X-Men Forever

[scottmdavis]

Originally Posted by William Keogh

*does the math, figuring in difference between time zones...*

1 PM, huh? That's rotten luck.

My LCS gets it in by eleven.

They get them in at 10:30am, but they take forever to go through them and sort them out in to the pull boxes and put away on to the shelves.

[Beast]

Tom Brevoort recently answered a question on Formspring that can almost relate to the constant arguments on what people consider "Bad Characterization" in regard to Jean, Scott, and Jean's choice of romantic partners. And I'll quote..

Q: I think some of the Fraction hate is his blatant bias. He goes out of his way to make Scott and Emma too cool and their love too special. It feels SO wrong. Isn't it wrong for a writer to be that blatantly bias?

A: I think it's your bias that's showing here. I've said before that I don't quite get the Scott/Emma relationship, but Matt certainly buys into it, and he writes it that way. That's not bias, that's writing the characters the way you think they are and ought to be. The fact that it feels SO wrong to you is indicative of teh fact that you want something else--Jean back, or Scot to be with someone else, or Emma to be with someone else, or something.

In other words, the writer has the final say in how the characters act. Whether it's Scott/Jean or Scott/Emma.
If fans disagree with something the characters do, it's often their own bias at work in regard to it.
All writers are going to at times have different interpretations of characters from you. It does not make them wrong.

[zonzorp]

Originally Posted by Beast

Tom Brevroot recently answered a question on Formspring that can almost relate to the constant arguments on what people consider "Bad Characterization" in regard to Jean, Scott, and Jean's choice of romantic partners. And I'll quote..

Enough people want something else - something other than Fraction - that Second Coming boosted UXM sales are still below ordinary non-crossover pre-Fraction sales.
Bring on something else.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by zonzorp

Enough people want something else - something other than Fraction - that Second Coming boosted UXM sales are still below ordinary non-crossover pre-Fraction sales.
Bring on something else.

That isn't even the point. And all comic sales are down across the board.
The top selling books are barely breaking the 100K sales mark. They're all way down.

[zonzorp]

Originally Posted by Beast

That isn't even the point. And all comic sales are down across the board.
The top selling books are barely breaking the 100K sales mark. They're all way down.

People will still buy crossovers and event issues.
Brightest Day #0 was close to 130,000.
The last UXM was close to 74,000.
It isn't just the market, it's the content.

[Beast]

Originally Posted by zonzorp

People will still buy crossovers and event issues.
Brightest Day #0 was close to 130,000.
The last UXM was close to 74,000.
It isn't just the market, it's the content.

Again.... all comic sales across the board are down. That is a fact.
We're in the middle of tough times for the comic industry. Most don't even hit 100K anymore.
You can't compare the first issue of a new series, where the highest sales occur, with regular numbers.
And given that Uncanny was the #6 Highest Selling Book on the market that month, that proves the point.

[Jack C]

Originally Posted by Beast

Tom Brevoort recently answered a question on Formspring that can almost relate to the constant arguments on what people consider "Bad Characterization" in regard to Jean, Scott, and Jean's choice of romantic partners. And I'll quote..

In other words, the writer has the final say in how the characters act. Whether it's Scott/Jean or Scott/Emma.
If fans disagree with something the characters do, it's often their own bias at work in regard to it.
All writers are going to at times have different interpretations of characters from you. It does not make them wrong.

You're right, Beast. It doesn't make them wrong. It doesn't make them right either. These writers have a lot of power in their hands with respect to these characters and as a lifetime of Spider-Man comics has taught us all, with great power comes great responsibility. So it is possible for a writer to act irresponsibly in their handling of the character. It can affect sales, reviews, and fan sentiment. Marvel is a business and if the consumers of their products aren't feeling satisfied even after they purchase a product, that's going to affect their business in the long run.

Now I think Fraction has done a great job on many parts of Uncanny, but I would agree with the sentiment that he is a little overt in his bias towards Scott and Emma at times. Writers like Morrison and Whedon took these characters to new areas, but they were not irresponsible. They did actually build a plot around these major shake-ups. I get the sense Fraction has tried, but not very hard. Maybe I'm wrong. That's just me. But for any writer, their bias is a lot more important than that of readers. They have the power to shape the course of these characters. If they're irresponsible in how they convey them, then I don't think it's right to defend them and just accept it. These are iconic characters for a lot of people. If they're mishandled, why shouldn't we debate it?

[Beast]

Way to miss the point. And I'll spare my thoughts on Morrison and Whedon. Ugh.

The fact of the matter is, these people are hired by Marvel and bring their own views to the characters they write. If they move them in new directions or directions that some fans don't like, it doesn't mean they don't get the character or are disrespecting the character. It's simply how they view the character and the story they are telling. As long as they don't do things that signifigantly violate the character, like making them baby eaters... who's to say they're doing a disservice to the character.

In the end, we're all fans reading what the professionals offer as their view who these characters are in their minds. Whether we like or don't like the story is the point that should be discussed. Because while we have our views of the characters, we certainly don't have any greater insight to these characters than the people who are hired to write them. It's not like we're talking about fanfiction, thank god. These people arn't just fanboys who think they know the characters better than the writers.

But I'll likewise spare you my thoughts on fan fiction writers as well. Since I don't wanna get off topic.

[Obsonator]

The biggest issue that I have these days is the repeated inclusion of memorable one-liners. Thank God Claremont has seen fit not to reduce his writing to that.

[David Branson]

Originally Posted by Beast

...and Magneto defeating the SK in a manner that he was ashamed of.

Slash! Slash! Slash! Slash! Slash!!

[Beast]

Originally Posted by David Branson

Slash! Slash! Slash! Slash! Slash!!

That is kinda what went through my mind for a second as well.

[Jack C]

Originally Posted by Beast

Way to miss the point. And I'll spare my thoughts on Morrison and Whedon. Ugh.

The fact of the matter is, these people are hired by Marvel and bring their own views to the characters they write. If they move them in new directions or directions that some fans don't like, it doesn't mean they don't get the character or are disrespecting the character. It's simply how they view the character and the story they are telling. As long as they don't do things that signifigantly violate the character, like making them baby eaters... who's to say they're doing a disservice to the character.

In the end, we're all fans reading what the professionals offer as their view who these characters are in their minds. Whether we like or don't like the story is the point that should be discussed. Because while we have our views of the characters, we certainly don't have any greater insight to these characters than the people who are hired to write them. It's not like we're talking about fanfiction, thank god. These people arn't just fanboys who think they know the characters better than the writers.

But I'll likewise spare you my thoughts on fan fiction writers as well. Since I don't wanna get off topic.

What about the sales aspect? The editors don't just give the writers the characters to play with in a sandbox. They expect them to tell stories that sell. And if they move characters in a direction that fans don't like, that will hurt sales. I still don't get why you think it's wrong to question a writer's handling of the characters because in a sense they're fans like we are. A lot of them admit in interviews they are comic fans like us at heart. And since most of the writers working today did not create these characters, they are in a sense doing with some fanfiction writers do. But their work is more professional and legitimate. As such, it's more scrutinized. It may just be my experience in writing materials that aren't fiction, but there is an element of scrutiny both in terms of how a piece is received by readers and how it's handled on the back end because one does tend to effect the other.

But I digress. You and I will NEVER agree on anything it seems, Beast. It seems whatever view I hold, you hold the opposite. We're like each others' bizzarro counterpart. So I suppose it's pointless to keep arguing.

[zonzorp]

When I was posting last night, I didn't even notice that this was the "Forever" thread. But since it is, I have to say that invoking Matt Fraction to make a point about Chris Claremont's insight into the X-Men is far beyond bizarre. Fraction has demonstrated little to no insight into his cast. CC did more than anyone else to make most of those characters what they became.

[William Keogh]

Okay, everyone. Let's play nice.

razem frazem...

[John H]

Picked up issues 23 and 24.
23 has some very sweet art! It calls to mind Art Adams. This guy needs an ongoing book asap, I'd buy based on the art alone.

[scottmdavis]

Buchemi will be doing more art work on the second arc on XMF Vol 2.

[John H]

I thought it was strange that the SPOILER! Avengers and Defenders were in costume for Beast's funeral and the X-men were in civilian clothes. And at Logan's funeral (IRRC) everyone was in civilian clothes.

I've really enjoyed this first year of XMF. Oh another thing, the SPOILER! Shi'ar mention the the X-Men faced the Warskulls a few months ago. That little preview was a nice touch, in the way that it connects to the past and continues those events into the present.

Oh yeah, Trask mentions that her SPOILER! armor is made of vibranium which is only found in Wakanda and Storm is the current ruler there.

[William Keogh]

Hey, we're past 1000 posts.

New thread will be up shortly, and this one will be closed down...