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raul grau
Mar 21, 2006, 03:00 am
<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/comixfanpresents.gif" align=left border=0 hspace=10 alt="Comixfan Presents logo">The Top Ten Alien Races

By: Nick Costanzo, Raul Grau, Jon Hancock, Jordan T. Maxwell, Gary Miller
Editors: Raul Grau, Jordan T. Maxwell

For more than a century, alien life forms have been a regular ingredient in our literary diet, and nowhere is that more apparent than the weekly doses of sequential fiction that comic book fans ingest. Of course, Comixfan has already examined The Top 10 Extraterrestrials (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=36789) in all their otherworldly glory, but behind every noteworthy alien are a few billion relatives who happen to share the same basic appearance. Of course, alien races in the funny papers were not always the stars of the show… the Jovian metal men and the Stone Men of Saturn gave no indication of the empire building to come.

From Daxamites to Dakkamites, from Saturnians to Saurians, and even from green shapeshifting aliens to red shapeshifting aliens, there are more races in the cosmos than there are stars that have been Sun-Eaten… but if every pair of neighboring worlds with a petty squabble feel worthy of a multi-part War, how can you determine which alien races are truly the best? The staff of Comixfan were willing to rocket through decades of extraterrestrial entities, just to crash land with their selections for the top spots. Here are the ten races who never managed to force all beings under their sway, but force readers to follow their every adventure.

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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10aliens/Uatutn.jpg" align=left hspace=10 alt="Uatu"></a>#10 Watchers

First Appearance: Fantastic Four #13 (Marvel)
Created by: Stan Lee and Jack Kirby

Intergalactic Voyeurs. The Watchers are an ancient race whose very existence has become intertwined with the act of... well, watching. Individual Watchers are assigned individual worlds to observe (individually, of course), tasked with learning all there is to know about the inhabitants they spy upon, but with the stipulation that they may never interfere. Imagine spending your nearly immortal lifespan staring across the emptiness of space at an infant race, recording their every triumph and tragedy, yet morally bound to never be a good neighbor and introduce yourself, or even politely ask them to not destroy themselves. Humanity is obsessed with interfering, with sharing our point of view with anyone who will listen, but the Watchers are a race obsessed with the purity of knowledge, a universe proceeding at its own pace, uncorrupted by their direct actions. Bald heads and oversized eyes aside, the Watchers could not be more alien.

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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10aliens/guardiansoftheuniverse.jpg" hspace=10 align=left alt="Oans">#9 Oans

First Appearance: Green Lantern v.2 #1 (DC)
Created by: Gil Kane and John Broome

When you consider aliens in modern culture, they're usually green or reptilian, and almost always have some sort of deadly intention. Rarely was there a pulp novel or B-movie about an alien race that tried to look after everything. And yet, that's precisely what the Oans set out to do. Based on the planet Oa in the centre of the known universe (most of the time), these blue-skinned, red-robed midgets (What? I forgot to mention the midget factor? Now you see another reason for their addition) took upon themselves the responsibility of protecting every single being in the universe. A tall task some would say. But these little guys not only had giant ambitions and huge egos, they also had a penchant for green jewelry. Forming the Green Lantern Corps and proving longer lasting than any other intergalactic police force, the Oans' contribution to comics can be seen in the continued popularity of Green Lantern. The Oans aren't warriors, yet they're consistently arrogant and grandiose. But, most importantly, they're the most altruistic aliens that the comics world will probably ever see… and they're midgets.

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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10aliens/LadyZannah.jpg" hspace=10 align=left alt="Zealot">#8 Kherubim

First Appearance: WildC.A.T.S #1 (Image)
Created by: Jim Lee and Brandon Choi

For centuries and across galaxies, the Kherubim were defined by their ongoing war with the sinister Daemonites. It was a rather simple conflict. No real clashing ideologies or interests. The Kherubim were good and noble, while the Daemonites were evil and menacing. That's pretty much it, a primal struggle between good and evil that has gone on for so long that no one could accurately tell you what either side was really fighting for anymore. Just "they're evil and we're good and that's all the justification we need." Which given the current global landscape is rather prescient for a ‘90s comic book. So naturally when members of both races crash landed here on Earth millennia ago, they carried on their battles...influencing the history and mythology of mankind...because that's all they knew how to do. To this end, Lord Emp formed a team mostly consisting of human/Kherubim hybrids to combat the Daemonite menace. On one mission, they were sent "home" to Khera itself, only to find that the war had long since ended. Their reason for being had been negated before the team itself had even been formed. And the simplistic dynamic that they had been led to believe was disproven as well, as the Kherubim proved far less angelic than their pseudo-namesakes. The culture the CATS had been fighting alongside was one of conquest, corruption, enslavement, and disenfranchisement. So what do you fight for when your ideals have been crushed? When your cause has vanished? The Kherubim journey from escapist simplicity into deeper ambiguity is one that lends great depth to an otherwise standard superhero convention, and one that reflects on our own world more and more each day.

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<img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/headshots/dc/martianmanhunter.jpg" hspace=10 align=left alt="J'onn J'onzz">#7 Martians

First Appearance: Detective Comics #225 (DC)
Created by: Joseph Samachson and Joe Certa

What it means, exactly, to be a Martian these days is a tricky question. If you are anything like the JLA’s beloved J’onn J’onzz (a.k.a. the Martian Manhunter), then you were a green, peace-loving, artist type, who was probably wiped out by a plague a couple millennia ago. Unless, of course, you are like a member of the Hyperclan, in which case you’re a White Martian who is ALMOST as tough as the Martian Manhunter, your race isn’t dead, and you’d absolutely love to take over Earth. Then again, if you were an ancient Martian, then you’re a flaming mass of destruction who reproduces asexually and wants to kill everything that moves. Regardless, you represent a frighteningly powerful species, with full control over your atomic structure, cosmic-level telepathy, Superman-level strength and heat vision, and the ability to laugh in the face of matter conservation as you alter your body’s density. In a way, it’s a good thing that most of the species died before humanity was out of the Stone Age. After all, with Martians around, who needs the Justice League…or humanity, for that matter? Still, though the race has a confusing history at best, it has also produced the most loyal and steadfast member that the Justice League has ever known. For that reason alone, they deserve a place on this list.

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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10aliens/wildcats_covert_action_23.jpg" hspace=10 align=left alt="Voodoo">#6 Daemonites

First Appearance: WildC.A.T.S #1 (Image)
Created by: Jim Lee and Brandon Choi

Take two parts Alien, sprinkle liberally with John Carpenter's Thing, add just a dash of Doctor Doom, and you have the G'aold of Stargate fame... erase the Egyptian motif, and you have the Daemonites. A race of shape-shifting, body-snatching lizard people, with technology far beyond humanity and a penchant for galactic domination, the Daemonites were the perfect foil for the equally one-dimensional WildC.A.T.s... battling pure, unrepentant evil makes the heroes seem all the more heroic, and killing is not murder as long as the victims are not human, so the C.A.T.s land on their feet morally as well. The status quo kept quoing, and the two sides kept clashing, until the C.A.T.s took a day trip to Khera, seat of the Kherubim empire and internment camp for the scions of Daemon. The Daemonites had long since lost their war, and were left a beaten, disgraced people, relegated to squalor, existing only under the boot heel of their ancient enemies. It seems that evil is only in the eye of the beholder, and you can feel sympathy for the devil... which sadly makes it much less fun to watch them get squished.

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<img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/headshots/brood.jpg" hspace=10 align=left alt="Brood">#5 Brood

First Appearance: Uncanny X-Men #155 (Marvel)
Created by: Chris Claremont and Dave Cockrum

A few short years after nobody could hear Sigourney Weaver scream in space (not to mention John Hurt's really bad case of indigestion), we were introduced to a rather similar extraterrestrial race in the pages of Uncanny X-Men. The Brood were the best kind of space villain. Totally parasitic, malevolent to the core with no redeeming features, utterly inhuman and cruel, and completely lacking in individual personality. Which, of course, means that it's totally okay to kill them. And yet, some of the X-Men still found a moral quagmire in having to take them out (except for Wolverine, but that's because he's the best there is at...something, I forget what exactly), even though these sleazoids had already tried to kill them, assisted in an intergalactic coup, killed countless worlds, enslaved a race of gentle space whales (I guess they'd never seen Star Trek IV), and impregnated the entire team with their hatchlings. Therein lies the greatest appeal of the Brood. Much like the original Alien movie, the danger they present is not of an oncoming invasion, but a psychological menace. Only instead of hiding in air ducts or popping out of your chest, they grow inside of you. They take you over. They BECOME you. Watching the X-Men (or other mutants, evangelicals, Ghost Rider, etc.) cope with the evil growing within, the notion of (and in some cases, desire for) their own demise made for incredibly compelling storytelling. And then watching them overcome that and kick some alien butt was equally gratifying. If you'll pardon the pun, it really is the best of both worlds.

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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10aliens/supermantn.jpg" hspace=10 align=left hspace=10 alt="Superman">#4 Kryptonians

First Appearance: Action Comics #1 (DC)
Created by: Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster
Reimagined by: John Byrne

Every time Superman makes a list, I struggle to explain why. Well, this time it's not Superman. Krypton and its populace were thriving, up until about a year before Superman's birth. The culture that gave Earth its greatest and most iconic hero were emotionless scientists who procreated through cloning. Distrustful of anything different, their arrogance led to their destruction. The Kryptonians are also guilty of killing their finest son. Doomsday, the ultimate killing machine, would come from this race, devoid of morals or emotion. Kryptonian society is like an abusive upbringing. The ones that fly the nest rebel and become great heroes. Even the dogs (and horses). Kryptonians are the most well known of comic book races, and, short of Star Wars and Star Trek, most other forms of fiction as well. They parallel the cold logic of the Vulcans, and yet the members who achieve fame do nothing to reflect their race's history and culture. Kryptonians may be famous, but they're certainly not easy to understand.

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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10aliens/ANNSKRL001004.jpg" hspace=10 align=left alt="Super Skrull">#3 Skrulls

First Appearance: Fantastic Four #2 (Marvel)
Created by: Stan Lee and Jack Kirby

The very first extraterrestrials in the Marvel Age of Comics, the Skrulls owe their roots to John W. Campbell Jr.'s 1938 short story Who Goes There? and Robert Heinlein's oft-copied 1951 novel about alien invaders, The Puppet Masters. Having created the Blue Area of the Moon in their early spacefaring careers, the Skrulls staged games between the alien Cotati and the Kree which ultimately backfired, the latter stealing their technology, and beginning millennia of war. Many Skrulls have made their way to Earth in recent years, first encountering the Fantastic Four, which led to the creation of Kl'rt, the "Super-Skrull" who possesses the powers of all four members. They've been members of the Squadron Supreme, and posed as Alicia Masters and Wolverine. Stranger still, Reed Richards once hypnotized some Skrulls into shapeshifting into ordinary cows, which then produced milk, and people drank it, and....egad, I can't go on! The Skrull race is not totally malevolent--Skrull General Zedrao awarded the Kree Captain Mar-Vell with the Royal Skrull Medal of Valor in the hour of his death. And lest ye forget, the Skrulls are known in the Ultimate universe as the Chitauri, and in Marvel classic lore, they're also the race that spawned Rom's enemies, the deadly Dire Wraiths! If nothing else, forty-plus years in comics proves that you can take their shapeshifting powers away, but you can't keep the Skrulls down for long.

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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10aliens/cm3.jpg" align=left hspace=10 alt="Captain Marvel">#2 Kree

First Appearance: Fantastic Four #65 (Marvel)
Created by: Stan Lee and Jack Kirby

For an evolutionary dead-end, the militaristic humanoid race known as the Kree (available in both pink and blue-skinned varieties!) sure shows a lot of staying power. These aliens have had a formidable presence throughout history. Since stealing technology from the then-peaceful Skrulls several millennia ago, and unwittingly turning them into the treacherous people they've become, the Kree have done quite a bit with that tech. They built a city on Earth's Moon, and created the subspecies known as the Inhumans, who themselves have become Marvel mainstays. Their wars with the shapeshifting Skrulls and the Shi'ar are the stuff of comic legend. Let's remember too that one of their own soldiers, Mar-Vell, went renegade while on a mission to Earth, becoming perhaps one of the greatest cosmic superheroes ever, and spawning his own legacy. And don't forget the villainous types, who are perhaps more notable than the good guy(s): the Supreme Intelligence, the Kree's foremost military minds in one form, has had his share of schemes foiled by the mighty Avengers, and his chief enforcer, Ronan the Accuser, has proven more than the equal of Earth's heroes. A few years ago, the Supreme Intelligence used the Forever Crystal to bring some Kree out of their evolutionary dead-end, spawning the more hideous Ruul. The legacies of the Kree are so varied--Ms. Marvel, the Priests of Pama, Ultra-Girl, Marvel Boy, even the Young Avenger, Hulkling--and their military exploits so renowned/feared throughout the Marvel Universe, that it should come as no surprise that they are among the most popular alien races.

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<img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/headshots/lilandra.jpg" hspace=10 align=left alt="Lilandra">#1 Shi'ar

First Appearance: Uncanny X-Men #97 (Marvel)
Created by: Chris Claremont and Dave Cockrum

Where space opera meets soap opera, we have… the Shi'ar. An avian race who ruled an empire spanning galaxies, their introduction was through their royal family, the Neramanis. Imagine the worst possible sibling rivalry in history, set it against the backdrop of the entire cosmos, and you start to get an idea of the issues this family has. D’Ken’s doomed quest for power, Deathbird’s Byzantine conspiracies and coups, Lilandra’s alternating role as regent and rebel, off set with the occasional bout of gladiatorial combat or minor act of genocide. And, of course, there’s a love story. Lilandra and Xavier, bound together as kindred spirits, separated by oceans of space. So, as you might expect, it ends with his evil twin sister possessing his body, and psychically forcing the entire Empire into fiery death and destruction. Kind of gives a whole new meaning to “star-cross’d love.” Heck, with all the treachery, usurpation, rebellion, war, slavery, and eventual decay and ruin, it's like watching the blooper reel for the Roman Empire, with the Legion of Superheroes playing the Centurions. Yet that remains one of the most fascinating things about this particular race. Where most alien races come across as great warriors or scientists, the Shi'ar are politicians, more accustomed to maneuvering and manipulation than anything else. There may not be any smoke-filled rooms aboard their star cruisers, but the machinations, pomp, and power plays are as entertaining as the interpersonal relationships. They were also pivotal in moving the X-Men into a new era of popularity, pushing them further into the realm of science fiction, so that we could ignore all that pesky social commentary, and just enjoy what we all came for: space ships, alien princesses, and big ass explosions.

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So there you have the Top 10 Alien Races, those gatherings of extraterrestrial beings with otherworldly appeal, and out-of-this-world exploits that left readers wishing upon a star for more. Every alien is part of a race… even Last Sons and Daughters… but not every race moves beyond their uniform look to become something unique. Of course, the denizens of the cosmic are just the first stop on our Cosmic tour, so stay tuned to Comixfan throughout the month of March to continue your intergalactic journey, and keep your eyes peeled for our other Cosmic offerings (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=38059).

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Brood, Kherubim, Shi'ar: Jordan T. Maxwell
Daemonites, Watchers: Raul Grau
Kryptonians, Oans: Jon Hancock
Kree, Skrulls: Gary Miller
Martians: Nick Costanzo
Contributors: Will Carper, Tom Connolley, Anthony Devlin, Robert Gill, James Groves, Patrick James, Stephanie Kay, Wil Kitchenmaster, Alan Lynch, Magic Rabbit, Janne Pietikainen, Omar A. Safi, Tom Toner
Image Assistance: Zachary J. Morrison, Greg Reeves

The opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the writers involved, and are not reflective of Comixfan or its other staff in general.

Robb Welch
Mar 21, 2006, 05:41 am
Shi'ar?? First off Skrull are much cooler aliens than Kree ever will be. infact one of the only interesting things ABOUT the Kree is that they are INVOLVED with the skrull.

Beyond that, even the Skrull's dont deserve to be at 3.
And they kick ass!
Has anyone EVER eaten a burger made of Shi'ar?? NO!
McSkrullwich all the way!

Oh and stuff from the original Wildcats? I checked the date of this post and nope... its not 1993.

Brood beat out Gaurdians and Watchers?

DIDINT YOU PEOPLE HAVE BOBBLE HEADS AS KIDS!???!??

Jordan T. Maxwell
Mar 21, 2006, 06:08 am
Oh and stuff from the original Wildcats? I checked the date of this post and nope... its not 1993.

fortunately, Alan Moore's work is timeless. :P

Brood beat out Gaurdians and Watchers?

DIDINT YOU PEOPLE HAVE BOBBLE HEADS AS KIDS!???!??

no. as you pointed out, it's not 1993. ;)

kidwithnoname
Mar 21, 2006, 11:22 am
I know this is primarly an "X-Men" site, but does anyone honestly think the Shi'Ar should be rated #01? I think that's showing waaay too much of an x-bias!

If we're talking purely Marvel here, shouldn't the Skrulls or the Kree rightfully be at the number #01 spot!? I mean, the Skrulls have given us everything from Super-Skrulls to Paibok to Cadre K (well, maybe not that one!) to Lyja to Skull burgers! They deserve the top spot!

The Kree has given us Marvel Boy, Captain Marvel, the Supreme Intelligence, Ronan the Accuser, Genis-Vell, Silver Surfer (from an offshoot Kree race), Ms. Marvel, Korath the Pursuer, Supremor, etc.

What have the Shi'Ar ever given us? A bunch of Legion analogues? Sure, D'Ken, Deathbird and Lilandra and all good (heck, so's Gladiator - despite being little more than Marvel's 616 answer to Superman), but they don't deserve the top spot!

Actually, that said, none of these groups really deserve the top spot! There's a great number of alien races out there, far more deserving of a mention than this bunch! What about the Daleks? The Cylons? The Jawas? The Wookies? The Ewoks?

Okay, perhaps we're only talking about comic books here, but in that case, where's the Saiyans? They've done more with the Kryptonian archetype than any Kryptonia has ever done with it!

Oh well, to each his own I guess.

kidwithnoname :)

Robb Welch
Mar 21, 2006, 03:25 pm
no. as you pointed out, it's not 1993. ;)
Fortunately, A childhood is timeless.

Also, Tell that to 1963

RingoStarr
Mar 21, 2006, 04:30 pm
Kryptonians should be much fartherdown the list...their charcters with a lot of history number only one.

Jon Hancock
Mar 21, 2006, 04:44 pm
Apart from Doomsday, Supergirl, Superboy, Krypto, the kryptonian myths of Nightwing and Red hawk.

Oh and the fact that they are the most well known alien race in popular culture outside of the solar system and Star Trek/Wars (and i'd say it's close between Star Wars. What races are there in that anyways that your average non geek would reel off?)

Kid, as an avid Marvel hater I voted for the Shiar near the top if not top because I think they encapsulate a lot of the required elements. They're original, memorable, seperate as a race regardless of individual members and have a very alien social structure and life style. I'd also say that at least half of the staffers who voted on this read little if any X titles and as a staff, we're not an X-Men heavy site. If anything we're a Vertigo heavy site.

James Groves
Mar 21, 2006, 06:22 pm
I do like me some White Martians, too.

gnosis
Mar 21, 2006, 07:07 pm
Was expecting to see Kryptonians int he number one slot, so it was a present surprise to see the Shi'Ar there. Can't say I agree with them being number one, but at the same time I can't think of anyone else who deserves that slot (maybe the Kree, Skrulls and Shi'Ar could have tied for first?). And major kudos to a mention of the skrull cows. That was actually my guess for what Hulkling's origin was going to turn out to be connected to (YA had already referenced some obscure books like The Truth and the Crew so why not that). Guess I'm sort of happy I was wrong though.

Gary Miller
Mar 21, 2006, 07:44 pm
And major kudos to a mention of the skrull cows.
Thankyew. :) What's worse....those same cows were later ground into hamburger....er...Skrull-burger....and thence came the Skrull Kill Krew. :)

~G

Firelion
Mar 21, 2006, 10:55 pm
Apart from Doomsday, Supergirl, Superboy, Krypto, the kryptonian myths of Nightwing and Red hawk.
Flamebird, you mean?

tyran80
Mar 21, 2006, 10:57 pm
And hey, no mention of the skrull cameo in Star Wars Episode II? Ah well, you've got to love those green blobs of dough...

Phasmal
Mar 21, 2006, 11:40 pm
5 out of 10. Go Marvel.

Kryptonians are remembered more for their not being around anymore than their contributions or stories. Shoula been lower.

Two admittedly one-dimensional races on the list? And from the same book? Are there really that few alien races?

If the whole "Brood egg transforming your body" thing is cool, the Phalanx should have placed on the list. Talk about a fate worse than death.

Jordan T. Maxwell
Mar 21, 2006, 11:56 pm
Two admittedly one-dimensional races on the list? And from the same book? Are there really that few alien races?

the point was that they shuffled off their 1-D beginnings to become something much more interesting (though i personally still don't get how the Daemonites rank higher than the Kherubim). ;)

If the whole "Brood egg transforming your body" thing is cool, the Phalanx should have placed on the list. Talk about a fate worse than death.

yeah, the Borg...er, i mean the Phalanx were really interesting. and original. :P but the only story that really dealt with them as an independent alien race was pretty lame (particularly since they were supposed to have been spawned from the Technarchy of Warlock and Magus...which WAS nominated, but didn't make the cut)

MrGreen
Mar 22, 2006, 12:48 am
I usually try to avoid the opinion pieces where people rate their favorite comics or say which series is better than another but this was a good Top Ten. The only choice I really disagreed with was the Kryptonians being so high on the list.

These are the Top Tens I hope to never see:
Top Ten Strongest, Fasterst, Smartest, or Best Fighters
Top Ten Coolest Heroes
Top Ten Coolest Villains
Top Ten Best Publishing Companies
Top Ten Best Sidekicks
Top Ten Best Teams

Seth Kim
Mar 22, 2006, 01:10 am
Great job guys, I wouldn't have been able to write an entry for the life of me.

I know this is primarly an "X-Men" site, but does anyone honestly think the Shi'Ar should be rated #01? I think that's showing waaay too much of an x-bias!

I can't help but smile. :)

Jordan T. Maxwell
Mar 22, 2006, 04:24 am
I usually try to avoid the opinion pieces where people rate their favorite comics or say which series is better than another but this was a good Top Ten. The only choice I really disagreed with was the Kryptonians being so high on the list.

These are the Top Tens I hope to never see:
Top Ten Strongest, Fasterst, Smartest, or Best Fighters
Top Ten Coolest Heroes
Top Ten Coolest Villains
Top Ten Best Publishing Companies
Top Ten Best Sidekicks
Top Ten Best Teams

well, we DID already have the Top 10 DC Teams during the 70th anniversary event we did a while back. :D

Anthony Devlin
Mar 22, 2006, 08:35 am
I can't help but smile. :)

Made me chuckle as well. :P

Robb Welch
Mar 22, 2006, 10:32 am
Nice to know the staff can be so condescending these days.

Anthony Devlin
Mar 22, 2006, 10:44 am
Nice to know the staff can be so condescending these days.

Not as much as some of the posters.

Jordan T. Maxwell
Mar 22, 2006, 11:12 am
Nice to know the staff can be so condescending these days.

um...what exactly was so condescending? did i miss a memo or something?

kidwithnoname
Mar 22, 2006, 11:49 am
[COLOR=Red][FONT=Arial]I can't help but smile. :)
Made me chuckle as well. :P

Nice to know the staff can be so condescending these days.
Not as much as some of the posters.

Okaaay...

I am to assume my comment was found to be somewhat laughable then? Odd, as the site is "comixfan/xfan", and is run by uber-X-fan Eric Moreels. Oh, not to mention that logo with Jean Grey which reads "X-World comics" running alongside the main page.

Yes, yes, quite silly of me to have mistaken this site for having somewhat of an X-bias. It's very obviously a Vertigo-site. How silly of me. :rolleyes:

I'm also glad that I've managed to make both Seth and Anthony smile. :dance: :rolleyes:

The simple fact of the matter is that, outwith X-continuity, who really cares about the Shi'Ar? As I adressed before, the various Star Wars races (and Star Trek, now that it's been brought up) are far higher in popularity than the Shi'Ar could ever hope to be. Fair enough, it could be contended that this an opinion poll, and not a popularity contests, but I would still feel that the Shi'Ar are far from deserving (and would also contend that their inclusion and ranking may just have something to do with their affiliation to X-lore).

Okay, if we're not talking about the fairly generic Imperial Guard (whom I do like, but accept for what they are - LOSH in the Marvel 616), then we have what going for them? Lilandra? D'Ken? Deathbird? Cerise?

Okay, I'll conceed the fact that I've enjoyed quite a few stories with them featured in a central role (Phoenix/Dark Phoenix Sagas, Operation: Galactic Storm, the Claremont/Lee Shi'Ar story, the Lobdell/Joe Mad Phalanx story, Morrison's Imperial, etc.), but a lot of those stories were x-centric affairs, and the Shi'Ar generally came off as ineffectual buffoons.

I mean, D'Ken was a madman, and Lilandra's barely been able to keep ahold of her throne since she's overthrown her brother! The only redeeming member of the Royal Family is Deathbird, and she doesn't even have a real name anymore as she's considered a disgrace!

I like the fact that they're descended from avian, rather than mammilian, hertiage, but what makes them any more special than the Badoon?

I mean, it's not like the Shi'Ar play a big role in the Marvel Universe either! Relativley speaking, we see more in the way of Skrulls and Kree (and rightfuly so)! The Shi'Ar have a large Empire, but it's constantly in ruin, and there's been little to no advancement in the last however many years!

The only interesting thing element about the Shi'Ar is the Imperial Guard, and most of them are from worlds incorporated into the larger Shi'Ar Empire. I don't know about you folks, but I'd be pissed if I was Gladiator and labelled as a "Shi'Ar". It's the equivalent of me (a Scotsman), being branded an "Englishman" (based on the fact that my country has been encorporated into their larger Empire).

To be honest, they're just a somewhat bland and forgetable entry. If you're not an x-fan, I doubt the Shi'Ar matter a damn to you. Number #01 on the "Top Ten Alien Races"? Certainly not.

As it has become apparent, this poll is primarily for comic book characters (hence the reason Star Wars/Trek characters and the like have been omitted).

With that said, I can understand the relative lack of diversification within this list. I would, however, like to point out that, in this day and age, the likes of the Saiyans (Dragonball Manga) should have, perhaps, been included on this list.

I would've liked to have seen races such as the Phalanx, Viltrumites, New Gods, Popupians, Thanagarians, Badoon, Celestials and suchlike to have been included, but I can understand the reasons for not doing so.

Anyway, that's all just my opinion. Hope there are a few gems in there for people to have a nice little chuckle about. How clever you must feel. :yawn:

kidwithnoname :)

Jordan T. Maxwell
Mar 22, 2006, 12:45 pm
Okaaay...

I am to assume my comment was found to be somewhat laughable then? Odd, as the site is "comixfan/xfan", and is run by uber-X-fan Eric Moreels. Oh, not to mention that logo with Jean Grey which reads "X-World comics" running alongside the main page.

Yes, yes, quite silly of me to have mistaken this site for having somewhat of an X-bias. It's very obviously a Vertigo-site. How silly of me. :rolleyes:

yes, our origins were as an X-Men fan site. but we've long since expanded our coverage. and the bias of most of the users on these boards does not extend to the staff, many of whom don't even read X-Men (or have stopped in recent years). that's the source of the irony. that we DON'T have any kind of bias. because we're NOT X-Fan anymore. because Eric DOESN'T run things around here as much as he once did. the site is for ALL comics, not just X-Men. though, yes, a majority of posters around here are hold overs from our X-Fan days so looking at the forums, one might get that impression. we talk about this a lot as a staff, so there was some humor to us in your comment. nothing more, nothing less.

as for why the Shi'ar are so deserving of that spot...well, it's by no means a scientific poll. but a diverse number of staff members nominated and voted on the list, including non X-Men fans. so the fact that they still won out the number 1 spot does say something. you're more than welcome to disagree. hell, that's what these lists are all about. but it's not like we arbitrarily chose where everyone was slotted. there was a process that took into account a wide range of tastes and opinions. and if you need some help with our reasoning behind it...well, that entry right there next to its name might serve as a handy guide. you should check it out. it's pretty well written. ;)

(oh, and thanks to Nunzio for the assist!)

kidwithnoname
Mar 22, 2006, 02:00 pm
yes, our origins were as an X-Men fan site. but we've long since expanded our coverage. and the bias of most of the users on these boards does not extend to the staff, many of whom don't even read X-Men (or have stopped in recent years). that's the source of the irony. that we DON'T have any kind of bias. because we're NOT X-Fan anymore. because Eric DOESN'T run things around here as much as he once did. the site is for ALL comics, not just X-Men. though, yes, a majority of posters around here are hold overs from our X-Fan days so looking at the forums, one might get that impression. we talk about this a lot as a staff, so there was some humor to us in your comment. nothing more, nothing less.

as for why the Shi'ar are so deserving of that spot...well, it's by no means a scientific poll. but a diverse number of staff members nominated and voted on the list, including non X-Men fans. so the fact that they still won out the number 1 spot does say something. you're more than welcome to disagree. hell, that's what these lists are all about. but it's not like we arbitrarily chose where everyone was slotted. there was a process that took into account a wide range of tastes and opinions. and if you need some help with our reasoning behind it...well, that entry right there next to its name might serve as a handy guide. you should check it out. it's pretty well written. ;)

(oh, and thanks to Nunzio for the assist!)


No, I fully understand that the reason that the entry is at the number #01 spot is due to it tallying the most votes. That's how I'd assume any group discussion would render a decision.

My feeling is that the reason the Shi'Ar has ended up at the top spot is due to somewhat of an x-bias amoungst the staff. You're telling me that's not the case, so I'm happy to accept that. You were involved in these decisions, unlike myself.

I'm simply lamenting the fact that you guys (as a group) chose them over another equally deserving race. But, as you say "I'm more than welcome to disagree".

The only thing that riled me up was having my suggestion that there may be a bias towards X-characters mocked pretty much out of hand. Unfortunatley I am not involved in staff conversations, so I would naturally fail to see the irony in my own statement, or to share in the laugh. Chuckling about it in the manner you did basically seemed as some sort of attempt to make me either look the fool for suggesting such a thing, or to basically discredit my suggestion in a somewhat self-superior manner. I take it this was not the intention then?

Whatever the case, you can see why I would make such an assesment, eh? While I have no doubt that the site has outgrown the confines of the X-books alone, there is also little doubt that the majority reading these boards and columns are (or once were) primarily X-fans.

The fact that the races chosen to be in this "Top 10" come from only three comic book publishers also makes me think that those making these decisions are somewhat limited in their reading. Could I be wrong? Sure.

Anyway, sorry if I've come off somewhat hostile or defensive. Whilst it is true that I was somewhat annoyed by the attitude displayed in response to my statement, it needn't matter. Opinions, as they say, are down to the individual.

kidwithnoname :)

Stephanie Kay
Mar 22, 2006, 02:30 pm
My feeling is that the reason the Shi'Ar has ended up at the top spot is due to somewhat of an x-bias amongst the staff. You're telling me that's not the case, so I'm happy to accept that. You were involved in these decisions, unlike myself.
There isn't an X-bias amongst the staff imo. I think if people were a bit amused (admittedly I'm more bemused), is only that some of us are in a no-win situation. In some theads there are accusations of X-hate (or Marvel-hate as a whole), and in others we are apparently keeling into the X-domination found within certain frames on the site. I don't think people are doing either consciously, or rather I'm not.

It's difficult to put any of these things in order, and it's not just down to taste but down to how someone may recieve a storyline. To me, I agree, Deathbird is the only major standout in the Shi'Ar stuff - but on the other hand, I can't say there is a much of any standout in individual character in some of the other races. They just stay races and don't develop beyond plot formation, antagonism/allies as a whole. I didn't put Shi'Ar top, but I can appreciate why they are high. And that has nothing to do with X-fandom (because I no longer read a single X-comic)

I'm simply lamenting the fact that you guys (as a group) chose them over another equally deserving race. But, as you say "I'm more than welcome to disagree".
That's cool. And I agree with the reasons you put with regards to why Shi'Ar shouldn't be top. And nice to see you mention the Saiyans elsewhere. What reasons would you give as to why Skrulls, Kree or whomever should be in there instead? (That goes to everyone...)

The fact that the races chosen to be in this "Top 10" come from only three comic book publishers also makes me think that those making these decisions are somewhat limited in their reading. Could I be wrong? Sure
Nomination lists tend to be more comprehensive in that sense - when it comes down to voting, obviously, more well known groups/characters are going to be read by more people. Hence a more likely chance of accumulating votes. I don't know if that is limited in reading - it may be a shared output on how expert you are in that field of discussion (which ironically in the past has led to accusations of being simply pretentious)
In breadth of choices then ComixTens tend to show staffers with their full personal variance I guess, because it's entirely individually compiled ^_^

Jordan T. Maxwell
Mar 22, 2006, 03:07 pm
i read a number of comics from a number of publishers. but Marvel, DC and Wildstorm do dominate the more superhero/sci-fi elements in my reading. haven't seen that many alien races in my Vertigo, Oni or (non-licensed) Dark Horse reading. ;) do i agree with every pick on this list? i can see how they're all deserving. do i agree with the ranking? not really. some i'd rank higher, some lower. some right where they are. but we try to come to as much of a consensus as possible. which is naturally going to fly in the face of many individual opinions because it's the exact opposite of an individual opinion. so some of you may disagree with the list, but would any of you even agree with one another? just a thought...

and for the record, i can't speak for Seth and Anthony directly, but knowing both of them...they were most certainly laughing at the notion of an X-bias among the staff. not at you. it was not an attempt to make you look foolish, but to kind of wink at each other...sort of an "if only they knew" type thing. inside jokes are hard to understand sometimes from the outside, so they could've been a bit clearer in their intent. but there was certainly no malice towards or mockery of you intended (they save that for me. :D)

p0int5iv3
Mar 22, 2006, 03:31 pm
Kryptonians!!! kick 'em off the list...

Phoenix_Force
Mar 22, 2006, 03:52 pm
What, no Celestials?

Anthony Devlin
Mar 22, 2006, 03:55 pm
and for the record, i can't speak for Seth and Anthony directly, but knowing both of them...they were most certainly laughing at the notion of an X-bias among the staff. not at you. it was not an attempt to make you look foolish, but to kind of wink at each other...sort of an "if only they knew" type thing. inside jokes are hard to understand sometimes from the outside, so they could've been a bit clearer in their intent. but there was certainly no malice towards or mockery of you intended (they save that for me. :D)

:LOL: true ;)

Jordan T. Maxwell
Mar 22, 2006, 04:08 pm
Kryptonians!!! kick 'em off the list...

thank you for that thoughtful and well reasoned argument. we appreciate your input.

(see, Robb? THAT was condescending...i'd like to thank point5...um...whatever, for helping me demonstrate)

:D

Tan K.
Mar 22, 2006, 04:56 pm
Yes, this used to be X-Fan, but I think it is highly unfair to call the staffers, this site, or the opinions as x-biased. If anything, they have gone waaay too independent comics for my tastes. Seriously, I think they have done a great job of moving away from the X. That doesn't mean they shouldn't recognize something from that arena. As mentioned above, in some ways, it is a no-win situation. People can read more into things if they want.

Robb Welch
Mar 22, 2006, 04:57 pm
Not as much as some of the posters.


Ohhhh, Professional to boot. ;)
thank you for that thoughtful and well reasoned argument. we appreciate your input.

(see, Robb? THAT was condescending...i'd like to thank point5...um...whatever, for helping me demonstrate)

:D
Much better. Momma always said if youre going to do it, do it right.
Give it your all. Thats all I'm asking. :)

Ryan Day
Mar 22, 2006, 05:24 pm
In fact, the official motto of the newly-relaunched Comixfan was going to be "X-Men are Poopy," but it was deemed too confrontational. It has since been altered to "X-What?", and will be appearing on T-shirts soon.

Interesting observation: Does anyone complain about bias when it leads to a conclusion they agree with?

Anyway... The Shi'ar are a pretty interesting race, and I find them generally more interesting than the plot-device Kree/Skrull business.

In what little I've read of them, the Kryptonians are a pretty interesting race. The logic/science angle is fascinating without turning them into Vulcans. Frankly, all I need to know of Krypton is in Alan Moore's For the Man Who Has Everything.

MrGreen
Mar 22, 2006, 07:52 pm
For those that complain about the Shi'ar being #1 on this list and who claim that they are only in X-Men comic books, you are mistaken. What about the Shi'ar/Kree War that was covered in Avengers and ended with the decimation of the Kree empire?

Robb Welch
Mar 22, 2006, 08:31 pm
For those that complain about the Shi'ar being #1 on this list and who claim that they are only in X-Men comic books, you are mistaken. What about the Shi'ar/Kree War that was covered in Avengers and ended with the decimation of the Kree empire?
Oh you mean the period when X-Marvel was doing new X-Things in silly X-Books such as X-Avengers that had only been dared to do before in X-Books such as X-Men?

Matter of fact, its hard to show anything from that time period without it being an example of x-bias.

Tan K.
Mar 23, 2006, 01:25 am
Oh you mean the period when X-Marvel was doing new X-Things in silly X-Books such as X-Avengers that had only been dared to do before in X-Books such as X-Men?

Matter of fact, its hard to show anything from that time period without it being an example of x-bias.

See the logic with this argument is faulty. Each one of these races are connected with some comic.

Watchers - FF
Oans - GL
Kheribum - WCats
Martians - JLA
Daemonites - WCats
Brood - XM
Kryptonians - duh....
Skrulls - This is the exception since they have been everywhere
Kree - Avengers
Shi'ar - XM

Comixfan is biased towards Wildstorm too...they have two entries as well. :rolleyes: Seriously, the list is split 50/50 between DC and Marvel as well. I doubt that was on purpose. The choices are fine IMO. Maybe a reorder here and there, but I typically disagree with the lists. Non-issue.

kidwithnoname
Mar 23, 2006, 01:36 am
That's cool. And I agree with the reasons you put with regards to why Shi'Ar shouldn't be top. And nice to see you mention the Saiyans elsewhere. What reasons would you give as to why Skrulls, Kree or whomever should be in there instead? (That goes to everyone...)

Well, the Skulls particularly, I would have to place in the top spot, due to their unique abilities (that of a whole race of shape-shifters) and their character design. I'd also place them fairly highly due to my love of various Skrull characters (Paibok, Super-Skrull, Lyja, etc). That, and I feel that their role within the larger Marvel Universe is somewhat superior to that of the Shi'Ar.

Also, Skrulls can make me laugh more than any other alien race in current fiction. Take a look at the first few pages of Doc Samson #01 to see what I mean! :LOL:

Oh, yes, and I also get to include the Dire Wraiths under the header of "Skrulls".

The Kree? Well, I'm a sucker for the Supreme Intelligence. And there is the old Operation: Galactic Storm crossover (admitedly, also featuring the Shi'Ar). I also feel they've had more of an impact on Marvel's Earth-bound heroes than any other race out there (Captain Marvel, Genis-Vell, Carol Danvers, Marvel Boy, etc). That, and I'm in love with the design of Ronan and Korath.

For those that complain about the Shi'ar being #1 on this list and who claim that they are only in X-Men comic books, you are mistaken. What about the Shi'ar/Kree War that was covered in Avengers and ended with the decimation of the Kree empire?

Well, I did mention Operation: Galactic Storm in my post (and seeing as how I'm pretty much the only one who's been making the claim that the Shi'Ar are a little too x-centric, I'm guessing you must be adressing my concerns).

kidwithnoname :)

Robb Welch
Mar 23, 2006, 02:52 am
See the logic with this argument is faulty. Each one of these races are connected with some comic.

Watchers - FF
Oans - GL
Kheribum - WCats
Martians - JLA
Daemonites - WCats
Brood - XM
Kryptonians - duh....
Skrulls - This is the exception since they have been everywhere
Kree - Avengers
Shi'ar - XM

Comixfan is biased towards Wildstorm too...they have two entries as well. :rolleyes: Seriously, the list is split 50/50 between DC and Marvel as well. I doubt that was on purpose. The choices are fine IMO. Maybe a reorder here and there, but I typically disagree with the lists. Non-issue.


Hey I'm just saying that said crossover was one of many un-deniable crossovers to help popularize non-x-comics. A trend that had a spiral effect directly into Onslaught.

Captain America
Mar 23, 2006, 12:40 pm
The Imperial Guard (or Superguardians as they seem to have been getting called since Morrison handled them in New X-Men) are all different species... I assume though they're united under the Shi'ar banner? I think each comes from a race within the empire, so I guess calling them Shi'ar is the same as calling Scottish, English, Welsh and Irish people British.

:galactus::thanos:

kidwithnoname
Mar 23, 2006, 02:27 pm
The Imperial Guard (or Superguardians as they seem to have been getting called since Morrison handled them in New X-Men) are all different species... I assume though they're united under the Shi'ar banner? I think each comes from a race within the empire, so I guess calling them Shi'ar is the same as calling Scottish, English, Welsh and Irish people British.

:galactus::thanos:

Well, not really, considering the fact that the English are still known as just that. The Shi'Ar is the race name of the alien species that Lilandra, D'Ken, Deathbird and so on belong to. Gladiator, for instance, is Strontian.

I suppose it would be the same thing if the "British Empire" were known as the "English Empire", but this is not really the case.

Anyway, it would seem that Gladiator has the same plight as we Scots. Take the Oylmpics, for instance. Whenever Scots win a medal, it's called a "British win". Whenever the English win a medal, it's an "English win". Just don't seem fair. I mean, how many Strontian victories have we heard of for poor Gladiator? :(

Oh, and the Irish aren't British. That'd be the Northern Irish, you're thinking of. ;)

kidwithnoname :)

HandofGod
Mar 23, 2006, 05:11 pm
The comment about the Phalanx being original...and sarcastically bringing up the borg...well the thing is the Borg were more influenced by the Phalanx(technet) then vice versa seeing as how Warlock, transmode virus, and Magus were introduced in the early mid 80s and the Borg in the early 90s...
so it looks like the Phalanx(Technet) are originals and the Borg the copy. So putting them as an original and Top ten aliens would have been on my list.

Jordan T. Maxwell
Mar 23, 2006, 05:24 pm
The comment about the Phalanx being original...and sarcastically bringing up the borg...well the thing is the Borg were more influenced by the Phalanx(technet) then vice versa seeing as how Warlock, transmode virus, and Magus were introduced in the early mid 80s and the Borg in the early 90s...
so it looks like the Phalanx(Technet) are originals and the Borg the copy. So putting them as an original and Top ten aliens would have been on my list.

except that the Phanlanx are NOT the Technarchy. in the Phalanx Covenant, they were originaly derived from the Technarchy by getting their samples from Warlock...or rather (sigh, i can't believe i'm actually typing this) Douglock (shudder). it was only later in a story of truly crap proportions that the Phalanx were revealed as an alien race all their own...which, um, kind of contradicts everything that's come before. but since when did X-Men in the 90s ever care about something like that? :P

and the Technarchy didn't assimilate organic matter, it consumed it. The Phalanx could take people and make them part of their collective intelligence, assimilating them. A la the Borg. Even the writers made jokes about this in the dialogue. no need to get all clenched about it. just drawing a comparison in a rather glib way.

Besides which, both Phalanx and Technarchy are kind of lame, so they wouldn't have made the list anyway. ;)

HandofGod
Mar 23, 2006, 05:26 pm
lol
well the Sh'iar are lame too I can't believe their #1...I mean who does their hair? Wolverine's Salon Stylist?

Phoenix_Force
Mar 23, 2006, 05:58 pm
What, no Celestials?

MrGreen
Mar 23, 2006, 06:08 pm
What, no Celestials?
The Celestials are not really aliens but are more of cosmic entities. We don't know where they came from, their culture, or their language. They are in the same category as Galactus, the Living Tribunal, Eternity, Death, Ego, and the In-Betweener

HandofGod
Mar 23, 2006, 06:37 pm
what about 5th dimension Imps?
Tamararians?
New Gods?
Atlantians?
Deviants?

Jordan T. Maxwell
Mar 23, 2006, 06:50 pm
lol
well the Sh'iar are lame too I can't believe their #1...I mean who does their hair? Wolverine's Salon Stylist?

that's your opinion and you're welcome to it. apparently, many of us who worked on the article disagree. :)

The Celestials are not really aliens but are more of cosmic entities. We don't know where they came from, their culture, or their language. They are in the same category as Galactus, the Living Tribunal, Eternity, Death, Ego, and the In-Betweener

exactly, they weren't even nominated.

what about 5th dimension Imps?

not aliens, they're extradimensional beings. much like the Celestials, we defined alien races as beings from other planets. other planes of existence didn't count (otherwise, we could've had angels on the list...and everyone likes angels!)

Tamararians?

i think they were nominated, but didn't have a lot of votes. i think Starfire's hot, but not enough to vote for her entire race.

New Gods?

similar boat to the Imps, Celestials, Asgardians, etc.

Atlantians?

Atlantians? as in, people from Atlantis? as in, underwater city on Earth? gee, no idea why they wouldn't make it...

Deviants?

not overly familiar, but weren't the Deviants just altered humans?

Jon Hancock
Mar 23, 2006, 07:41 pm
Tamaraneans nearly made the cut. That wasn't nearly as cruel a snub as the Thangarians though. They really are the only thing that makes me a little sad with this list. It's not the ten I'd have picked but I can understand it. I just think Watchers vs Hawk people... Hawks always win for me.

Jordan T. Maxwell
Mar 23, 2006, 08:40 pm
never been a Hawkman fan myself (though i did manage to work Thanagar into an improv show once...just seemed to fit, i guess) so the Thanagarians don't do much for me. meh.

James Groves
Mar 24, 2006, 03:35 pm
I do like the Thangarians myself. Shame they didn't make the list, but that's how it goes, I guess. I do find the Watchers to be rather boring, though. Never really connected to them or enjoyed any stories they were in, aside for a satirical take of them being peeping toms. I just like the whole Egyptian thing they have going.

Jordan T. Maxwell
Mar 24, 2006, 03:43 pm
the Watchers have an Egyptian thing going on? ;)

Ryan Day
Mar 24, 2006, 04:09 pm
never been a Hawkman fan myself (though i did manage to work Thanagar into an improv show once...just seemed to fit, i guess) so the Thanagarians don't do much for me. meh.

Read Ostrander & Truman's Hawkworld. It'll totally change your mind.

James Groves
Mar 24, 2006, 04:11 pm
the Watchers have an Egyptian thing going on? ;)

The Thangarians. :P

Read Ostrander & Truman's Hawkworld. It'll totally change your mind.

There goes another book to put on my list. :)

Jordan T. Maxwell
Mar 24, 2006, 04:37 pm
Read Ostrander & Truman's Hawkworld. It'll totally change your mind.

if i get around to it. got enough backlogged things i'm really interested in reading right now, don't need to add things to the list right now. lol

The Thangarians. :P


yeah, i know, but the way you structured that sentence made it sound like you were referring to the Watchers. eg: i mocked you for it. :D

Jon Hancock
Mar 24, 2006, 05:58 pm
eg? Don't you mean ergo? Heh, mocking the mocker :p

Jordan T. Maxwell
Mar 24, 2006, 07:07 pm
eg? Don't you mean ergo? Heh, mocking the mocker :p

yes, you really got me on using a common abbreviation for a Latin phrase. :rolleyes: what's your next trick, riding someone's ass for typing etc. rather than et cetera? :P

Jon Hancock
Mar 24, 2006, 09:30 pm
eg means for example in my language.

Janne Pietikainen
Mar 25, 2006, 08:51 am
Seriously, the list is split 50/50 between DC and Marvel as well. I doubt that was on purpose.
Indeed. There was a fair voting process (and most people seemed to have Shi'ar somewhere in their list).

Well, not really, considering the fact that the English are still known as just that. The Shi'Ar is the race name of the alien species that Lilandra, D'Ken, Deathbird and so on belong to. Gladiator, for instance, is Strontian.
Was there another name for Lilandra's race? Aerie or something?

not overly familiar, but weren't the Deviants just altered humans?
Deviants were one of the offshoot races of human created by the Celestials. The same thing as with the Eternals.

James Groves
Mar 25, 2006, 09:06 am
Read Ostrander & Truman's Hawkworld. It'll totally change your mind.

Any other books dealing with the Thangarians that you'd recommend?

Jon Hancock
Mar 25, 2006, 10:45 am
Geoff Johns' issues on the new Hawkman made me love the character again.

Ryan Day
Mar 25, 2006, 02:16 pm
Any other books dealing with the Thangarians that you'd recommend?

Basically just the Ostrander stuff: There's the original Hawkworld 3-issue mini introducing the new status quo (which is actually just Tim Truman, I believe), then a Hawkworld ongoing, which was followed by a Hawkman ongoing, which was great for the first 10-15 issues. Then Zero Hour came along and messed the whole thing up.

I've always loved the idea and visual of Hawkman - particularly the Thanagarian metal wings version - but versions other than Ostrander's usually just bore me to tears. (See also: Firestorm, Spectre)

Jordan T. Maxwell
Mar 27, 2006, 04:32 am
eg means for example in my language.

is you language Latin? ;) because e.g. is short for ergo. and the way i've always understood is "therefore," whereas "i.e." (which i'm not sure of what the Latin is for that abbreviation) means "for example."

though i don't know Latin that well myself, so i could easily have the two reversed. :D

Ryan Day
Mar 27, 2006, 10:27 am
e.g. is short for exempli gratia, which does indeed mean "for example."

i.e. is short for id est, meaning "that is."

The former is for giving examples; the latter is for clarifying a point.

ergo does indeed mean "therefore", but doesn't generally abbreviate.

James Groves
Mar 27, 2006, 02:44 pm
Basically just the Ostrander stuff: There's the original Hawkworld 3-issue mini introducing the new status quo (which is actually just Tim Truman, I believe), then a Hawkworld ongoing, which was followed by a Hawkman ongoing, which was great for the first 10-15 issues. Then Zero Hour came along and messed the whole thing up.

I've always loved the idea and visual of Hawkman - particularly the Thanagarian metal wings version - but versions other than Ostrander's usually just bore me to tears. (See also: Firestorm, Spectre)

Cheers, Ryan. I'll make sure to pick up what I can of Ostrander's Hawkman. :)

Jordan T. Maxwell
Mar 27, 2006, 03:24 pm
e.g. is short for exempli gratia, which does indeed mean "for example."

i.e. is short for id est, meaning "that is."

The former is for giving examples; the latter is for clarifying a point.

ergo does indeed mean "therefore", but doesn't generally abbreviate.

ah, okay. learned it wrong then. thanks for the clarification. :)

Jon Hancock
Mar 28, 2006, 08:47 pm
At last!!!!

Small victories are so sweet :D

Kojubat
Mar 30, 2006, 01:48 pm
The only alien race I felt earned a spot on the list that didn't make it are the Cybertronians. They have a long comic book history, especially in the UK.

Not really complaining, though - the marketing machine behind the toy line and cartoon probably didn't raise them as an option to begin with. Just surprised nobody else mentioned them.