Nick Costanzo
Oct 8, 2007, 10:28 pm
* * * Comixfan Forums THREAD * * *
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THREAD : WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
Started at Aug 8, 2007 12:15 pm by Nick Costanzo
Visit at http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=42745
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[Post 1]
Author : Nick Costanzo
Date : Aug 8, 2007 12:15 pm
Title : WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
By Alan Lynch, shabbasnake@hotmail.com
May Cause Discomfort
A funny thing happens amongst comics fans which I can’t honestly say I’ve seen repeated in other media. A strange thing we fans are often guilty of, frequently without even realising it. It’s nothing to be ashamed of really, it’s just something you don’t see carrying over into our DVD collections.
Company loyalty.
Very often – and I’ve been around the online comic community long enough to state this as fact – fans will gladly describe themselves as Marvel Zombies, or…DC fans (I don’t know if they have a nickname. Feel free to educate me). The closest things I can think of in other forms of entertainment are the Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo zealots you see around sometimes, but a lot of the time those guys are dicks. With comic readers who stick by any one company I find that for the most part there’s no real animosity towards anyone else. They just prefer one company’s output above all others to the point of not paying attention to a lot of books. It’s comfortable for them.
Like I say, it’s not anything I’m going to judge someone on. I’ve often said around here that I grew up a Marvel reader, almost exclusively. There are usually very good reasons for things like that: in my instance, all that was available to me was old Marvel reprints from Panini. I didn’t read a non-DC book until I discovered a Death of Superman TPB hiding in my local library, and it was another couple of years before I found a real comic store. A lot of people will have started in the same way, reading whatever was at hand regardless of publisher. And it is a really hard habit to break; I’d been reading comics for 5 or 6 years before finding a store, and was naturally drawn towards what I knew. I’m still largely ignorant of big things like Infinite Crisis, the Multiverse and what have you. They passed me by totally.
Then you have to look at how the big two publishers have very much applied a style across their individual playing fields. Big events set the tone for these shared universes, so you find plots and styles can stay similar across several books; this helped by having the same writers on various books as well. There isn’t really an analogous situation in any other entertainment industry: record labels, book publishers, film studios and the like generally don’t let one work influence what happens in another. So like I say, company loyalty of the kind we often engage in is perfectly understandable. It’s one of our funny, unique little quirks.
So what exactly is my point? It’s quite simple really. As much as I understand people sticking to one company’s output, it doesn’t help when it comes to getting new readers involved. As I’ve said previously (for those who’ve been paying attention; you’d almost think I had a plan here), you are going to be any new readers’ first point of contact. They will ask your recommendation, and you can’t let your own prejudice (or ignorance, but they’re both such negative words) prevent you from recommending a book you think they might like. But if all you read are, for instance, Marvel titles, then you won’t ever be able to point someone towards a whole host of books out there. DC and their imprints, Image, IDW, Avatar etc – all publishers putting out books which appeal to different readers. All really keen to win over new readers.
You really have to believe me here – I can’t possibly judge or criticise anyone who sticks with one publisher. Maybe you don’t know anything else. Maybe you’ve found a style which suits you. Maybe you like the talent pool found at one company. Maybe you’ve never found anything you like elsewhere. But I’d like, with your help, to phase this kind of thinking out. If we want to pull in new readers then we have to educate ourselves almost as much as we do them. Forever living in the a comfort zone like that makes you ill equipped to help other people out of theirs; and that won’t do at all.
So when you next get the chance, try something new. How you decide what is up to you – hunt around the fine review section here; read the solicitations, interviews, previews; ask other people; find a creator you like. Whatever. Neither do I really care where you get the title in question. Personally, my library has a hell of a lot of strange books I’ve never looked at before. Some books are available – legally – online. If you’re rich then just pick up something from your store. But take that step; be brave, be uncomfortable, even if just this once. If you’re lucky then you’ll find something new and wonderful to read and tell your friends about and, and we can all help the industry grow. If you’re not then at worst you’ll have lost a couple of pounds. Or whatever passes for money in the colonies.
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Alan Lynch read old Marvel comics for so long he lived several years under the mistaken impression that Stegron didn’t suck.
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The opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the writer, and are not reflective of Comixfan or its other staff in general.
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[Post 2]
Author : Anthony Devlin
Date : Aug 8, 2007 12:39 pm
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
The closest things I can think of in other forms of entertainment are the Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo zealots you see around sometimes, but a lot of the time those guys are dicks.
You could say the same for sports - people tend to support only one football team with a passion, and usually for life. Music too. People will follow one particular artist over others. I think Brand loyalty is actually more common than you think. Clothing brands, I know plenty of people that will only wear specific brands. Car’s, plenty of people will find a manufacturer they like, and then stick with that manufacturer. Electrical appliances, again, people will tend to buy from the same manufacturer (not everybody, but you’ll find a lot of people do). It’s all about finding your tribe - there was a really interesting show on TV the other week about how people use brands to identify themselves. It’s a lot more widespread than simply comics, and only buying from a particular publisher.
With comic readers who stick by any one company I find that for the most part there’s no real animosity towards anyone else.
i'd have to disagree with this. I think it’s 50/50 at the least. i would say 50% of fans who only read brand A do have a degree of animosity towards people who only read brand B. just like I think there is a lot of snobbery with reader’s too, over what people read, and by who.
There isn’t really an analogous situation in any other entertainment industry: record labels, book publishers, film studios and the like generally don’t let one work influence what happens in another. So like I say, company loyalty of the kind we often engage in is perfectly understandable. It’s one of our funny, unique little quirks.
Yes they do. Hollywood is forever milking concepts from one film and putting them in other films in order to capitalise on the success a particular film might have. so one film can clearly have an influence on what type of movie comes out over a period of time. And I’d say the same with Music. Spice Girls were launched there wasn’t another girl band on the scene. They suddenly explode up the charts and her presto, every Record Label has their own home-grown girl band. And it’s not only in these two specific areas. Influence is apparent in other places, which again, are very much part of the ‘customer loyalty’ crowd.
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[Post 3]
Author : Sullosar
Date : Aug 8, 2007 04:28 pm
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
Yes they do. Hollywood is forever milking concepts from one film and putting them in other films in order to capitalise on the success a particular film might have. so one film can clearly have an influence on what type of movie comes out over a period of time. And I’d say the same with Music. Spice Girls were launched there wasn’t another girl band on the scene. They suddenly explode up the charts and her presto, every Record Label has their own home-grown girl band. And it’s not only in these two specific areas. Influence is apparent in other places, which again, are very much part of the ‘customer loyalty’ crowd.
I have to say, for this point, I believe you misunderstood what he was saying.
Let's say 20th Century Fox makes a movie in which they blow up the Chrysler Building. If they make another movie, completely unrelated to the first, normally they would not include a big crater where the Chrysler Building used to be.
Whereas in comics, if the building was blown up in one Marvel comic, it is normally blown up in all Marvel comics within that continuity.
His point is that, in this instance, brand loyalty makes some more sense, because its easier to keep your "worlds" straight when events mesh.
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[Post 4]
Author : Anthony Devlin
Date : Aug 8, 2007 04:53 pm
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
His point is that, in this instance, brand loyalty makes some more sense, because its easier to keep your "worlds" straight when events mesh.
ah, my mistake.
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[Post 5]
Author : dopplegager
Date : Aug 8, 2007 06:12 pm
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
I used to only make mine marvel. But one day i thought "im getting a little sick of the x-men" , whos goin to remember what happened in such and such new issue in 5 years. The stories just stopped seeming to matter. Sure we get some charactorization but no real charactor growth. They all seemed to jsut stagnate. I cant stand superman so I figured Batman should be fine and here comes superman in a batman issue. To make a long story short i read more topcow and darkhorse then marvel and pretty much no dc. not that i dont like anyone in the dc universe. I just cant stand superman.
Float On
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[Post 6]
Author : KenB3
Date : Aug 8, 2007 10:01 pm
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
Well, Marvel and Dc have shared universes. Their heroes fight, team up with each other, trade villains and so forth. It makes sense that people would try to follow one universe. If Spidey teams up with the Fantastic Four when you read his book, it's more likely to arouse your curiousity about their book as opposed to just picking up something at random. Or if you were daunted by it, then they'd stick with indy comics. Image kinda had a shared universe thing for a little while, but it didn't really stick.
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[Post 7]
Author : Alan Lynch
Date : Aug 9, 2007 04:48 am
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
You could say the same for sports - people tend to support only one football team with a passion, and usually for life. Music too. People will follow one particular artist over others. I think Brand loyalty is actually more common than you think. Clothing brands, I know plenty of people that will only wear specific brands. Car’s, plenty of people will find a manufacturer they like, and then stick with that manufacturer. Electrical appliances, again, people will tend to buy from the same manufacturer (not everybody, but you’ll find a lot of people do).
I think you misunderstood me; none of those are really comparable to comics. Cars, clothes and electrical good all have real measures of quality beyond personal taste, or genuine practical differences to suit different needs. Following one musician isn't the same as buying everything put out by Marvel. If you bought everything put out on a certain record label then maybe, but that's much rarer than in comics. Sport is...a whole other thing entirely. It often involves no enjoyment whatsoever, sadly.
It’s all about finding your tribe - there was a really interesting show on TV the other week about how people use brands to identify themselves. It’s a lot more widespread than simply comics, and only buying from a particular publisher.
Again, not saying it isn't. Just that comics are a pretty unique situation here.
i'd have to disagree with this. I think it’s 50/50 at the least. i would say 50% of fans who only read brand A do have a degree of animosity towards people who only read brand B. just like I think there is a lot of snobbery with reader’s too, over what people read, and by who.
Like yourself and X-Men readers, for instance :P
I think there are a lot of people who get dickish about these things, but I wouldn't say it's as much as a 50/50 split. Just speaking from what I've seen anyway.
Well, Marvel and Dc have shared universes. Their heroes fight, team up with each other, trade villains and so forth. It makes sense that people would try to follow one universe. If Spidey teams up with the Fantastic Four when you read his book, it's more likely to arouse your curiousity about their book as opposed to just picking up something at random.
Yup, pretty much. It's another reason a lot of people might not try something new. And there's a fair chance you'll like what you see within a company telling stories in a shared universe, since there's a familiar feel about it. Certainly in a place like Marvel where everything is seemingly being tied into a given year's big event.
Or if you were daunted by it, then they'd stick with indy comics. Image kinda had a shared universe thing for a little while, but it didn't really stick.
God, Image's schedule alone would make that impossible to keep up with.
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[Post 8]
Author : Anthony Devlin
Date : Aug 9, 2007 05:35 am
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
Again, not saying it isn't. Just that comics are a pretty unique situation here.
I still disagree. For me it still boils down to brand loyalty. And I don’t see how that is different to buying a certain artist over another. or, supporting a particular team over another. Basically, buying only Marvel is no different to me buying All Saints clothes. I know there are other brands both better, worse, cheaper and far more expensive, but I like what All Saints produces and therefore stick with them. I’m the same with Apple products. If I can buy an Apple version of it then I will. why? because I like the brand and therefore will stick with it. maybe I’m being a little dense here, but I just don’t see how it’s unique in any shape to comics alone?
but dont get me wrong, I do appreciate that there are significant aspects that are unique to comics – they have so many titles that share the same universe that people feel they need to buy everything just to keep afloat of events, but I just don’t understand this either. When it comes to superhero titles I buy WildStorm, they have a shared universe but I don’t feel the need to buy all the titles they produce at all. Yeah things will happen in one title that will inevitably affect something in a title I buy, but there hardly that complex that I can’t guess what that is for myself, or use a message board to find out what I’m missing.
I think for the most part its brand loyalty – I’ve bought such and such since I was a child, so I feel out of a sense of loyalty to the brand. And then we have the comfort zone – bought from a particular publisher for so long that irrespective of that quality of the books, they feel comfortable with what they know and stick with it.
Like yourself and X-Men readers, for instance :P
:LOL: I don’t hate the x-men. I don’t understand the ‘without question’ devotion some fans have to that particular sub-brand.. but that’s more to do with the continual loop that those books find themselves stuck in. it’s a victim of its on success in that respect. I also don’t understand arguments that some have used that they continue buy the title out of sense of loyalty, even after they admit that they don’t get much by way of enjoyment out of them anymore. But again, this is a mindset that can be seen elsewhere too.
I think there are a lot of people who get dickish about these things, but I wouldn't say it's as much as a 50/50 split. Just speaking from what I've seen anyway.
I don’t think anyone could exactly pinpoint the exact percentage here. But there is brand snobbery, and there is animosity usually born of that brand snobbery. personally I won’t read Marvel at the moment. not because I’m being a snob, but because they don’t produce anything I’m interested in. do I resent people for only buying Marvel? hell no! I’ll admit I really don’t get the fascination people seem to have with Marvel titles, but I don’t care enough to bear any animosity towards anyone.. not past the point of winding people up. What really does annoy me, and I see a lot of it about, is people constantly moaning about the way a certain title it performing, yet continue to go out and buy it each month( what the hell is that all about?). Maybe it’s just me, but if I feel a title is continually underperforming them I drop it, and come back to it when I start to hear positive things being said. :ohwell:
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[Post 9]
Author : Janne Pietikainen
Date : Aug 9, 2007 09:17 am
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
Great column, Alan! :cheers:
My name is Janne and I'm a Marvel Zombie. :shame: When I was young, Marvel had stuff that interested me the most. Marvel still publishes more great stuff than I can afford to buy (sometimes you just need to look outside the top-selling books), so I haven't had the need to start buying other publishers' comics. Also, I like the whole continuity thing to some extent, and I really wouldn't even have the time (I have comics from last year that I still haven't had time to read).
Although I've started to read some other comics that my library has, like Maus and some Alan Moore stuff, and I find them utterly fascinating. If I was rich, I would buy some of these, but until then, I'll be nerding in the library.
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[Post 10]
Author : Alan Lynch
Date : Aug 9, 2007 10:34 am
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
I still disagree. For me it still boils down to brand loyalty. And I don’t see how that is different to buying a certain artist over another. or, supporting a particular team over another. Basically, buying only Marvel is no different to me buying All Saints clothes. I know there are other brands both better, worse, cheaper and far more expensive, but I like what All Saints produces and therefore stick with them. I’m the same with Apple products. If I can buy an Apple version of it then I will, why, because I like the brand and therefore will stick with it. maybe I’m being a little dense here, but I just don’t see how it’s unique in any shape to comics alone?
It's different for comics - I think - because I can't think of another entertainment medium where people will disregard a whole swathe (is that a word? I'm sure it is, and I have an English degree...) of things based purely on who releases them. I get what you're saying about clothes and electronics, but for me the big difference is that they have practical applications which require them to function in a certain way. Plus it's rare that people would just decide early on to stick to only All Saints gear; a lot of comic fans won't have tried anything other than their chosen company. If I wasn't in work I'm sure I could find a way to phrase this better...
Besides, the larger point is that people aren't in a position to recommend new things if they won't do it themselves. I'm trying to encourage more folks to buy the weird books you like; stop making it harder :P
What really does annoy me, and I see a lot of it about, is people constantly moaning about the way a certain title it performing, yet continue to go out and buy it each month( what the hell is that all about?). Maybe it’s just me, but if I feel a title is continually underperforming them I drop it, and come back to it when I start to hear positive things being said. :ohwell:
Keeping a run going or whatever. Yeah, I don't get that either. Never, ever have. Maybe we're just not rich enough to keep buying things we don't like?
Although I've started to read some other comics that my library has, like Maus and some Alan Moore stuff, and I find them utterly fascinating. If I was rich, I would buy some of these, but until then, I'll be nerding in the library.
I almost danced a jig the day I found comics in my library. I've discovered so many new and wonderful books there.
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[Post 11]
Author : Janne Pietikainen
Date : Aug 9, 2007 12:05 pm
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
I almost danced a jig the day I found comics in my library. I've discovered so many new and wonderful books there.
My problem is that my library isn't that huge, so the best known stuff is always on the go. Fortunately I still have plenty of stuff to choose from. I've been meaning to try some Eisner.
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[Post 12]
Author : Anthony Devlin
Date : Aug 9, 2007 08:12 pm
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
Besides, the larger point is that people aren't in a position to recommend new things if they won't do it themselves. I'm trying to encourage more folks to buy the weird books you like; stop making it harder :P
oh! :LOL:
erm.
stop reading only Marvel people.. it'll make you go blind. :P
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[Post 13]
Author : dopplegager
Date : Aug 9, 2007 10:54 pm
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
alan lynche
It's different for comics - I think - because I can't think of another entertainment medium where people will disregard a whole swathe (is that a word? I'm sure it is, and I have an English degree...) of things based purely on who releases them.
I'm going to have to disagree. One of my friends is a huge lakers fan and I'll admit that I'm a jazz fan. Derick Fisher played for utah last year and my friend hated him even though just a couple years before he was suiting up in a lakers jersey. Now he is going to suit up for the lakers again this yeah and my friend is hyped up about it. I don't see how that is any different then liking marvel over dc or vice versa.
I own all the Beatles albulms but I cant really stomach the stones. I wear aeropostle over old navy. There really isnt much of a differance in quality at least with the clothes but it is a brand preferance that extends to comics just as it extends to everything else. Like using tap water to bottled water like evian water (spelled Naive backwards). I just dont see how any of this is different. Some people like Jay Leno some David Letterman, abc nbc or cbs. Others like things put out by a certain director (yeah I'm talking to you Joss Whedon fans) or production company like disney. They just buy it to buy it and thats that.
FLOAT ON
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[Post 14]
Author : SuperGirl
Date : Aug 10, 2007 05:03 am
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
If you asked me last year, I would've said I was a DC fanatic. However, since most of the DC books I'm reading have had a serious drop in quality since Infinite Crisis and at the moment I am reading more Marvel than DC I think I count myself as a fan of GOOD comic books. Some of them are DC, some of them are Marvel... some of them are even IDW.
I think in the long run I'll always side with DC, but I am not as fanatic about my opinions as I was last year.
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[Post 15]
Author : harlekein
Date : Aug 11, 2007 06:51 pm
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
I've come to refer to fanatic DC Comics fans as "DC Deadheads".
This was actually the subject of one of my own columns that I had once planned to enter into One-Shots or save for my own column series so you got my interest from the word 'go'.
Good read, Alan.
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The messages has been download from Comixfan Forums at http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums at 05.10.2007 08:23:41
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THREAD : WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
Started at Aug 8, 2007 12:15 pm by Nick Costanzo
Visit at http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/showthread.php?t=42745
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[Post 1]
Author : Nick Costanzo
Date : Aug 8, 2007 12:15 pm
Title : WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
By Alan Lynch, shabbasnake@hotmail.com
May Cause Discomfort
A funny thing happens amongst comics fans which I can’t honestly say I’ve seen repeated in other media. A strange thing we fans are often guilty of, frequently without even realising it. It’s nothing to be ashamed of really, it’s just something you don’t see carrying over into our DVD collections.
Company loyalty.
Very often – and I’ve been around the online comic community long enough to state this as fact – fans will gladly describe themselves as Marvel Zombies, or…DC fans (I don’t know if they have a nickname. Feel free to educate me). The closest things I can think of in other forms of entertainment are the Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo zealots you see around sometimes, but a lot of the time those guys are dicks. With comic readers who stick by any one company I find that for the most part there’s no real animosity towards anyone else. They just prefer one company’s output above all others to the point of not paying attention to a lot of books. It’s comfortable for them.
Like I say, it’s not anything I’m going to judge someone on. I’ve often said around here that I grew up a Marvel reader, almost exclusively. There are usually very good reasons for things like that: in my instance, all that was available to me was old Marvel reprints from Panini. I didn’t read a non-DC book until I discovered a Death of Superman TPB hiding in my local library, and it was another couple of years before I found a real comic store. A lot of people will have started in the same way, reading whatever was at hand regardless of publisher. And it is a really hard habit to break; I’d been reading comics for 5 or 6 years before finding a store, and was naturally drawn towards what I knew. I’m still largely ignorant of big things like Infinite Crisis, the Multiverse and what have you. They passed me by totally.
Then you have to look at how the big two publishers have very much applied a style across their individual playing fields. Big events set the tone for these shared universes, so you find plots and styles can stay similar across several books; this helped by having the same writers on various books as well. There isn’t really an analogous situation in any other entertainment industry: record labels, book publishers, film studios and the like generally don’t let one work influence what happens in another. So like I say, company loyalty of the kind we often engage in is perfectly understandable. It’s one of our funny, unique little quirks.
So what exactly is my point? It’s quite simple really. As much as I understand people sticking to one company’s output, it doesn’t help when it comes to getting new readers involved. As I’ve said previously (for those who’ve been paying attention; you’d almost think I had a plan here), you are going to be any new readers’ first point of contact. They will ask your recommendation, and you can’t let your own prejudice (or ignorance, but they’re both such negative words) prevent you from recommending a book you think they might like. But if all you read are, for instance, Marvel titles, then you won’t ever be able to point someone towards a whole host of books out there. DC and their imprints, Image, IDW, Avatar etc – all publishers putting out books which appeal to different readers. All really keen to win over new readers.
You really have to believe me here – I can’t possibly judge or criticise anyone who sticks with one publisher. Maybe you don’t know anything else. Maybe you’ve found a style which suits you. Maybe you like the talent pool found at one company. Maybe you’ve never found anything you like elsewhere. But I’d like, with your help, to phase this kind of thinking out. If we want to pull in new readers then we have to educate ourselves almost as much as we do them. Forever living in the a comfort zone like that makes you ill equipped to help other people out of theirs; and that won’t do at all.
So when you next get the chance, try something new. How you decide what is up to you – hunt around the fine review section here; read the solicitations, interviews, previews; ask other people; find a creator you like. Whatever. Neither do I really care where you get the title in question. Personally, my library has a hell of a lot of strange books I’ve never looked at before. Some books are available – legally – online. If you’re rich then just pick up something from your store. But take that step; be brave, be uncomfortable, even if just this once. If you’re lucky then you’ll find something new and wonderful to read and tell your friends about and, and we can all help the industry grow. If you’re not then at worst you’ll have lost a couple of pounds. Or whatever passes for money in the colonies.
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Alan Lynch read old Marvel comics for so long he lived several years under the mistaken impression that Stegron didn’t suck.
<center><hr width=75%></center>
The opinions expressed in this column are solely those of the writer, and are not reflective of Comixfan or its other staff in general.
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[Post 2]
Author : Anthony Devlin
Date : Aug 8, 2007 12:39 pm
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
The closest things I can think of in other forms of entertainment are the Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo zealots you see around sometimes, but a lot of the time those guys are dicks.
You could say the same for sports - people tend to support only one football team with a passion, and usually for life. Music too. People will follow one particular artist over others. I think Brand loyalty is actually more common than you think. Clothing brands, I know plenty of people that will only wear specific brands. Car’s, plenty of people will find a manufacturer they like, and then stick with that manufacturer. Electrical appliances, again, people will tend to buy from the same manufacturer (not everybody, but you’ll find a lot of people do). It’s all about finding your tribe - there was a really interesting show on TV the other week about how people use brands to identify themselves. It’s a lot more widespread than simply comics, and only buying from a particular publisher.
With comic readers who stick by any one company I find that for the most part there’s no real animosity towards anyone else.
i'd have to disagree with this. I think it’s 50/50 at the least. i would say 50% of fans who only read brand A do have a degree of animosity towards people who only read brand B. just like I think there is a lot of snobbery with reader’s too, over what people read, and by who.
There isn’t really an analogous situation in any other entertainment industry: record labels, book publishers, film studios and the like generally don’t let one work influence what happens in another. So like I say, company loyalty of the kind we often engage in is perfectly understandable. It’s one of our funny, unique little quirks.
Yes they do. Hollywood is forever milking concepts from one film and putting them in other films in order to capitalise on the success a particular film might have. so one film can clearly have an influence on what type of movie comes out over a period of time. And I’d say the same with Music. Spice Girls were launched there wasn’t another girl band on the scene. They suddenly explode up the charts and her presto, every Record Label has their own home-grown girl band. And it’s not only in these two specific areas. Influence is apparent in other places, which again, are very much part of the ‘customer loyalty’ crowd.
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[Post 3]
Author : Sullosar
Date : Aug 8, 2007 04:28 pm
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
Yes they do. Hollywood is forever milking concepts from one film and putting them in other films in order to capitalise on the success a particular film might have. so one film can clearly have an influence on what type of movie comes out over a period of time. And I’d say the same with Music. Spice Girls were launched there wasn’t another girl band on the scene. They suddenly explode up the charts and her presto, every Record Label has their own home-grown girl band. And it’s not only in these two specific areas. Influence is apparent in other places, which again, are very much part of the ‘customer loyalty’ crowd.
I have to say, for this point, I believe you misunderstood what he was saying.
Let's say 20th Century Fox makes a movie in which they blow up the Chrysler Building. If they make another movie, completely unrelated to the first, normally they would not include a big crater where the Chrysler Building used to be.
Whereas in comics, if the building was blown up in one Marvel comic, it is normally blown up in all Marvel comics within that continuity.
His point is that, in this instance, brand loyalty makes some more sense, because its easier to keep your "worlds" straight when events mesh.
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[Post 4]
Author : Anthony Devlin
Date : Aug 8, 2007 04:53 pm
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
His point is that, in this instance, brand loyalty makes some more sense, because its easier to keep your "worlds" straight when events mesh.
ah, my mistake.
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[Post 5]
Author : dopplegager
Date : Aug 8, 2007 06:12 pm
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
I used to only make mine marvel. But one day i thought "im getting a little sick of the x-men" , whos goin to remember what happened in such and such new issue in 5 years. The stories just stopped seeming to matter. Sure we get some charactorization but no real charactor growth. They all seemed to jsut stagnate. I cant stand superman so I figured Batman should be fine and here comes superman in a batman issue. To make a long story short i read more topcow and darkhorse then marvel and pretty much no dc. not that i dont like anyone in the dc universe. I just cant stand superman.
Float On
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[Post 6]
Author : KenB3
Date : Aug 8, 2007 10:01 pm
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
Well, Marvel and Dc have shared universes. Their heroes fight, team up with each other, trade villains and so forth. It makes sense that people would try to follow one universe. If Spidey teams up with the Fantastic Four when you read his book, it's more likely to arouse your curiousity about their book as opposed to just picking up something at random. Or if you were daunted by it, then they'd stick with indy comics. Image kinda had a shared universe thing for a little while, but it didn't really stick.
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[Post 7]
Author : Alan Lynch
Date : Aug 9, 2007 04:48 am
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
You could say the same for sports - people tend to support only one football team with a passion, and usually for life. Music too. People will follow one particular artist over others. I think Brand loyalty is actually more common than you think. Clothing brands, I know plenty of people that will only wear specific brands. Car’s, plenty of people will find a manufacturer they like, and then stick with that manufacturer. Electrical appliances, again, people will tend to buy from the same manufacturer (not everybody, but you’ll find a lot of people do).
I think you misunderstood me; none of those are really comparable to comics. Cars, clothes and electrical good all have real measures of quality beyond personal taste, or genuine practical differences to suit different needs. Following one musician isn't the same as buying everything put out by Marvel. If you bought everything put out on a certain record label then maybe, but that's much rarer than in comics. Sport is...a whole other thing entirely. It often involves no enjoyment whatsoever, sadly.
It’s all about finding your tribe - there was a really interesting show on TV the other week about how people use brands to identify themselves. It’s a lot more widespread than simply comics, and only buying from a particular publisher.
Again, not saying it isn't. Just that comics are a pretty unique situation here.
i'd have to disagree with this. I think it’s 50/50 at the least. i would say 50% of fans who only read brand A do have a degree of animosity towards people who only read brand B. just like I think there is a lot of snobbery with reader’s too, over what people read, and by who.
Like yourself and X-Men readers, for instance :P
I think there are a lot of people who get dickish about these things, but I wouldn't say it's as much as a 50/50 split. Just speaking from what I've seen anyway.
Well, Marvel and Dc have shared universes. Their heroes fight, team up with each other, trade villains and so forth. It makes sense that people would try to follow one universe. If Spidey teams up with the Fantastic Four when you read his book, it's more likely to arouse your curiousity about their book as opposed to just picking up something at random.
Yup, pretty much. It's another reason a lot of people might not try something new. And there's a fair chance you'll like what you see within a company telling stories in a shared universe, since there's a familiar feel about it. Certainly in a place like Marvel where everything is seemingly being tied into a given year's big event.
Or if you were daunted by it, then they'd stick with indy comics. Image kinda had a shared universe thing for a little while, but it didn't really stick.
God, Image's schedule alone would make that impossible to keep up with.
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[Post 8]
Author : Anthony Devlin
Date : Aug 9, 2007 05:35 am
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
Again, not saying it isn't. Just that comics are a pretty unique situation here.
I still disagree. For me it still boils down to brand loyalty. And I don’t see how that is different to buying a certain artist over another. or, supporting a particular team over another. Basically, buying only Marvel is no different to me buying All Saints clothes. I know there are other brands both better, worse, cheaper and far more expensive, but I like what All Saints produces and therefore stick with them. I’m the same with Apple products. If I can buy an Apple version of it then I will. why? because I like the brand and therefore will stick with it. maybe I’m being a little dense here, but I just don’t see how it’s unique in any shape to comics alone?
but dont get me wrong, I do appreciate that there are significant aspects that are unique to comics – they have so many titles that share the same universe that people feel they need to buy everything just to keep afloat of events, but I just don’t understand this either. When it comes to superhero titles I buy WildStorm, they have a shared universe but I don’t feel the need to buy all the titles they produce at all. Yeah things will happen in one title that will inevitably affect something in a title I buy, but there hardly that complex that I can’t guess what that is for myself, or use a message board to find out what I’m missing.
I think for the most part its brand loyalty – I’ve bought such and such since I was a child, so I feel out of a sense of loyalty to the brand. And then we have the comfort zone – bought from a particular publisher for so long that irrespective of that quality of the books, they feel comfortable with what they know and stick with it.
Like yourself and X-Men readers, for instance :P
:LOL: I don’t hate the x-men. I don’t understand the ‘without question’ devotion some fans have to that particular sub-brand.. but that’s more to do with the continual loop that those books find themselves stuck in. it’s a victim of its on success in that respect. I also don’t understand arguments that some have used that they continue buy the title out of sense of loyalty, even after they admit that they don’t get much by way of enjoyment out of them anymore. But again, this is a mindset that can be seen elsewhere too.
I think there are a lot of people who get dickish about these things, but I wouldn't say it's as much as a 50/50 split. Just speaking from what I've seen anyway.
I don’t think anyone could exactly pinpoint the exact percentage here. But there is brand snobbery, and there is animosity usually born of that brand snobbery. personally I won’t read Marvel at the moment. not because I’m being a snob, but because they don’t produce anything I’m interested in. do I resent people for only buying Marvel? hell no! I’ll admit I really don’t get the fascination people seem to have with Marvel titles, but I don’t care enough to bear any animosity towards anyone.. not past the point of winding people up. What really does annoy me, and I see a lot of it about, is people constantly moaning about the way a certain title it performing, yet continue to go out and buy it each month( what the hell is that all about?). Maybe it’s just me, but if I feel a title is continually underperforming them I drop it, and come back to it when I start to hear positive things being said. :ohwell:
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[Post 9]
Author : Janne Pietikainen
Date : Aug 9, 2007 09:17 am
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
Great column, Alan! :cheers:
My name is Janne and I'm a Marvel Zombie. :shame: When I was young, Marvel had stuff that interested me the most. Marvel still publishes more great stuff than I can afford to buy (sometimes you just need to look outside the top-selling books), so I haven't had the need to start buying other publishers' comics. Also, I like the whole continuity thing to some extent, and I really wouldn't even have the time (I have comics from last year that I still haven't had time to read).
Although I've started to read some other comics that my library has, like Maus and some Alan Moore stuff, and I find them utterly fascinating. If I was rich, I would buy some of these, but until then, I'll be nerding in the library.
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[Post 10]
Author : Alan Lynch
Date : Aug 9, 2007 10:34 am
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
I still disagree. For me it still boils down to brand loyalty. And I don’t see how that is different to buying a certain artist over another. or, supporting a particular team over another. Basically, buying only Marvel is no different to me buying All Saints clothes. I know there are other brands both better, worse, cheaper and far more expensive, but I like what All Saints produces and therefore stick with them. I’m the same with Apple products. If I can buy an Apple version of it then I will, why, because I like the brand and therefore will stick with it. maybe I’m being a little dense here, but I just don’t see how it’s unique in any shape to comics alone?
It's different for comics - I think - because I can't think of another entertainment medium where people will disregard a whole swathe (is that a word? I'm sure it is, and I have an English degree...) of things based purely on who releases them. I get what you're saying about clothes and electronics, but for me the big difference is that they have practical applications which require them to function in a certain way. Plus it's rare that people would just decide early on to stick to only All Saints gear; a lot of comic fans won't have tried anything other than their chosen company. If I wasn't in work I'm sure I could find a way to phrase this better...
Besides, the larger point is that people aren't in a position to recommend new things if they won't do it themselves. I'm trying to encourage more folks to buy the weird books you like; stop making it harder :P
What really does annoy me, and I see a lot of it about, is people constantly moaning about the way a certain title it performing, yet continue to go out and buy it each month( what the hell is that all about?). Maybe it’s just me, but if I feel a title is continually underperforming them I drop it, and come back to it when I start to hear positive things being said. :ohwell:
Keeping a run going or whatever. Yeah, I don't get that either. Never, ever have. Maybe we're just not rich enough to keep buying things we don't like?
Although I've started to read some other comics that my library has, like Maus and some Alan Moore stuff, and I find them utterly fascinating. If I was rich, I would buy some of these, but until then, I'll be nerding in the library.
I almost danced a jig the day I found comics in my library. I've discovered so many new and wonderful books there.
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[Post 11]
Author : Janne Pietikainen
Date : Aug 9, 2007 12:05 pm
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
I almost danced a jig the day I found comics in my library. I've discovered so many new and wonderful books there.
My problem is that my library isn't that huge, so the best known stuff is always on the go. Fortunately I still have plenty of stuff to choose from. I've been meaning to try some Eisner.
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[Post 12]
Author : Anthony Devlin
Date : Aug 9, 2007 08:12 pm
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
Besides, the larger point is that people aren't in a position to recommend new things if they won't do it themselves. I'm trying to encourage more folks to buy the weird books you like; stop making it harder :P
oh! :LOL:
erm.
stop reading only Marvel people.. it'll make you go blind. :P
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[Post 13]
Author : dopplegager
Date : Aug 9, 2007 10:54 pm
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
alan lynche
It's different for comics - I think - because I can't think of another entertainment medium where people will disregard a whole swathe (is that a word? I'm sure it is, and I have an English degree...) of things based purely on who releases them.
I'm going to have to disagree. One of my friends is a huge lakers fan and I'll admit that I'm a jazz fan. Derick Fisher played for utah last year and my friend hated him even though just a couple years before he was suiting up in a lakers jersey. Now he is going to suit up for the lakers again this yeah and my friend is hyped up about it. I don't see how that is any different then liking marvel over dc or vice versa.
I own all the Beatles albulms but I cant really stomach the stones. I wear aeropostle over old navy. There really isnt much of a differance in quality at least with the clothes but it is a brand preferance that extends to comics just as it extends to everything else. Like using tap water to bottled water like evian water (spelled Naive backwards). I just dont see how any of this is different. Some people like Jay Leno some David Letterman, abc nbc or cbs. Others like things put out by a certain director (yeah I'm talking to you Joss Whedon fans) or production company like disney. They just buy it to buy it and thats that.
FLOAT ON
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[Post 14]
Author : SuperGirl
Date : Aug 10, 2007 05:03 am
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
If you asked me last year, I would've said I was a DC fanatic. However, since most of the DC books I'm reading have had a serious drop in quality since Infinite Crisis and at the moment I am reading more Marvel than DC I think I count myself as a fan of GOOD comic books. Some of them are DC, some of them are Marvel... some of them are even IDW.
I think in the long run I'll always side with DC, but I am not as fanatic about my opinions as I was last year.
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[Post 15]
Author : harlekein
Date : Aug 11, 2007 06:51 pm
Title : Re: WELCOME TO THE LIFE #3: MAY CAUSE DISCOMFORT
I've come to refer to fanatic DC Comics fans as "DC Deadheads".
This was actually the subject of one of my own columns that I had once planned to enter into One-Shots or save for my own column series so you got my interest from the word 'go'.
Good read, Alan.
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The messages has been download from Comixfan Forums at http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums at 05.10.2007 08:23:41