AND NOW FOR SOMETHING COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PART 2: ROASTING THE X-MEN!

[Jim Lemoine]

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/4images/data/media/188/uxmen244.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/4images/data/thumbnails/188/uxmen244.jpg" border=0 align=left alt="Uncanny X-Men #244"></a>And Now For Something Completely Different Part 2: Roasting the X-Men!
Written with a Gleeful Grin by Tom Toner

Someone told me the other day, “Hey, it’s the 40th anniversary of the X-Men!” I looked at him and said, “No. The X-Men died years ago... at around the time of Alan Davis’ run.” I mean, think about it: first you kick out fan-favorite writers Joe Kelly and Steve Seagle, and then you replace them with Alan Davis, whose stories turn the X-Men books to hell. The Twelve, the storyline Marvel had been hyping for the last few decades, full of potential and great historical developments, was completely ruined (Hello, Franklin Richards has long been known to be part of The Twelve!). After Davis we had the second coming of Christ, so to speak... or at least, that’s what we thought... we all believed that Claremont’s second run on the titles he, for all intents and purposes, created, would be something special. But instead many fans were left with a bad, vile taste in their mouth where phrases like “the Neo” will never find a way to escape.

Understand that Claremont’s run was so bad that they had to replace him with Scott Lobdell. Let that sink in for a bit. Once it does, you’ll realize why I said the X-Men died years ago. Lobdell replace Claremont? No, that’ll never happen. So after an “interim” status as writer, Lobdell got replaced with three guys. Yes, three guys... because at this point, the X-Men franchise had grown to 3 books: Uncanny X-Men, New X-Men, and X-Treme X-Men.

What’s up with New X-Men anyway? Every month I intend to pick up a copy of New X-men, but instead I somehow pick up a copy of something that should be labeled Saved by the Bell: The Mutant Days. And what’s so “New” about the X-Men, besides the team becoming nothing more then a set of teachers? I swear, the only thing keeping New X-Men alive has got to be the completely original Xorn. Glad he’s around and not going through some nonsensical retcon or something.

Grant has this bad habit of constantly ignoring X-Men history (Hi, Unus! Looking better than last time we saw you... y'know, when you were dead....). But I have to admit, it’s great the New X-Men only have one writer, because they’ve had a LOT of pencilers on the title. Frank Quitely, Ethan Van Sciver, Igor Kordey, etc., but none of those pencilers could pack the punch that Grant was swinging. And the way things have been going, I’m sure Sal Larocca will be on New X-Men in no time.

Uncanny’s the closet thing we have to telling real X-Men stories. But then again, this is a leaderless team of X-Men. Wait, I just got a memo and it says that Nightcrawler is the leader. No, wait, a new memo says that Angel is the actual leader of the team. This just in... Havok, of all people, is the leader. When will we have a clear-cut leader? Time will only tell. After all, people like Iceman, Polaris, Juggernaut, Nurse Annie, Beak, and Sammy the Squid Boy have yet to have their turn as leader. So once they become leader we’ll know for sure who will be the true leader of this team... right?

The main problem with Uncanny is its creative team. Joe Casey or Chuck Austin. I’d name the pencilers... but there were so many that you can’t count them on a single hand. To these guys, A good long-term run on the title meant penciling more than a single arc... if they could even handle a single arc.

You take the good, you take the bad, you take them both and then you have... X-Treme X-Men. Even with his bad second run on the two X-Men books, they gave Claremont his own title to run with and do whatever he pleased. Marvel saw in Claremont something very important: the ability to bring in money. His name has this appeal, there are a lot of fans that will pick up any book that he writes... so why not give him his own regular series and charge more for it than the other X-books?

So what’s wrong with Claremont? Let’s run through the average script, shall we? “I’m Lucas Bishop, and I’m a cop.” Take that one line and say it twenty times... in a single issue. When you’re done with that, have every character in the book (plus a few guest-stars and Wolverine) repeat who they are and what their powers are. Repeat some more. You think I’m kidding? For fun, go back to the first few arcs of X-Treme and count the number of times Bishop says to Thunderbird something along the lines of, “Shoot your plasma at me. I can absorb the energy and use it like I’m a battery.” Okay, you're a battery, Luke. We get the point. Are you trying to compensate for something?

But hey, Salvador Larroca’s the penciler! Claremont and Larroca, there’s nothing better then those two together. As long as these two are together, X-Treme X-Men will be a long-standing, successful series.

So what can we do to save the X-Men? I’ll tell you. First, there are just too many books to get. It would be fine if all three were separate books, but it’s when those books started to mix together that the problem started. So to save the franchise, kill off all the books and bring it back down to one. Maybe in a year or two we can spin-off a second title, but until then we’ll just leave it at one. Claremont would be brought in as writer, solely for the use of his name. But he would just be the plotter; we’ll pick up someone else to scribe his work. Claremont can make a good story, but doesn’t seem have to it in him anymore to tell those great stories. So whom do we get to tell those stories?

Fabian Nicieza. He did X-Men for a while. He was very successful on X-Force and Thunderbolts. He’s become a fan-favorite thanks to titles like Gambit and X-Men Forever. One final thing about the writers: They are allowed freedom from the editors to write the stories that they want to! The penciler? The only way to bring the X-Men back is to bring in the biggest name they can: Jim Lee. Short term, long term, whatever: just as long as Jim Lee gets signed. Once you get Claremont, Nicieza, and Lee together, it’ll be the old X-Men again.

But who is on this new team? Readers are tired of seeing the same old cast being brought on and run through the same plots over and over and over again. No, there won’t be any more of that. No more Jean Grey, no more Scott Summers, no more Ororo Munroe. And for god’s sake, Wolverine will NOT be there. It’s time for the X-Men to move on, and they wont be able to do that with those characters. Here are the "New" X-Men:

Cannonball, Sam Guthrie (The Leader): Sam has always been a leader, and he was destined to be a great member of the X-Men. He was hand-chosen by Xavier to be an X-Man back when no one ever made the leap from the lower-tier teams like X-Force, and Xavier probably even predicted that Sam would one day be the leader of that team. In fact, Sam’s had the privilege of being taught by some of the greatest leaders ever to roam the X-verse like Cyclops, Cable, and Professor Xavier. The leadership role needs a major rebuffing, and Cyclops and Storm are just getting old as the leaders. Enter Sam to bring a new spin on things.

Shadowcat (Co-Leader): In Claremont’s hands, Kitty has always been at her best. She’s got brains. She’s got brawn. She’s got everything you’ll need in an X-Man. She’s the perfect person to complement Sam as co-leader. The X-Men were always her home, it was where she belonged. Claremont has long had plans for her, and now will have the freedom to work with her again.

Iceman: The most underachieving of the “Fabulous Five” will become the “Only One." Jean and Scott were always there, Hank was an Avenger, and Warren is getting some major uplifting right now, so it’s finally Bobby’s turn to shine. It always seemed that with those other original icons around, he just had to underachieve. But without them on the team, he no longer needs to goof off: he can be the serious one. He brings an homage to the old team of X-Men while giving off that veteran experience to the younger crowd -- especially to the new leader, Sam. Sam and Bobby became friends long ago, when they were both undercover watching Graydon Creed. Although some time has passed since then, he’ll be there to give Sam some pointers and a person to talk to.

Marrow: Even without Wolverine, the X-Men need someone who is like him. And when you think deeply about it, Marrow is perfect to be that mutant. She has a rage in her, she’s a wildcard... hell, she can pop out razor-sharp bones. There’s even been a hint that she has a healing factor. How else can you explain getting her heart ripped out by Storm and living? Sure, a “second heart” they retconned, but even then she’d need a damn good healing factor to mend all her organs, tissues, and whatnot together.

Chamber: Every team of X-Men needs a telepath. Like Marrow, he also falls into that “ugly” category, where somewhere on the team has to be deformed. With some field time out of the way, Jono is no longer that naïve little rookie that he once was. Chamber never really got much of a chance to be an X-Man in his first run: Casey completely wrote him out of character. In the final issue of Generation X, Chamber was overjoyed to have been asked to join the X-Men. Next thing we know in Uncanny X-Men, he basically said, “screw you,” and moved to England to “be with” some Brittany wannabe. Conversely, under Claremont, Chamber will be at his best.

Blink: Blink was taken away from the fans before ever getting a chance… and that’s a shame. She made a huge impact in the Age of Apocalypse, and she quickly became a fan-favorite leading the team in Exiles. She’s also that teleporter that the team always seems to need (instead of going with Nightcrawler). She’s still new and has that “rookie” feel, and yet isn’t so new that she lacks meaning. Nothing irks a reader more then seeing the writer create a whole new character the join the team rather than finding an established character and building off of him or her.

The X-Men are floundering out there… the concept’s getting old, the well’s running dry. Time to shake things up and make this team, truly, the All-New, All-Different X-Men again.

<center><hr width=75%></center>

Tom Toner is just begging for hate-mail here, but it's all in good fun... we think. Stop laughing like that, Tom! Stop it! You're scaring me!

Now more than ever, the opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the writer, and are not reflective of ComiX-Fan or its other staff in general. It's just a joke (we think), and even if it isn't, blame Tom.

[NicholasRogue]

Jim Lee back on the X-Men would totally rock, CC and Lee were a fun run- I had to read the back issues because I was under 6 years old when they were on the book lol. But yuck! Leave Marrow out of it, I'm not a big Blink or Chamber fan either. I agree though about Kitty and Cannonball, they'd be great leaders.

[bmack]

Wow! While the Avengers line-up was kind of goofy... I would definetly buy this book! That line-up makes sense and could provide tons of great stories. I don't much like chamber though.... maybe we could leave Northstar on the team instead... since him and Bobby are getting so close...

Jim Lee!!! My kingdom for Jim Lee back on the X!!!!!

Sorry everyone, but sometimes I do think the older X-Men have to go. Let the new blood take over!!!

:iceman: :chamber: :marrow: :kitty: :blink: wait... no Cannonball smiley?!?

~ The Mack

[zen_cabbie]

I agree the X-Men has lost a certain flare they once had. It's ironic, though, since The Twelve was the X-Men storyline that got me seriouse about comics but made me lose interest in the X-Men. Until now (NXM 146).

It makes sense that the X-Men are once again students. But, yeah I would buy this book religiously if it was real.

[bugalugs1]

Okay
I'd SO buy that title if it came out
Though I'd possibly alter the line up during the first arc, so that Illyana from the Exiles and Blink trade places
I'd love to see how Kitty and an alternate Illyana functions..

But that's just me

Some great comments, well done Tom!!

(and best of all, the cover to Ladies Night!!! yay!!
:rogue: :dazzler: :jubilee: :betsy: :storm:

[Zachary J. Morrison]

I could definitely see Kitty as the leader instead of Sam.

[Cloud]

That's one awesome team! It (almost) has all of my favorites:
Iceman
Chamber
Blink
Cannonball

only Nightcrawler & Havok are missing.

[Sabretooth]

Very intriguing team here! I'm sorry though, Wolverine should still be left there...Marrow' tries too hard to be a good character and should just get it over with and get gutted by Sabretooth already. Besides, Wolverine usually means sales and he's the fan favorite by many, including myself. Gambit hasn't really done much on the X-Men either. He hasn't been too over-used yet, so I think I'd rather have those two than say Marrow. Heck, just add Gambit as an extra, you know you'd wanna. ;)

[kitoy]

I would buy this book if they published it. I disagree with adding Marrow to the line up, I can't stand her, or the "relationship" she had with Cannonball.

On the other side, I guess any line up of X-characters has to have one member that you can't stand. The list of annoying characters who went on to respectability is pretty long: Bishop, Cable, Deadpool, Boom Boom and the grand-daddy of them all . . . Wolverine. Though there are a few all-around stinkers as well: Maggot, Cecilia Reyes, Bird Boy, Random, etc.

[Zach Kinkead]

Originally posted by phoenx
I could definitely see Kitty as the leader instead of Sam.

*Nods*

Besides, Cable Jr. never has been much good for anything other than blowing stuff up :p

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

I dig the line up...but i'd replace Kitty with Dani. And give Kitty and Rachel their own "Birds of Prey" style book, where they're college students AND reluctant superheroes. And...hmm, i'd bring on Jubilee (both because the team could use more estrogen and so she can FINALLY hook up with Iceman) and Wolverine as a sort of "mentor" Prof. X type character. As for the creative team...hmm, i say bump Claremont up to editor of the books (who knows this stuff better than him) and bring on Brian K. Vaughn to script. And Jim Lee's had his go...let him take on those icons at the distinguished competition and give us someone a bit newer to the franchise. I'll throw out as a name...Mike Deodato Jr. (whose artwork i adore) or Ethan Van Sciver. As for my idea of a spin off with Rachel and Kitty (title TBA, lol)...well, give me scripting duties and give me Richard Case (formerly of Hunter: The Age of Magic) to draw, or EVS (can you tell i want to see more Van Sciver work? lol). And then, my friends, we will be on the verge of a perfect. world. :D

[TracyNichols]

Yeah! I totally agree with getting rid of Scott and Jean!

The only problem I have with that line up is Marrow...I can't stand her. Replace her with Shatterstar and I'm sold!

[Namor 1111a]

I think it's an interesting concept. Yes I also agree the X-Men have lost there flare that they once had. Marc Silvestri returning to the X-Men full time is the closest thing to Jim Lee coming back. So luckily Silvestri is signed until 2006. Having Chris Claremont and Fabian Nicieza co-write the book is an interesting idea, as long as they have free reign like Morrison did on his run. You have an interesting roster. I would drop Marrow from the roster and put Wolverine in her place. Then I would add Gambit, Rouge, and Beast to the roster. The only other change I would make is the leader, we don't need a co-leader system. We just need one simple stand out leader. Also that Leader would not be Cannonball or Shadowcat. I would make.... this one's going to throw people for a loop, Iceman team leader. Yes you are right he nolonger needs to be goofy, he needs to be majorly serious. And to me he has great potential to make a decent leader.

[silverboy]

I, for one, am completely confused. You want to retire all the old X-Men, but you want to bring back the oldest one of all...Claremont?!

That guy needs to retire! He's got nothing left in him! Let the young blood take over and stop stringing CC along just for nostalgia sake.

Sorry for rocking the boat.

[bmack]

Originally posted by silverboy
I, for one, am completely confused. You want to retire all the old X-Men, but you want to bring back the oldest one of all...Claremont?!

That guy needs to retire! He's got nothing left in him! Let the young blood take over and stop stringing CC along just for nostalgia sake.

Blasphemy! How dare you :mad:

Forgive him Chris, for he knows not what he says...

:worthy: Acolyte of Claremont :worthy:

~ The Mack

[Morgan-Paladin71]

I do like the idea of tossing Jean and Cyclops out, they've gotten stale, And Storm and Logan need a break too, putting Chamber in as a full-time X-man would be very good as well. I would definately buy this book(it'll probably never happen, but we can dream can't we?

[S3V3N]

Wow. Lots of disrespect going around. Site editors: Isn't this article more fitting for a "YOUR TURN @ X-FAN"? This was supposed to be a roast, humorous jabs with love at heart.

Instead, the majority of this opportunity was used to slam the only creator who is decent enough to visit this board and interact with people. You could have at least said something nice and endearing...that's how "roasts" work.

It's widely known that editorial shake ups (from the EIC down) did a lot to contribute to Chris' lackluster second run. But thanks for perpetuating the oh-so-fashionable "His Older Stuff Was Better" rhetoric.

In the end I have to wonder why is somebody so bitter about a title that they probably aren't ever going to read?

[Nick Costanzo]

Dear god S3V3N lighten up a roast is SUPPOSED to make fun of things. If Chris reads this, he knows that the X-Men are going to get slammed, most likely by somebody who doesn't like the X-Men. Its a roast!

Anyway, add Archangel to that lineup and its golden.

[BenedictX]

I actually really like this line-up, and I would make no changes. (although i could kind of see a Kitty-Bobby romance brewing, but that's probaly blasphemy.)

food for thought . . . could you see these characters in the hands of a writer like Christopher Priest?

BenX

[S3V3N]

Outlawstarr:

I wrote that because this "roast" was poorly written. It didn't focus on the X-Men character cliches while evoking humor, the majority of the "roasting" focused on one particular creator and comes off as a rant.

I'm sure Chris will read this, and will probably be too much of a gentleman to acknowledge it.

Hopefully, at that point, Skippy will step in.

[Gat0r-ManX]

WOW... totally LOVE that team!

Now THAT's XTreme X-Men!!!

[Beast's Blue Balls]

I like Cannonball, Shadowcat, and Iceman. But Marrow, Chamber, and Blink, should NOT be X-Men. Replace Marrow, Chamber, and Blink with these guys.

1.Firestar-Angelica and Bobby should team up again for nostalgia's sake.(Everyone remembers Spiderman and his amazing friends)"RIGHT"

2.Juggernaut-I love the idea of a Non-Mutant member that is still a member of the X-Men family. Xaviers brother Cain fills the void of a wild-card character, with much attitude, and balls. Plus, everyone loves to see Cain kick a$$ and take names.

3.Madrox the Multiple Man-Jamie Madrox is the bomb. Get he and Bobby together in the same room, and let the laughs begin. Plus, Madrox is a one-man army.

4.As for the writer-artist combo, how about one guy doing both. The one man for the job is "ADAM WARREN". He is one hellova writer and artist, and would be the perfect writer for a young X-Men team.

[Steve]

It's interesting to see other people's opinions and how different they can be from mine. In my opinion the X-Men had died after X-Men (new series) #3. I used to just wish Claremont would come back and imagined how he would have written things if he was still there. I never liked Fabian Nicenza's work. I guess it must be a generation gap. I thought younger people didn't read comics anymore. I am pushing thirty and I always seem to be the youngest person in the comic store. It's interesting and good to see fans who fondly remember X-Force as their first comic, etc.
I am a Claremont mark, so I disagree with the article. My first X-men issue was Uncanny X-Men #224. In November of 2002 I returned to the X-men. I love X-treme X-Men and since Schism it has been my favorite X-Men book. I have since collected all the back issues of X-treme except for the Savage Land mini-series. But even I had to laugh at the roasting and Claremont-isms! I hated Thunderbird, Slipstream, and Lifeguard too so I could chuckle a bit.

I only have X-MEN #100 of the NEO run. I liked the issue. But the almost universal dislike of the NEO run makes me want to buy them all to see if its really that bad! Did anyone like the NEO run?

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

i enjoyed the idea of the Neo and if it had been communicated a bit more clearly (by the art) and been executed in the writing as it was intended (editorial's fault), i think it would have been a very nice addition to the canon, especially after years of fighting the same villains over and over and over again.

[S3V3N]

The Neo got a bad rap. The character designs needed work (the fault of the artist IMO) and the Editorial shakeups hurt things a lot.

Many people thought the concept of the secret society of Neo was too far-fetched, but if you think about it...many of Chris' classic story settings used this motif...remember Savage Land? remember Morlocks? remember Nova Roma? It just needed time.

Why do people seem to forget that there was an incredible editorial shake up from the EIC down, within months of Chris' return?

[Dragon]

I can't beleve someone would replace Logan with the useless Marrow, comeone Marrow is in no leagues of Logan. The rest of the list is fine

[xman4life]

Here are the &quot;New&quot; X-Men:

Cannonball, Sam Guthrie (The Leader): Sam has always been a leader, and he was destined to be a great member of the X-Men. He was hand-chosen by Xavier to be an X-Man back when no one ever made the leap from the lower-tier teams like X-Force, and Xavier probably even predicted that Sam would one day be the leader of that team. In fact, Sam’s had the privilege of being taught by some of the greatest leaders ever to roam the X-verse like Cyclops, Cable, and Professor Xavier. The leadership role needs a major rebuffing, and Cyclops and Storm are just getting old as the leaders. Enter Sam to bring a new spin on things.

Shadowcat (Co-Leader): In Claremont’s hands, Kitty has always been at her best. She’s got brains. She’s got brawn. She’s got everything you’ll need in an X-Man. She’s the perfect person to complement Sam as co-leader. The X-Men were always her home, it was where she belonged. Claremont has long had plans for her, and now will have the freedom to work with her again.

Iceman: The most underachieving of the “Fabulous Five” will become the “Only One.&quot; Jean and Scott were always there, Hank was an Avenger, and Warren is getting some major uplifting right now, so it’s finally Bobby’s turn to shine. It always seemed that with those other original icons around, he just had to underachieve. But without them on the team, he no longer needs to goof off: he can be the serious one. He brings an homage to the old team of X-Men while giving off that veteran experience to the younger crowd -- especially to the new leader, Sam. Sam and Bobby became friends long ago, when they were both undercover watching Graydon Creed. Although some time has passed since then, he’ll be there to give Sam some pointers and a person to talk to.

Marrow: Even without Wolverine, the X-Men need someone who is like him. And when you think deeply about it, Marrow is perfect to be that mutant. She has a rage in her, she’s a wildcard... hell, she can pop out razor-sharp bones. There’s even been a hint that she has a healing factor. How else can you explain getting her heart ripped out by Storm and living? Sure, a “second heart” they retconned, but even then she’d need a damn good healing factor to mend all her organs, tissues, and whatnot together.

Chamber: Every team of X-Men needs a telepath. Like Marrow, he also falls into that “ugly” category, where somewhere on the team has to be deformed. With some field time out of the way, Jono is no longer that naïve little rookie that he once was. Chamber never really got much of a chance to be an X-Man in his first run: Casey completely wrote him out of character. In the final issue of Generation X, Chamber was overjoyed to have been asked to join the X-Men. Next thing we know in Uncanny X-Men, he basically said, “screw you,” and moved to England to “be with” some Brittany wannabe. Conversely, under Claremont, Chamber will be at his best.

Blink: Blink was taken away from the fans before ever getting a chance… and that’s a shame. She made a huge impact in the Age of Apocalypse, and she quickly became a fan-favorite leading the team in Exiles. She’s also that teleporter that the team always seems to need (instead of going with Nightcrawler). She’s still new and has that “rookie” feel, and yet isn’t so new that she lacks meaning. Nothing irks a reader more then seeing the writer create a whole new character the join the team rather than finding an established character and building off of him or her.

I would love to see this team, sounds like it would be great!



The X-Men are floundering out there… the concept’s getting old, the well’s running dry. Time to shake things up and make this team, truly, the All-New, All-Different X-Men again.

Thank you! Someone finally said it!

:D ;)

[Wolverine]

CC and Lee, Byrne/Lobdell and Portacio and Liefeld/Nicezia. Perfect old school creative teams

[The Mattimeo]

I would by that title first chance I get. Cannonball should be an X-men Leader, He's trained by the best and is damn good himself. I'd love to see hoe Claremont would treat Chamber. He's in need of some real development since he's had... well.... none since Lobdell. The rest of the team rocks. Finally Iceman would get a chance to shine.

[Canuckle-cutter]

Originally posted by Sabretooth
Very intriguing team here! I'm sorry though, Wolverine should still be left there...Marrow' tries too hard to be a good character and should just get it over with and get gutted by Sabretooth already. Besides, Wolverine usually means sales and he's the fan favorite by many, including myself. Gambit hasn't really done much on the X-Men either. He hasn't been too over-used yet, so I think I'd rather have those two than say Marrow. Heck, just add Gambit as an extra, you know you'd wanna. ;)

i agree with you sabretooth, i'd have wolvie on instead of marrow, i didn't like her character too much, and gambit, well, he's just one heck of a cool character, and therefore should be included. :)

[Tom 2TUM Toner]

Originally posted by S3V3N
I wrote that because this &quot;roast&quot; was poorly written. It didn't focus on the X-Men character cliches while evoking humor, the majority of the &quot;roasting&quot; focused on one particular creator and comes off as a rant.

Originally posted by S3V3N
In the end I have to wonder why is somebody so bitter about a title that they probably aren't ever going to read?

the ironic part in all of this is the fact that X-Treme X-Men is by far my favorite comic to come out every month, and that i'd buy ANYTHING that CC writes, cause i love him so much (look at my Gen13 collection for starters lol)

ps. and remember that this IS a satirical article.

[Kavalier]

This makes me sad. The X-Men were so important to me in my childhood, as I'm sure they were for many of us. I dropped out in the early nineties because I needed to start spending my money on girls, and comic books were too expensive. And the stories, as we all know, were getting pretty lame.

I am back now, however, and I am really enjoying what I am reading. Claremont's stories aren't innovative, but they are fun. Grant is a little disrespectful, but his stories are innovative. And Chuck... still figuring him out, but manoman so much better than Casey. Wow, that was really the worst run I have ever read.

My only sadness is the redundency of the books. X-Factor in both of its line-ups always had its own concept that was distinct from the X-men. But now we have two books about the school, two books about strike teams, and a handful of solo books that don't seem to connect back to the rest of the world.

Lastly, hearing about how the Twelve was screwed up makes me so depressed. That was the big uber-story that everything else always felt like chapters of. To have things like Franklin and Sam Guthrie not being one of the twelve, is just offensive. Is there any way Marvel would ever go back and tell this story correctly? Is it worth me reading at all?

As long as I'm at it: I dropped out from around 1993 to september 2001. Is there anything I should make sure to read? Was ANYTHING good? I like what I've read of the Age of Apocalypse, and am trying to collect all of them. Anything else?

K

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

how is Morrison disrespectful?

then again, you said Austen was better than Casey...so you're obviously on a different plane of reality from me. ;)

[Zach Kinkead]

Originally posted by Jordan T. Maxwell
how is Morrison disrespectful?

then again, you said Austen was better than Casey...so you're obviously on a different plane of reality from me. ;)

Maybe he woke up in the evil mirror universe (yes, there's a whole universe out there filled with evil mirrors)

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! NOT EVIL MIRRORS!!!!

[GuyX]

Wow even though this thread was throughly hijacked but its all gravy....for the record I LOVE this lineup...I would so buy this...but eh we all no how the masses love the status quo.

[Namor 1111a]

I think Claremont+Nicieza as writers with Marc Silvestri as the artist would rock. If they could just put a good roster on that book. Knowing those two as writers they would boot Xaiver. Chris would want to keep Phoenix, Wolverine, and Beast. Fabian would want to keep Cyclops, Wolverine, and Beast. So the roster would not change. And after Chris's turn with Emma Frost over in X-Tream he would like to take another crack at her long term. If Chris+Fabian+Marc are on the book most likely Nightcrawler would get pulled over from Uncanny, finally people who care about the character and would give him development and love so he can grow and get good well developed storylines. Then Chris could resurrect Psylocke over in X-Tream and then bring her over to New. Aww one can dream can't he?

[justjeremy]

I'm shocked that someone (other than me) actually wants to take a break from Jean, Scott, Ororo and Wolvie....

Something that occurs to me: it seems that whenever a writer takes time to focus on new or lesser known characters it is almost always met with extreme criticism for something or another. For instance, CC gave us Thunderbird, Lifeguard and Slipstream and they are some of the most hated characters of all time. I understand that there is something to be said for the quality of those characters, but I think what X-Men fans (and me in particular) want is a little more rotation. There are so many good characters with neat powers and pre-established history just floating around in limbo it just seems ridiculous and unfair to have Wolvie and the Phoenix force blazing through two or three titles a month.

Obviously, there is something to be said for the aformentioned overused characters. They're popular. The question is, how did they get that way? Oh that's right, they were written about and people began to like them. I can't imagine how a character could be expected to amass a fan base by appearing in three panels once every five years.

I suppose the only way for a character to break into the limelight is to sleep with Scott or Jean...

[Sabretooth]

Originally posted by Canuckle-cutter


i agree with you sabretooth, i'd have wolvie on instead of marrow, i didn't like her character too much, and gambit, well, he's just one heck of a cool character, and therefore should be included. :)

Thanks pal, it's good to know some people respect the two coolest X-Men as much as I do. They're just characters you can't help but enjoy, and for those people that don't, it's usually because they're on the band wagon of disliking popular characters.

PS: I never fully understood the Neo concept. The next stage of MUTANT evolution? C'mon now, that is a little goofy...what made their powers so different from a regular mutie's? I liked Domina's design, but the other ones were kinda goofy looking.

[Kavalier]

Originally posted by Jordan T. Maxwell
how is Morrison disrespectful?

then again, you said Austen was better than Casey...so you're obviously on a different plane of reality from me. ;)

Disrespectful... maybe the wrong word, especially having read his interview over at Comicbookresrouces. He clearly has a lot of respect for Chris's old stuff.

What I mean by disrespectful is character behavior that I (personally) feel is out of character. For instance: I have read a lot of fans complain that the resurrection of Jean cheapened the Dark Phoenix Saga. But that story wasn't just about sacrifice. It was also about a love so strong and perfect that it could save a universe. And while I don't think that exists in the real world, I have to believe that Scott is simply incapable of not loving Jean totally, absolutely, and completely to understand that classic story. I think having Scott cheat cheapens the DPS.

That's what I meant by disrespectuf. On the other hand I have really enjoyed his run more than any since Claremont/Lee.

As far as Austin/Casey goes. Yeah, I guess we're in different worlds. Austin is unremarkable, but enjoyable. Casey... whew. That was simply the absolute low point of the X-Men as far as I have read (keeping in mind I was gone from 1993-2001). I don't mean to knock Casey, some of his other work is very interesting. But his X-Men... ugh. How many issues was that X-corps plot? What happened? Couldn't the whole thing have been 3 issues? Six max. And the dialogue... Sorry. We're in different worlds I guess.

K

[magiklover]

I just wanted to mention( which it seems every other poster forgot) That was a roast... not a name your own x-men lineup. I loved your comments about Xorn and I am Lucas Bishop... priceless...

[Kavalier]

Originally posted by magiklover
I just wanted to mention( which it seems every other poster forgot) That was a roast... not a name your own x-men lineup. I loved your comments about Xorn and I am Lucas Bishop... priceless...

I have to assume CC is just making fun of himself at this point. The "I am a battery" thing was hilarious, and so true!

K

[WeaponX]

I need to count myself in with the true believers. Wolverine and Gambit are musts on an X-Men line up. Maybe that’s the X-Men Blue team fan in me talking but man they are the best.

Sorry but I like CC and it pains me to say this but the man just doesn't have it anymore. All of his stories seem more like X-Men for dummies then X-treme X-Men. I think letting him write the plot and have someone else write the book is a great idea.

Finally I just must say that all of this stuff is why I read Ultimate X-Men. Its just so much better then the other X-titles everything is fresh and as long as it's being written by a writer with some balls who isn't afraid to change things up its a great title.

Also to jump start the X-titles again cut it down to X-Men and Uncanny X-Men (and Ultimate X-men but this is not a core title) and make them two strike teams again with seperate rosters. Put Sal on uncanny with Clarmont and Brandis. And put Andy Kurbet and Mark Millar on X-Men. (And while we are at it put Adam on Ultimate X-Men)

As far as the teams go have X-Men consist of Nightcrawler as leader, Wolverine, Gambit, Rouge, Shadow cat , and Dazzler. For Uncanny have Beast lead the team, Banshee, Emma Frost, Iceman, Bishop, Husk.

[Douglas Cuckler]

Originally posted by Dragon
I can't beleve someone would replace Logan with the useless Marrow, comeone Marrow is in no leagues of Logan. The rest of the list is fine

I believe the only reason Logan (or is that James:? ) is in that league is because an ungodly amount of people have written him. Writtin him straight into the ground.

It's about time some of these others had a chance to shine. let

Jean and Scott go somehwere for a long time.

Let Ororo be someone's queen.

Let Wolverine know Marvel will never reveal all of his origin.

Tell Wolfsbane, Marrow, Cannonball, Firestar, Moonstar, Kitty, Jubilation, and Sunspot it's time to shine. (my team)

[HandofGod]

my dream team for a real Uncanny X-Men going back to the old school ideals =
:wanda: and Quicksliver- actually taking an active rule as mutants and avengers. Wanda has never been an X-Men it would be awesome to see her in X-men Skivies. And I could see it happen after the new x-men run and magneto's influence.
Wanda would be the team powerhouse and Quicksilver would probably be in the title for a few issues before being replaced cause thats Quicksliver....I would have Wanda as team leader. she has experience in this.

M- and not the sad thing they made her out to be in X-Corps or the last few Gen Xs.
I'm talking the confident perfect princess of power/brains and weirdness, that we all loved and were thrilled to see in action during Phalanx covenant and most of Gen. X...provides telepathic talent if needed but is mostly the strong arm of the team.

ShadowCat-she is coolest character currently in the books.
I actually enjoyed her short run with X-treme Xmen

Multiple Man- Weird powers rule. How could you not reuse him

Cannonball and :lila: - you got to have a couple. provides at least a little filler. they are both underused great characters and Lila is the best teleporter around

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

Originally posted by Kavalier


Disrespectful... maybe the wrong word, especially having read his interview over at Comicbookresrouces. He clearly has a lot of respect for Chris's old stuff.

What I mean by disrespectful is character behavior that I (personally) feel is out of character. For instance: I have read a lot of fans complain that the resurrection of Jean cheapened the Dark Phoenix Saga. But that story wasn't just about sacrifice. It was also about a love so strong and perfect that it could save a universe. And while I don't think that exists in the real world, I have to believe that Scott is simply incapable of not loving Jean totally, absolutely, and completely to understand that classic story. I think having Scott cheat cheapens the DPS.

That's what I meant by disrespectuf. On the other hand I have really enjoyed his run more than any since Claremont/Lee.

As far as Austin/Casey goes. Yeah, I guess we're in different worlds. Austin is unremarkable, but enjoyable. Casey... whew. That was simply the absolute low point of the X-Men as far as I have read (keeping in mind I was gone from 1993-2001). I don't mean to knock Casey, some of his other work is very interesting. But his X-Men... ugh. How many issues was that X-corps plot? What happened? Couldn't the whole thing have been 3 issues? Six max. And the dialogue... Sorry. We're in different worlds I guess.

K

See, i find Morrison's characterizations very spot on (yeah, even his Sage). And Scott's behavior is very in line with what we've seen of him in the past, ESPECIALLY under Claremont's pen.

And Austen's a good idea man, but poor on execution and i'm only barely starting to be able to enjoy him again. Where Casey i've always enjoyed...even on Poptopia, though that was more for seeing what could've been there and some cool little details in it that i found really entertaining. But Poptopia is the only story of his that i wasn't completely wrapped up in. I wish his run had lasted longer...especially because of what's come since.

[dasklein83]

Wow, I think that you are being a little overly harsh here. Let's sit back and look at this for a second.

Unus-okay, that was a mistake. However, look at the context in which he was included. The untouchable man being haunted by 16 million people, in 9/11 tribute issue. Yeah, he died in an issue of spectacular spiderman that no one besides us merry, hardcore few remember, but you really couldn't have pulled this scene off with anyone but him. Let it go man, this is utterly minascule in the grand scheme of things.

Kelly and Seagle-Why do people persist in worshipping these guys? There stories really were not that good. Rouge wants to lose her powers...yeah, that's original. While some of their ideas were good, the presenation was somewhat lacking and overly convoluted. Hunt for Xavier anyone. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't bad stuff, but it wasn't exceptional in any sense of the word.

Davis- Can this poor man get any more crap? He was saddled with a 12 year old plot that started in like X-factor number 12. He was forced to wade through conflicting plot elements from Lobdell, Niceza, Claremont and Casey. For what it was, the 12 wasn't bad. You want Franklin? I'm sorry. Attribute it to all of the constant time travel stuff that has occured since he was originally mentioned as a member of the 12.

Claremont- The man was screwed in his second run with hideous editorial interference. X-Treme's direction has been forcibly changed, and will be probably be done so again. Give the man a break.

X-Treme is great old school nostalgia, New X-Men is amazing, and Uncanny...well, Uncanny is, well, Uncanny. I'm not fond of Austen, but I'm not going to sit here and harrang him when I've got midterm to write.

[zona75]

Great article. Finally someone that seems to have read my mind about all that is x-men lately. I'm tired of the 90210 feel of New X-men, isn't that what the revived New Mutants series is for. Uncanny has seemed extremly unbalanced for years now, and Xtreme, as much as I love Claremont, is getting on my nerves b/c I'm tired of every issue feeling like an intro issue, I really don't need to have everyone's powers explained to me again, for christ sike I've been reading x-men since the 80's, trust me I know how everyone's powers work, really I swear it.

This idea for a real new team is quite good. I like the entire cast, except for Chamber, I say drop him and use M instead. The team could use a strength character, and there used to be all sorts hints dropped that M could be a telepath back in the days of Generation X. Not too sure about blink either, I mean she's dead, the exiles Blink isn't the 616 Blink, so how bout Lile Chenney instead, maybe her and Sam finally got married or some such and she wants to be at his side regardless now. All sorts of possabilities.

The choice of writers works very well for me. And I love the idea of Jim Lee coming back, better yet lets rotate arcs between Jim Lee, Sal Larocca, and Ethan Van Sciver. Sure this would mean that story arcs would have to be planned out months in advance, but hey at least there wouldn't as many problems with issues being delayed.

And one last thing to be said. NO WOLVERINE. Thank god for that. I am simply beyond tired of him. He is as over-used as Hootie and Blowfish were overplayed throughout the 90's. Sure Marvel thinks putting him in all books that exist will increase sales, but for me it is a deterrent.

[Feedback]

I love that line-up, the only one I'm unsure about is Blink cause she's dead and all, and I think characters should saty that way. but I don't think canning 2 of the books is needed to clean-up the x-men line, maybe that line-up would work in New X-men since it's a new younger line-up then for uncanny I'd go with

Jean
Havok
Polaris
Beast
Scarlet Witch
Northstar
Dazzler
Dr. Cecilia Reyes

since the X-Men have been "outed" I think this line-up would help to make the public more open to them 2 former Avengers, a former actress/singer, a best selling author/Olympic athlete, plus a educated doctor

That gives you a good PR team that can kick some ass

anmd leave the X-Treme team alone

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

for the record, as i understand, we never actually SAW Unus die. It was just implied.

[Martin Dudek]

SOme parts of this seem a little out of date (Sal hasn't been on X-Treme for a while, Xorn isn't Xorn, Uncanny now has two regular artists, etc.) but I enjoyed it. I love the proposed team as well

[Tom 2TUM Toner]

Originally posted by X-Treme_Iceman
SOme parts of this seem a little out of date (Sal hasn't been on X-Treme for a while, Xorn isn't Xorn, Uncanny now has two regular artists, etc.)

that was actually part of the humor *shame*

[salvador]

Nice article. I don't agree with everything,but an unique title with a new team is a perfect idea. I don't like very much Chamber, but penciled by Jim Lee I can stand even him!

[ine6139]

I loved your choice of team members. That would be a interesting combo. I do not like the artist who is currently drawing X-Treme X-men. They need that Sal guy back pronto! How about a all female team?

[Legend]

Originally posted by S3V3N
Wow. Lots of disrespect going around. Site editors: Isn't this article more fitting for a &quot;YOUR TURN @ X-FAN&quot;? This was supposed to be a roast, humorous jabs with love at heart.

Instead, the majority of this opportunity was used to slam the only creator who is decent enough to visit this board and interact with people. You could have at least said something nice and endearing...that's how &quot;roasts&quot; work.

This wasnt a roast. This was just plain ugliness. Shameful. :(

[Roberto Polanco]

nononono! no jim lee, Tom. only Mad will be the best! haHA!!!

[John-boy]

Marvel I hope you're listening cuz this is one of the best X-teams I've ever seen. Even if I thing an artist like "Mad Dog" would be better, or even the former Flash artist would be awesome; something needs to be done. I can't remember the last good story I've reed out of the x-office. I feel like a battered wife, always hoping that one day things would get better, but each month I see that I'm wrong ... cuz each month it keeps getting worst.

[Patrick James]

Iceman in the limelight...GENIUS!!! My favorite character has been pushed to the back ever since OZT and hasn't had a chance to do anything since. Give him a life, some romance, a greater role in the team dynamics. He can be serious, so let him be both.

As for Cannonball as leader...meh. I'm not a big Sam fan, but he still seems a little young to me to lead the team.

And dang it, leave Shadowcat out of it. Her farewell story after Colossus's death was brilliant and the perfect way to say goodbye to her character for many years. But she's managed to find her way into too many arcs since then and it weakens her goodbye to continue reappearing. Let her grow up and make her decisions off-panel, or give her her own title where she doesn't have to be a super-hero.

Originally posted by justjeremy

Something that occurs to me: it seems that whenever a writer takes time to focus on new or lesser known characters it is almost always met with extreme criticism for something or another. For instance, CC gave us Thunderbird, Lifeguard and Slipstream and they are some of the most hated characters of all time.


That was certainly the case when Lobdell and the Kelly/Seagle tried to flesh out Marrow a few years back. She got met with the biggest fan backlash in quite a while. However, that same year, Cecilia Reyes was intorduced and given a big limelight during OZT and no one complained a bit. Actually, she has gained quite a sizeable following, for someone rarely in the books anymore. So, that said, I think that newer characters are met with disdain only if their concepts are old, stale, overused or stereotypical.

Now, how's about we spring Cecilia from Neverland and put her in Uncanny, as a REAL doctor.

[Karmapoliced]

Count me in on a title with Shadowcat! Especially as co-leader. I like the line up. Even with Marrow. I always thought she had much more potential before the mess that is Weapon X. Hopefully someone will put her to good use when that title *prays* get's the AXE!

[Bluetiger]

I'd buy this book too. I like the lineup, and I think some of the X-Men mainstays need a break. And who doesn't now and then?

[Namor 1111a]

I personally would like to see Scott and Jean take a break. I would aslo like to see some characters who are being shafted with character development like Iceman be moved onto a squad were he could shine. So ya I would buy this book if it was released, I don't agree with some of the cast, but you can't have everything.

[maggottman]

I think you've undervalued the story line of the Twelve. Really, it makes perfect sense. I haven't read the Twelve in years, but it was so clear, I'm sure I can recite it from memory. First, after recovering Destiny's diary, there was this text blurb where Kitty pointed out that the 12 cited by Mastermold and the Twelve that Apocalypse was worried about are two different lists. So, we have two completely different lists, both coincidentally part of a major evil villain's plan for the future, and both coincidentally having the same name. Moving on, Apocalypse's plan was brilliant. He planted the list of the Twelve as if they were vital to stopping him, and waited for most of those 12 to come to him. And he made sure the X-Men would get this list by taking advantage of Destiny's powers so she would write the diary that Shadowcat found, which he did by um... Moving on, Apocalypse's choice of Horsemen was also very deliberate to acheiving his outcome. Taking Deathbird gave him a tie to the lost-in-the-future Bishop. Taking Wolverine as Death created a diversion that kept a number of the non-Twelve X-Men out of the way while his plan was going through. Taking Caliban as War made sure Cable would go after him. And taking Ahab as a horseman allowed him to... um... Moving on, Apocalypse managed to perform all of his deeds not with the usual team of mutants, but with a large amount Skrulls, who furthered his goal of keeping everyone confused until he was ready... Wait. How did Apocalypse get the Skrulls to work for him? I mean, they pretty much hold the entire human species in contempt; why would they willingly become the lackies of a human, however powerful? Huh. Well, never mind.
Trying to stay vaguely on topic, I personally liked the Marrow and Cannonball "relationship". The only downside to it was that it made him seem even more the inexperienced rookie on the team that everyone complained about. But in an X-Men where he's in a leadership position, that wouldn't be a problem.

[Canuckle-cutter]

Originally posted by Sabretooth


Thanks pal, it's good to know some people respect the two coolest X-Men as much as I do. They're just characters you can't help but enjoy, and for those people that don't, it's usually because they're on the band wagon of disliking popular characters.

PS: I never fully understood the Neo concept. The next stage of MUTANT evolution? C'mon now, that is a little goofy...what made their powers so different from a regular mutie's? I liked Domina's design, but the other ones were kinda goofy looking.

i agree, and i also think its good to finally find someone who likes both remy and wolvie, like you said their two characters who a person who isn't on the hatin' bandwagon for some aparent reason couldn't help but like in some degree, what really bothers me is when people jump on the hating bandwagon without even knowing much of/if anything about the character.

as for the neo story line, i stopped collecting for a while, and i missed the whole neo thing, i have no idea what that was even about, i've only heard mentioning of the neo.

[justjeremy]

I definitely agree that Wolverine, and to a much lesser extent Gambit, are important to X-Men mythos and I don't think they should be wiped off the face of the earth or anything. I actually do like Wolverine (I really don't care about Gambit one way or another).

The thing with Wolverine (and Jean Grey, Cyclops and Storm) is that they've just been DONE so much...(ew, not like that). Think about how much more appreciated and special a Wolverine story would be if we didn't have him 'popping his claws' and 'going beserk' in every issue, three titles a month? Too much of a good thing is still too much...and in Wolvie's case WAY too much.

I have to say that most of my complaint probably doesn't center around the stories themselves. The Weapon X was the first sort of Wolverine story there's been in a while. It's everything else. It's the fact that for some reason he has to be in every single X-title and if he isn't, he has to be mentioned.

I guess my gripe is that all things X are oversaturated with Wolverine stuff and it has caused the actual character to suffer. Whenever I see Wolverine I just think 'marketing ploy', causing the good, well-written stories that Wolverine is included and necessary in to just sort of blend in with all the crap.

[Anthony Lucynski]

Oooohh. Tom. You devil. And I thought I could rile people up.

The student has surpased the master. Well done, loved it.

Anthony L

[dreamer]

man, kudos to tom, this has been an excellent review and yes, x-men have been very dead since the last 5 years. these have all been what i was yearning to say. yes, cutting the kelly/seagle run was an awfull mistake. twelve was the worst screw-up of a very very promising storyline! (regardless of wether the reasons for it was editorial intervention) second clearemont run was a disappointment. (hey we all love the guy very much mind you!) he is the master of all things x but his scripts just don't fit anymore. and i doo undersign every word wirtten here. (although the morrison run was finally growing in on me but now one of the most original characters in the last 3-4 years is ruined along with another death of magneto story, again!)

so, i am in complete support of the proposed x-men project with the team, but i just tought that we may have included some fresh new characters. remember, that was what the "overused" characters were when they were introduced as "all new, all different". i was going to suggest to leave out the chamber to include one or two completely new characters, one even from africa or a muslim country to investigate the prejudice and exclusion he faces along with our merry band of mutants, but now i understand that chamber has a really strong fan base and support. we can get this one into the new mutants maybe.

shadowcat as a leader gets my vote and i do agree that sam guthrie is an x-men destined to be. iceman as a more serious character and a kind of mentor is a perfect shot. marrow i think was not used up to her potential first time she wore an x. maybe she should bring along another morlock survivor (a new charcter, that is) and a bunch of interactions and relationships to explore upon. i agree to the idea of switching places btw blink and magik in the first arc, 'cause blink does belong to the exiles and magik should be a better addition to our cast.

what i see as a better complement to this revival project for x-men is also going to calm down hard-boiled jean-scott-volvie etc. fans. you see, wolverine still has his own title and it will be a major x site for all the characters related with him coming and going trough appereances. oh logan really needs a break from the x-men and he could still star in around 3-4 titles a month. jean and scott could have a 6 month mini-series, they work well in their own adventures. they can finally get to clear all the mess btw them and revisit the glorious moments of their history. they could settle down a place at the end of the series and continue doing what regular people do and maybe jean going into public relations business as a civil activist for mutant rights in the media and parliament and all. then we get an angel mini where he finds out the shadowy essence of psylocke and struggles to resurrect her. then it is storm mini watching her whatever she is doing. then we switch back to jean-scott with jean finally pregnant and expecting a rachel. beast and all the other guest apperances galore. then these minis could be the only thing keeping these folks out of the focus and finally cleaning up the road to a new generation of x-men.

oh, and ofcourse the return of the gambit series by fabian nicieza (now he's back in marvel) also starring rouge, bishop, nightcrawler and all...

now that would be perfect!

:bow:

[Boyo]

Why do you think Shadowcat and Cannonball should be leader?

Blink should be the leader of the lineup. She was in the Age of Apocalypse where she was in battle everyday of pretty much her life. She has seen millions die her teammates die right in front of her eyes. I mean thats only one reason.

Two she was the leader of the Exiles, that quite frankly is a harder job than being a 616 X-man. She had to be leader even though she didn't want to . Teammates of hers in the Exiles died too. She is reality hopping all the time fighting god know what.


Now if that isn't a true leader, then I don't know what you guys are thinking. Sam Guthrie pfffft, Kitty Pryde pffffftttt.

[Tom 2TUM Toner]

Originally posted by Boyo
Why do you think Shadowcat and Cannonball should be leader?

I don't think Kitty should lead, but co-leader the team w/ Sam, while he's the full leader. Why Sam the leader? He led the New Mutants pretty darn well. He led X-Force pretty darn well. He evne did pretty good in the X-Corps pretty darn well. He was taught by Professor Xavier, Scott Summers, Nate Summers, Peter Wisdom, etc. All great leaders taught him a thing or two. He'd make a perfect leader, in that he's seen everything from one extreme (the peaceful Xavier) to the next (the black ops Wisdom).

Originally posted by Boyo
Blink should be the leader of the lineup. She was in the Age of Apocalypse where she was in battle everyday of pretty much her life. She has seen millions die her teammates die right in front of her eyes. I mean thats only one reason.

Two she was the leader of the Exiles, that quite frankly is a harder job than being a 616 X-man. She had to be leader even though she didn't want to . Teammates of hers in the Exiles died too. She is reality hopping all the time fighting god know what.

you're assuming i meant the AOA/Exiles Blink when i said Blink. I was actually thinking more towards the 616 Clarice, who died way back when against the Phalanx. I was thinking more towards a ret-con that she didn't die but ported away somewhere else (not on Earth, maybe some other planet, some other universe...hell even some other dimension) and has finally made her way back home. CC could find a wya to explain it ;)

[Jordan T. Maxwell]

Originally posted by Tom 2TUM Toner


I don't think Kitty should lead, but co-leader the team w/ Sam, while he's the full leader. Why Sam the leader? He led the New Mutants pretty darn well. He led X-Force pretty darn well. He evne did pretty good in the X-Corps pretty darn well. He was taught by Professor Xavier, Scott Summers, Nate Summers, Peter Wisdom, etc. All great leaders taught him a thing or two. He'd make a perfect leader, in that he's seen everything from one extreme (the peaceful Xavier) to the next (the black ops Wisdom).

Amen. But i still say bring in Dani as co leader. She always seems to get shafted, in my opinion, and i'd love to see the New Mutant leadership team supreme back in action (and then of course give me Kitty and Rachel as per my previously stated plan. Bow to my will!)

And Sam also got training from this one guy, what was his name...grey hair, controlled magnetism...oh, right on the tip of my tongue...;)

Originally posted by Tom 2TUM Toner

you're assuming i meant the AOA/Exiles Blink when i said Blink. I was actually thinking more towards the 616 Clarice, who died way back when against the Phalanx. I was thinking more towards a ret-con that she didn't die but ported away somewhere else (not on Earth, maybe some other planet, some other universe...hell even some other dimension) and has finally made her way back home. CC could find a wya to explain it ;)

I'd heard some rumors that this was in fact what might've happened...the Clarice from our time seemed a bit younger than the one in AOA, so maybe she "blinked" out of our time and rematerialized when the new timeline presented itself. Which opens the door for her return. Or something, i don't know. Retcons within retcons...;)

[Arachne]

That idea rocks- I would love to see Kitty and Rachel together again. And it would finally give Marvel a female book in the 616 universe that women could actually read (I would be surprised to hear if anyone with two X chromosomes actually picked up that Emma Frost or the Phoenix mini series). And Dani and Sam leading a team again would be great.


Originally posted by Jordan T. Maxwell
I dig the line up...but i'd replace Kitty with Dani. And give Kitty and Rachel their own &quot;Birds of Prey&quot; style book, where they're college students AND reluctant superheroes. And...hmm, i'd bring on Jubilee (both because the team could use more estrogen and so she can FINALLY hook up with Iceman) and Wolverine as a sort of &quot;mentor&quot; Prof. X type character. As for the creative team...hmm, i say bump Claremont up to editor of the books (who knows this stuff better than him) and bring on Brian K. Vaughn to script. And Jim Lee's had his go...let him take on those icons at the distinguished competition and give us someone a bit newer to the franchise. I'll throw out as a name...Mike Deodato Jr. (whose artwork i adore) or Ethan Van Sciver. As for my idea of a spin off with Rachel and Kitty (title TBA, lol)...well, give me scripting duties and give me Richard Case (formerly of Hunter: The Age of Magic) to draw, or EVS (can you tell i want to see more Van Sciver work? lol). And then, my friends, we will be on the verge of a perfect. world. :D If the team is going to be all new all different, with a younger cast, I can think of one more thing to shake up the statue quo.

A woman writer.

Yep, plain and simple. I think it's past time to have a woman writer on a main book. Marvel seems to have a bizarre idea that a romance comic is the only way to draw in those female manga fans. Nonsence. The biggest shojo hits are stories like Magic Knight Rayearth, Basara, even X/1999 (which has a guy as the star). These stories have girls in strong, kick butt roles. Marvel doesn't need titles like Trouble to get women readers, but put a woman on X-Men and the talk could get more women to pick up the book- I mean, I can't think of any woman writers on Spider-man, Avengers, Superman, Batman, etc. I mean how long has Birds of Prey been around and they JUST got their first woman writer.

[sinestro]

um but im sorry but this article dosent sound like a roast but more of a fan boy rant. dude get your definitions straight this dooent make fun of the x-men it just criticises. if you dont like the way the books are just dont buy them.

[Anthony Lucynski]

Ummm. He DOES. He admitted that he loves X-Treme X-Men.

X-Fans are a weird bunch when it comes to fun. If you cant laugh at yourself, (or the industry you're part of) then life must be very, very bad.

Anthony L

[bmack]

Originally posted by Anthony Lucynski
X-Fans are a weird bunch when it comes to fun. If you cant laugh at yourself, (or the industry you're part of) then life must be very, very bad.

Not that I'm defending bashing anyone, but figured I'd chime in with my :2c:

I think X-Fans are just a very proud bunch. Many current fans have been with these books for a very long time and because of this feel a need to defend the characters they love... or chastise the new characters they hate ;)

Take a look at many of the Marvel Universe books... FF, Avengers, Iron Man, Hulk, Spiderman, Captain America, Thor.... all of these books have been cancelled, restarted, renumbered, shuffled around, turned upside down and inside out, etc, etc over the course of time. With the exception of the time UXM went into reprints back in the day, the X-Men have been around and going strong, selling issues consistently, crossing media boundaries, creating new fans and keeping many coming back for more. Good or bad, these characters and their universe have always held a special place in our hearts and we will always want to see the best for them. Like anything else, there can be a tendency to be a bit defensive, but everybody gets defensive about different things in their lives, right? But... in the end... we are X-Fans (like the original name of this site implied) so here is to another great 40 years :cheers:

~ The Mack

[Anthony Lucynski]

Yeah, i'm with ya on that one. I just think sometimes, we need to relax as a community and not take things so personally.

Anthony l

[SQUIRREL-GIRL]

love the team of x-men you came up with...
all u need is a rookie/newbie character and its perfect!

[sinestro]

listen im not an angry or disgruntled x-fan or any of that crap. i was stating that the article was just simply not funny. i didnt get the humor in it. sorry. ive read funny articles on this site but this just didnt seem like one of them. ive read the thing three times to find some sort of trace of humor but i couldnt find it. maybe im missing something.

[Anthony Lucynski]

listen im not an angry or disgruntled x-fan or any of that crap.

Well obviously you are or you wouldnt be responding the way you are. Touch a nerve? Seriously. Calm down.

Anthony L

[Tom 2TUM Toner]

Originally posted by SQUIRREL-GIRL
love the team of x-men you came up with...
all u need is a rookie/newbie character and its perfect!

i strayed away from a newbie, because everyone always moans and complains when a noob is brought in instead of the creator advancing an old character. it was the reason i brought back Blink. She has a noob/rook feel to her, but isn't new at all.

Originally posted by sinestro
listen im not an angry or disgruntled x-fan or any of that crap. i was stating that the article was just simply not funny. i didnt get the humor in it. sorry. ive read funny articles on this site but this just didnt seem like one of them. ive read the thing three times to find some sort of trace of humor but i couldnt find it. maybe im missing something.

well, can't please them all. humor is subjective, not everyone's gonna find the same thing funny. take for example Anthony. He loves Rob L...i find it funny that he loves Rob L. You may not think it's funny (darn right sick, sure, but not funny) but i'm still laughing at Anth for being a RobL fan. Not everyone finds the same things funny.

Sorry this article didn't touch your funny bone, but on the other side i'm glad the articles still being talked about even thought the anniversary is over =D

[Anthony Lucynski]

That's because you're a glory hog.

You pig. ;)

Anthony L

[Tom 2TUM Toner]

you're just jealous :p

[Magic Rabbit]

But... but... I like Scott Lodbell. :p



Magic Rabbit

“Oooh you’re a scary bunny!” - Sam

[Tom 2TUM Toner]

i like Lobdell too. he got me into X-men. he also wrote a lot of AOA stories, which IMHO are some of the best stories ever. he doesn't get enough credit.

ya know, looking backover this article i noticed a lot of things actally did happen.


Said there's too many X-Books and need ot crop it down. X-Treme's being cancelled.

Said X-Treme will be a longstanding title as long as CC and Sal work together. X-Treme's on it's way to being cancelled, and who's on the team? CC and Kordey.

Said the way the penciling on New X-Men was going, Sal would be on the title. He is.

Said CC would be brought back to the X-Men. He is.

Said an old school penciler should be brought back to aide CC. Alan Davis is brought back. Although I went with Jim Lee, Alan Davis is just as good as an old school penciler.

etc.

[dreamer]

yeah well, what about the cast in x-men? you called for a cast revamp with many younger figures and getting rid of the old-schoolars AND wolvie. do you think that we'll see any something similar to this come the reload?

:chicken: