PDA

View Full Version : TOP 10 DC CROSSOVERS OF ALL TIME


Joel Phillips
Feb 14, 2005, 02:41 pm
<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dccrossovers/top10dccrossovers.jpg" align=left alt="The Top 10 DC Crossovers of All Time">By: Raul Grau, Jon Hancock, Matt Lazorwitz, Jordan T. Maxwell, Tom Toner


Heroes are fine individually, and even better in a team setting, but if you want to see a menace so fierce that it takes over a dozen colorfully dressed crimefighters to properly face it, then you are going to need a crossover.

Crossovers began as simple team-ups- hero A visits hero B's book for an issue, and then hero B returns the favor. In 1964, DC changed the rules with Zatanna's Search, the first such storyline to span more than a pair of titles, bringing a whole generation of characters into one adventure. The advent of the maxi-series brought with it a new approach- the crossover series, a title created for the sole purpose of being at the center of something larger, something universe spanning, something infinite.

In the over forty years that have passed since Zatanna began her Search, DC has released a steady diet of events for readers to consume, so it was up to the staff of ComiX-Fan to comb through the many crossovers, and bring you a list of the very best.


<center><hr width=75%></center>


#10 JLA/JSA: Virtue and Vice

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dccrossovers/10.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dccrossovers/10t.jpg" align=left alt="JLA/JSA: Virtue and Vice"></a>As chronicled in: JLA/JSA: Secret Files and Origins, JLA/JSA: Virtue and Vice
Main characters: Despero, Shazam, Johnny Sorrow, Lex Luthor, Batman, Mister Terrific II, Power Girl, Dr. Fate IV, Plastic Man, Captain Marvel, Kyle Rayner (Green Lantern)

The Justice League of America and Justice Society of America are teams that inspire and comfort the populace of the Earth. When both teams reformed, the traditional meeting between the two was also revived, this time at Thanksgiving. However, when the teams go to investigate an attack on President Luthor, strange things appear to happen to seven of them. Manipulated by two monsters, bent on destruction and domination, the two teams find themselves fighting their own members as the seven affected members turn rogue. While this crossover is not an epic or a universe changing one, it does serve an important job. Virtue and Vice reestablished the roles of the two teams, the JLA were the Earth's protectors, while the JSA were America's finest, and much more of a family. Also within the story are plenty of foreshadowing and hinting, hallmarks of Geoff Johns' writing. Relationships between Mister Terrific and Batman, Power Girl and Superman, Green Lantern and Sentinel are all explored. Black Canary has to confront the love triangle she has found herself in following Green Arrow's resurrection. This crossover harks back to the Silver Age, with two villains bringing together the two premiere super teams and then a giant fight ensues. Its place on this list is due to its massive cast receiving fair and equal treatment, and for the innocent entertainment value of old fashioned super heroics.


<center><hr width=75%></center>


<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=31871" target="_blank">#9 A Lonely Place of Dying</a>

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dccrossovers/9.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dccrossovers/9t.jpg" align=left alt="A Lonely Place of Dying"></a>As Chronicled In: Batman and The New Titans of 1989
Main characters: Batman, Robin III, Nightwing, Alfred, Two Face

I still remember the day I had heard that Robin was killed in A Death in the Family. He was brutally murdered, yet it wasn't by the writers, but by the readers. Everyone loved Dick Grayson, but they couldn't stand the young Jason Todd. Like Dick, Jason was an orphan who was adopted by Bruce. By every meaning of the word, Jason was a clone of Dick. The editors were actually astonished that "hate" would be the words the described the feelings of readers over the wannabe Dick, and many were glad that he was killed. In the months that followed, Batman started to slowly deteriorate. Tim Drake was introduced in this crossover to take on the roll as the next Robin, but, unlike Jason, Tim was actually a different person from Dick. For starters, he wasn't an orphan. He wasn't much of a fighter, but an actual detective. In fact, he single-handedly managed to figure out the identities of Batman and Nightwing, as well as the role that Alfred fit into it all. In one of the most memorable lines in the crossover, Tim kept screaming, "Batman NEEDS Robin." Tim was able to reunite Bruce and Dick, but not as Batman and Robin. Dick would not come back as the old Robin, as he was no longer that same thirteen-year-old kid. The reunited dynamic duo were taken down by Two Face before Tim Drake came to the rescue, dressed in Dick's old Robin guise. After much debate, Tim was invited to become the new Robin. So once again, we get the dynamic duo of Batman and Robin, without having to sacrifice the character of Nightwing. And, thankfully for the readers, this Robin isn't a clone of the original, but a wholly new person.


<center><hr width=75%></center>


#8 No Man’s Land

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dccrossovers/8.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dccrossovers/8t.jpg" align=left alt="No Man’s Land"></a>As Chronicled In: Bat titles of 1999
Main characters: Batman, James Gordon, Oracle, Huntress, Batgirl III, Two-Face, Robin III, Nightwing, Azrael, Lex Luthor, Joker, Harley Quinn, Penguin, Bane, Sarah Essen-Gordon, Rene Montoya, Harvey Bullock, Billy Pettit

After years of disasters, the US government decided that Gotham City was a loss. Giving the citizens time to escape the city, all the tunnels and bridges were blown, sealing off the city and making it a No Man’s Land. This was the set up for the yearlong crossover that turned the entire Batman family of titles, and all the characters therein, on their heads. With all the madmen of Arkham let loose in the city, Gotham devolved into a feudal society, where food and batteries were more valuable than jewels, and the inmates were literally running the asylum, with each lunatic controlling pieces of the city. And after three months, Batman returned to Gotham, and began slowly taking the city back. As the story progressed, all of Batman’s allies came to aid him, and with the help of many members of the GCPD who had stayed behind, Batman was able to reclaim the city. But as the story drew to a close, two great threats, a takeover of the city by Lex Luthor and a plan by the Joker, quickly came to a head, and one of Batman’s friends did not live to see a new Gotham. The importance of No Man’s Land lies in its scope. A well organized story, it ran through every one of the Batman family of comics, many for the entirety of 1999. Greg Rucka, one of DC’s biggest writers now, did his first DC work during NML, and it introduced the new Batgirl and Harley Quinn into the mainstream DCU. This was the last story of Batman before the year 2000, and it was quite a way to end the old century, and ring in the new.


<center><hr width=75%></center>


<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=31973" target="_blank">#7 Contagion</a>

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dccrossovers/7.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dccrossovers/7t.jpg" align=left alt="Contagion"></a>As Chronicled In: Bat titles of 1996
Main characters: Batman, Azrael, Robin III, Nightwing, Huntress, Alfred Pennyworth, James Gordon, Catwoman, Poison Ivy

Gotham: City of the Dead? This was a question posed when the Clench Virus, a deadly strain of the Ebola Virus that caused the body to seize up, came to Gotham. The Order of St. Dumas sent an infected man to Gotham to test the efficacy of their new biological weapon, a threat that hit home with readers, as it was a real world fear, not something held exclusively in the pages of comics. In a race against time, Batman and his allies, as well as some of his enemies, try to find three people who may hold the cure for the disease. The drama of the crossover intensifies, with Batman and Jim Gordon caught in a flaming skyscraper, just as Robin comes down with the Clench. In the end, the plague is cured, but Gotham is left in a precarious position, one that will lead to problems for the city and its heroes. As part of a larger cultural scheme, this was the time of films like Outbreak, when the idea of plagues and biological weapons were in vogue. An exciting story that spans the globe, Contagion was the first major Bat-crossover after the Knight-trilogy. It was the first time that the Gotham Knights functioned as a unit from the beginning, with Batman working alongside the group of heroes who would be his support structure to this day. This was also the first domino to fall that would lead into Gotham becoming a No Man’s Land. This connects two of the best crossovers to come out of, not just the Bat offices, but the entire DCU.


<center><hr width=75%></center>


#6 Invasion!

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dccrossovers/6.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dccrossovers/6t.jpg" align=left alt="Invasion!"></a>As Chronicled In: Invasion! and DCU titles of 1988
Main characters: Blasters, L.E.G.I.O.N., Omega Men, Adam Strange, Dominators, Khunds, Daxamites

Alien invasions are old hat in comics. They have been something of a standard since the Silver Age. But Invasion! was something different. The invasion was an organized effort by numerous alien races not to conquer Earth, but to extinguish the human race, for fear of the metagene, the source of super powers, which could make humanity the deadliest race in the galaxy. The invasion stretched across all of Earth, and even when the heroes of Earth forced the aliens away, the Metagene Bomb that was detonated left many weakened. Only a last ditch effort by the cosmic heroes of the DCU was able to find a cure for the bomb, and restore the metahumans of Earth. Two major events came out of the invasion. With the detonation and curing of the Gene Bomb, a whole new group of super-powered heroes and villains were created, and many of the established ones were altered in their capacities. Fire, Maxwell Lord, and Animal Man all suffered alterations to their abilities, and an incarnation of the Doom Patrol was nearly entirely killed, paving the way for Grant Morrison's legendary run. But more than this, Invasion! was the first real exploration of Post-Crisis DCU cosmology. The alien races of the galaxy were shown together, and their various personalities were established. And humanity proved its strength among them, making Earth a force to be reckoned with.


<center><hr width=75%></center>


<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=32336" target="_blank">#5 Year One</a>

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dccrossovers/5.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dccrossovers/5t.jpg" align=left alt="Year One"></a>As Chronicled In: DCU Annuals of 1995
Main Characters: Superman, Batman, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Terra II, Ray II

They were legends from the beginning. That was the claim made with Year One, and, for once, marketing hyperbole possessed a ring of truth. Much like their predecessor, Batman: Year One, these annuals displayed a side of established superheroes that is rarely allowed to show- inexperience. By focusing on their formative years as crimefighters, these stories let readers relate to characters that had been set in their heroic ways for longer than many of their fans had been alive. Simultaneously, Year One served as a handy means to introduce/explain the continuity alterations enacted by Zero Hour, in one coherent package. However, most astonishing was its sheer variety. What other crossover has a young Aquaman flirting with an equally young Wonder Woman, and then witnessing the birth of his son? Where else can you see Superman astounded by his own abilities in one book and then berated for being too much of an icon in another? With thirty-one stand-alone stories in total, there is certainly something here for every reader, from Christopher Priest penned pathos to Marv Wolfman written wackiness... and even a little Chris Claremont. Whether their roots include horror, war, science fiction, or comedy, these heroes and villains have one commonality... they really were legends, and DC certainly knows Legends.


<center><hr width=75%></center>


<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=31934" target="_blank">#4 Legends</a>

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dccrossovers/4.jpg"target="_blank"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dccrossovers/4t.jpg" align=left alt="Legends"></a>As Chronicled In: DCU titles of 1986-7
Main Characters: Darkseid, Captain Marvel, Glorious Godfrey, Batman, Flash III, Superman, Guy Gardner, Blue Beetle II, Firestorm, Cosmic Boy, Brimstone, Captain Boomerang

As the writers and editors were finishing up Crisis On Infinite Earths, they realized the need for another event, this time to establish several changes within the DCU. Legends was born out of that need. It reestablished what made the DCU great, and showcased that there were still legends within the Universe. We see Darkseid trying to take over the world... again... now by removing humanity's faith in it's superheroes. Using his agent, Glorious Godfrey, to incite riots (showing an interesting precursor to our current culture of fear), Darkseid almost succeeds in causing the heroes to fall. Legends' real accomplishment was the work it did to portray heroes in a new light. Covering virtually every sphere of the DCU, the series also established the place of Captain Marvel following his displacement from Earth-S, showed DC's faith in Wally West becoming the new Flash, and gave birth to John Ostrander's legendary Suicide Squad. As a story, it is a high class exposition on how the heroes of DC rely on the good will of the public to succeed. As an event, it was instrumental in energizing a faltering universe, and kick-starting a whole heap of characters following Crisis, making everyone unsure what was going to be next. Oh, Legends also gave the world the Justice League International, and that is something we should all be thankful for.


<center><hr width=75%></center>


#3 KnightFall

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dccrossovers/3.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dccrossovers/3t.jpg" align=left alt="KnightFall"></a>As Chronicled In: Bat titles of 1993
Main characters: Batman, Azrael (Batman II), Robin III, Alfred Pennyworth, James Gordon, Bane, Bird, Trogg, Zombie, Joker, Scarecrow, Two-Face, Zsasz, Ventriloquist, Mad Hatter, Firefly, Riddler, Killer Croc, Poison Ivy

Batman is an unstoppable force for justice, driven, maybe even obsessed, right? But what happens when the man just can’t take what’s dished out anymore? This is one of the key questions in Knightfall. An already exhausted Batman is pushed to the edge and beyond when a new villain, Bane, comes to Gotham with the sole purpose of besting him. Breaking open Arkham Asylum, Bane lets all the madmen loose on the streets. Batman runs himself ragged recapturing them all, before Bane, who has deduced his identity, meets him at Wayne Manor, and breaks his back. Unable to continue, Batman passes the cape and cowl to Jean-Paul Valley (Azrael), his new protégé, who creates new Bat-armor and defeats Bane in combat. More than just about the degradation of Bruce Wayne, this story poses a very important question: Is the person under the mask important to being Batman? Azrael might have been able to fight, but could he be Batman? Beyond all this, sometimes a story is simply great because you get to see a character go through his paces. Batman might have been exhausted, but still he fought many of his greatest foes. And truly, is heroism in the face of your own limits not the greatest kind?


<center><hr width=75%></center>


#2 Identity Crisis

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dccrossovers/2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dccrossovers/2t.jpg" align=left alt="Identity Crisis"></a>As chronicled in: Identity Crisis and DCU titles of 2004-5
Main characters: Sue Dibny, Elongated Man, Green Arrow, Batman, Robin III, Jack Drake, Flash III, Atom, Jean Loring, Dr. Light, Captain Boomerang, Deathstroke, Calculator

Most big event stories feature some great menace, threatening the world or the universe... an evil so huge that a multitude of heroes are called to stand against it. This was different. This was a single tragic death, a murder mystery with emotional repercussions for every hero and villain in the DC universe. Sue Dibny, wife of the Elongated Man, is attacked and viciously murdered by an unknown assailant while preparing for their anniversary. The superheroes mobilize to find the killer, not just out of their respect for Ralph and Sue, but because it could have been any of their loved ones. The consequences of this act aren't limited to grief but secrets as well, as actions long buried begin to surface. For years, heroes had used various means to erase the memories of enemies who discovered their secret identities... but after Dr. Light had raped Sue Dibny, years before her brutal murder, a handful of JLA members decided that merely erasing his memories wasn't enough. So instead they rewired his brain, lobotomizing him and crossing from their world of moral absolutes into a realm of ethical ambiguity. And worse, Dr. Light wasn't the only one to receive this "treatment." But as the heroes hunt, and the revelations continue, the killer remains at large. More loved ones are threatened, attacked, or killed, and by the time the mystery is solved, no one... hero or villain... is left untouched. Husbands, sons, and friends are left in mourning. The reputations of heroes are left tainted. A crisis not of cosmic proportions, but of emotional turmoil and secrets long buried. It was a new kind of story for comic books, and a different approach to these classic icons that appealed to fans both old and new.


<center><hr width=75%></center>


#1 Crisis on Infinite Earths</a>

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dccrossovers/1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dccrossovers/1t.jpg" align=left alt="Crisis on Infinite Earths"></a>As chronicled in: Crisis on Infinite Earths and all DCU titles of 1985-6
Main characters: Monitor, Anti-Monitor, Harbinger, Pariah, Alexander Luthor, Psycho Pirate, Flash II, Superman, Superman, Supergirl, Dr. Light IV, Firestorm, Brainiac, Spectre, every other DC character ever created... ever!

"In the beginning..." is a hell of a way to start an epic. And that's exactly what Crisis was, an epic of biblical proportions. It was literally the end of the world. Thousands of worlds, in fact. You see, by the mid-80s, DC had a number of parallel worlds. Earth 1 contained our modern day heroes, while Earth 2 was brought into being to house DC's Golden Age superheroes, so that those stories could exist alongside their Silver Age counterparts. Over time, more and more versions of Earth came into being... featuring evil versions of superheroes or housing superheroes that DC had purchased from other companies, such as Fawcett and Charlton. It was a clever way of keeping things separate but still able to have them interact when needed. However, after decades of these multiple worlds and timelines, continuity had started to get a little confusing (and in certain places, for other reasons, downright embarrassing). So Marv Wolfman and George Perez, the all star creative team on New Teen Titans, proposed an idea. A way not only to celebrate the first fifty years of DC Comics, but to provide a fresh start for the next fifty as well.

The premise was this: there weren't supposed to be infinite universes. Something had happened that fractured time and space, creating not only a series of weakened positive universes, but also a single strong negative universe. And as a Monitor was born to the positive, so too was an Anti-Monitor born to the negative. He desired nothing more than to destroy each and every positive matter universe in order to expand his power, and become the omnipotent ruler of the anti-matter universe. Thousands of worlds died, witnessed by the cursed and undying Pariah. Meanwhile, the Monitor gathered his forces and proceeded with his endgame... allowing himself to be killed to produce a limbo where the surviving worlds could reside until the crisis had passed. Of the infinitude of the multiverse, only five worlds were saved, overlapping and causing strange distortions in time and reality. The villains of the world united to take advantage, but soon realized that they had more to lose if the world ended. So they allied themselves with the heroes to stop the Anti-Monitor and help fuse the worlds together into one strengthened universe. Sacrifices were made to stop the Anti-Monitor's destructive plans. Heroes like Barry Allen (the Flash) and Kara Zor-El (Supergirl) gave their lives unselfishly (though it's interesting to note that Barry's death was revealed to actually be the cause of his own origin. And Supergirl has since been reintroduced into continuity. Twice.)... and their example helped forge new heroes to save the day. With each battle, the heroes took losses, but the Anti-Monitor was weakened. Fittingly, the final blow was delivered by the first and greatest hero of any world, the Superman of Earth 2... who had no place in the new common history of the single universe. The world... the universe... was saved. Past, present and future. Worlds died, worlds lived, and the universe was never the same. Neither were comic books.

Like the birth of Jesus on the Gregorian calendar, Crisis became the dividing line of DC history. There was pre-Crisis and post-Crisis. No other event in comic book history can claim such a deed (though many have tried). It also created the very concept of the big event crossover... for better or worse. Never before had a company produced a storytelling event so grand that it encompassed its entire universe, drawing in every character from throughout its history. Never since has a company done so with such lasting and historic effects. Nearly a half a century after its creation, the torch was passed and a new generation of readers inherited the rich and renewed mythology of DC Comics.


<center><hr width=75%></center>


If you would like to learn more about the crossovers featured here, the titles have been linked to their respective listings in our very own <a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=253" target="_blank">Resource</a> section, where available.

Thank you for following along as we toured the best crossovers found amongst the long history of DC Comics. There are many more to explore, and surely one is unfolding right now on the shelves of your local comic shop. Be sure to continue visiting ComiX-Fan all month long for more <a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=32203" target="_blank">anniversary fun</a>.


<center><hr width=75%></center>


Contagion, Invasion!, KnightFall, No Man's Land: Matt Lazorwitz
JLA/JSA: Virtue & Vice, Legends: Jon Hancock
Crisis on Infinite Earths, Identity Crisis: Jordan T. Maxwell
Year One: Raul Grau
A Lonely Place of Dying: Tom Toner
Contributors: Zeb Aslam, Mitch Brown, James Groves, Al Harahap, Dylan McKay
Editor: Raul Grau
Columns Editor: Joel Phillips
Editor in Chief: Al Harahap
Co-Publisher: Brian Wilkinson
Publisher: Eric J. Moreels


<center>All characters, titles, and likenesses thereof ™ © DC Comics (http://www.dccomics.com) or its licensors,
and are used without permission, not for profit. All other content © original author and ComiX-Fan (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan).</center>
<br>
<br>
<br>

bugalugs1
Feb 14, 2005, 03:49 pm
I'd have added Armageddon 2001, if only for the refixed ending and the repurcussions that it had ever since instead of one of the Bat-crossovers which I saw more as a intra-group story rather than a proper Crossover.
But definitely got my top 3 there and nice to see V&V being included

nose_gaudi_rj
Feb 14, 2005, 04:41 pm
I've loved every other list is this series so far (even the rape obsessed Greatest Moments run-down, which I anticipate putting Sue Dibney at #1 and filling the rest of the top ten from Mark Millar's work), but this one seems terribly wrong-headed.

Does it really say anything about crossovers to fill half the list with the times that the Batman titles have interacted with...the other Batman titles?

I mean, sure they're technically crossovers but they don't feel like it. There's no heightened sense of the infinite and of a jaw-droppingly wide universe in seeing Batman interact much as usual with his friends and neighbors, even on occasions where they've given it a name and a masthead logo.

The top spot was inevitable I suppose. Though it does highlight that confusion between 'great' as in 'important' and as in 'any good'. Crisis is inescapably significant, and achieves some very clever things, but it's horribly plotted. Anti-Monitor's defeated! He's back! Anti-Monitor's defeated! He's back! Anti-Monitor's defeated! He's back!

It's reputation as being any good comes from the Perez art...and the irony there is that it makes us go "Wow" through conveying the impossible scope and enormity of a Multiverse that the actual purpose of the series was to reduce in scope and enormity.

Identity Crisis at number two recalls all those 'Greatest Songs of the Millenium' public polls in 1999 through which we learned that the public's greatest songs of the Millenium were suspiciously similar to the greatest songs of the few months previous. Give it five years time and I bet of those who liked Identity Crisis (I'm one!) half of us will look back on it with embarassment and half as an absurd guilty pleasure.

The omission of DC One Million is a bit odd too. With an epic scale in narrative and publishing terms, it amazes by somehow managing to hold itself togther in both. It's full of it's own clever ideas but most importantly manages to be an affirmation of the main virtue of the DCU; A sense of wonder, that feeling of Look!UpInTheSky-ness which, by juggling the readers' mixed feelings of familiarity with the icons in play and alienation from its remote future, this crossover sparks, fans, then pours a can of petrol over for good measure.

Even if it was only for the Starman issue this should be in the top ten.

Itsjake
Feb 14, 2005, 04:42 pm
It's hard to imagine that this list would not include either of two originals: Flash No. 123 ("Flash of Two Worlds" - Sep 1962) or Justice League of America Nos. 21-22 ("Crisis on Earth-1!" and "Crisis on Earth-2!" - Aug-Sep 1963). These were truly groundbreaking efforts that changed how we looked at comics, and comics history, forever. Nothing that came afterwards, including the fantastic Crisis on Infinite Earths, would have been possible had it not been for these historic books.

bugalugs1
Feb 14, 2005, 05:09 pm
It's hard to imagine that this list would not include either of two originals: Flash No. 123 ("Flash of Two Worlds" - Sep 1962) or Justice League of America Nos. 21-22 ("Crisis on Earth-1!" and "Crisis on Earth-2!" - Aug-Sep 1963). These were truly groundbreaking efforts that changed how we looked at comics, and comics history, forever. Nothing that came afterwards, including the fantastic Crisis on Infinite Earths, would have been possible had it not been for these historic books.

I guess that while these crossed over characetsr they weren't "crossovers" per se
I would hope both of these appear in the DC moments list instead

Phasmal
Feb 14, 2005, 06:15 pm
Sure, Crisis On Infinite Earths is the only crossover to make a pre-and post- dividing line, but that doesn't mean it's the best. That was its intention from the start. It's just like saying that no Avengers battle rocked the team to its core like Disassembled did. Of course they didn't, none of them were orchestrated to revamp the series!

I also agree with those that think Identity Crisis's popularity will wane in a few years' time. Yes, it was a human and emotional story, but it's not "a new kind of story for comic books." It's just DC trying to bring relatability to characters like Marvel has been doing since its inception.

Tan K.
Feb 14, 2005, 10:23 pm
This was probably one of my favorite lists that ComiX-Fan has put out (other than the X-Mens and Avengers ones that I participated in). Not because of the content necessarily, but because it shows comics at their best. X-overs bring a little reality, fantasy, interpersonal interactions, etc. like no other type of storytelling device. Nice list topic.

raul grau
Feb 15, 2005, 04:48 am
Does it really say anything about crossovers to fill half the list with the times that the Batman titles have interacted with...the other Batman titles?

There are only 3 Bat-heavy crossovers on this list (4, if you count Lonely, which was an x-over with New Titans), but they are still crossovers, and were therefore up for contention. As long as each book maintains its own identity, then inaction between them should be a special thing. Plus, if we did a Marvel crossover list, and excluded all the X-heavy ones, what do you think would happen? ;)

The top spot was inevitable I suppose. Though it does highlight that confusion between 'great' as in 'important' and as in 'any good'. Crisis is inescapably significant, and achieves some very clever things, but it's horribly plotted. Anti-Monitor's defeated! He's back! Anti-Monitor's defeated! He's back! Anti-Monitor's defeated! He's back!

He is a cosmic-level comic book villain, cosmic-level comic book villains are notoriously hard to kill.

Identity Crisis at number two recalls all those 'Greatest Songs of the Millenium' public polls in 1999 through which we learned that the public's greatest songs of the Millenium were suspiciously similar to the greatest songs of the few months previous. Give it five years time and I bet of those who liked Identity Crisis (I'm one!) half of us will look back on it with embarassment and half as an absurd guilty pleasure.

In 1985, I thought Crisis was an amazing story, and I still think so now. I would personally put Identity Crisis as my favorite DC crossover, so I may be biased, but I highly doubt anyone will see it as a guilty pleasure in 5 years... at least, no more so than these other comics we read. ;)

The omission of DC One Million is a bit odd too. With an epic scale in narrative and publishing terms, it amazes by somehow managing to hold itself togther in both. It's full of it's own clever ideas but most importantly manages to be an affirmation of the main virtue of the DCU; A sense of wonder, that feeling of Look!UpInTheSky-ness which, by juggling the readers' mixed feelings of familiarity with the icons in play and alienation from its remote future, this crossover sparks, fans, then pours a can of petrol over for good measure. Even if it was only for the Starman issue this should be in the top ten.

I hated DC One Million, but that is just my opinion. It simply did not earn the votes to make it to the top ten. And, while I did also really enjoy that Starman issue, a crossover should be judged on its complete merits, including all tie-ins and such.

It's hard to imagine that this list would not include either of two originals: Flash No. 123 ("Flash of Two Worlds" - Sep 1962) or Justice League of America Nos. 21-22 ("Crisis on Earth-1!" and "Crisis on Earth-2!" - Aug-Sep 1963).

bugalugs is right, neither of those stories (groundbreaking though they are) were eligible in the voting, because they are not 'crossovers' in the strictest sense.

I would hope both of these appear in the DC moments list instead

Justice League of America #21 already has, it was #42 on our Moments list. I think the moment in history is well honored on that list (and I'm not just saying that because I happen to be the one who wrote that particular entry). :)

Yes, it was a human and emotional story, but it's not "a new kind of story for comic books." It's just DC trying to bring relatability to characters like Marvel has been doing since its inception.

This misconception always bothers me. What is it about DC that makes its characters less relatable than Marvel's? Have you been reading our (apparently) rape obsessed Moments list? Or our Character list? Yes, when you talk about someone like Superman, it is hard feel a connection to him in most stories, but DC has many more characters than the Big 7. Nearly everything done in Identity Crisis had been done before in DC history, but it was a new kind of story, in that is was a very subdued look at superheroes, which is unusual for a crossover (from any company).

- Raul

nose_gaudi_rj
Feb 15, 2005, 10:34 am
There are only 3 Bat-heavy crossovers on this list (4, if you count Lonely, which was an x-over with New Titans), but they are still crossovers, and were therefore up for contention. As long as each book maintains its own identity, then inaction between them should be a special thing. Plus, if we did a Marvel crossover list, and excluded all the X-heavy ones, what do you think would happen? ;)

You'd get a list of slightly better stories. :)

Seriously though...things were not always as they are now in the X-books, where Emma Frost must appear in every issue of every title, regardless of whether or not the writer has the faintest ability to write her dialogue. Once a meeting between the New Mutants, X-Factor and the X-Men did give that special tingly 'crossover' feeling as they were characters who didn't routinely team up every month anyway. There's clearly some distance between this and a crossover between the Batman and Robin of one Bat-title and the Batman and Robin of another Bat-title.

Besides, I never said they shouldn't be contention. I just said that it somewhat spoils the exciting claims for crossovers made in your intro when a list of them is dominated by stories that really just arise from an editorial office keeping the Bat titles in a state of perpetual interaction.


[Anti-Monitor] is a cosmic-level comic book villain, cosmic-level comic book villains are notoriously hard to kill.

Which isn't the problem. The problem's the horrible stop/start structure in which he's defeated every time Wolfman needs to buy himself some time for a bit more exposition.

Think of the end of a horror film where the slasher/monster/whetver is dead and we're all safe and...Oh no, he isn't! Argh! We're fine with that cliche. It works. But that's not quite what Crisis does.

There it's the equivalent of the slasher/monster/whatever lying dead on the carpet, the surviving zesty teens all going to make a cup of tea, talk about their experiences and clean up around the place, maybe do some hoovering, and then, about half an hour later... Argh! The Slasher/Monster/Whatever is back. Repeat this pattern three times.

Great art. Did more good than harm in the long run. Storytelling shot to hell.



In 1985, I thought Crisis was an amazing story, and I still think so now. I would personally put Identity Crisis as my favorite DC crossover, so I may be biased, but I highly doubt anyone will see it as a guilty pleasure in 5 years... at least, no more so than these other comics we read. ;)


Well, perhaps we'll have this conversation again during the seventy-fifth anniversary then. :) Myself, I think how most currently look back on the most laughable excesses of 80s/early-90's 'grim n' gritty' is more or less how this latest attempt at 'maturing' superheroes will come to be seen. It's less 'The Killing Joke' and more 'The Punisher Versus Kiddie Porn'.


I hated DC One Million, but that is just my opinion. It simply did not earn the votes to make it to the top ten.


Ah well. These lists often really nail their topic, but it looks like this time internal Comix-Fan democracy has produced one that's unlikely to have many people saying, "Yep! Them's the Classics."

Perhaps that thing you sometimes do where you poll the readers on the staffers' individual lists might have had more luck finding one that felt representative, definitive and less skewed.

Seth Kim
Feb 15, 2005, 10:46 am
Lot of Batman crossovers. I'm half-surprised Zero Hour didn't make the list, but I still think it was a great list overall. Great work, guys.

Phasmal
Feb 15, 2005, 03:42 pm
This misconception always bothers me. What is it about DC that makes its characters less relatable than Marvel's? Have you been reading our (apparently) rape obsessed Moments list? Or our Character list? Yes, when you talk about someone like Superman, it is hard feel a connection to him in most stories, but DC has many more characters than the Big 7. Nearly everything done in Identity Crisis had been done before in DC history, but it was a new kind of story, in that is was a very subdued look at superheroes, which is unusual for a crossover (from any company).

- Raul

To me, what makes me dislike every major character in the mainstream DC Universe is their perfection. The only reason they killed Superman is to show that it was possible for him to die, even if he just comes right back. Why hasn't he organized the Justice League to hunt down and destroy every piece of Kryptonite left? Sounds like a solid plan to me. Wonder Woman is, power-wise, just like Superman, so I find it hard to believe that they would ever have any problems dispatching their opponents. And if you're about to tell me to look at Silver Surfer of Thor for powerful figures, I tell you to look at their arch-villains: one eats planets and gave him his power, while the other is a fellow god himself. Who is Superman's arch-rival? A guy. Some guy that's pretty smart and occaisionally wears hi-tech battle armor. Wow.

Then you have Batman, with the greatest super power of them all. That's right, Batman has a superpower. Unlimited money. How many Batarangs does he go through in a week? And hell, it's got to be a superpower that lets him have some factory in South America pumping out Batarangs by the crate without any of the employees noticing the paper trail that leads directly to Wayne Manor.

As for Identity Crisis being subdued, I never even read it, and I can still formulate a good arguement for that. Sue Dibny gets raped, then she's torched by a flamethrower, then Deathstrokebeats the crap out of everyone, then a bunch of people die, then the autopsy that lasts six issues ends and we all figure it out. If you want subdued looks at heroes, pick up the X-Men Vignettes TPB. I should state, however, that I intend to get the IC TPB whenver it comes out, just to really see for myself.

I was born on Marvel. I've been reading Marvel most of my life. When I want mainstream spandex, there's just no need for me to cross the pond. I don't hate DC, I'm just content to stick with the style and characters I've loved all my life.

Jordan T. Maxwell
Feb 15, 2005, 04:17 pm
I've loved every other list is this series so far (even the rape obsessed Greatest Moments run-down, which I anticipate putting Sue Dibney at #1 and filling the rest of the top ten from Mark Millar's work), but this one seems terribly wrong-headed.

because having two entries involving rape in two totally different contexts is really an "obsession." :p


The top spot was inevitable I suppose. Though it does highlight that confusion between 'great' as in 'important' and as in 'any good'. Crisis is inescapably significant, and achieves some very clever things, but it's horribly plotted. Anti-Monitor's defeated! He's back! Anti-Monitor's defeated! He's back! Anti-Monitor's defeated! He's back!

i haven't read a lot of the crossover issues, but the actual maxi series is pretty well done for the sheer scope of what it's trying to do. what, the greatest threat the multiverse is ever known should just be taken down easily and finally? No way. it's going to take some work. No, it isn't a Watchmen or a Dark Knight...but it's good solid storytelling that doesn't collapse under its own weight. that combined with its significance is what makes it the number one slot for me (and while the votes are usually kept secret, i'm pretty sure i had the swing vote on this one. ;) ).


Identity Crisis at number two recalls all those 'Greatest Songs of the Millenium' public polls in 1999 through which we learned that the public's greatest songs of the Millenium were suspiciously similar to the greatest songs of the few months previous. Give it five years time and I bet of those who liked Identity Crisis (I'm one!) half of us will look back on it with embarassment and half as an absurd guilty pleasure.

no, it really is just that damn good.

Sure, Crisis On Infinite Earths is the only crossover to make a pre-and post- dividing line, but that doesn't mean it's the best. That was its intention from the start. It's just like saying that no Avengers battle rocked the team to its core like Disassembled did. Of course they didn't, none of them were orchestrated to revamp the series!

the fact that it succeeded in doing something that no comic book company had intentionally done before i think is pretty damn impressive. hell, there've been plenty of stories that have intended to change things, shake up the status quo, etc...but so many of them fail and fall away. Post-Crisis DCU is still standing (despite the best efforts of Jeph Loeb. :p)


I also agree with those that think Identity Crisis's popularity will wane in a few years' time. Yes, it was a human and emotional story, but it's not "a new kind of story for comic books." It's just DC trying to bring relatability to characters like Marvel has been doing since its inception.

it is a new kind of story for the mainstream DCU, it has the potential for long lasting after effects (if DC plays it smartly) and it's a damn good story besides. i don't think its popularity will wane at all. give it ten years time, this won't just be a great story, it'll be a classic.

Ryan Day
Feb 15, 2005, 04:45 pm
To me, what makes me dislike every major character in the mainstream DC Universe is their perfection. The only reason they killed Superman is to show that it was possible for him to die, even if he just comes right back.

As opposed to the oh-so-vulnerable Wolverine? The dead-once-and-for-all Jean Grey?

Why hasn't he organized the Justice League to hunt down and destroy every piece of Kryptonite left? Sounds like a solid plan to me.

Track down every single piece of a planet that exploded and is scattered across the universe?

Wonder Woman is, power-wise, just like Superman, so I find it hard to believe that they would ever have any problems dispatching their opponents. And if you're about to tell me to look at Silver Surfer of Thor for powerful figures, I tell you to look at their arch-villains: one eats planets and gave him his power, while the other is a fellow god himself.

If we're talking gods, then Wonder Woman's got a host of villains based in the Greek pantheon. Superman's got aliens, gods, and various other super-powered beings up against him.

Then you have Batman, with the greatest super power of them all. That's right, Batman has a superpower. Unlimited money. How many Batarangs does he go through in a week?

As opposed to all of Peter Parker's web fluid, shooters and spider-tracers? Or Professor X, who must be the richest man on the planet in order to afford all the stuff at the school?

I was born on Marvel. I've been reading Marvel most of my life. When I want mainstream spandex, there's just no need for me to cross the pond. I don't hate DC, I'm just content to stick with the style and characters I've loved all my life.

So really, forget about Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman. What about Birds of Prey or Outsiders or Teen Titans? Green Lantern, Flash and Adam Strange? I don't read all of them, but to lump off an entire company seems silly, particularly when so many creators go back and forth. What's the difference between Greg Rucka's Wolverine and his Wonder Woman? Judd Winnick's Exiles and Green Arrow? Grant Morrison's X-Men and JLA? Gail Simone's Agent X and Birds of Prey?

Marvel publishes some good stuff. DC publishes some good stuff. I'd no more ignore a publisher than I would swear off movies produced by Universal.

Jordan T. Maxwell
Feb 15, 2005, 05:13 pm
To me, what makes me dislike every major character in the mainstream DC Universe is their perfection. The only reason they killed Superman is to show that it was possible for him to die, even if he just comes right back. Why hasn't he organized the Justice League to hunt down and destroy every piece of Kryptonite left? Sounds like a solid plan to me. Wonder Woman is, power-wise, just like Superman, so I find it hard to believe that they would ever have any problems dispatching their opponents. And if you're about to tell me to look at Silver Surfer of Thor for powerful figures, I tell you to look at their arch-villains: one eats planets and gave him his power, while the other is a fellow god himself. Who is Superman's arch-rival? A guy. Some guy that's pretty smart and occaisionally wears hi-tech battle armor. Wow.

Then you have Batman, with the greatest super power of them all. That's right, Batman has a superpower. Unlimited money. How many Batarangs does he go through in a week? And hell, it's got to be a superpower that lets him have some factory in South America pumping out Batarangs by the crate without any of the employees noticing the paper trail that leads directly to Wayne Manor.

As for Identity Crisis being subdued, I never even read it, and I can still formulate a good arguement for that. Sue Dibny gets raped, then she's torched by a flamethrower, then Deathstrokebeats the crap out of everyone, then a bunch of people die, then the autopsy that lasts six issues ends and we all figure it out. If you want subdued looks at heroes, pick up the X-Men Vignettes TPB. I should state, however, that I intend to get the IC TPB whenver it comes out, just to really see for myself.

I was born on Marvel. I've been reading Marvel most of my life. When I want mainstream spandex, there's just no need for me to cross the pond. I don't hate DC, I'm just content to stick with the style and characters I've loved all my life.

so...based on the fact that you've been able to come to such clear judgment on Identity Crisis having never read it, i have to wonder if you've come to these other decisions on the DC Universe and its charactes without reading any of their adventures? Because your comments seem to show a lack of understanding for the depth and diversity of the line. Green Arrow is so fallible and human that Stan Lee himself could have created him...except that Ollie has three dimensions to his character as opposed to two. ;) that's just one example...there are numerous others.

honestly, i used to be like you. I loved Marvel. Only read Marvel. Marvel were the only books worth reading. Never picked up anything but Marvel. and then on a whim, i picked up something that wasn't Marvel. It was Bone. small chink in the armor, something that good not coming from Marvel. hell, it was better than anything i was reading at Marvel. tried some DC, some Image, some Dark Horse...discovered Vertigo and i was lost. i still read plenty of Marvel and love what i do read there. but i read just as much DC, Vertigo, Wildstorm, Dark Horse, Oni. you really have to open your eyes to the diversity that's out in the market. because it sounds like you've really limited yourself. Any character, no matter how powerful, can be engaging, interesting, vulnerable and human...just so long as they've got the right writer. and with Greg Rucka writing Superman and Wonder Woman, with Judd Winick taking care of Batman and Green Arrow, Geoff Johns handling the Flash and Green Lantern...a dash of Gail Simone on Birds of Prey and Action Comics, a little Teen Titans and Outsiders for good measure...and the realization that you're really missing out if you haven't been reading DC in recent years starts to come together.

evilomar
Feb 15, 2005, 05:29 pm
I remember being 8 years old and picking up Crisis on Infinite Earths when it came out. I loved it, didn't fully understand what the hell was going on then, but loved Perez' artwork. Looking back its still one of the most greatest and confusing crossover ever in the DC universe. Lots of Batman stuff I preffered Legacy to most and no love for Supes, but the list was still good with a couple of exceptions IMHO.

nose_gaudi_rj
Feb 15, 2005, 07:14 pm
because having two entries involving rape in two totally different contexts is really an "obsession." :p


Cheap shot on my part that one. I just thought my predicted top ten was funny.

the_captain_smiley
Feb 16, 2005, 12:44 pm
It is amazing how most of the spots are Batman books. It is also obvious that Crisis would be the number spot and with good reason too.

Phasmal
Feb 16, 2005, 09:00 pm
Glad to see I've made an impression on you guys. I'll clarify a little:

I love Vertigo, Wildstorm, Cliffhanger, Homage, and most of the other imprint DC owns. I even enjoyed the "Hush" storyline Japh Loeb did. I would like to pick up some Flash stuff by Geoff Johns if DC didn't make it so hard for me to know what order their TPBs are in (Any help?). Oh yeah, Kevin Smith did the best revival ever with Green Arrow. But for the most part, DC just doesn't seem to give its characters real problems. I won't repeat what I said about the Big Three, but they all seem perfect. How can Green Lantern lose, as long as he has a pretty good imagination (a friend of mine is obsessed with Kyle, though, and makes him sound pretty cool)? I'll also notice that no one had a rebuttal for my "Batarang paper trail" idea.

To clear up some stuff: I hated what Morrison did to my precious X-Men, and I think Jean shouldn't have died again, because we all know that she'll be back. In fact, I'd love for Joe Q to realease a list of the times he denied a death or rebirth due to his "Dead is Dead" policy. Also, Wolverine is supposed to just have an advanced healing factor, and he consistently gets injuries that a normal body would never heal, so that pisses me off sometimes. But I stillread his book.

It seems like a planet that blew up billions of miles away wouldn't have (Oh yeah, Millar's "Red Son" kicked ass) all blown over to Earth. And tracking down all the Kryptonite on Earth sounds doable, since I don't think Supes's enemies go out and mine space for the stuff.

Reagarding Batarangs versus Web-fluid: At least Spidey runs out once in a while. And Xavier iprobably has a deal with Lilandra to get monthly shipments of new Shi'ar stuff. And his dad did work on the Manhattan Project, so he might get government residuals.

When it comes right down to it, I don't sample new DC because I don't have the money. Last Thursday I spent $100.56 at the comic store. I just love too much Marvel to branch out that much. If anyone has any suggestions for convincing me of the greatness of DC, I'd love to hear them.

Jordan T. Maxwell
Feb 16, 2005, 11:22 pm
Glad to see I've made an impression on you guys. I'll clarify a little:

I love Vertigo, Wildstorm, Cliffhanger, Homage, and most of the other imprint DC owns. I even enjoyed the "Hush" storyline Japh Loeb did. I would like to pick up some Flash stuff by Geoff Johns if DC didn't make it so hard for me to know what order their TPBs are in (Any help?). Oh yeah, Kevin Smith did the best revival ever with Green Arrow. But for the most part, DC just doesn't seem to give its characters real problems. I won't repeat what I said about the Big Three, but they all seem perfect. How can Green Lantern lose, as long as he has a pretty good imagination (a friend of mine is obsessed with Kyle, though, and makes him sound pretty cool)? I'll also notice that no one had a rebuttal for my "Batarang paper trail" idea.

the thing is, though, that writers are constantly finding ways to put these supposedly "perfect" characters through their paces. that's what makes for the most compelling drama and action. How powerful does a thing have to be to challenge Superman (and yes, i think it's awesome that his greatest enemy is a normal man with incredible intelligence...i prefer Lex without the armor because he's more of a threat to Superman on a cerebral level than hand to hand) or Wonder Woman? how smart or skilled does an opponent have to be to stand toe to toe with Batman? where are the limits of their powers and abilities? But even moreso, the best stories with these characters are the ones that challenge and examine their humanity. And that's something DC is doing amazingly these days. i used to have the exact same problem...i thought these characters were too perfect, too unrelateable. and in many stories, they are. but it's not exactly like Marvel's got a spotless record on the quality of their books. so while it's no crime to like and identify with certain characters, i always say the creative team is going to make all the difference. Look at it...the gap in quality between a Chuck Austen written Superman and the same character (and supporting cast) under the more skilled pen of Greg Rucka. so i say follow writers and artists you like more than characters and titles. and if the gods smile and a creative team you like is working on a character or team that you enjoy...well, those are just plain the best.



To clear up some stuff: I hated what Morrison did to my precious X-Men, and I think Jean shouldn't have died again, because we all know that she'll be back. In fact, I'd love for Joe Q to realease a list of the times he denied a death or rebirth due to his "Dead is Dead" policy. Also, Wolverine is supposed to just have an advanced healing factor, and he consistently gets injuries that a normal body would never heal, so that pisses me off sometimes. But I stillread his book.

YOUR precious X-Men? sounds somewhat presumptive. they are neither yours, nor are they precious. Hey, i love X-Men. i've been reading X-Men since i was 9 and i'll stand up for them when others attack the franchise (unless their complaints are justified...which, sadly, many are). but they are not some sacred cow that nothing new or different can be done with. Morrison's run was absolutely the best i've seen in over a decade, since Claremont left the book. and up against certain years in Claremont's original run, i'd put Morrison's run on par or above. that's my personal taste though. and EVERYONE comes back from the dead. From Superman to Aunt May. the dead is dead policy is meant to curtail meaningless deaths and resurrections that cheapen the drama and tragedy of characters dying, so that when a character dies it means something...and when they come back, it's a genuine surprise. Quesada has always said this was the policy, and like in real life a few people take a snippet of what he said, spin it out of context and try to skewer him in public perception. there are many things Quesada's done that i haven't enjoyed, but i'd rather take up those legitimate issues and complain about them then misinterpret what he has or hasn't said.

(and what the hell this has to do with top 10 DC crossovers, i can't for the life of me figure out. ;) )


It seems like a planet that blew up billions of miles away wouldn't have (Oh yeah, Millar's "Red Son" kicked ass) all blown over to Earth. And tracking down all the Kryptonite on Earth sounds doable, since I don't think Supes's enemies go out and mine space for the stuff.

except that in post Crisis continuity, Kryptonite is much rarer. Lex had a piece that was attached to Clark's shuttle, and that now belongs to Batman. other pieces have hit sure, but it's not like the planet is littered with it (well, except for the fact that Jeph Loeb in his Silver Age pre-Crisis fetish has now dropped a whole slew of multi colored Kryptonite on to the planet...ugh). it's not like every opponent he comes across has Kryptonite anymore, despite what you might've seen on Smallville.


Reagarding Batarangs versus Web-fluid: At least Spidey runs out once in a while. And Xavier iprobably has a deal with Lilandra to get monthly shipments of new Shi'ar stuff. And his dad did work on the Manhattan Project, so he might get government residuals.

so, Bruce is too perfect because he's rich but Xavier having a back end deal with an intergalactic empire for advanced technology that he hordes for himself and his own personal use is okay? and for the record, Xavier and the X-Men no longer have any such connections with the Shi'ar. the empire has been all but destroyed and Lilandra has dissolved all relations with Xavier and the planet Earth.


When it comes right down to it, I don't sample new DC because I don't have the money. Last Thursday I spent $100.56 at the comic store. I just love too much Marvel to branch out that much. If anyone has any suggestions for convincing me of the greatness of DC, I'd love to hear them.

well, it doesn't really seem like you're too willing to try something new. personally, i've recently started to pick up Flash and Wonder Woman and found them to be some of the best superhero books in the market. Adventures of Superman and Superman are fantastic, and Gail Simone will soon becoming on Action Comics and i have yet to read a comic by her i haven't enjoyed...so on that note, also check out Birds of Prey (particularly if you're a fan of deep characterization). Green Arrow's artwork has taken a recent dip, but the writing's still strong and i'd personally recommend Outsiders and Teen Titans. but the truth is...no one is going to change your prejudice against DC until you yourself choose to try something out and approach it with an open mind. let's face it...there was a time before you tried Marvel when you had to take a chance on it.