Nick Costanzo
Oct 8, 2007, 10:21 pm
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THREAD : COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Started at Oct 12, 2006 03:10 pm by raul grau
Visit at http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=40396
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[Post 1]
Author : raul grau
Date : Oct 12, 2006 03:10 pm
Title : COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/comixfanpresents.gif" align=left border=0 hspace=10 alt="Comixfan Presents logo">The Top Ten Cosmic Characters
By: Lisa Charly, Jon Hancock, Stephanie Kay, Matt Lazorwitz, Gary Miller
Editor: Raul Grau
During Cosmic March (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=38059), Comixfan followed the road to Annihilation with interviews, anniversary specials, and analysis of the Alien Races (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=38266) and Cosmic Objects (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=38354) that litter our fictional universes. However, one aspect ignored was an exploration of the Cosmic Characters themselves, those paragons of the spaceways, dimensional crossings, and nether realms who are far beyond our mortal kin. Well, the readers requested, and we acquiesced... several months later, but it is the thought that counts.
Here is the Comixfan-compiled list of the Top Ten Cosmic Characters. As a reminder, for the purposes of this list, cosmic has been defined to include all beings and anthropomorphic entities who possess power and abilities that put the standard superfolk to shame. Regularly crossing the chasm between the living and the dead, opening your own Battleworld, or willfully breaking the fourth wall would qualify as admittance onto this list. Of course, incomprehensible power is not nearly enough to earn space among the top ten... as you shall soon see, even amongst cosmic characters, character counts.
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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10cosmicchars/swampthing.jpg" align=left hspace=10 alt="Swamp Thing"></a>#10 Swamp Thing
First Appearance: Swamp Thing #1 (DC)
Created by: Len Wein and Berni Wrightson
Swamp Thing initially began as the 'easily' defined humanoid plant being: scientist Alec Holland was working in the Louisiana swamps on a restorative formula, and after a freak bomb subsequently tossed him, covered in chemicals, into a nearby swamp, he emerged as a plant-man. In later works, the then-relatively unknown Alan Moore reconsidered Swamp Thing's composition, and rather than being derived from Holland's corpse, Swamp Thing was instead primarily swamp vegetation which had absorbed his memories and skills. Swamp Thing became one of DC's premier incarnate beings of 'the Earth elemental', a mystic with immense abilities and who could control every gestalt plant consciousness. This era of Swamp Thing especially established the character as an immortal deity, with the added potential of being able to control independent multiple bodies and traverse through 'The Green', the dimension which connects all plant-life together. Swamp Thing has become one of the most poignant iconic comic figures of recent years, and immensely broadened the concepts of 'horror' and 'mythology' within comics. The character also is certainly a fundamental influence on following cosmic and spiritual characters, particularly in the Vertigo and mature comic areas.
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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top70dccharacters/52.jpg" align=left hspace=10 alt="Mr. Mxyzptlk"></a>#9 Mr. Mxyzptlk
First Appearance: Superman #30 (DC)
Created by: Jerry Siegel
When is a name not a name? When it's a random generation of letters on a keyboard. One of my favourite things about Mxy is that he could just as easily have been Fdgvjrnsd or Pgjefdvse and still comic fans would spend hours debating how his name was pronounced. (For those keeping score, it's Mix-yez-pit-lik. Pit lick? Sounds horrendous) Mxy's worth on the list comes from him being the poster boy for irritating little imps. Literally. A 5th dimensional being, Mxy's people are often referred to as imps. Possessing immense power such that, if they wanted, they can remake creation, Mxy instead limits himself to being a pain in the derrier. He doesn't go for grandiose speeches or diabolical plots. Instead, he pops up like clockwork to make Superman's day as annoying and frustrating as possible, only disappearing if Supes can outwit him into spelling his name backwards. He's an underachiever, a little brother, a playful scamp and a disappointment to his parents. Someone we can all relate to. Some more than others (or me more than others). Supes' villains have always been the brainer ones and Mxy's skill lies in his cunning and mischief. What's the point in being near omnipotent if you don't know how to have fun? You can keep your world eaters and your lords of the underworld. None of them would be able to think of a way to get Superman tarred and feathered.
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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10cosmicchars/PhantomStranger.jpg" align=left hspace=10 alt="The Phantom Stranger"></a>#8 The Phantom Stranger
First Appearance: The Phantom Stranger #1 (DC)
Created by: John Broome, Carmine Infantino, and Sy Barry
Is he a fallen angel; the Wandering Jew; a man who committed suicide and is now resurrected by an angel, condemned to walk the earth until doomsday; or a the last survivor of the DC universe's previous incarnation? The enigma of his origin is just one of the things that makes the Phantom Stranger such a powerful force in DC's repertoire, to say nothing of his powers. He can travel vast distances or to other dimensions in an instant, use force bolts, dispel magic and illusions, and survive in virtually any environment. His one limitation? He is forbidden to bring about the direct conclusion of any conflict--which is why he can very often be seen in the periphery of the big DC events, or helping to assemble a team of DC's heavies (like he did during the Crisis on Infinite Earths and also when the Spectre threatened to cleanse the entire Earth). From the range of his abilities, to his mysterious and nearly inhuman demeanor, to his part in large cosmic operas, the Stranger is one of the preeminent cosmic entities in comics.
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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top70dccharacters/42.jpg" align=left hspace=10 alt="Doctor Manhattan"></a>#7 Doctor Manhattan
First Appearance: Watchmen #1 (DC)
Created by: Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons
Jon Osterman's code name 'Doctor Manhattan' was dervied from the famous Manhatten Project of the Unites States, which aimed to create the earliest nuclear weaponry, and incite fear into America's enemies - which should give some indication into the breadth of power Manhattan is all about. Osterman's life was coupled between 'time' and 'nuclear-power' early on, and he consequently studied the 'intrinsic field separation' of physical objects, which have the potential to self vapourise. He himself experiences that complete bodily disintegration in a freak accident, but afterwards slowly begins to reform himself. Subsequently, Manhattan becomes not only the sole character in Watchmen to possess superhuman abilities (reverse entropy, manipulate matter, telekinesis, etc), but also a being who experiences time in a non-linear quantum fashion. Manhattan's fascinating contribution to Watchmen in particular is the shifting dynamics of his emotions with regards to time's arrow. By seeing the future, Manhattan seems to live in separate time zones simultaneously, and perceives most of his entire 'infinite' lifespan as a single moment. Manhattan is also almost the paradox of cosmic attitude: staying on Earth due to an interest in the 'thermodynamic miracles' of humanity, and finally leaving for the Universe beyond. Perhaps the implication is rather (as scenes such as those where he walks on water) that Manhattan has not merely disregarded an interest in human life, but has ascended to a 'less complicated' spiritually divine Godhood.
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<img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/headshots/jeangrey.jpg" align=left hspace=10 alt="The Phoenix"></a>#6 The Phoenix
First Appearance: Uncanny X-Men #100 (Marvel)
Created by: Chris Claremont and Dave Cockrum
There are few forces in comics so driving and recognizable as the Phoenix, few mythologies that have had an effect on such a large series of titles. The Phoenix, created in the 70’s, is thirty years later still a prominent story, still showing up in the X-titles and in the movies. And while it sometimes seems that the Phoenix does its job of dying and being reborn (again and again and again) far too well, it’s undeniable that the Phoenix is one of the most influential stories in mainstream comics. It’s a simple enough concept – a great cosmic being that exists to burn away what doesn’t work, functioning by finding avatars – but it has spawned countless stories explaining its effects on the X-Men. From the torment of Jean Grey through the Dark Phoenix Saga, to the power of Rachel Summers, to pushing Scott to shack up with Emma and continue the X-Men, lives are so often dictated by the force of this being. It does more than its chosen duty, and manipulates the world, instead of just taking pieces away. It interferes with lives and relationships, and is such a powerful cosmic force that it outlasts them all. And, again, as it will be for years to come, it is always reborn.
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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10cosmicchars/Lucifer.jpg" align=left hspace=10 alt="Lucifer"></a>#5 Lucifer
First Appearance: Sandman (v.2) #4 (DC)
Created by: Neil Gaiman and Sam Kieth
"[Lucifer] is the godfather of man as a spiritual being....he was perhaps the one who best understood the divine will struggling to create a world and who carried out that will most faithfully" - Carl Jung
Surely the greatest of all cosmic rebels. Premised on the legendary 'version' written by poets such as John Milton and Dante, Lucifer has brought a whole new critique of cosmic power and moral to the Vertigo table, initially by Sandman writer Neil Gaiman, and, later, by Mike Carey. Initially lamenting the loss of his original glory as the Morningstar, Lucifer later chose to leave Hell and entered various metaphysical positions, including a descent to Earth with the demon Mazikeen. Lucifer then endeavoured the ultimate cosmic intention; to create a wholly new Universe in his vision. Such a plan has been given way to a multi-faceted presentation on biblical, mythological, and mystical epic proportions, where the anti-heroic character has impressively been able to sustain his own solo title for a planned 75 issues. It is perhaps rightfully so, that Lucifer, ''the light bearer'', can be seen as the allegorical microcosm of his universe and our own - the necessary dark side of the cosmos. He literally holds the cosmic powers of light and dark, revealing the former through shadow, and reconciling them in order to express his own ultimate creativity.
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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top70dccharacters/51.jpg" align=left hspace=10 alt="The Spectre"></a>#4 The Spectre
First Appearance: More Fun Comics #52 (DC)
Created by: Jerry Siegel and Bernard Bailey
Jerry Siegel is best known for creating Superman, but there were others who sprung from his imagination, such as the Spectre. Originally conceived as the ghost of police detective Jim Corrigan, sent back to Earth to avenge his murder and those others whose killers had escaped justice, often in gruesome ways, the Spectre has gone through more than his share of incarnations. The legendary Fleischer/Aparo stories of the 70s took almost EC Comics level glee in slaughtering wrongdoers in ironic manner. In the 80s, a Spectre series made him simply another mystic hero. But in the 90s, the writer/artist team of John Ostrander and Tom Mandrake took the Spectre in a whole new direction. More than just a ghost, the Spectre is the avatar of the wrath of God, bound to a murdered soul, sent to Earth to understand the nature of evil. Through nearly seventy issues, Corrigan and the Spectre did battle, and finally came to an understanding. Since, the Spectre has spent some time bonded to Hal Jordan, and some time as a rogue and puppet of Eclipso, but was recently bonded to former Gotham City police officer Crispus Allen. The Spectre’s vengeful spirit again will roam the streets of the DCU, and woe to the wicked.
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<img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/headshots/dc/death.jpg" align=left hspace=10 alt="Death"></a>#3 Death
First Appearance: Sandman (v.2) #8 (DC)
Created by: Neil Gaiman and Mike Dringenberg
It has been said that only two things are inevitable: death and taxes. Well, there may be no anthropomorphic representation of taxes, but there are a few of Death, and none more memorable than Neil Gaiman and Mike Dringenberg’s creation. Not the cowl wearing menace, this Death is warm and welcoming, a perky Goth-looking girl, a Death who wants to ease the transition from one form of existence to another. Her powers are beyond reckoning, for she is one of the family of beings, who are beyond gods, called The Endless, and all gods and beings fear her, but she does her best to not use them unless it is necessary. She is a being beyond all knowing, yet does her best to make herself as understanding of humanity, going so far as to even become human once every century. At the end of all life, there is one entity, one power, waiting. When that time comes, there would be far worse beings waiting than Death.
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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/headshots/dc/dream1.jpg" align=left hspace=10 alt="Dream"></a>#2 Dream
First Appearance: Sandman (v2) #1 (DC)
Created by: Neil Gaiman and Sam Kieth
The transcending immortal embodiment of dreams, with aspects sometimes known as Morpheus, Oneiros, Lord Shaper, the Prince of Stories, and The Sandman. Perhaps both Neil Gaiman's modern classic and its 'central' nigh-omnipotent protagonist need no real introduction; if looking for the pure cosmic 'fundamentals', then The Endless represent simply what 'is'. Dream inhabits the realm of The Dreaming, which forms the communal dreams of humans, fairies, animals, and even cities. The complexity that arises out of Dream especially, is his conflicting aspects of character and perspective: Dream possesses as many forms and names as dreamers themselves. Morpheus, the most visibly famous aspect of Dream to be active throughout Sandman is initially emotionally indifferent and unwavering, but is progressively 'altered' during his capture by Roderick Burgess. Amongst those changes, Dream is stripped of three relics: a ruby which contained a portion of Dream's power, a small pouch of sand, and his helm made from an ancient God's bones. The removal of these cosmic objects and the consequent 'new' owners, represent in some sense the long strained relationship Dream has between the immortal and domains, dream and reality. Late in the series, Death comes to bring her brother peace, and the next incarnation of Dream can be seen as somehow unique (Daniel), but also allows the 'deceased' Morpheus to exist. Sandman and Dream allowed for a renewed interest of gothic-fantasy stories within DC (Hellblazer and Lucifer being two examples), and general comics focusing on the uncontained wonders of mythology and folklore. Dream is the Hamlet of Cosmic Beings: flawed, self-obsessed, symbolic and one of the most memorable protagonists ever written.
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<img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/headshots/exiles/020/galactus.jpg" align=left hspace=10 alt="Galactus"></a>#1 Galactus
First Appearance: Fantastic Four #48 (Marvel)
Created by: Stan Lee and Jack Kirby
When you think of pure, unbridled cosmic power in comics, you think of...the Silver Surfer, right? And where would Norrin Radd and the many heralds who preceded and succeeded him be if not for the force of nature called Galactus, mighty Devourer of Worlds? Well, they'd all probably be charred ashes on their home planets--yeah, that's right, they unilaterally sacrificed themselves to save their home planets, didn't they? Regardless, Galactus is the real reason why we're here. Galactus, who has made planet-scarfing his preferred pastime, the universe his anytime buffet table. And as the Fantastic Four among others have learned, you'd best not delay Galan (his given name in the pre-Big Bang universe) his repast: he's a fundamental force of randomness in the universe; entropy incarnate. Without him, the Marvel U as we know it might just collapse (as the Elders of the Universe tried to make happen by killing him). Galactus fears few, respects few, and is just about as far removed from human as one could expect from a cosmic entity. So let's review: not really human? Check. At home in the larger cosmos? Check. Possessed of awesome otherworldly powers? Big ol' check. And if you challenged his status as greatest cosmic character, well, he'd just as soon consign you to oblivion. After all, "Of what import are brief, nameless lives ... to Galactus??"
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There you have our picks for the Top Ten Cosmic Characters, those beings of unimaginable power and obvious appeal to readers. From green muck men to purple planet eaters, cosmic entities allow readers to view humanity from an outside perspective... very very outside in some cases, in an 'you are like a gnat to one such as I' kind of way, but sometimes those annoying Terrans need to be humbled. Though street-level heroes may dominate the shelves, the comic universe is grander still for having cosmic characters within.
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Doctor Manhattan, Dream, Lucifer, Swamp Thing: Stephanie Kay
Death, The Spectre: Matt Lazorwitz
Galactus, Phantom Stranger: Gary Miller
Phoenix: Lisa Charly
Mr. Mxyztlplk: Jon Hancock
Contributors: Will Carper, Tom Connolley, Anthony Devlin, Raul Grau, James Groves, Patrick James, Seth Kim, Magic Rabbit, T. Martin, Jordan T. Maxwell, Janne Pietikainen, Greg Reeves, Omar A. Safi
Image Assistance: Zachary J. Morrison
The opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the writers involved, and are not reflective of Comixfan or its other staff in general.
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[Post 2]
Author : Binaryan
Date : Oct 12, 2006 08:22 pm
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
wow....some unexpected choices there.
How can one have a list of greatest cosmic characters without the likes of the Silver Surfer and the original Captain Mar-vell? Or Flash Gordon?
I have to say, the mystic characters should get their own list... as I don't really think of Death, Dream and Lucifer as "cosmic" in the same way that Galactus, Phoenix, Thanos, Martian Manhunter, Darkseid, etc. are cosmic.
A fun list nonetheless with some interesting calls.
Ryan
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[Post 3]
Author : AdamWarlock
Date : Oct 12, 2006 08:29 pm
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
nice list... a little heavy on the Sandman... but thats hard not to do...
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[Post 4]
Author : MrGreen
Date : Oct 12, 2006 10:51 pm
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
wow....some unexpected choices there.
How can one have a list of greatest cosmic characters without the likes of the Silver Surfer and the original Captain Mar-vell? Or Flash Gordon?
I have to say, the mystic characters should get their own list... as I don't really think of Death, Dream and Lucifer as "cosmic" in the same way that Galactus, Phoenix, Thanos, Martian Manhunter, Darkseid, etc. are cosmic.
A fun list nonetheless with some interesting calls.
Ryan
Seconded.
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[Post 5]
Author : WolverAce
Date : Oct 13, 2006 12:10 am
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Hey
Hello
Impossible Man anyone??
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[Post 6]
Author : Janne Pietikainen
Date : Oct 13, 2006 12:59 am
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
How can one have a list of greatest cosmic characters without the likes of the Silver Surfer and the original Captain Mar-vell? Or Flash Gordon?
IIRC the thing was to have the list about characters that were beyond normal aliens. Sure, the Surfer and Marvel are aliens with power cosmic, but Phoenix and Galactus are something way beyond that.
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[Post 7]
Author : Polaris27
Date : Oct 13, 2006 05:57 am
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
I agree with the other posters-where is the Silver Surfer? Who is more iconic than a shiny, silvery all-powerful alien in the buff?
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[Post 8]
Author : Stephanie Kay
Date : Oct 13, 2006 06:14 am
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Will people please read the introduction -- this isn't differentiating mythological or celestial or whatnot.
The characters on the list are those relating to cosmic defined as "so pervasive and all-inclusive as to affect the whole world", abilities that are "Infinitely or inconceivably extended". This is one step up from "characters that won't legitimally die".
The Silver Surfer, Mar-Vell, Flash Gordon, Martian Manhunter ladalada aren't eligible and weren't even nominated.
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[Post 9]
Author : Anthony Devlin
Date : Oct 13, 2006 06:17 am
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Still think Jenny Quantum should have been on this list. :P
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[Post 10]
Author : Arivella
Date : Oct 13, 2006 06:29 am
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Wow you folks forgot about Thanos!?! I would have thought with all the things the guy has done he would have earned a spot...
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[Post 11]
Author : Mike Sangregorio
Date : Oct 13, 2006 11:42 am
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Steph: Mar-Vell, in his later cosmically aware state, became a being that easily fits your introductory description. With his mantle as "protector of the universe," or whatever pseudo-important title Starlin made up, he transcended the bounds of his space faring brethren.
I'll be honest, as well written as this list is, I stopped reading it halfway through. The overabundance of Vertigo characters just seems like a cop out. Of course they're cosmic, that's what made them sell. They are products of this 1980s Moore/Gaiman mold. Swamp Thing was turned into this elemental force and Lucifer is, well whatever he is, and even Phantom Stranger was guided in the mainstream by these crafty Brits. What stood out the most was that you have two of the (Fri)endless right after the one another in the top three.
I know I am in the extreme minority when I say (as I have stated before) that I do not think as much praise should be given to Gaiman's Sandman as is, but I think there were more than a few subgroups marginalized and pushed out to make way for these Hot Topic kids. Then again maybe I'm just grumpy cuz you all left out Primus (he made his first appearance in the Transformers comic, not the show)!
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[Post 12]
Author : Nick Costanzo
Date : Oct 13, 2006 12:04 pm
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Still think Jenny Quantum should have been on this list. :P
Word. Double Word, in fact. The girl would give most of the members on that list a run for their money.
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[Post 13]
Author : Stephanie Kay
Date : Oct 13, 2006 01:03 pm
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Steph: Mar-Vell, in his later cosmically aware state, became a being that easily fits your introductory description. With his mantle as "protector of the universe," or whatever pseudo-important title Starlin made up, he transcended the bounds of his space faring brethren.
It's not my introductory description, but I have an alternative model in my mind in distinguishing 'cosmic' -- admittedly my reading of Mar-Vell doesn't create the same sense of cosmic-totality as you put above (he just doesn't feel quite akin to a pure deity, but that's my opinion only) I was not explicitly against nominating Mar-Vell, someone else must have made the argument.
The problem that seems to be arising from many of the Comixfan Presents lists is the hazy lines between who is actually eligible.
I'll be honest, as well written as this list is, I stopped reading it halfway through. The overabundance of Vertigo characters just seems like a cop out. Of course they're cosmic, that's what made them sell. They are products of this 1980s Moore/Gaiman mold. Swamp Thing was turned into this elemental force and Lucifer is, well whatever he is, and even Phantom Stranger was guided in the mainstream by these crafty Brits. What stood out the most was that you have two of the (Fri)endless right after the one another in the top three.
It's certainly a fair case to be said, although the votes just panned out that way.
Word. Double Word, in fact. The girl would give most of the members on that list a run for their money.
Yeah I can't remember why Jenny wasn't a nom...?
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[Post 14]
Author : Anthony Devlin
Date : Oct 13, 2006 01:12 pm
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Yeah I can't remember why Jenny wasn't a nom...?
I'm sure i nominated her, cant see how i wouldnt have :ohwell:
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[Post 15]
Author : MrGreen
Date : Oct 13, 2006 10:03 pm
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Will people please read the introduction -- this isn't differentiating mythological or celestial or whatnot.
The characters on the list are those relating to cosmic defined as "so pervasive and all-inclusive as to affect the whole world", abilities that are "Infinitely or inconceivably extended". This is one step up from "characters that won't legitimally die".
The Silver Surfer, Mar-Vell, Flash Gordon, Martian Manhunter ladalada aren't eligible and weren't even nominated.
Sigh. They just don't get it. Or maybe we don't get it. Why even call this The Top Ten Cosmic Characters list when it is really The Top Ten All-Powerful Characters list? They are quite different. If this were the Top Ten Cosmic Characters like the title reads, this is who should have been on the list:
Flash Gordon
Captain Mar-Vell
The Watcher
Kilowog
Silver Surfer
Galactus
Martian Manhunter
Some character I haven't heard of
Another character I haven't heard of
Thanos
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[Post 16]
Author : ScottyM
Date : Oct 13, 2006 10:58 pm
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
so...if cosmic means alien....what about superman? I mean, Im not getting why he was left off and swamp thing was put on it...maybe I don't get the list
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[Post 17]
Author : peedi
Date : Oct 14, 2006 05:43 am
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Some of the characters mentioned seem less actual cosmic, and more supernatural. I do think of space when it comes to cosmic, not really earth- bound powerful types, as well as the nature of the powers, and the status of the character.
I would lump Swamp Thing and Spectre in the same category as Dr. Stange, Ghost Rider, Mephisto, etc. Someone like Strange may be very powerful, but is he cosmic?
I would put Phoenix and Galactus in the same category as with Silver Surfer, Superman, Firestorm, Firelord, Thanos, Captain Marvel, etc. These are all characters heavily tied to space, which isn't the only consideration, but a pretty big one.
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[Post 18]
Author : raul grau
Date : Oct 16, 2006 03:25 am
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Well, since I ran this production, I thought that I should respond to some of the concerns expressed here...
How can one have a list of greatest cosmic characters without the likes of the Silver Surfer and the original Captain Mar-vell? Or Flash Gordon?The general definition used for this list (and our other 'cosmic' features) was that the character in question utterly transcend humanity and weld unimagineable power, so Eternity, the Anti-Monitor, and the Marvel personification of Death were some of the other characters under consideration, but those folks fell short in the voting. The characters you listed do not fall within that category, though both Norrin and Mar-Vell made our list of the Top Ten Extraterrestrials (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=36789) from last fall.
The other definitions mentioned here are equally valid, but we could only follow one to compile this list, and I decided to stick with the version that focused most on true 'cosmic beings' and did not retread on the ground that we had already covered with the aforementioned Extraterrestrials list.
Wow you folks forgot about Thanos!?! I would have thought with all the things the guy has done he would have earned a spot...Thanos certainly has been a cosmic being (most notably when welding the Infinity Gauntlet... #4 on our list of Top Ten Cosmic Objects (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=38354)), but he remains a fundamentally human (or human off-shoot) character who relies upon technological marvels to boost his natural talents... though, I agree, he usually makes for an interesting read.
I'm sure i nominated her, cant see how i wouldnt have :ohwell:You did, Ant, and that was followed by much discussion, until the conclusion reached was that she (and her predecessor) acted, thought, and... ummm... did certain other things that cannot be mentioned on an all-ages forum like humans, which violated one of our premises. Of course, one Jenny (perhaps both) may appear on our next Comixfan Presents list, which will be coming soon to a front page near you. ;)
- Raul
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[Post 19]
Author : Tan K.
Date : Oct 16, 2006 12:49 pm
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
I understand now the category. I think the title makes the candidates confusing. At first look, I think most would expect the Darkseids, Silver Surfers, GL's, etc (as mentioned above).
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The messages has been download from Comixfan Forums at http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums at 05.10.2007 08:31:29
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THREAD : COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Started at Oct 12, 2006 03:10 pm by raul grau
Visit at http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=40396
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[Post 1]
Author : raul grau
Date : Oct 12, 2006 03:10 pm
Title : COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/comixfanpresents.gif" align=left border=0 hspace=10 alt="Comixfan Presents logo">The Top Ten Cosmic Characters
By: Lisa Charly, Jon Hancock, Stephanie Kay, Matt Lazorwitz, Gary Miller
Editor: Raul Grau
During Cosmic March (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=38059), Comixfan followed the road to Annihilation with interviews, anniversary specials, and analysis of the Alien Races (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=38266) and Cosmic Objects (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=38354) that litter our fictional universes. However, one aspect ignored was an exploration of the Cosmic Characters themselves, those paragons of the spaceways, dimensional crossings, and nether realms who are far beyond our mortal kin. Well, the readers requested, and we acquiesced... several months later, but it is the thought that counts.
Here is the Comixfan-compiled list of the Top Ten Cosmic Characters. As a reminder, for the purposes of this list, cosmic has been defined to include all beings and anthropomorphic entities who possess power and abilities that put the standard superfolk to shame. Regularly crossing the chasm between the living and the dead, opening your own Battleworld, or willfully breaking the fourth wall would qualify as admittance onto this list. Of course, incomprehensible power is not nearly enough to earn space among the top ten... as you shall soon see, even amongst cosmic characters, character counts.
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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10cosmicchars/swampthing.jpg" align=left hspace=10 alt="Swamp Thing"></a>#10 Swamp Thing
First Appearance: Swamp Thing #1 (DC)
Created by: Len Wein and Berni Wrightson
Swamp Thing initially began as the 'easily' defined humanoid plant being: scientist Alec Holland was working in the Louisiana swamps on a restorative formula, and after a freak bomb subsequently tossed him, covered in chemicals, into a nearby swamp, he emerged as a plant-man. In later works, the then-relatively unknown Alan Moore reconsidered Swamp Thing's composition, and rather than being derived from Holland's corpse, Swamp Thing was instead primarily swamp vegetation which had absorbed his memories and skills. Swamp Thing became one of DC's premier incarnate beings of 'the Earth elemental', a mystic with immense abilities and who could control every gestalt plant consciousness. This era of Swamp Thing especially established the character as an immortal deity, with the added potential of being able to control independent multiple bodies and traverse through 'The Green', the dimension which connects all plant-life together. Swamp Thing has become one of the most poignant iconic comic figures of recent years, and immensely broadened the concepts of 'horror' and 'mythology' within comics. The character also is certainly a fundamental influence on following cosmic and spiritual characters, particularly in the Vertigo and mature comic areas.
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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top70dccharacters/52.jpg" align=left hspace=10 alt="Mr. Mxyzptlk"></a>#9 Mr. Mxyzptlk
First Appearance: Superman #30 (DC)
Created by: Jerry Siegel
When is a name not a name? When it's a random generation of letters on a keyboard. One of my favourite things about Mxy is that he could just as easily have been Fdgvjrnsd or Pgjefdvse and still comic fans would spend hours debating how his name was pronounced. (For those keeping score, it's Mix-yez-pit-lik. Pit lick? Sounds horrendous) Mxy's worth on the list comes from him being the poster boy for irritating little imps. Literally. A 5th dimensional being, Mxy's people are often referred to as imps. Possessing immense power such that, if they wanted, they can remake creation, Mxy instead limits himself to being a pain in the derrier. He doesn't go for grandiose speeches or diabolical plots. Instead, he pops up like clockwork to make Superman's day as annoying and frustrating as possible, only disappearing if Supes can outwit him into spelling his name backwards. He's an underachiever, a little brother, a playful scamp and a disappointment to his parents. Someone we can all relate to. Some more than others (or me more than others). Supes' villains have always been the brainer ones and Mxy's skill lies in his cunning and mischief. What's the point in being near omnipotent if you don't know how to have fun? You can keep your world eaters and your lords of the underworld. None of them would be able to think of a way to get Superman tarred and feathered.
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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10cosmicchars/PhantomStranger.jpg" align=left hspace=10 alt="The Phantom Stranger"></a>#8 The Phantom Stranger
First Appearance: The Phantom Stranger #1 (DC)
Created by: John Broome, Carmine Infantino, and Sy Barry
Is he a fallen angel; the Wandering Jew; a man who committed suicide and is now resurrected by an angel, condemned to walk the earth until doomsday; or a the last survivor of the DC universe's previous incarnation? The enigma of his origin is just one of the things that makes the Phantom Stranger such a powerful force in DC's repertoire, to say nothing of his powers. He can travel vast distances or to other dimensions in an instant, use force bolts, dispel magic and illusions, and survive in virtually any environment. His one limitation? He is forbidden to bring about the direct conclusion of any conflict--which is why he can very often be seen in the periphery of the big DC events, or helping to assemble a team of DC's heavies (like he did during the Crisis on Infinite Earths and also when the Spectre threatened to cleanse the entire Earth). From the range of his abilities, to his mysterious and nearly inhuman demeanor, to his part in large cosmic operas, the Stranger is one of the preeminent cosmic entities in comics.
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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top70dccharacters/42.jpg" align=left hspace=10 alt="Doctor Manhattan"></a>#7 Doctor Manhattan
First Appearance: Watchmen #1 (DC)
Created by: Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons
Jon Osterman's code name 'Doctor Manhattan' was dervied from the famous Manhatten Project of the Unites States, which aimed to create the earliest nuclear weaponry, and incite fear into America's enemies - which should give some indication into the breadth of power Manhattan is all about. Osterman's life was coupled between 'time' and 'nuclear-power' early on, and he consequently studied the 'intrinsic field separation' of physical objects, which have the potential to self vapourise. He himself experiences that complete bodily disintegration in a freak accident, but afterwards slowly begins to reform himself. Subsequently, Manhattan becomes not only the sole character in Watchmen to possess superhuman abilities (reverse entropy, manipulate matter, telekinesis, etc), but also a being who experiences time in a non-linear quantum fashion. Manhattan's fascinating contribution to Watchmen in particular is the shifting dynamics of his emotions with regards to time's arrow. By seeing the future, Manhattan seems to live in separate time zones simultaneously, and perceives most of his entire 'infinite' lifespan as a single moment. Manhattan is also almost the paradox of cosmic attitude: staying on Earth due to an interest in the 'thermodynamic miracles' of humanity, and finally leaving for the Universe beyond. Perhaps the implication is rather (as scenes such as those where he walks on water) that Manhattan has not merely disregarded an interest in human life, but has ascended to a 'less complicated' spiritually divine Godhood.
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<img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/headshots/jeangrey.jpg" align=left hspace=10 alt="The Phoenix"></a>#6 The Phoenix
First Appearance: Uncanny X-Men #100 (Marvel)
Created by: Chris Claremont and Dave Cockrum
There are few forces in comics so driving and recognizable as the Phoenix, few mythologies that have had an effect on such a large series of titles. The Phoenix, created in the 70’s, is thirty years later still a prominent story, still showing up in the X-titles and in the movies. And while it sometimes seems that the Phoenix does its job of dying and being reborn (again and again and again) far too well, it’s undeniable that the Phoenix is one of the most influential stories in mainstream comics. It’s a simple enough concept – a great cosmic being that exists to burn away what doesn’t work, functioning by finding avatars – but it has spawned countless stories explaining its effects on the X-Men. From the torment of Jean Grey through the Dark Phoenix Saga, to the power of Rachel Summers, to pushing Scott to shack up with Emma and continue the X-Men, lives are so often dictated by the force of this being. It does more than its chosen duty, and manipulates the world, instead of just taking pieces away. It interferes with lives and relationships, and is such a powerful cosmic force that it outlasts them all. And, again, as it will be for years to come, it is always reborn.
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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top10cosmicchars/Lucifer.jpg" align=left hspace=10 alt="Lucifer"></a>#5 Lucifer
First Appearance: Sandman (v.2) #4 (DC)
Created by: Neil Gaiman and Sam Kieth
"[Lucifer] is the godfather of man as a spiritual being....he was perhaps the one who best understood the divine will struggling to create a world and who carried out that will most faithfully" - Carl Jung
Surely the greatest of all cosmic rebels. Premised on the legendary 'version' written by poets such as John Milton and Dante, Lucifer has brought a whole new critique of cosmic power and moral to the Vertigo table, initially by Sandman writer Neil Gaiman, and, later, by Mike Carey. Initially lamenting the loss of his original glory as the Morningstar, Lucifer later chose to leave Hell and entered various metaphysical positions, including a descent to Earth with the demon Mazikeen. Lucifer then endeavoured the ultimate cosmic intention; to create a wholly new Universe in his vision. Such a plan has been given way to a multi-faceted presentation on biblical, mythological, and mystical epic proportions, where the anti-heroic character has impressively been able to sustain his own solo title for a planned 75 issues. It is perhaps rightfully so, that Lucifer, ''the light bearer'', can be seen as the allegorical microcosm of his universe and our own - the necessary dark side of the cosmos. He literally holds the cosmic powers of light and dark, revealing the former through shadow, and reconciling them in order to express his own ultimate creativity.
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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/columns/top70dccharacters/51.jpg" align=left hspace=10 alt="The Spectre"></a>#4 The Spectre
First Appearance: More Fun Comics #52 (DC)
Created by: Jerry Siegel and Bernard Bailey
Jerry Siegel is best known for creating Superman, but there were others who sprung from his imagination, such as the Spectre. Originally conceived as the ghost of police detective Jim Corrigan, sent back to Earth to avenge his murder and those others whose killers had escaped justice, often in gruesome ways, the Spectre has gone through more than his share of incarnations. The legendary Fleischer/Aparo stories of the 70s took almost EC Comics level glee in slaughtering wrongdoers in ironic manner. In the 80s, a Spectre series made him simply another mystic hero. But in the 90s, the writer/artist team of John Ostrander and Tom Mandrake took the Spectre in a whole new direction. More than just a ghost, the Spectre is the avatar of the wrath of God, bound to a murdered soul, sent to Earth to understand the nature of evil. Through nearly seventy issues, Corrigan and the Spectre did battle, and finally came to an understanding. Since, the Spectre has spent some time bonded to Hal Jordan, and some time as a rogue and puppet of Eclipso, but was recently bonded to former Gotham City police officer Crispus Allen. The Spectre’s vengeful spirit again will roam the streets of the DCU, and woe to the wicked.
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<img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/headshots/dc/death.jpg" align=left hspace=10 alt="Death"></a>#3 Death
First Appearance: Sandman (v.2) #8 (DC)
Created by: Neil Gaiman and Mike Dringenberg
It has been said that only two things are inevitable: death and taxes. Well, there may be no anthropomorphic representation of taxes, but there are a few of Death, and none more memorable than Neil Gaiman and Mike Dringenberg’s creation. Not the cowl wearing menace, this Death is warm and welcoming, a perky Goth-looking girl, a Death who wants to ease the transition from one form of existence to another. Her powers are beyond reckoning, for she is one of the family of beings, who are beyond gods, called The Endless, and all gods and beings fear her, but she does her best to not use them unless it is necessary. She is a being beyond all knowing, yet does her best to make herself as understanding of humanity, going so far as to even become human once every century. At the end of all life, there is one entity, one power, waiting. When that time comes, there would be far worse beings waiting than Death.
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<img src="http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/images/headshots/dc/dream1.jpg" align=left hspace=10 alt="Dream"></a>#2 Dream
First Appearance: Sandman (v2) #1 (DC)
Created by: Neil Gaiman and Sam Kieth
The transcending immortal embodiment of dreams, with aspects sometimes known as Morpheus, Oneiros, Lord Shaper, the Prince of Stories, and The Sandman. Perhaps both Neil Gaiman's modern classic and its 'central' nigh-omnipotent protagonist need no real introduction; if looking for the pure cosmic 'fundamentals', then The Endless represent simply what 'is'. Dream inhabits the realm of The Dreaming, which forms the communal dreams of humans, fairies, animals, and even cities. The complexity that arises out of Dream especially, is his conflicting aspects of character and perspective: Dream possesses as many forms and names as dreamers themselves. Morpheus, the most visibly famous aspect of Dream to be active throughout Sandman is initially emotionally indifferent and unwavering, but is progressively 'altered' during his capture by Roderick Burgess. Amongst those changes, Dream is stripped of three relics: a ruby which contained a portion of Dream's power, a small pouch of sand, and his helm made from an ancient God's bones. The removal of these cosmic objects and the consequent 'new' owners, represent in some sense the long strained relationship Dream has between the immortal and domains, dream and reality. Late in the series, Death comes to bring her brother peace, and the next incarnation of Dream can be seen as somehow unique (Daniel), but also allows the 'deceased' Morpheus to exist. Sandman and Dream allowed for a renewed interest of gothic-fantasy stories within DC (Hellblazer and Lucifer being two examples), and general comics focusing on the uncontained wonders of mythology and folklore. Dream is the Hamlet of Cosmic Beings: flawed, self-obsessed, symbolic and one of the most memorable protagonists ever written.
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<img src="http://x-mencomics.com/xfan/images/headshots/exiles/020/galactus.jpg" align=left hspace=10 alt="Galactus"></a>#1 Galactus
First Appearance: Fantastic Four #48 (Marvel)
Created by: Stan Lee and Jack Kirby
When you think of pure, unbridled cosmic power in comics, you think of...the Silver Surfer, right? And where would Norrin Radd and the many heralds who preceded and succeeded him be if not for the force of nature called Galactus, mighty Devourer of Worlds? Well, they'd all probably be charred ashes on their home planets--yeah, that's right, they unilaterally sacrificed themselves to save their home planets, didn't they? Regardless, Galactus is the real reason why we're here. Galactus, who has made planet-scarfing his preferred pastime, the universe his anytime buffet table. And as the Fantastic Four among others have learned, you'd best not delay Galan (his given name in the pre-Big Bang universe) his repast: he's a fundamental force of randomness in the universe; entropy incarnate. Without him, the Marvel U as we know it might just collapse (as the Elders of the Universe tried to make happen by killing him). Galactus fears few, respects few, and is just about as far removed from human as one could expect from a cosmic entity. So let's review: not really human? Check. At home in the larger cosmos? Check. Possessed of awesome otherworldly powers? Big ol' check. And if you challenged his status as greatest cosmic character, well, he'd just as soon consign you to oblivion. After all, "Of what import are brief, nameless lives ... to Galactus??"
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There you have our picks for the Top Ten Cosmic Characters, those beings of unimaginable power and obvious appeal to readers. From green muck men to purple planet eaters, cosmic entities allow readers to view humanity from an outside perspective... very very outside in some cases, in an 'you are like a gnat to one such as I' kind of way, but sometimes those annoying Terrans need to be humbled. Though street-level heroes may dominate the shelves, the comic universe is grander still for having cosmic characters within.
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Doctor Manhattan, Dream, Lucifer, Swamp Thing: Stephanie Kay
Death, The Spectre: Matt Lazorwitz
Galactus, Phantom Stranger: Gary Miller
Phoenix: Lisa Charly
Mr. Mxyztlplk: Jon Hancock
Contributors: Will Carper, Tom Connolley, Anthony Devlin, Raul Grau, James Groves, Patrick James, Seth Kim, Magic Rabbit, T. Martin, Jordan T. Maxwell, Janne Pietikainen, Greg Reeves, Omar A. Safi
Image Assistance: Zachary J. Morrison
The opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the writers involved, and are not reflective of Comixfan or its other staff in general.
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[Post 2]
Author : Binaryan
Date : Oct 12, 2006 08:22 pm
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
wow....some unexpected choices there.
How can one have a list of greatest cosmic characters without the likes of the Silver Surfer and the original Captain Mar-vell? Or Flash Gordon?
I have to say, the mystic characters should get their own list... as I don't really think of Death, Dream and Lucifer as "cosmic" in the same way that Galactus, Phoenix, Thanos, Martian Manhunter, Darkseid, etc. are cosmic.
A fun list nonetheless with some interesting calls.
Ryan
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[Post 3]
Author : AdamWarlock
Date : Oct 12, 2006 08:29 pm
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
nice list... a little heavy on the Sandman... but thats hard not to do...
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[Post 4]
Author : MrGreen
Date : Oct 12, 2006 10:51 pm
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
wow....some unexpected choices there.
How can one have a list of greatest cosmic characters without the likes of the Silver Surfer and the original Captain Mar-vell? Or Flash Gordon?
I have to say, the mystic characters should get their own list... as I don't really think of Death, Dream and Lucifer as "cosmic" in the same way that Galactus, Phoenix, Thanos, Martian Manhunter, Darkseid, etc. are cosmic.
A fun list nonetheless with some interesting calls.
Ryan
Seconded.
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[Post 5]
Author : WolverAce
Date : Oct 13, 2006 12:10 am
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Hey
Hello
Impossible Man anyone??
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[Post 6]
Author : Janne Pietikainen
Date : Oct 13, 2006 12:59 am
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
How can one have a list of greatest cosmic characters without the likes of the Silver Surfer and the original Captain Mar-vell? Or Flash Gordon?
IIRC the thing was to have the list about characters that were beyond normal aliens. Sure, the Surfer and Marvel are aliens with power cosmic, but Phoenix and Galactus are something way beyond that.
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[Post 7]
Author : Polaris27
Date : Oct 13, 2006 05:57 am
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
I agree with the other posters-where is the Silver Surfer? Who is more iconic than a shiny, silvery all-powerful alien in the buff?
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[Post 8]
Author : Stephanie Kay
Date : Oct 13, 2006 06:14 am
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Will people please read the introduction -- this isn't differentiating mythological or celestial or whatnot.
The characters on the list are those relating to cosmic defined as "so pervasive and all-inclusive as to affect the whole world", abilities that are "Infinitely or inconceivably extended". This is one step up from "characters that won't legitimally die".
The Silver Surfer, Mar-Vell, Flash Gordon, Martian Manhunter ladalada aren't eligible and weren't even nominated.
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[Post 9]
Author : Anthony Devlin
Date : Oct 13, 2006 06:17 am
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Still think Jenny Quantum should have been on this list. :P
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[Post 10]
Author : Arivella
Date : Oct 13, 2006 06:29 am
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Wow you folks forgot about Thanos!?! I would have thought with all the things the guy has done he would have earned a spot...
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[Post 11]
Author : Mike Sangregorio
Date : Oct 13, 2006 11:42 am
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Steph: Mar-Vell, in his later cosmically aware state, became a being that easily fits your introductory description. With his mantle as "protector of the universe," or whatever pseudo-important title Starlin made up, he transcended the bounds of his space faring brethren.
I'll be honest, as well written as this list is, I stopped reading it halfway through. The overabundance of Vertigo characters just seems like a cop out. Of course they're cosmic, that's what made them sell. They are products of this 1980s Moore/Gaiman mold. Swamp Thing was turned into this elemental force and Lucifer is, well whatever he is, and even Phantom Stranger was guided in the mainstream by these crafty Brits. What stood out the most was that you have two of the (Fri)endless right after the one another in the top three.
I know I am in the extreme minority when I say (as I have stated before) that I do not think as much praise should be given to Gaiman's Sandman as is, but I think there were more than a few subgroups marginalized and pushed out to make way for these Hot Topic kids. Then again maybe I'm just grumpy cuz you all left out Primus (he made his first appearance in the Transformers comic, not the show)!
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[Post 12]
Author : Nick Costanzo
Date : Oct 13, 2006 12:04 pm
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Still think Jenny Quantum should have been on this list. :P
Word. Double Word, in fact. The girl would give most of the members on that list a run for their money.
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[Post 13]
Author : Stephanie Kay
Date : Oct 13, 2006 01:03 pm
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Steph: Mar-Vell, in his later cosmically aware state, became a being that easily fits your introductory description. With his mantle as "protector of the universe," or whatever pseudo-important title Starlin made up, he transcended the bounds of his space faring brethren.
It's not my introductory description, but I have an alternative model in my mind in distinguishing 'cosmic' -- admittedly my reading of Mar-Vell doesn't create the same sense of cosmic-totality as you put above (he just doesn't feel quite akin to a pure deity, but that's my opinion only) I was not explicitly against nominating Mar-Vell, someone else must have made the argument.
The problem that seems to be arising from many of the Comixfan Presents lists is the hazy lines between who is actually eligible.
I'll be honest, as well written as this list is, I stopped reading it halfway through. The overabundance of Vertigo characters just seems like a cop out. Of course they're cosmic, that's what made them sell. They are products of this 1980s Moore/Gaiman mold. Swamp Thing was turned into this elemental force and Lucifer is, well whatever he is, and even Phantom Stranger was guided in the mainstream by these crafty Brits. What stood out the most was that you have two of the (Fri)endless right after the one another in the top three.
It's certainly a fair case to be said, although the votes just panned out that way.
Word. Double Word, in fact. The girl would give most of the members on that list a run for their money.
Yeah I can't remember why Jenny wasn't a nom...?
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[Post 14]
Author : Anthony Devlin
Date : Oct 13, 2006 01:12 pm
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Yeah I can't remember why Jenny wasn't a nom...?
I'm sure i nominated her, cant see how i wouldnt have :ohwell:
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[Post 15]
Author : MrGreen
Date : Oct 13, 2006 10:03 pm
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Will people please read the introduction -- this isn't differentiating mythological or celestial or whatnot.
The characters on the list are those relating to cosmic defined as "so pervasive and all-inclusive as to affect the whole world", abilities that are "Infinitely or inconceivably extended". This is one step up from "characters that won't legitimally die".
The Silver Surfer, Mar-Vell, Flash Gordon, Martian Manhunter ladalada aren't eligible and weren't even nominated.
Sigh. They just don't get it. Or maybe we don't get it. Why even call this The Top Ten Cosmic Characters list when it is really The Top Ten All-Powerful Characters list? They are quite different. If this were the Top Ten Cosmic Characters like the title reads, this is who should have been on the list:
Flash Gordon
Captain Mar-Vell
The Watcher
Kilowog
Silver Surfer
Galactus
Martian Manhunter
Some character I haven't heard of
Another character I haven't heard of
Thanos
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[Post 16]
Author : ScottyM
Date : Oct 13, 2006 10:58 pm
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
so...if cosmic means alien....what about superman? I mean, Im not getting why he was left off and swamp thing was put on it...maybe I don't get the list
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[Post 17]
Author : peedi
Date : Oct 14, 2006 05:43 am
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Some of the characters mentioned seem less actual cosmic, and more supernatural. I do think of space when it comes to cosmic, not really earth- bound powerful types, as well as the nature of the powers, and the status of the character.
I would lump Swamp Thing and Spectre in the same category as Dr. Stange, Ghost Rider, Mephisto, etc. Someone like Strange may be very powerful, but is he cosmic?
I would put Phoenix and Galactus in the same category as with Silver Surfer, Superman, Firestorm, Firelord, Thanos, Captain Marvel, etc. These are all characters heavily tied to space, which isn't the only consideration, but a pretty big one.
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[Post 18]
Author : raul grau
Date : Oct 16, 2006 03:25 am
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
Well, since I ran this production, I thought that I should respond to some of the concerns expressed here...
How can one have a list of greatest cosmic characters without the likes of the Silver Surfer and the original Captain Mar-vell? Or Flash Gordon?The general definition used for this list (and our other 'cosmic' features) was that the character in question utterly transcend humanity and weld unimagineable power, so Eternity, the Anti-Monitor, and the Marvel personification of Death were some of the other characters under consideration, but those folks fell short in the voting. The characters you listed do not fall within that category, though both Norrin and Mar-Vell made our list of the Top Ten Extraterrestrials (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=36789) from last fall.
The other definitions mentioned here are equally valid, but we could only follow one to compile this list, and I decided to stick with the version that focused most on true 'cosmic beings' and did not retread on the ground that we had already covered with the aforementioned Extraterrestrials list.
Wow you folks forgot about Thanos!?! I would have thought with all the things the guy has done he would have earned a spot...Thanos certainly has been a cosmic being (most notably when welding the Infinity Gauntlet... #4 on our list of Top Ten Cosmic Objects (http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=38354)), but he remains a fundamentally human (or human off-shoot) character who relies upon technological marvels to boost his natural talents... though, I agree, he usually makes for an interesting read.
I'm sure i nominated her, cant see how i wouldnt have :ohwell:You did, Ant, and that was followed by much discussion, until the conclusion reached was that she (and her predecessor) acted, thought, and... ummm... did certain other things that cannot be mentioned on an all-ages forum like humans, which violated one of our premises. Of course, one Jenny (perhaps both) may appear on our next Comixfan Presents list, which will be coming soon to a front page near you. ;)
- Raul
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[Post 19]
Author : Tan K.
Date : Oct 16, 2006 12:49 pm
Title : Re: COMIXFAN PRESENTS... THE TOP TEN COSMIC CHARACTERS
I understand now the category. I think the title makes the candidates confusing. At first look, I think most would expect the Darkseids, Silver Surfers, GL's, etc (as mentioned above).
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The messages has been download from Comixfan Forums at http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums at 05.10.2007 08:31:29