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Jordan T. Maxwell
Feb 21, 2005, 08:54 pm
<img src=http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dcteams/top10dcteams.jpg align=left alt="Top Ten DC Teams of All Time">TOP TEN DC TEAMS OF ALL TIME
By: (Nick Costanzo, Raul Grau, Jon Hancock, Matt Lazorwitz, Jordan T. Maxwell, Dylan McKay)

When a threat rises that no one hero can face alone, when a fight looms on the horizon that would consume an individual, when sales are needed that no mere solo title could generate...these are the times that give birth to great teams. And from iconic team-ups like Superman/Batman and Green Lantern/Green Arrow to vast armies like the Legion of Superheroes, DC is home to some of the greatest teams the comic book medium has ever known.

But what makes a great team? Is it simply mathematical, the cumulative greatness of its individual members? Perhaps that is part of it. After all, as cool as it is to see Wonder Woman defeat a monster threatening to destroy the world, there is a sense of wonder and awe to see her do so with the help of the Flash and Green Lantern. But there is something more that raises a team above a mere collection of people gathered together in the same place. Relationships. The cornerstone of great drama. Watching people work together, fight together, live together...even die together. It is in these relationships...friends and rivals, lovers and brothers-in-arms...that we most clearly see the essence of their characters. And in the heightened reality of a comic book world, the intensity of these relationships are often as high as the stakes for which the characters fight.

Regardless of what makes them great, the message they convey is clear: by putting aside our differences and working together for the greater good, we can make this world a truly finer place. Or at the very least save it from extraterrestrial monstrosities. Ladies and gentlemen, we present for you now...the ten greatest teams in 70 years of DC's history!


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#10 "BIRDS OF PREY"

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dcteams/10.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dcteams/10t.jpg" align=left alt="Birds of Prey"></a>First appearance: Black Canary/Oracle: Birds of Prey #1
Created by: Chuck Dixon and Gary Frank

Oracle is the DCU’s all knowing information broker, helping heroes find what they need to when it’s time to save the day. But what happens when Oracle needs something done? She calls on her own set of agents: the Birds of Prey (okay, no one actually calls them that outside of the book. But just go with it). Needing help to solve a terrorist plot, Oracle calls on Black Canary. Deciding they work well as a team, Oracle continues to send Canary on assignments. And recently, a new element has been added to the mix. With Canary kidnapped, Oracle is forced to contact Huntress. With Canary’s urging, Huntress becomes a full time agent of Oracle, and the three have become more than teammates, they've become friends. And this is part of why the Birds are so special. If the JSA are mentors, the JLA are icons, the Titans are family, the Birds are friends. From their first appearances together, the evolution of the relationships between Oracle, Black Canary, and Huntress have evolved naturally and true to character. They are also important for being the first all-female super hero team to have their own title, and a long lasting one at that. In an industry so dominated by male heroes and male readers, this in itself is a truly heroic accomplishment.


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#9 TEEN TITANS

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dcteams/9.jpg" target="_blank">
<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dcteams/9t.jpg"" align=left alt="Teen Titans"></a>First Appearance: The Brave and the Bold #54
Created by: Bob Haney
Reimagined by: Marv Wolfman and George Perez

In their first incarnation, the Teen Titans were little more than a collection of the sidekicks of some of the most popular characters at the time. Robin, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash, Aqualad and Speedy. Free and independent of their adult counterparts, the kids would team up as friends and fight whatever dastardly deeds they happened upon. So really, the team was little more than an unchaperoned after school program for latchkey sidekicks. It was not until the team was revamped in the 1980s under Wolfman and Perez that the title really found its legs. Suddenly, more than just superhero daycare, the team's ranks were filled not only with sidekicks but all new characters as well who weren't all just smiling in their tights. These characters were much more angsty, tragic, rebellious. Teenagers. As individuals and as a team that captured the turmoil and drama of adolescence, when every event seems like the end of the world. And in the Titans' world, it very possibly could have been. The teen audience latched on to the team's darker emotions and themes (death, betrayal, self doubt, insecurity), giving even the marvelous competition's merry mutants a run for their money. The team went through several permutations over the years, none even coming close to tasting the popularity and success of the New Teen Titans. But now it seems as though the legend may live again as Geoff Johns has brought the team somewhat back to form...or rather the team's two earliest forms, reuniting Cyborg, Starfire, Raven and Beast Boy as they mentor a new generation of teen heroes: Superboy and the new Robin, Wonder Girl, Kid Flash and Speedy.


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#8 SUICIDE SQUAD

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dcteams/8.jpg" target="_blank">
<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dcteams/8t.jpg" align=left alt="Suicide Squad"></a>First appearance: The Brave and the Bold #25
Created by: Robert Kanigher & Ross Andru
Reimagined in: Legends #1
Reimagined by: John Ostrander & Luke McDonnell

Why can't criminals be heroes too? Seems like a silly question, but in the Suicide Squad, they can be. The idea is simple: criminals can get their sentences reduced or considered served if they participate in high risk covert operations for the American government. Led by veteran soldier Rick Flagg, they travel the world dealing with the more morally ambiguous situations that superheroes choose not to. The beauty of the team's dynamic is that it can include members who don't like each other, members who actively hate each other, and even members who love each other. And in an inversion of convention, the teammates who love each other are often more of a burden than the ones who hate each other! Impressively, the team's roster has contained virtually no well known characters yet still managed to sustain its own book for an extended run. By putting villains and criminals into situations where heroics are required, readers are treated to new and unique insights into the characters' psyches. Who's selfish? Who's noble? Who's capable of redemption? Who's just looking to save their own necks? More than anything, the Suicide Squad proves that name brand characters aren't always needed, that mission based superhero books can work, that a team with an ever changing roster can still be distinctive and that there are few better dramatic devices than the internal conflict of the immoral who are forced to be moral.


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#7 HALO, INC.

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dcteams/7.jpg" target="_blank">
<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dcteams/7t.jpg" align=left alt="Halo, Inc."></a>First appearance: Wildcats (v2) #12
Created by: Joe Casey and Sean Phillips

Can a battery change the world? Perhaps, but it can certainly change a team. When Jim Lee debuted his original WildC.A.T.S., they were a unique premise inside a familiar structure. An assemblage of aliens, hybrids, and humans united to end an intergalactic war on the side of good. However, the membership consisted of guy with claws, guy with guns, strong guy, energy blast guy, bad girl, hot girl... X-tremely unoriginal. Alan Moore, scribe supreme, came along and removed their purpose, and though they won their war, the C.A.T.S. did not feel much like celebrating. They were adrift, lost without meaning, trying to help humanity, but not quite sure how. Fortunately, a sudden death brought new opportunity. The passing of their founder gave an android both his own identity and his own empire. Rechristened Jack Marlowe, Spartan evolved from energy blast guy into corporate mogul, still fighting to make the world a better place, but through business dealings, not spandexed battles. While the gunslinging Grifter, the other hold-out from the C.A.T.S. days, still held on to his 'might makes right' philosophy, Jack saw commercialism as the means to mold minds. Halo, Inc was born, a collection of old allies and new employees, with the express purpose of building a better battery. A mercenary, an android, a federal agent, an arms dealer, an accountant...as individuals, they were flawed; as a unit, they were profitable. Society has become defined by capitalistic corporations, so can an altruistic force for global change clothed in business suits enact the sweeping changes denied to other superteams? Well, with the cancellation of Wildcats 3.0, we may never know for sure, but it was definitely intriguing to see them try.


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#6 LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dcteams/6.jpg" target="_blank">
<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dcteams/6t.jpg" align=left alt="League of Extraordinary Gentlemen"></a>First appearance: League of Extraordinary Gentlemen (v1) #1
Created by: Alan Moore and Kevin O'Neill

On the dark and smoggy streets of Victorian London, there are still crimes that only people of special abilities can handle. To fight such crimes, the crown calls on the League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Led by Mina Murray (government agent and former victim of Dracula), the League of the Nineteenth century consists of Allan Quatermain (adventurer and hunter), Captain Nemo (the Indian inventor of the Nautilus submarine and many other devices), Hawley Griffin (the Invisible Man), and Dr. Henry Jekyll (and more importantly his alter-ego Edward Hyde). The League fights many threats of the time, including The Doctor (also known as Fu Man Chu), their own former boss in British intelligence M (Sherlock Holmes’s arch-rival Professor James Moriarty), and the threat of invaders from Mars. Not all the members survive their adventures, but it seems that in a time of need, a new League will rise. The fascination with the League comes from Alan Moore’s brilliant use of classic literary figures and their interpretation here. The fate of Captain Nemo is never known, so he could work for the crown. Mina Murray and Allan Quatermain were never lovers in their original works, but who’s to say they wouldn’t have been? The dynamic between League members draws the reader in, making them care about these figures that date back a century, and makes this team something quite extraordinary.


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#5 THE INVISIBLES

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dcteams/5.jpg" target="_blank">
<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dcteams/5t.jpg" align=left alt="The Invisibles"></a>First appearance: The Invisibles (v1) #1
Created by: Grant Morrison, Steve Yeowell and Jill Thompson

King Mob. Ragged Robin. Lord Fanny. Boy. Jack Frost. They don't sound like your average everyday superheroes. Nor do they look, feel or act like them either. Because they're not. As members of the Invisible Army, they are a cell of occult terrorists and anarchists devoted to destroying a conspiracy to enslave all of humanity under the yoke of a terrible extradimensional authority. And they look damn good doing it. A testosterone fueled assassin living out his own personal spy show, a psychic girl from the future, a shamanic transvestite from Brazil, a former cop from New York City and a punk kid from Liverpool who might just be the next Buddha (but you can call him Dane, ta). Their missions are strange, ranging from astral time travel to fetch the Marquis de Sade to infiltrating an underground government facility to try and liberate God. They've talked with aliens, played chess with the Devil, joked with the gods and seen what the world looks like if you pull back the curtain. They don't fight clean or fair (though they are nice and smooth). And in a world where the sides are uncertain, they're not always even certain if they're the good guys. But they are great friends and look out for one another. Watching Robin and King Mob fall in love or Dane become good friends with a "poof" like Fanny is as cool as seeing the team take on the diminuitive evil of Mr. Quimper or try to figure out just what the hell the Hand of Glory does (if anyone can help me out with that one...cuz I'm stumped). Plus, since they're in an army of sorts, their ranks are often swelled with an ecelectic bunch of supporting players...hip hop voudoun Jim Crow, the ultra cool Mister Six, one eyed lesbian Jolly Roger, multibillionaire and pop culture conspiracy buff Mason Lang. The list goes on and on...into the future and the past. They're not always right. They're not always good. But they are always, always cool and have influenced their fans and the culture around them in ways both small...and quite large (are you ready to know what The Matrix really is?).


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#4 THE AUTHORITY

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dcteams/4.jpg" target="_blank">
<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dcteams/4t.jpg" align=left alt="The Authority"></a>First appearance: The Authority (v1) #1
Created by: Warren Ellis and Bryan Hitch

Name every criticism you've ever heard about superheroes. That they're too goody-goody. That they never kill even if it seems abundantly justified. That they only respond to the same threats over and over again. Well in 1999, Warren Ellis answered all these complaints with the Authority. The Authority began like many past super teams: A collection of powerful super-heroes, banding together to make the world a better place. And yet, the Authority is very different from the teams that have come before. They are ruthless, efficient, and unstoppable. Their adversaries never come back to haunt them again. They're all a little too dead for that. A big part of the team's charm lies in the brilliance with which they use their powers, the way they work together and their knack for unconventional problem solving. Even when caught by surprise, they always find a way to handle any situation while trading quips and banter that give the impression that they're having the time of their lives. Their influence throughout the comic book industry when they first hit the scene was impressive, popularizing the style of "widescreen" comics. The Authority has evolved from a benevolent protective force to a preemptive strike team that espouses hyper-liberal politics while using fascist means to apply them and into the leaders of the free world, having usurped the power of the American government. And yet, the Authority retains the reputation that made them so engaging to begin with. They're the team that does all the things superheroes aren't supposed to do, only to make them seem like the norm by the time they're done.


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#3 JUSTICE SOCIETY OF AMERICA

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dcteams/3.jpg" target="_blank">
<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dcteams/3t.jpg" align=left alt="Justice Society of America"></a>First appearance: All Star Comics #3
Created by: Gardner Fox & Everett E. Hibbard

The Justice Society of America. Formed to combat those threats to the nation which required more than one mystery man. Spawned by FDR’s wishes and given a name by the divine hand of Vengeance, the team was the first of its kind, a grouping of superheroes already featured in their own solo adventures to fight against mutual threats...and thus gave birth to the concept of the superteam. It also established for the first time in DC's comic books that all of these characters existed in a shared universe and continuity, establishing a convention of the genre that has become an absolute staple for most publishers. Their adventures not only spawned fun tales but sold plenty of comics. But the Justice Society were more than a collection of a DC reader’s favourite characters. They were the first step in forging DC’s legacy tradition. Their children became Infinity, Inc. and their successors became the Justice League. The team’s most turbulent period, during the McCarthy era of the United States, saw them disband after being ordered by HUAC to unmask rather than reveal their identities to a public that no longer trusted them. Currently the JSA have reformed as a collection of veterans and rookies, originals and successors working together to help each other grow. While many readers see the JLA as DC’s premier team, the JSA are viewed as the best team to be part of within their own universe, the heroes' heroes. America’s strongest heroes look out for each other, grow together and reinforce the idea of lineage that is so central to the DC.


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#2 "THE WATCHMEN"

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dcteams/2.jpg" target="_blank">
<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dcteams/2t.jpg" align=left alt="The Watchmen"></a>First appearance: Watchmen #1
Created by: Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons

Just as this work probes into the psychological motives behind people who dress in costumes and beat up criminals, so too does it peer into the reasons a group of such people would come together as a team in the real world. The first attempt during the Golden Age of this world, the Minutemen, is little more than a publicity stunt and soon disbands in the wake of rumors and scandal. The second, the Crimebusters, ends before it even begins as Captain Metropolis' naive hopes are literally sent up in flames by the Comedian's cynical world view. And the "Watchmen" aren't even actually a team, as Moore has a little joke at the reader's expense: the book's title sounds like it's about a team of superheroes named the Watchmen, but the only mention of them is the constant graffiti of Juvenal's critique of authority figures, "who watches the Watchmen?" Yet in the end, the book seems to favor such individuals teaming up with each other, coordinating their efforts. Each attempt by a character to go it alone ends in tragedy and failure. It is only together that they find victory and fulfillment. Daniel's life is empty and meaningless until he and Sally team up and it is through working with and relating to other humans that Doc Manhattan is able to exhibit any touch of humanity left within himself. Rorschach's attempts to stand aloof from his fellows results in his easy manipulation and capture, and ultimately his demise, while Veidt's megalomania surely would have been curbed and tempered by more rational influences...and if not, then they at least could have seen the signs beforehand and stopped him. The book does not feature a solid team, but it is important for its critical commentary on the concept of the team, that our only chance in this world is to work together. Who watches the Watchmen? Hopefully, each other.


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#1 JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA

<a href="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dcteams/1.jpg" target="_blank">
<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dcteams/1t.jpg" align=left alt="Justice League of America"></a>First appearance: The Brave and the Bold #28
Created by: Gardner Fox

Okay, if anyone is actually surprised by this, you're in the wrong thread. The JLA are the team supreme of the DC universe, a collection of the finest it has to offer. Not merely a social club for the most powerful heroes, the League utilizes a wide range of talents, skills and abilities. Not merely Superman's strength, but his moral compass. Not just the might and majesty of Wonder Woman and Aquaman, but their diplomacy and martial skills as well. Batman's fighting abilities come in just as handy as his knack for detection and unconventional problem solving. The Flash's quick feet serve him just as well as his quick wit. Green Arrow's quiver of trick shafts are as plentiful and as sharp as his questioning and defiance. And the Atom can think big as he's growing small. It's watching the interplay of these powers and abilities as the League faces off against unimaginable danger that stimulates the reader's imagination and sense of wonder, leaves jaws dropped and keeps pages turning. This isn't a team about overly deep characterization or introspective journeys. Their headquarters have included an orbiting satellite station and the moon. Their opponents are the deadliest and most dangerous around. The outcome of their battles isn't just a building or a city, but the entire planet. And that kind of scale doesn't leave much room for meditation and discourse. For the heroes, this team is about joining forces with others to protect the world. For the readers, it's the fun and joy of seeing such incredible characters all in one place. I mean, just imagine the myth writers in ancient Greece (yes, I know, oral tradition...just go with it) sitting around a fire and saying, "okay, let's get Jason, Hercules, Orpheus and these other great characters...and put em all on a boat together! The kids'll eat it up!" That's the kind of scope and impact we're talking about. Don't believe me? How many of us as kids were exposed to these characters the first time not through a comic book, but through a little show called the Superfriends? A show that was basically a Saturday morning JLA. And with the great success of the more recent Justice League and Justice League Unlimited cartoons, a new generation of kids are being exposed to them as well.


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And there you have them...the top ten greatest DC teams of all time (all time meaning, of course, the last seven decades. Because if there was a better DC team before that, it's probably just a continuity glitch). Thanks to all the hard working staff who nominated, argued, voted, argued, ranked, argued, wrote and then for variety decided to do some arguing in song. And, of course, thank you dear reader for teaming up with us on this look at some of the leagues, legions, squads, societies, coalitions, cadres, alliances and armies that make DC so great. For more 70th anniversary goodness (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=32203) , stick with ComiX-Fan, all month long!


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Teen Titans, The Invisibles, The Watchmen, Justice League of America: Jordan T. Maxwell
Birds of Prey, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Matt Lazorwitz
The Authority: Nick Costanzo
Halo, Inc.: Raul Grau
Justice Society of America: Jon Hancock
Suicide Squad: Dylan McKay
Contributors: Zeb Aslam, Lia Brown, Mitch Brown, Jennifer de Vries, Martin Dudek, James Groves, Alex Groff, Al Harahap, Trent Hosking, Kent Miller, Omar A. Safi, Tom Toner
Editor: Jordan T. Maxwell
Columns Editor: Joel Phillips
Editor in Chief: Al Harahap
Co-Publisher: Brian Wilkinson
Publisher: Eric J. Moreels


<center>All characters, titles, and likenesses thereof ™ © DC Comics (http://www.dccomics.com) or its licensors,
and are used without permission, not for profit. All other content © original author and ComiX-Fan (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan).</center>
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Zachary J. Morrison
Feb 21, 2005, 09:18 pm
The JLA and Birds of Prey are my favorite teams.

hjwilson
Feb 21, 2005, 09:31 pm
JLA is my favorite but it's nice to see Suicide Squad get a nod.

I think the only other team that might get mentioned would be Morrison's version of the Doom Patrol.

BullyDawg
Feb 21, 2005, 09:32 pm
I registered at the site so that I could make this post. How can the Legion not be one of the top 10 teams of all time at DC?

BD

darkcypherlad
Feb 21, 2005, 09:56 pm
I agree with BillyDawg. To exclude the Legion of Super-Heroes is not only puzzling, but also slightly embarrassing. Did the writer(s) simply forget? One would hope so.

I also am perplexed as to why Wildstorm's teams figured so heavily into this list. The Authority I can understand (although it should not have ranked so high) but that team from Wildcats? I really can't see the reasoning behind that.

I would've also liked to have seen The Outsiders make it as well but alas, I guess they aren't "hip" enough. Ah well...

Jon Hancock
Feb 21, 2005, 09:58 pm
Tell me about it. I'm still confused that Halo are considered a team. They're a poor man's JLI ;)

I think Legion should have been in here. Some how BoP scraped through though.

Stupid democracy

Jordan T. Maxwell
Feb 21, 2005, 10:03 pm
I agree with BillyDawg. To exclude the Legion of Super-Heroes is not only puzzling, but also slightly embarrassing. Did the writer(s) simply forget? One would hope so.

no, none of the writers forgot. but no one voted for them, so it would've been rather embarassing for one of the writers to do an entry for them. Many excellent teams were nominated but didn't make it. all the same, i tried to give the Legion a nod in the intro paragraph because they're worthy of a mention.


I also am perplexed as to why Wildstorm's teams figured so heavily into this list. The Authority I can understand (although it should not have ranked so high) but that team from Wildcats? I really can't see the reasoning behind that.

then why don't you read Raul's entry for the team? :P


I would've also liked to have seen The Outsiders make it as well but alas, I guess they aren't "hip" enough. Ah well...

i dig the Outsiders too, but about the only team i would take off to include them or the Legion is the Suicide Squad, and i can understand why they're here. Ten slots ain't much, but we had a wide variety of people and opinions selecting these so i think they represent a great wealth of diversity and quality.

Anand Khatri
Feb 21, 2005, 10:04 pm
Thank God The Watchmen were mentioned.

Inferno
Feb 21, 2005, 10:04 pm
I have to say I agree....sounds like the ball was dropped on this one....Legion should have been there...even people that are not fans of the book would agree on that.

Hotknife86
Feb 21, 2005, 10:28 pm
Must admit, I was definitely expecting the Legion. At least my favorite DC team, the Teen Titans was there. Surprised they weren't ranked higher/lower...
Good list though. I'm not familiar with some of the entries. Nice crash course.

Tan K.
Feb 21, 2005, 10:57 pm
no argument from me. nice list. (can't believe Sovereign Seven didn't make it...that CC bias again :) )

fantomgman
Feb 21, 2005, 11:06 pm
Okay as far as teams go all great choices. I mean cmon on dude the league, wildcats, watchmen, authority, and the invisibles shouldnt be on this list. while owned by dc they are not part of the dc universey yknow that is your list. plus suicide squad while team how it beats the titans I'll never know. How it is there and the legion isnt. and what about the rogues (i picked up flash 214-217 just because of ic they are by far the most captivating villains as whole by far and im a marvel and a spidey fan) I think youre list has great potential just need to trim the scope of things a bit. you forgot top ten. when I read watchman it is the jsa that comes to mind or you really arent comparing them to anybody else. well peace thats my rant

Jordan T. Maxwell
Feb 21, 2005, 11:27 pm
Okay as far as teams go all great choices. I mean cmon on dude the league, wildcats, watchmen, authority, and the invisibles shouldnt be on this list. while owned by dc they are not part of the dc universey yknow that is your list. plus suicide squad while team how it beats the titans I'll never know. How it is there and the legion isnt. and what about the rogues (i picked up flash 214-217 just because of ic they are by far the most captivating villains as whole by far and im a marvel and a spidey fan) I think youre list has great potential just need to trim the scope of things a bit. you forgot top ten. when I read watchman it is the jsa that comes to mind or you really arent comparing them to anybody else. well peace thats my rant

the scope of this anniversary isn't just the DC Universe, though. It is ALL of DC's comics and so any team published under DC was eligible for consideration. so we had DCU teams like the Legion, the Outsiders and the All Star Squadron nominated...but we also had Vertigo groups like the Trenchcoat Brigade, Spider Jerusalem and his Filthy Assistants, the Minutemen and even as we coined them the "Y Road Crew" (Yorick, 355, Dr. Mann and Ampersand). Groups from Wildstorm like the Monarchy and Top Ten (why you think we shouldn't have DCU teams, but then say we forgot Top Ten is beyond me). heck, even Jonny DC teams like the Powerpuff Girls and the Scooby Gang got nominations. it's very limiting to say this list should only have DCU teams. if it did, i wouldn't even be involved in this event because it would strike me as frighteningly elitist. The fact that we have half DCU teams, two Vertigo, two Wildstorm and an ABC team i think represents the great wealth and diversity that DC produces.

as for why Legion didn't make it...well, there were a lot of people working on this list, fans of the DCU, fans of Vertigo, fans of Wildstorm, fans of all three...and the Legion just didn't make the cut in the long run. A lot of good teams didn't. that's KIND Of the idea behind a top ten list. some teams don't make the final cut.

TheIronYuppie
Feb 22, 2005, 12:08 am
<img src=http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10dcteams/top10dcteams.jpg align=left alt="Top Ten DC Teams of All Time">TOP TEN DC TEAMS OF ALL TIME
By: (Nick Costanzo, Raul Grau, Jon Hancock, Matt Lazorwitz, Jordan T. Maxwell, Dylan McKay)

And there you have them...the top ten greatest DC teams of all time (all time meaning, of course, the last 70 decades. Because if there was a better DC team before that, it's probably just a continuity glitch). Thanks to all the hard working staff who nominated, argued, voted, argued, ranked, argued, wrote and then for variety decided to do some arguing in song. And, of course, thank you dear reader for teaming up with us on this look at some of the leagues, legions, squads, societies, coalitions, cadres, alliances and armies that make DC so great. For more 70th anniversary goodness (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=32203) , stick with ComiX-Fan, all month long!



Greatest teams of the past 70 decades, eh? That is a long time, and presumedly, a lot of teams.

Cyberman
Feb 22, 2005, 12:15 am
Watchmen's my favorite comic, but I don't think the Watchmen belong on the list, as they never were a real team, and we never really saw the Minutemen operate.

Jordan T. Maxwell
Feb 22, 2005, 01:00 am
Greatest teams of the past 70 decades, eh? That is a long time, and presumedly, a lot of teams.

hey, you try writing and editing something at 6 in the morning and see if a few gaffes don't slip by you...;)

Watchmen's my favorite comic, but I don't think the Watchmen belong on the list, as they never were a real team, and we never really saw the Minutemen operate.

that's why it's not the Minutemen who appear here. but in the narrative of the story itself, we do see Night Owl, Silk Spectre, Rorschach and Doc Manhattan team together in the end to go up against you know who...so there is a team of sorts in the book. but i think i explained pretty well why such a "non team" is still a top team. if not...oh well, tough noogies.

Dylan McKay
Feb 22, 2005, 02:19 am
So I take it I'm the only one who thinks that leaving the Minutemen off is the outrage?

Jordan T. Maxwell
Feb 22, 2005, 02:59 am
i don't think it's an outrage that they're not here...i just think it'd be plenty damn cool if they were. ;)

Dylan McKay
Feb 22, 2005, 03:03 am
True, true...

Al Harahap
Feb 22, 2005, 04:07 am
Re: Legion
I knew it would upset some people. But, to be honest, the Legion have been so twisted, rebooted, re-rebooted, at one point even with two versions of the team with different versions of the same characters existing at the same time, that I think it hurts their overall consideration for the list.

Watchmen's my favorite comic, but I don't think the Watchmen belong on the list, as they never were a real team, and we never really saw the Minutemen operate.

The criterion isn't that the group be one that officially calls itself a team and gives itself an official name. If that were the case, the Halo, Inc. Wildcats and Birds of Prey wouldn't be on the list either. Rather, it's a group of individuals who act together with an element of cooperation. In the Watchmen's case, they did work together in an unofficial capacity as vigilantes and then some of them again for the murder mystery chronicled in the series.

RingoStarr
Feb 22, 2005, 09:16 am
Watchmen's my favorite comic, but I don't think the Watchmen belong on the list, as they never were a real team, and we never really saw the Minutemen operate.

I've gotta agree. In comic book time, they worked together for what? 2 days or so?

A great comic but its a team up. Marvel Team up had some good stories. Lets put the Spider-Man/Wolverine team on here :)

Again, I love Watchmen, but I think sticking them on here is a stretch.

Jordan T. Maxwell
Feb 22, 2005, 09:54 am
I've gotta agree. In comic book time, they worked together for what? 2 days or so?

that's not the point. Again, the focus here wasn't on the team since there was no team, but on the group of people working together and what the commentary and significance of that on the idea of the superteam.

honestly, i don't even know why we bother writing entries sometimes. :P


A great comic but its a team up. Marvel Team up had some good stories. Lets put the Spider-Man/Wolverine team on here :)

yes, let's have Spider-Man and Wolverine as one of the top 10 DC teams of all time...:rolleyes:


Again, I love Watchmen, but I think sticking them on here is a stretch.

and it really isn't. we had some arguments about their consideration on this list, but once that was settled there was an overwhelming amount of votes for them, and their final ranking placed them as the second greatest team so no, it's not a stretch and it's not like they just squeezed their way on to the list.

Alex Guillen
Feb 22, 2005, 10:04 am
overall the list was great. The only snub? of course the League of Super-Heroes.Overall I think that their ranks are a bit too many at times and each writer has brought alot to each of the team's incaranations but it makes it difficult to select one League lineup.
Halo, Inc? that was an interesting choice but I'm glad to see something from the C.A.T.S here and although the Watchmen aren't a team, it dealt with alot of team chemistry especially Nite-Owl and rorschac and some flashbacks.
The League is a great team and Moore just made them a great read, I still can't put down volume 1.
Great job guys.

darkcypherlad
Feb 22, 2005, 11:23 am
First, I'd like to say I'm glad I'm not alone in my surprise that Legion was snubbed. I was worried I was overreacting, but I guess not (well, at least not where Legion is concerned).

Secondly, I'd like to respond to Al Harahab's explanation as to why the Legion is not a viable candidate for canonization (well, in Comix-Fan anyway :P). It's true, Legion's continuity is a mess. Multiple titles, loads of team members, a confusing timeline...etc., etc., etc. But...this is DC we're talking about here. I could have easily described the JLA just now. Plus, the fact that Legion is STILL going strong, has had SO many titles, and attracts a wide array of comic book creators attests to its greatness. Plus, it's had at least two "greatest moments" storylines: "The Great Darkness Saga" and the "Legion Lost" miniseries.

It's commendable that you wanted this list to reflect DC's diversity. I fully support the decision to include non-DCU teams and think The Watchmen and The Authority (despite my sheer and utter loathing for the latter) deserve a spot. However, I think you've sacrificed quality in favor of showing this diversity. When I asked for justification regarding the selection of Halo Inc, I was really asking for an explanation as to why this team is more deserving than Legion. Yes, I know, that was an impossible thing to ask, but hey, we can be impossible at times, eh? :)

I wouldn't call this list a failure though. Like all top 10 lists, it's entirely subjective (and almost always maddening!). It's generated debate, which shows not only the interest of ComixFan readers, but the passion of DC readers as well.

Thank you all for reading. I'm looking forward to more of these lists. Perhaps a "10 Best Super-Pets?" (And Krypto better be numero uno!!!)

Kevin Sutton
Feb 22, 2005, 01:08 pm
I think those are pretty good choices, but I think if your basing the list on the value of the team as a team, then the Watchmen should be lower. While they can be considered a team, and the book and the characters are great, the dynamics of the team that emerges aren't all that special. (unless you also include the Minutemen and the Crimebusters as part of it -but those are different teams...)

Abbatoir
Feb 22, 2005, 01:21 pm
I was expecting to see Legion as well and also the Endless and JLI (if that qualifies).
Nice to see the Invisibles. They're great. AS are BoP and the Titans.

ursabearX
Feb 22, 2005, 01:46 pm
What, No Legion, no Seven Solders, or the Trench Coat Brigade. I was surprised that the legion of Superheroes was not even mention but, Halo inc was :rant:

nose_gaudi_rj
Feb 22, 2005, 02:17 pm
Now that's more like it.
Brilliant stuff from begining to end, even the interestingly 'perverse' choices like Halo and the Suicide Squad.

Of course it would have been nice to see the Doom Patrol on there, but the two stellar runs for that team probably have to be balanced out by the many excruciating indignities that pretty much every writer who wasn't Drake or Morrison has heaped on them.

The only WTFish things about this list are Watchmen being considered a team, although I kind of buy the arguement, and (for my money) the absense of Planetary.

Dylan McKay
Feb 22, 2005, 03:30 pm
First, I'd like to say I'm glad I'm not alone in my surprise that Legion was snubbed. I was worried I was overreacting, but I guess not (well, at least not where Legion is concerned).

Secondly, I'd like to respond to Al Harahab's explanation as to why the Legion is not a viable candidate for canonization (well, in Comix-Fan anyway :P). It's true, Legion's continuity is a mess. Multiple titles, loads of team members, a confusing timeline...etc., etc., etc. But...this is DC we're talking about here. I could have easily described the JLA just now. Plus, the fact that Legion is STILL going strong, has had SO many titles, and attracts a wide array of comic book creators attests to its greatness. Plus, it's had at least two "greatest moments" storylines: "The Great Darkness Saga" and the "Legion Lost" miniseries.

It's commendable that you wanted this list to reflect DC's diversity. I fully support the decision to include non-DCU teams and think The Watchmen and The Authority (despite my sheer and utter loathing for the latter) deserve a spot. However, I think you've sacrificed quality in favor of showing this diversity. When I asked for justification regarding the selection of Halo Inc, I was really asking for an explanation as to why this team is more deserving than Legion. Yes, I know, that was an impossible thing to ask, but hey, we can be impossible at times, eh? :)

I wouldn't call this list a failure though. Like all top 10 lists, it's entirely subjective (and almost always maddening!). It's generated debate, which shows not only the interest of ComixFan readers, but the passion of DC readers as well.

Thank you all for reading. I'm looking forward to more of these lists. Perhaps a "10 Best Super-Pets?" (And Krypto better be numero uno!!!)


The Legion is viable, they just didn't make the cut. I think the best explanation is how Jordan put it, on a top ten list, some good teams were going to miss out.

As for Halo Inc. what happens here is the cult effect. Those who liked the book, liked it ALOT. I would have no problem saying that the team was the best thing to happen to superheroes in a decade. Unique concepts in superhero comics are rare, and Halo Inc definatly qualifies. For me, when I was voting, I had to ask myself, what makes the team special. And it was alot easier to find what's special about Halo Inc, than most other teams.

James Groves
Feb 22, 2005, 04:15 pm
Man, Legion of Super-Heroes...

But it came down to fitting 11 poles in 10 slots. One had to miss out. I still wish Legion had gone in ahead of Birds of Prey, personally though :)
But the entries are great and the list in general is pretty darn great too. I have no real complaints with how the list turned out... maybe some Legion love though.

As for staf bias to Vertigo, Wildstorm, etc?

:frust: :wall: :whistle:

If i'm biased towards good quality team concepts then so be it.

Jordan T. Maxwell
Feb 22, 2005, 07:10 pm
I was expecting to see Legion as well and also the Endless and JLI (if that qualifies).
Nice to see the Invisibles. They're great. AS are BoP and the Titans.

just to clarify because it did come up, but the Endless were not counted because they most definitely are not a team by any stretch of the imagination. they're a family. and other than Dream accompanying Delirium on her quest to find Destruction, they don't really work together in a co operative fashion. In the end, as editor, it was my judgment call to make and i'm a HUGE Sandman fan. and if someone had nominated the Dreaming staff, i would've given that some consideration. but the Endless were not considered because this isn't the top ten groups, and a wonderfully dysfunctional family does not a team make.

Now that's more like it.
Brilliant stuff from begining to end, even the interestingly 'perverse' choices like Halo and the Suicide Squad.

Of course it would have been nice to see the Doom Patrol on there, but the two stellar runs for that team probably have to be balanced out by the many excruciating indignities that pretty much every writer who wasn't Drake or Morrison has heaped on them.

The only WTFish things about this list are Watchmen being considered a team, although I kind of buy the arguement, and (for my money) the absense of Planetary.

yeah, i wish Planetary could have made it too...but there are tons of teams that i would've loved to have seen on this list that didn't make the cut. and i honestly can't think of who on this list i would sacrifice to put any one of them on here (well, maybe Suicide Squad...but i don't know much about them, so it's more a case of ignorance than personal taste).

BullyDawg
Feb 22, 2005, 07:15 pm
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one that was surprised to see the LSH left off. Since I got this started, let me see if I can make an argument for them based on your own description of what went into the choices

"But what makes a great team? Is it simply mathematical, the cumulative greatness of its individual members? Perhaps that is part of it."

By definition, LSH has members with single powers gathered together to fight together forming a team greater than the individual parts.

"But there is something more that raises a team above a mere collection of people gathered together in the same place. Relationships. The cornerstone of great drama. Watching people work together, fight together, live together...even die together."

None of the teams chosen can even touch the Legion in this area. Relationships are the Legion's forte. Marriages of team members, children born became twists in and of themselves. Who could forget the idea that a child of Saturn Girl and Lightning Lad would have mental lightning and become Validus. (An idea that was suggested by the readers in the letters page of the comic, by the way!).

Regardless of what makes them great, the message they convey is clear: by putting aside our differences and working together for the greater good, we can make this world a truly finer place. Or at the very least save it from extraterrestrial monstrosities. Ladies and gentlemen, we present for you now...the ten greatest teams in 70 years of DC's history!

Again, this is in the Legion's wheelhouse. The whole idea behind founding the team was to take representatives from a vast array of worlds and show the United Planets that they could work together.

If it's not obvious, I got my start reading the Legion. I'm sure there are a lot of others out there that can say the same thing. At the very least you guys have laid the groundwork for one hell of a discussion. Thanks so much for the work and I look forward to the responses.

BD

Al Harahap
Feb 22, 2005, 07:52 pm
When I asked for justification regarding the selection of Halo Inc, I was really asking for an explanation as to why this team is more deserving than Legion. Yes, I know, that was an impossible thing to ask, but hey, we can be impossible at times, eh? :)

Of course it's going to be impossible if you've already made up your mind that the Legion is more deserving than Halo Inc., no matter how many of us try to explain. Vis-a-vis, you haven't given me an explanation as to why Legion is more deserving than Halo Inc. either. To me, that's an impossible thing to ask too. I guess it's all about perspective. ;)

I can't speak for the others, but the Legion was just slightly out of consideration for me. Sure, I have strong emotional attachments to them, even more than some teams on the list. I grew up with the Silver Age Legion and even had their membership memorised. I LOVE Giffen's dark post-Legion Legion, which for me is one of the best things that happened not only in the DCU, but the whole of comicdom. And the first continuity reboot was both narratively and visually fresh for me. But if I'm going in with a critical eye, I really don't see them ahead of any on the list. It's not just the whole reboot, re-reboot, continuity mess. JSA does large diverse membership better and the Titans take the cake for teen angst. All that, combined with its ongoing struggle to find identity is what makes it just outside of the cut. I'm sure it would've made top 20.

Meanwhile, here we have the team from Wildcats who, okay, isn't around 50 years old, but reinvents the superhero genre for its own purposes with a relevant globalist and commercial awareness, and deconstructs the types and the whole notion of what it is being a team. It's not just about being innovative, of course. If that were the case, Dial H for H-E-R-O would've made our characters list. But this innovation, I feel (and I'm sure others since the team made the cut), was done exceedingly well.

Thank you all for reading. I'm looking forward to more of these lists. Perhaps a "10 Best Super-Pets?" (And Krypto better be numero uno!!!)

And thank you for reading. That topic, btw, is one I've considered for a while to suggest for our ComiX-Ten column, so who knows... :yeah:

Now that's more like it.
Brilliant stuff from begining to end, even the interestingly 'perverse' choices like Halo and the Suicide Squad.

Thanks. :cheers:

Of course it would have been nice to see the Doom Patrol on there, but the two stellar runs for that team probably have to be balanced out by the many excruciating indignities that pretty much every writer who wasn't Drake or Morrison has heaped on them.

Yeah, I would've loved to have seen either classic or Morrison Doom Patrol on the list, but unfortunately, we went for holistic consideration instead of separate runs. Otherwise -- and we did discuss this for months -- I'm pretty sure both the Giffen Legion and Morrison Doom Patrol would've made the list.

monsterx
Feb 22, 2005, 09:56 pm
No Legion?? BOP & Halo (not Wild C.A.T.'s?) make the list but not the kids from the future? Man what a sorry thing to do... Not include the L.S.H.

Jordan T. Maxwell
Feb 22, 2005, 10:46 pm
well, i don't think we'd even have considered the WildC.A.T.s over Halo, for a couple of reasons. for one, DC has never published the original C.A.T.s...that was all done under the Image banner. and two, what basically amounted to a second rate X-Men does not outdo an incredibly original an innovative concept of corporate superheroics.

as for the Legion...i think we've explained our position clearly enough on why they didn't make the list.

Raptor
Feb 24, 2005, 12:54 am
This is the problem with lists of the "greatest" anything. To me, the Titans at #9 is laughable. As is the inclusion of Halo, Inc. and the Invisibles. Great in their own series, but better than the Titans, Birds Of Prey, and the Suicide Squad in terms of legacy, impact, and survival?

Jon Hancock
Feb 24, 2005, 12:57 am
incredibly original? Maxwell Lord would have something to say about that ;)

raul grau
Feb 24, 2005, 01:33 am
This is the problem with lists of the "greatest" anything. To me, the Titans at #9 is laughable. As is the inclusion of Halo, Inc. and the Invisibles. Great in their own series, but better than the Titans, Birds Of Prey, and the Suicide Squad in terms of legacy, impact, and survival?
I can understand your claim that the Titans possess the three qualities you mentioned, but how do you relate legacy, impact, and survivability to the Birds of Prey and the Squad? Like Halo and the Invisibles, they exist(ed) mainly only in their own series, and the Suicide Squad faded away with the end of their book, just like the Invisibles and Halo. Personally, I prefer the Squad to most of the other teams here, but you cannot discount the others just because they are more recent creations.

incredibly original? Maxwell Lord would have something to say about that ;)
Jon, I love the Giffen League, but if they are identical to Halo, then Superman and Batman are fraternal twins. ;)

- Raul

krypt0nian
Feb 24, 2005, 01:57 pm
Any list without the Legion is unthinkable.

Sorry but those Wildstorm teams cannot hold a candle.

Jordan T. Maxwell
Feb 24, 2005, 06:17 pm
This is the problem with lists of the "greatest" anything. To me, the Titans at #9 is laughable. As is the inclusion of Halo, Inc. and the Invisibles. Great in their own series, but better than the Titans, Birds Of Prey, and the Suicide Squad in terms of legacy, impact, and survival?

well, how's that Suicide Squad series doing presently? and the Titans have been through some truly crap incarnations, so that definitely dilutes their legacy and impact. and Birds of Prey is so new, it's hard to say what their legacy is going to be (though i hope it's great). The Invisibles on the other hand are still popular years after they ended, and only ended because the creator had told the story he wanted to tell...like Sandman and Preacher. As for impact and legacy...considering they inspired the most successful science fiction franchise in years, i'd say it's pretty great. and Halo Inc. has just as much right as any other team, with an all new take on the team concept, particularly being born out of something so cliched and traditional as the WildC.A.T.s.

incredibly original? Maxwell Lord would have something to say about that ;)

oh, i'm sorry, did Maxwell Lord have the marketing of a battery as his central strategy to change the world? did he try to avoid traditional confrontational violence and conflict in favor of unconventional problem solving and ways of thinking? a superhero team run by a corporation is quite a bit different from a corporation as a superhero.

Any list without the Legion is unthinkable.

Sorry but those Wildstorm teams cannot hold a candle.

they can. they did. they do. they're here, Legion isn't. deal with it.

Jon Hancock
Feb 25, 2005, 08:51 pm
I was only messing :P I think this is the one list that would have benefitted from being top 20. I think that a lot of positions would change if we voted for more teams. But hey ho :) I'm happy as larry with the event and each column. Plus I can't complain because Jordan will eat me for being an absent fool.

Jordan T. Maxwell
Feb 26, 2005, 04:54 am
dude...you may have effed up a bit and dropped the ball on the Titans entry, but never...NEVER...put the mental image of me eating you in my head EVER again. :P

tormented_spawn
Feb 26, 2005, 11:46 pm
Nice of you guys to mention Halo, Birds of Prey and of course The Invisibles, even if it means getting gutted by Legion and Outsiders fans.

AdamH
Mar 3, 2005, 03:03 pm
Personally, I think Young Justice should have been up there somewhere (but I'm biased).

Oh well, I guess I'll have to be happy that Teen Titans got a slot.

tormented_spawn
Mar 6, 2005, 10:12 am
Thanks for reminding me. Add Young Justice to my list on what I said on my previous post so it's...

"Nice of you guys to mention Halo, Birds of Prey and of course The Invisibles even if it means getting gutted by Legion, Outsiders and Young Justice fans."

What? What are you looking at? :look: