Unresolved Plots/Old Storylines

[Wolverine]

Originally Posted by i_am_daemon

I might be wrong but I thought there were two Delgado's. One was a SHIELD agent and then the other was the Acolyte. I seem to remember Agent Delgado being captured along with some other operatives, Nance Winters may be included as well, and taken aboard Asteroid M/Avalon.

Right you are. There are two Delgados and they can both be seen in the same panel, side by side in X-men 1.

I suspect it was a continuity error.

[jrnewto]

Hi Chris,

Keen on knowing whether you have any cosmic-centric plots planned like those in Uncanny Annual 11 and Excalibur 25, as they began wonderfully tying in the concept of mutants to the underpinning structure of Marvel’s cosmic origins.

I was always curious what the purpose was behind those *cosmic* scenes in Excalibur 25. In this issue Galactus claims “I am the Then… the Now… the Yet to Be. Mine own Alpha and Omega. Beginning and End.”

I’m not sure why but I seem to scenes from this issue reminding me of the flashback in panel 6 on page 16 of UXM 107 where Lilandra recalls her brother, D’Ken, discovering “the existence and location of an ancient… force. The deadliest weapon in history…”

The giant being standing in the background of the panel wears a costume similar to that of Galactus, though it appears to be slightly less intricate with some sort of spaceship floating in the background behind him.

The ancient scene is obviously depicting an event which occurred on THE WORLD!

I think the name of the ancient planet is another one of your sly clues

Recall how Galactus’s spacecraft is referred to a *WORLDship*.

If we forget his *cosmic destiny* as later outlined by John Byrne for a moment, were you intending the giant being depicted in this scene to be an earlier version of Galactus and he had originated from the race that was alleged to have built great cities on this ancient planet?

Were you going to reveal that the nine Deathstars had aligned above The World and Galactus was THE SCIENTIST who had heroically constructed the M’Kraan Crystal in order to contain the destructive energy of the *neutron galaxy*? Had he succeeded, but was exposed to its *negative energies* which cursed him with his renowned *hunger*! In Uncanny 203 legend recalled that The World was “the first planet to form… and bring forth life… after creation”, while the creators of the M’Kraan Crystal named it *The End of All That Is.* Comparing this with Galactus’s above comments about being *Beginning and End* was this meant as a further clue into your original intentions?

Was the ancient planet on which the M’Kraan Crystal was established, which came to be known simply as *The World*, was previously known as Taa?

You mention in both Uncanny 108 and 203 that the race that lived there built great cities and Galactus reveals in Thor 169 that the ancient planet called Taa had the most advanced, enlightened, and wondrous civilisation ever to have existed in the universe.

Galactus further reveals to Thor that Taa, and its whole sector of space, was dying of some sort of plague that somehow confounded the attempts of its inhabitants to cure it and *The World* was noted to be so distant from everything that there were no individual stars within its sector of space, save for the nine Death-Stars in the sky above it.

If *The World* is Taa I would suggest that no stars exist in its sector of space because the *plague* had caused them to die.

Nevertheless, Galactus recounts how one Taa scientist, for unrevealed reasons, decided to mount a final space expedition into the heart of a star, to go out in a blaze of glory, as it were.

The radiation of the star killed everyone aboard the craft except for that one scientist, who somehow survived and evolved into a new form of life.

Incubating for eons, it finally emerged as the godlike and hungry Galactus we know today.

But no mention of the Star is made thereafter.

It is interesting that you have Nova, in Excalibur 25, shout out in terror to her master, Galactus, that “the Stars, they are going out”, which Roma notes “IS PHOENIX”.

Does this suggest the *plague* that appeared to be causing everything in Taa’s sector of space to be dying was in fact connected with *The Phoenix*?

It never quite made sense before why *The Scientist* who would become Galactus would mount an expedition into the heart of the star to cure the plague.

Did the Taa scientist discover major *solar flare* activity coming from the Star and determine this must be where the plague that was causing the whole sector of space to be dying was originating?

Then, when he breaches the massive star does he discover that it had given birth to *The Phoenix* which had caused it to go supernova and begin collapsing into a *neutron star*.

Unspecified is how the Taa scientist survives but I suspect it has something to do with time being different for a neutron star.

However I will posit that the reason he emerges with “the hunger” we know today is due to his being infected with the so-called “plague” of the *neutron star*, but manages to contain it within the Sphere that he places within the ancient city of the planet Taa around which he constructs the M’Kraan Crystal.

[Dr. Noh]

Re. Selene:

If, as jrnewto[ has stated, Selene wielded the Phoenix Force...it's an interesting fact that she managed to survive, while Jean Grey (pre-retcons) killed herself from the strain of that power. Selene's mutant powers are stated to be "insatiable" and perhaps that matched the needs of the Phoenix Force rather well. And ironically, Jean was supposed to be Selene's so-called "replacement" in the Hellfire Club.

I also find it interesting that Layla Miller has brought Trevor Fitzroy back from the dead right around the time of the Necrosha storyline. This made no sense to me until I recalled that Fitzroy was one of Selene's pawns in the Hellfire Club (re. X-MAN #17), and IMO the winner of the Upstarts contest, the definite former owner of an entire planet (re. BISHOP: The Last X-Man) as well as a source of alien weaponry (re. UXM Annual #17).

IMO, when Selene controlled Fitzroy, all of his victories transferred to her since it's never been stated that she let go of her control over him.

Selene creating Fitzroy into her pawn was perhaps done due to his earlier treatment of her in UXM #301. At this point, I don't expect too many writers to remember these things.

It's also rather silly that during the 1990's, Selene apparently never made it to survive in Cable's era when she is probably just as powerful and influential as Apocalypse. She is never mentioned at all. IMO, the other Externals (except for Apocalypse) seem rather irrelevant compared to her.

[Michael Regan]

Originally Posted by Dr. Noh

It's also rather silly that during the 1990's, Selene apparently never made it to survive in Cable's era when she is probably just as powerful and influential as Apocalypse. She is never mentioned at all. IMO, the other Externals (except for Apocalypse) seem rather irrelevant compared to her.

Just because she if not mentioned does not mean that she is not there.

[Clay Olsen]

Originally Posted by jrnewto

Hi Chris,

Keen on knowing whether you have any cosmic-centric plots planned like those in Uncanny Annual 11 and Excalibur 25, as they began wonderfully tying in the concept of mutants to the underpinning structure of Marvel’s cosmic origins.

I was always curious what the purpose was behind those *cosmic* scenes in Excalibur 25. In this issue Galactus claims “I am the Then… the Now… the Yet to Be. Mine own Alpha and Omega. Beginning and End.”

I’m not sure why but I seem to scenes from this issue reminding me of the flashback in panel 6 on page 16 of UXM 107 where Lilandra recalls her brother, D’Ken, discovering “the existence and location of an ancient… force. The deadliest weapon in history…”

The giant being standing in the background of the panel wears a costume similar to that of Galactus, though it appears to be slightly less intricate with some sort of spaceship floating in the background behind him.

The ancient scene is obviously depicting an event which occurred on THE WORLD!

I think the name of the ancient planet is another one of your sly clues

Recall how Galactus’s spacecraft is referred to a *WORLDship*.

If we forget his *cosmic destiny* as later outlined by John Byrne for a moment, were you intending the giant being depicted in this scene to be an earlier version of Galactus and he had originated from the race that was alleged to have built great cities on this ancient planet?

Were you going to reveal that the nine Deathstars had aligned above The World and Galactus was THE SCIENTIST who had heroically constructed the M’Kraan Crystal in order to contain the destructive energy of the *neutron galaxy*? Had he succeeded, but was exposed to its *negative energies* which cursed him with his renowned *hunger*! In Uncanny 203 legend recalled that The World was “the first planet to form… and bring forth life… after creation”, while the creators of the M’Kraan Crystal named it *The End of All That Is.* Comparing this with Galactus’s above comments about being *Beginning and End* was this meant as a further clue into your original intentions?

Was the ancient planet on which the M’Kraan Crystal was established, which came to be known simply as *The World*, was previously known as Taa?

You mention in both Uncanny 108 and 203 that the race that lived there built great cities and Galactus reveals in Thor 169 that the ancient planet called Taa had the most advanced, enlightened, and wondrous civilisation ever to have existed in the universe.

Galactus further reveals to Thor that Taa, and its whole sector of space, was dying of some sort of plague that somehow confounded the attempts of its inhabitants to cure it and *The World* was noted to be so distant from everything that there were no individual stars within its sector of space, save for the nine Death-Stars in the sky above it.

If *The World* is Taa I would suggest that no stars exist in its sector of space because the *plague* had caused them to die.

Nevertheless, Galactus recounts how one Taa scientist, for unrevealed reasons, decided to mount a final space expedition into the heart of a star, to go out in a blaze of glory, as it were.

The radiation of the star killed everyone aboard the craft except for that one scientist, who somehow survived and evolved into a new form of life.

Incubating for eons, it finally emerged as the godlike and hungry Galactus we know today.

But no mention of the Star is made thereafter.

It is interesting that you have Nova, in Excalibur 25, shout out in terror to her master, Galactus, that “the Stars, they are going out”, which Roma notes “IS PHOENIX”.

Does this suggest the *plague* that appeared to be causing everything in Taa’s sector of space to be dying was in fact connected with *The Phoenix*?

It never quite made sense before why *The Scientist* who would become Galactus would mount an expedition into the heart of the star to cure the plague.

Did the Taa scientist discover major *solar flare* activity coming from the Star and determine this must be where the plague that was causing the whole sector of space to be dying was originating?

Then, when he breaches the massive star does he discover that it had given birth to *The Phoenix* which had caused it to go supernova and begin collapsing into a *neutron star*.

Unspecified is how the Taa scientist survives but I suspect it has something to do with time being different for a neutron star.

However I will posit that the reason he emerges with “the hunger” we know today is due to his being infected with the so-called “plague” of the *neutron star*, but manages to contain it within the Sphere that he places within the ancient city of the planet Taa around which he constructs the M’Kraan Crystal.

I beleive I remember reading that Taa and its ruined cities still exist though... in the heart of the Negative Zone's destructive Maelstrom. I don't remember any particular connection with the M'Kraan Crystal to it though... then again the Crystal and the Negative Zone can be used to traverss the multiverse... Supposedly Galan was the only survivor from his universe when it collapsed into the big bang...

Galan Taa was transformed into Galactus by the old universe's version of Eternity (who himself is connected to the Pheonix Force)... And is meant to be a balancing force between life and death and creation and destruction (between Eternity and Mistress Death, much as the In-Betweener is between Master Order and Lord Chaos, and Anomaly is between Infinity and Oblivion)

[Dr. Noh]

To jrnewto and everyone, re. Galactus & the Phoenix:

What a story. I honestly had no idea of it until I read about it here. It's amazing how the apparent destruction of Galactus, the space-going scientist, mirrors what happened to Jean Grey in Jamaica Bay, NY. Both worked out of self-sacrifice. Their experiences with the M'krann Crystal left them both with a planet destroying hunger.

If what you state is what Chris Claremont intended, then Galactus is to an extent "infected" with Dark Phoenix energy. Both Galactus and Dark Phoenix in particular have a great deal in common, IMO.

Does this story somehow lead back to the Shadow King?

This makes me wonder the real reason why Charles Xavier invaded and co-opted Lilandra's mind, making her fall in love with him, and the real reason behind their subsequent marriage. Lilandra was initially shown in CLASSIC X-MEN backup stories as a student, with no skill at leading empires at all. The Shi'ar are known for their fear of the Phoenix and their ties to the M'krann Crystal.

I wonder if Professor X having a long-standing struggle against the Shadow King plays a part in his ongoing ties with the Shi'ar royal house. If X-TREME X-MEN Annual #1 states that the Shadow King's mental control over him was the true reason behind Xavier not curing Rogue of her powers (for instance), then perhaps his control of Xavier was intended to play a part in Xavier staying married to a colonial ruler, yet speaking of equality and peace. In short, perhaps it's a case of the Shadow King attempting to access the M'Krann Crystal or somehow the Phoenix??? Does he really need it??

If the Shadow King is so powerful, why would he need a Shadow Queen?? If he had control over Charles Xavier and the Professor has ties to the M'Krann Crystal, does the Shadow King really need human allies??

I wonder if Chris Claremont went back and forth with such ideas and plotlines. Jean Grey and her many spin-off characters played more of a role in the books he later wrote than Galactus did (AFAIK), yet Galactus played a major part in it.

And the more I read of Chris Claremont's official hand in this, the more I see how much Jean Grey is an earlier "powerful female spin-off" or "parallel" character compared to Galactus.

Chris Claremont did this with many characters including Magik and Nightcrawler, Lady Mastermind and Jason Wyngarde, and Sage and Bishop.

[Dr. Noh]

Re. Selene, and how it all links back to the Phoenix:

Originally posted by Michael Regan:

Just because she if not mentioned does not mean that she is not there.

To start, I wonder if Layla Miller is somehow working under Selene's command, given the apparent insanity of Layla resurrecting Trevor Fitzroy. With his control as the Chronomancer, Fitzroy can turn back time and make death irrelevant -- and this seems in keeping with what Selene wants.

Given his success with a planet takeover and untold access to alien weaponry, Fitzroy appears like the X-Cutioner, but with a bigger and more successful vision.

Now:

Thanks to jrnewto for opening my mind to this.

Given how the direction of 1990's X-Books appeared quite male oriented with the men of the Summers family taking a lead beyond few others, I doubt Selene had any real role in Cable's era except to get out of the way so a male character could lead. Even Rachel Summers (another wielder of the Phoenix Force) was just a "mentor" character who was physically "killed off" early in the story of how Cable arrived to the future (re. THE ADVENTURES OF CYCLOPS & PHOENIX #1-#4).

Except, perhaps Selene is there, but not physically.

Just my theory:

In order to win the Highlord Ascension, an External (or Highlord) had to kill all the others. And IMO none seemed a real threat except for Selene and Apocalypse who eventually rules the Earth in Cable's era (re. X-FORCE #17 vol. 1). In fact, Rachel always retained a portion of the Phoenix Force after ridding herself of most of it, and actually fought Apocalypse with this fraction of cosmic power -- but she was defeated. It probably wouldn't be the first time Apocalypse defeated a weak version of the Phoenix anyway, since he needed to kill Selene as well.

If Selene retained a portion of the Phoenix, this is probably how a "vampire" like her can bestow immortality to others in the Upstarts storyline, since giving life is not her original mutant power (AFAIK). If the future Apocalypse killed and absorbed Selene then perhaps to a certain extent, her retained Phoenix Force + his Celestial technology enabled him to defeat Rachel Summers, the Mother Askani.

Who knows, maybe this is the further cause of Apocalypse needing new host bodies due to the fact that his power burned out the other shells and knowing more of the Phoenix could save him. Like Dark Phoenix, his hunger was ever-present and literally self-destructive. Perhaps this is another clue that Selene was not only defeated, but "absorbed" -- another parallel to the Immortals from the Highlander franchise that the Highlords are based off anyway.

In the "Endgame" (X-FACTOR #65-#68) story by Chris Claremont with a plot by Jim Lee, Earth-616 (mainstream) Apocalypse was apparently on the verge of taking over the Inhuman Royal House by corrupting some of its members who became the original Dark Riders, the Riders of the Storm. By taking over the infant Nathan Summers in this story, mainstream Apocalypse would also have control of the Phoenix via Madelyne Pryor.

And with that power (according to his statements in X-FACTOR #50's Acts of Vengeance story), he would travel time in order to defeat everyone who ever hurt or posed a threat to him. I'm not sure if Loki is more powerful than Selene, yet in this story, mainstream Apocalypse nearly killed him:

http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/issues...p?fldAuto=4819

As a total aside, it's funny how the later movie Highlander 4 was also called "Endgame"...

[Clay Olsen]

Originally Posted by Dr. Noh

To jrnewto and everyone, re. Galactus & the Phoenix:

What a story. I honestly had no idea of it until I read about it here. It's amazing how the apparent destruction of Galactus, the space-going scientist, mirrors what happened to Jean Grey in Jamaica Bay, NY. Both worked out of self-sacrifice. Their experiences with the M'krann Crystal left them both with a planet destroying hunger.

I fail to see any real parallel with Jean Grey in Jamaica Bay, at least not at first. Galan of Taa did not sacrifice himself. His universe was already dying and collapsing into a single point. Taa's civilization was one of the last still in existence. Lethal radiation caused by the death of the universe was wiping out life. Galan was dispatched to travel through the cosmos to find a means of saving Taa, but he didn't find one. The radiation then killed off all but a tiny fraction of the population of Taa. Knowing their deaths were inevitable, Galan proposed to the remaining survivors that they die gloriously by flying their last starship straight into the cosmic maelstrom. As they approached the center of the maelstrom, the intense cosmic radiation killed all the passengers except Galan.

At that point there are parallels. Galan hears a (Eternity's) voice telling him that he will serve in the next universe and is transformed into Galactus... a being of pure cosmic energy (no his true form is not that of a man in a purple costume... every being see's him differently when they look upon him, from a giant starfish-like entity to the more familiar humaniod interpretation). He incubated for a few billion years until finally being awoken by a war between the archeopian's (the inhabitants of the planet he was orbiting) and another invading stellar race that thought his cocoon was a weapon.

Originally Posted by jrnewto

Hi Chris,

Keen on knowing whether you have any cosmic-centric plots planned like those in Uncanny Annual 11 and Excalibur 25, as they began wonderfully tying in the concept of mutants to the underpinning structure of Marvel’s cosmic origins.

I was always curious what the purpose was behind those *cosmic* scenes in Excalibur 25. In this issue Galactus claims “I am the Then… the Now… the Yet to Be. Mine own Alpha and Omega. Beginning and End.”

As for Galactus's I am the Alpha and Omega... that would more than likely refer to his birth and his destiny... his death, at which point, the universe will stop expanding and begin contracting to him... eventually destroying the universe and beginning the cycle over again with a new big-bang.

Originally Posted by jrnewto

Recall how Galactus’s spacecraft is referred to a *WORLDship*.

Taa II is called a worldship... because its larger than several planets put together. It holds the remains of the entire Archeopia Star System within it. He is commonly not depicted on or with-in it though. Most often he flies around in either the smaller "winged" ship... or the Ball. both of which are essentially "shuttles" for him.

Originally Posted by jrnewto

If we forget his *cosmic destiny* as later outlined by John Byrne for a moment, were you intending the giant being depicted in this scene to be an earlier version of Galactus and he had originated from the race that was alleged to have built great cities on this ancient planet?

Not sure why the destiny needs to be forgotten... Excalibur 25 was written after Byrne's destiny was... plus it better ties him to the phoenix (especially if you count the Phoenix as a part of Eternity... or even as a substitute for Anomaly as the middle of the Oblivion-Infinity triad.)

It was long established before that Galactus was not from the present universe way back in Thor... so I can't see CC suggesting Galactus was from there...

Originally Posted by jrnewto

Were you going to reveal that the nine Deathstars had aligned above The World and Galactus was THE SCIENTIST who had heroically constructed the M’Kraan Crystal in order to contain the destructive energy of the *neutron galaxy*? Had he succeeded, but was exposed to its *negative energies* which cursed him with his renowned *hunger*! In Uncanny 203 legend recalled that The World was “the first planet to form… and bring forth life… after creation”, while the creators of the M’Kraan Crystal named it *The End of All That Is.* Comparing this with Galactus’s above comments about being *Beginning and End* was this meant as a further clue into your original intentions?


Was the ancient planet on which the M’Kraan Crystal was established, which came to be known simply as *The World*, was previously known as Taa?

I don't think he was implying it was Taa. Nor is there really any reason to suspect that it was. There were many races running around the universe by the time Galactus awoke and fed on his first world.

I could see it being the Procillian Homeworld... from the origin of the Watchers. They were one of the first races... and used the technology the watchers gave them to destroy themselves. It could possibly even by the Watcher's homeworld... none of them live there any longer. Or the unknown/unrevealed world (possibly Tyanna) that produced the Ultimate Nullifier (which would make a bit of sense given its powers).

Also i was wrong in my previous post... Taa was destroyed and consumed in the collapse of the previous universe... the planet at the heart of hte Negative Zone's Maelstrom is Tyanna. The ultimate source of all life and civilization of the Natives of the Negative Zone... but could also be a contender for the world you are looking for.

Originally Posted by jrnewto

But no mention of the Star is made thereafter.

It was not a "star" they flew into... it was the "cosmic crunch"

Originally Posted by jrnewto

Does this suggest the *plague* that appeared to be causing everything in Taa’s sector of space to be dying was in fact connected with *The Phoenix*?

it wasn't a sector of space... it was the entire universe. Taa was the last inhabited world. It was connected only in the sense that the Pheonix Force is connected with cycle of death and rebirth in the universe.

Originally Posted by jrnewto

It never quite made sense before why *The Scientist* who would become Galactus would mount an expedition into the heart of the star to cure the plague.

he was not trying to cure anything when he flew into the maelstrom. it was merely to die and see what was there. All hope of a "cure" was already gone.

Originally Posted by jrnewto

However I will posit that the reason he emerges with “the hunger” we know today is due to his being infected with the so-called “plague” of the *neutron star*, but manages to contain it within the Sphere that he places within the ancient city of the planet Taa around which he constructs the M’Kraan Crystal.

no... he emerges with the hunger because he is the balancing force of nature, of creation and destruction. He feeds to stave off the destruction of the universe. Taa was annihilated before this universe began. The nuetron galaxy and the M'kraan Crystal are from the modern universe where Galactus already existed, even if he was not awake.

[Dr. Noh]

I wonder if this storyline re. Galactus and the Phoenix somehow ties to the Alan Davis EXCALIBUR story of the Anti-Phoenix.


Re. My thoughts on Weapon X, Black Air & the Phalanx:

I also wonder if Gregory Terraerton, the Weapon X soldier known as Slayback (re. DEADPOOL: Circle Chase #1-#4) was an early experiment with the Phalanx.

Later books revealed that Slayback is from Melbourne Australia, yet initially this wasn't clear -- making it more likely that he was perhaps supposed to hail from England, the home of Black Air.

It wouldn't be the only time a X-Character's country of origin was retconned. Maggott for instance, was supposed to be from Australia but was retconned with a South African origin.

The Phalanx was a creation of international governments and their spy agencies, including Genosha, Black Air and Operation: Zero Tolerance in plans for world takeover as well as the creation of super soldiers and anti-mutant trackers and killers. These entities used alien DNA in their efforts, as EXCALIBUR vol. 1, #88-#100 all feature.

And Peter Wisdom had ties to Genosha from his first appearance in EXCALIBUR #86 as a Black Air agent who was later experimented upon in a secret Black Air hangar with alien DNA from the Uncreated (re. EXCALIBUR #90). Peter Wisdom arrived to this hangar due to his investigation of Black Air secrecy regarding the death of his friend, who died from a Uncreated alien bite.

AFAIK, the Phalanx was created from Technarchy DNA, the same Techno-Organic substance that Warlock and Douglock are both made of. Possibly Skrull DNA was used in earlier Phalanx experiments as EXCALIBUR #90 implies. However, the Phalanx always acted as if it had a "hive mind", unlike Skrulls.

Both Warren Ellis' EXCALIBUR and Fabian Nicieza's CABLE and X-FORCE storylines used real time in their plots, which makes it even more likely that Slayback was created or experimented upon in the early 1980's, around the time when Black Air kept aliens and their DNA in its possession (re. EXCALIBUR #90).

Although Slayback was in the same Canadian-based program at the same time as his co-workers, Deadpool and Garrison Kane, the location really doesn't mean very much due to the international scope of this super soldier program. Douglock is a much later hybrid of the Technarchy + human DNA but IMO, Slayback was a historically earlier example.

Also:

1. Onslaught, via his ties to the London Hellfire Club and his takeover of a Sentinel plant should not get forgotten in this plot, as well. The Otherworld and the Braddock family's involvement in anti-mutant ammunition also play a part in this story.

2. I also think it's strange that once the Phalanx (similar to Warlock's Techno-Organics) combined with the Celestial-created Professor, the Professor was no longer able to remain near Cable, who also had Celestial-created Techno-Organics in his system. It was clear that the Celestial tech was more powerful than that of the Phalanx, so why was there a problem??

[superzeroe]

okay, someone help. just read the Beast mini series from '97. in it, Karma's siblings are aged and have inhuman appearances. the next time we see Karma's siblings, to the best of my knowledge, is in the Mekanix limited, where, unexplained, they appear to be normal looking children. was this change ever explained? did i miss it somewhere?

[neith]

Well, in X-Force # 75, which came out before (long time before Mekanix) it was stated by Karma that some doctors were trying to find a way to un what Spiral did to them.

[Dr. Noh]

1. With his major history of mental imbalance, why was it considered a good idea to give Prof. Xavier the Mind Infinity Gem that could give someone mental domination of the entire Earth, for instance?? AFAIK, he's still in possession of it.

2. Many fans write of how Cyclops left his wife Madelyne Pryor for Jean Grey, but IIRC, didn't Lockheed leave his own "wife" in order to stay with Kitty Pryde? The retaliation of Lockheed's mate towards his actions led to the death of Amiko's family in Japan.

3. Has Uatu the Watcher ever been caught due to his interference during Onslaught?

[Zach Kinkead]

Originally Posted by Dr. Noh

2. Many fans write of how Cyclops left his wife Madelyne Pryor for Jean Grey, but IIRC, didn't Lockheed leave his own "wife" in order to stay with Kitty Pryde? The retaliation of Lockheed's mate towards his actions led to the death of Amiko's family in Japan.

The X-Men in general seem to be a collection of negligent (or downright unfaithful) spouses and deadbeat parents. They must pick it up from Chuck. No wonder Scott was his favorite student.

What about the bastard children Colossus and Wolverine left behind in Antarctica? I guess what happens in the Savage Land stays in the Savage Land.

[David Branson]

Originally Posted by Zach Kinkead

What about the bastard children Colossus and Wolverine left behind in Antarctica? I guess what happens in the Savage Land stays in the Savage Land.

To be fair, neither of them know about them.

I suspect that they might be parents of a couple of GeNext characters, and I'm pretty sure that Sabreclaw in MC-2 could be Logan's son from the Savage Land.

For a while, Marvel was saying that the Savage Land adventure was no longer in 616 continuity, but I don't really know if that's the case. (It came up when people were asking about X-23 and Daken and Logan offspring in general.)

[Zach Kinkead]

Originally Posted by David Branson

To be fair, neither of them know about them.

RE Colossus: Given the context of the story, he’d have to be completely clueless not to know that was his kid. Of course this IS Colossus we’re talking about.

(And don’t get me started on his behavior on Battleworld.)

RE Wolverine: Fair point. I know the kid’s parentage is still a point of contention among FANS (if Eric is reading this … sorry for reopening that can of worms).

Stupid related question: When did he learn about Daken and what happened to Amiko?

[Sidney Osinga]

Both children are included under Known Relatives in the characters' latest Handbook entries.

[Zach Kinkead]

Originally Posted by Sidney Osinga

Both children are included under Known Relatives in the characters' latest Handbook entries.

Yes, but that doesn’t answer my question.

Did Wolverine know about Daken before he showed up in the present? If so was it one of those things he forgot but suddenly remembered after House of M or did he always know.

And what happened to the little girl that Wolverine “adopted”? Do they not have child protective services in Japan (or Madapor or wherever she is now)? Surely someone has noticed that James abandoned a small child on the other side of the planet.

Basically I want to know how much of a deadbeat dad Wolverine is and why no one is calling him on it when they won't shut up about Cyclops dumping baby Cable in the future*.

*He did it to save Nate’s life! It isn’t like he dumped his kid in a mental institution and forgot about him … like Chuck did.

[Sidney Osinga]

Originally Posted by Zach Kinkead

Yes, but that doesn’t answer my question.

Did Wolverine know about Daken before he showed up in the present? If so was it one of those things he forgot but suddenly remembered after House of M or did he always know.

And what happened to the little girl that Wolverine “adopted”? Do they not have child protective services in Japan (or Madapor or wherever she is now)? Surely someone has noticed that James abandoned a small child on the other side of the planet.

From what I understand, while he did know his Japanese wife Itsu was pregnant, he assumed the child had been killed with her and didn't know Daken existed until recently. Daken, however, was told that he did.

As for Amiko, he let Yukio raise her until it was discovered that she was the latest in a line of female mystical warrior monks and left to be trained as the leader's successor.

[Madelyne]

Originally Posted by Dr. Noh

2. Many fans write of how Cyclops left his wife Madelyne Pryor for Jean Grey, but IIRC, didn't Lockheed leave his own "wife" in order to stay with Kitty Pryde? The retaliation of Lockheed's mate towards his actions led to the death of Amiko's family in Japan.

She was neither his wife nor his mate. She was a large dragon who fell in love with Lockheed. The damage in Japan was caused by her efforts to build a nest in the hope of winning him; but he didn't return her affections and chose Kitty over her.

There was also an Excalibur story in which Lockheed's people caught up with him and put him on trial for deserting them for Kitty. His old girlfriend--not his wife-- was among them; IIRC she wound up forgiving him. It was a very corny story.

[Marty P]

Ugh, indeed it was.
Lobdell was horrible on Excalibur.

[David Branson]

Originally Posted by Sidney Osinga

As for Amiko, he let Yukio raise her until it was discovered that she was the latest in a line of female mystical warrior monks and left to be trained as the leader's successor.

I missed this -- what issue/series was it in?

[Dr. Noh]

Originally posted by Madelyne:

Re. Lockheed:

She was neither his wife nor his mate. She was a large dragon who fell in love with Lockheed. The damage in Japan was caused by her efforts to build a nest in the hope of winning him; but he didn't return her affections and chose Kitty over her.

There was also an Excalibur story in which Lockheed's people caught up with him and put him on trial for deserting them for Kitty. His old girlfriend--not his wife-- was among them; IIRC she wound up forgiving him. It was a very corny story.

Thank you for your information regarding Lockheed. If it's true that Lockheed abandoned his girlfriend, then that makes for a fact rarely stated.

Originally posted by Zach Kinkead:

Re. Amiko, Cyclops & Wolverine:

And what happened to the little girl that Wolverine “adopted”? Do they not have child protective services in Japan (or Madapor or wherever she is now)? Surely someone has noticed that James abandoned a small child on the other side of the planet.

Basically I want to know how much of a deadbeat dad Wolverine is and why no one is calling him on it when they won't shut up about Cyclops dumping baby Cable in the future*.

*He did it to save Nate’s life! It isn’t like he dumped his kid in a mental institution and forgot about him … like Chuck did.

I agree that it's strange that with the case of Amiko, she had no family whatsoever who apparently did anyhing to seek her out or raise her. Wolverine passed the raising of Amiko onto his ex-girlfriend who AFAIK, hardly had time to raise her either.

Cyclops abandoned his wife and child in order to return to Jean Grey and AFAIK even the OHOTMU Update '89 #8 verified it. IIRC, around the time of the Inferno storyline, Madelyne Pryor gave Cyclops an ultimatum to chose her over Jean and he left.

Scott's actions in sending Nathan to the future don't count as abandonment IMO due to the reasons you state and, especially since Cyclops and Jean eventually went to the same era and raised Nathan anyway.

[Sidney Osinga]

Originally Posted by David Branson

I missed this -- what issue/series was it in?

It's the Wolverine: Soultaker mini-series.

[Dr. Noh]

Were the Scarlet Witch and Quicksilver initially supposed to be siblings and Magneto's children?

[David Branson]

Not in the 1960s. Siblings yes, Magneto's kids no. For a while in the 1970s they were retconned as being the children of Golden Age heroes Whizzer and Miss America. Then around 1978 there was a very cool, subtle retcon of them as Magneto's kids (in one Avengers issue and one X-Men issue, and you had to put two and two together to figure it out -- this being back before the internet, it was a very subtle thing, but nowadays it would be all over the place within hours), and after some years it was finally directly addressed in the first Vision/Scarlet Witch miniseries.