Comixfan Round Table #3 - All Things LOST (tv show)

[John H]

LOST did for televised episodic storytelling what hadn't been seen or achieved before. And it did it with great success, both in popularity and in the stories it told. Mixing so many diverse elements, but LOST would be nothing without its wonderful characters.

Alister Hooke: Sawyer was by far my favourite character. Ben Linus and John Locke were pretty riveting. But the cool bad boy wins hands down. Effortlessly cool and outstanding in the 5th season as the Dharma security chief.

John H: I was glued to the screen when Eko was on, what a strong presence.

Kevin Williams: They all had different aspects that appealed to me. Probably Hurley as he could always defuse any situation with a simple "Dude". I had a lot of fun hating on Ben Linus as well.

Clay Olsen: Favorite character is rather easy... Ben (followed closely by Locke, Hurley, and Des.)

William Keogh: Favourite character: hard to say. Certainly Locke has to rate up there, and I've loved Jacks' personal journey over the years. I think three characters resonate for me more then others. Hurley, who starts as the comic relief, became the very heart of the survivors, and very much the core of the show. Jin and Sun, who initially came across in one way, as we see them develop, became an emotional rock for the show, and seeing them both as a couple and separated over the course of the series really stayed with me.

John: Lost really pulled in a lot of talented actors. Plus it had such a diverse cast, they brought a very worldly feel to the show.

William: I definitely agree that it was always a treat to see Penny in whatever capacity they had her in, and the same went with Bernard and Rose.

John: Rose! In a show drenched with action, drama, danger and chaos... Rose possessed a great unmoving faith.

William: Obviously no-one will choose Nikki and Paolo for a favourite character, so what about characters we didn't like, or were indifferent to?

John: Ben's father was a least favorite character. And Eloise and Charles Widmore. I thought Charles Widmore could have benefited from a flashback origin.

William: Eloise and Widmore were characters that certainly could have used a bit more fleshing out. I think Ana Lucia was one of these characters that didn't work for me.

Alister: I found the character of Claire a bit lacking. I can't put my finger on it. Her character didn't click with me (or perhaps the acting left me cold), and I felt indifferent toward her throughout the show.

William: I'm rather indifferent to Libby as a character. Maybe it was the actress, maybe it was just the way she was written...

Kevin: Initially I didn't have much time for Libby, but as series 2 went on I started enjoying her and her developing relationship with Hurley. I got the feeling that there were bigger things planned for her following the revelations that she was in fact a psychiatric patient. I wonder if an outline of her overall story arc exists somewhere?

John: I also wanted more back story about Libby and more about the Others. There was a sheriff that branded Juliette and the smoke monster reacted to the brand.

Kevin: I was disappointed, that with the exception of Bernard, all the survivors from the tail section were killed off. This was due to real-world circumstances, but I still feel a little cheated that we didn't get to see the full stories intended for these other Lostees.

William: I'd have liked to see more of Eko, particularly something in the last season, even just a brief scene.

John: I thought the back-story for Boone was weak. And I didn't need to know about Jack's tattoos.

William: The Jacob and MiB origin, which would have worked better earlier in the season, but just felt out of place where they aired it.

Clay: The weakest of all was definitely Jack's tattoos. Pointless in pretty much all respects and a time-killer if there ever was one.

William: The Nikki and Paolo flashback, even though it did the audience the favour of getting rid of the pair.

Clay: See, I liked the Nikki and Paolo episode... I hated the characters but it was a nice attempt at exploring the other 40 odd background survivors. Yes, it was a stalling episode and didn't move the main plot that much forward it did tie several other plot points from the first couple seasons together... notably who was really talking to Michael on the computer in the Swan... plus it had Billy Dee Williams in it.

John: I liked that episode too and others like it, Michael's search for Walt/Others and Claire's flashback to her abduction, episodes that helped to fill in the little gaps of island happenings.

Kevin: While I didn't care for Nikki and Paolo as characters, I enjoyed the episode more than I thought I would have. Besides, I can't be the only person who really wanted to see Expose as a 13 episode mid-season replacement, can I?

John: I really wanted to see where or maybe who the Man in Black (MiB) was during the 1970s and who in Dharma had knowledge of the Smoke Monster to build a sonar fence and build a house over that Smoke Monster summoning site?

Clay: Smokey's whereabouts in the '70's, that's a good question. I would have loved to have seen more of Ben's time as leader in between the purge in '92 and Juliet's arrival in '01.

Alister: I don't recall the Man in Black during the 1970s, nor the building of the Dharma house over a summoning site. This proves to me that we were bombarded with countless details that may have been important to the mythology and general mood of LOST, but were too numerous to keep track of.

John: Definitely agree. You don't want to be spoon fed, but vague connections and reading between the lines only goes so far to resolve some of the dangling mysteries.

Alister: There came a point mid-way through the final season when I knew that there were too many unresolved plot points to settle before the end. Some unanswered questions I could live with, but others were difficult to take. For example, I wasn't going to lose any sleep about not knowing the truth about polar bears and other apparitions on the island. But the abandonment of the Libby-Hurley past connection was a sore point. The revelation that she was a fellow psychiatric patient from Hurley's past was explosive, and the potential for further exploring that revelation was deeply exciting. But like many important plot threads (important in the eyes of many fans, that is), this one was frustratingly dropped. The same maddening thing happened with young Walt's paranormal potential. We were misdirected, believing it would come to something significant only to see it disappear permanently from view, and I think that the plot writers got that particular one wrong as well.

Clay: See in my mind much of that was perfectly well explained in the series. Especially the polar bears (brought by the DI to the island for research) and Libby (mental breakdown after her husband died). I wish Walt in general was more explored, but I think they carried over the "special" children mystery fairly well with both Ben and Locke. At least they're giving a little epilogue scene on the DVD set with Walt, Hurley and Ben on the island.

William: Part of the inherent problem with Walt was selecting a child actor and creating a situation where the first three seasons were taking place over a limited amount of time, well, the actor would outgrow the part. It might have been acceptable to bring him back in and flesh that out after the time jumps, but they never really ran with that idea.

Alister: I was glad that the Jacob mystery was unraveled - at least up to a point - and I really enjoyed the 'Cain and Abel' history of Jacob and his brother. So some mysteries were given reasonably good closure. Just a pity that the Libby and Walt ones were both left hanging in the air.

William: I do agree; these are the sort of plot lines that didn't get revisited, and perhaps because there was more than they really could answer by the time they came to a point where they could start charting the end.

Clay: When the main storyline (the island) was weak the B-story (flashback/forward/sideways) was usually interesting. That's one of the advantages of the dual-story system they employed.

Kevin: Looking back on it now, most of the first season could be classified as filler leading up to the opening of the hatch - and what a crappy cliffhanger that was to hand fans at the end of your first season by the way. While the mythology of the show was advanced somewhat week by week, it was painfully slow in coming and I found it easier to watch the show in batches of 2 or 3 episodes at a time in order to get some meaningful advancement of the mythos and characterisation. I think the decision to end the show after 6 series focused the main plot and cut out the decompressed storytelling.

John: LOST had this great mythology and storyline, unlike Star Trek Next Generation which was for the most part an adventure story of the week (except for the Klingon and Borg storylines). Or X-Files which every once in a while did a story focused on the show's mythology. B5 is the only other show that comes to mind that had a mythology strung through it and a defined story arc with a predetermined end, (though it had filler episodes).

Clay: As for other shows that had continuing storylines? Stargate comes to mind with a continuing storyline... while mostly an adventure of the week, it's later seasons kept the over-arching plotlines mentioned throughout the seasons. Heroes (at least the seasons I watched) also had the episodic storytelling, as did Twin Peaks (if I remember it right). And then there's the Sopranos and Dead Wood...

Kevin: I'd add the new/relaunched Doctor Who series to that list. Each series so far has a watchword permeating the episodes and resolving in each series finale. In theory, the first 4 series (and the 2009 specials) could be considered as continuing and they played into the very final adventure of the Tenth Doctor

Alister: LOST was wonderfully relentless and dense in its mythology-building, in contrast to The X-Files and Fringe which are both sparing in their mythology-building. There are advantages and disadvantages to that kind of approach. The main advantage is that the fans are treated to a rich and multi-layered mythology that constantly intrigues and draws them in. The main disadvantage is a case of serious overload where detail is piled on detail almost to the point of collapse, so that it becomes difficult to tell what is important from what is merely incidental. I feel that the writers in their quest to not spoon-feed the fans - an action which clearly has its merits - nevertheless piled on the mythology so thick that at times I couldn't (and still can't) see the wood for the trees. A little more discipline, pruning, signposting or answers to questions wouldn't have gone amiss as far as I am concerned. Having said that, the truth is I loved the constant mythology-building. It's what made the show so exciting and downright addictive.

Kevin: Personally, for me, I view the finale as being in two halves; the resolution to the issues going on on the island and the big reveal about the flash-sideways.

The final closure to the mystery of the island, Jacob, candidates and what the hell the whole six years had been about was as good as I could have hoped for at that point. There were no earth-shattering reveals, people lived, people died (if anything about Lost was constant, it was the fact that people died, and quite often prominent characters and quite suddenly), people got off the island and the big bad was defeated. We didn't get all the answers to all the remaining questions, but if felt like after 6 years of being on this journey there was an end to it.

And the end to this discussion will be revealed in part two this Thursday. where we discuss the big finale, the flash-sideways, our favorite moments and what lent to the show's success!

The opinions expressed in The Round Table are solely those of the writers, and are not reflective of Comixfan or its staff in general.

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[William Keogh]

And so here we are with this one. Good work, John!

[Radiate]

What, no Sayid love?! Not one mention of his awesome coolness, kick-assery and general man-legend status? As you can see, Sayid was my favourite character purely based on how much ass he kicked - remember him breaking that Other's neck with his legs when his hands were tied? Remember when he killed that assassin by tripping him up onto an opened dishwasher with knives pointing out? Remember when he sacrificed himself despite being "souless"? He was an all-round great character.

I only started to like Sawyer in Season 5, especially when he was with Juliette. An inspired piece of storytelling to put them together.

I have to ask you guys though - do you think Lost benefitted from its shorter seasons and promise of an definitive last season? In terms of the latter, here in the UK we have shorter seasons and so we have less filler episodes (though they do creep in). I found that Lost's shorter seasons really cut the fat and every episode was important. So I wonder if mainstream US shows should start adopting this...despite the unrealistic notion that networks would ever allow it lol.

RADIATE!

[Alister Hooke]

Originally Posted by Radiate

I have to ask you guys though - do you think Lost benefitted from its shorter seasons and promise of an definitive last season? In terms of the latter, here in the UK we have shorter seasons and so we have less filler episodes (though they do creep in). I found that Lost's shorter seasons really cut the fat and every episode was important. So I wonder if mainstream US shows should start adopting this...despite the unrealistic notion that networks would ever allow it lol.

I think that shorter seasons from the start would have definitely improved the first three bloated seasons, which also could benefitted from being condensed into two lean & mean seasons instead. But it was the marked drop in viewing figures which jolted the Lost team into shortening the seasons and announcing an end date. This led to a marked improvement in the show and also heightened viewer expectations. It was a bold and clever move, but it came late in the day out of necessity rather than creativity.

By way of a contrast, the writer JMS stuck to his guns with Babylon 5 and fought with the TV network to keep the show down to five seasons rather than further extending it till it faded or failed. He had a precise story to tell and he would not deviate, with the result that it is now hailed as a classic of the sci-fi TV genre. The modern Battlestar Galactica series was to adopt the same kind of disciplined approach to some considerable success as well. Imo, they should have gone down the same route with Lost, deciding on the story that they wanted to tell and how long they wanted to tell it for. I believe that all of its faults, including a lack of focus in the first half and an ending that didn't satisfy many fans, was rooted in a lazy and somewhat greedy "let's see how long we can spin this one out and keep the fans hooked" mindset. When that happens, the underlying motive is money rather than creativity. JMS raised a refreshing and all too infrequent banner for creativity, and the producers of Lost should have followed suit.

[John H]

Short seasons from the get-go, likely would not have give enough stories to get vested in. Season 2 was when the show started to delve more into "nested" storylines, the hatch led to the Swan led to Ben led to the Map and led to the Others.

[William Keogh]

I think it benefitted to have an end-date in sight, so that they could wrap things up on their own grounds.

It's a bit sad when, for example, a long running series is suddenly yanked without really being able to go out on its own terms. Law and Order, for example...

[Alister Hooke]

Originally Posted by William Keogh

I think it benefitted to have an end-date in sight, so that they could wrap things up on their own grounds.

It's a bit sad when, for example, a long running series is suddenly yanked without really being able to go out on its own terms. Law and Order, for example...

I know what you mean. I was really disappointed when The 4400 went out with no satisfactory ending. The list goes on: Dollhouse, Heroes, etc. Though some would argue that the latter deserved the plug being pulled after lazy, unfocused writing bogged it down (but what a first great season!).