he has been doing with X-Treme X-Men.
Third Joe Madureira and fourth Adam Kubert...

As for the rest... they can pretty much follow in the same order, leaving Chris Bachalo out of my list to start off... coz i never did enjoy his art.

[DragoonKain]

Originally posted by DigsyMadrox


As an X-Force fan, that hurts me to my soul. I really think that Adam Pollina became the definitive X-Force artist. His style just conveys X-Force's attitude. I would say that Rob is X-Force's Jack Kirby, but Pollina is their Cockrum/Byrne. I also can't forget the great work that Tony Daniels and Greg Capullo did. I also loathe Rob Liefeld's art...

I'm going to have to plead ignorance on that one, as I never really read much of the stuff after Leifield left. It wasn't really out of loss of interest, but I kind of fell out of comics altogether around then, due to financial difficulties and a busy schedule. I did revisit X-Force every once in awhile through the years, but never really started reading comics regularly until recently.

[lavar78]

I vote for Greg Capullo as the definite X-Force artist, followed closely by Pollina, Daniels, and Cheung. Liefeld? Dead last.

[x-cess]

nice list, though i dont like larroca that much. and wheres dave cockrum, and frank quitely?

[lavar78]

Originally posted by Zach Kinkead
I don't really get why JR Jr. is even on this list. When I think about him I think about Daredevil and Spider-Man before I think about the X-Men. Hell, I think about his work on Hulk and Thor before I think about his X-work

What does that have to do with anything? IIRC, JRjr has drawn more issues of this book than anyone outside of Byrne. I'm not a big fan of his second run, but his first was consistently great. It's a credit to his talent that he's been simultaneously prolific and good. I wish he'd share his secret with Chuck Austen.

[PsiWar]

i still think that the Kuberts, although very talented, shouldn't be on that list.

andy's first works were obviously carbon copie's of lee's...

adam on the other hand lacks consistency...


:)

[Anthony Lucynski]

I vote for Greg Capullo as the definite X-Force artist, followed closely by Pollina, Daniels, and Cheung. Liefeld? Dead last.

See, that is something I dont understand. Wheras Stan Lee could of found any artist he wanted to and X-Men would of still been launched, Liefeld had the book X-Force made JUST FOR HIM. (which is Ironic when you think of how he and the others left, but still)

It was his character designs that stayed in place for X-force (and deadpool) for years to come (whearas Kirby's influence isnt even fealt on the X-books anymore. Cyclops, Beast, Angel, Iceman, Professor X, and Marvel Girl look MUCH different than they did when Kirby was on the book/launched the book)

Sure, the same could be said about the characters Liefeld created (re: they dont look the same anymore), but still.

I