New Avengers

[TouchyRogue]

I got the impression that by the time that exiled Princess is brought back in and they follow her that was just one of the few remaining factions of Skrulls. So I still dont see any discrepency with whats gone on and whats been implied to have happened. But we dont have the full story yet, maybe more explanation is coming as far as where this group fits in exactly with everything thats happened within the Skrull empire as a whole. And at this point it wouldnt be hard to imagine what Skrulls are left would rally behind her and her cause and unite, it seems like her involvement is pretty recent.

[gnosis]

I do have to give this issue credit for bringing up the Skrull Cows in a darkly comical way. This is just one of those things I will always be amused by in the Skrull backstory because, no matter how cheesy (and rather shortsighted on Reed's part) an idea it was, writers will still make reference to it now and again (even though comic books are a lot darker in tone these days.)

[Rogue151]

I've been rereading New Avengers since reading New Avengers #40, and I think,unfortuately, SPOILER! Spider-woman's been a skrull since the beginning. Here's a couple of reasons, She was part of the SHIELD security during the raft thing, and she whispers 'wow' to Jarvis in issue 4 when she first gets to Stark Tower. I know these aren't solid evidence, but it's so fun how things are so different in rereadings after reading SI titles and tie-ins. Also what I thought was interesting is that when Jarvis is first introduced he's hesitant, and Steve mentions how he tried to get a hold of him and couldn't.

Also since Nick Fury seemed to talk to Hill privately shortly after she took office, I wonder if when she talks to Cap privately in NA 4 she mentions Fury and the warning he gave her.

[TouchyRogue]

In the first NA Annual I find it interesting that when Jessica Jones says she should go help the other heroes Jarvis tells her she should stay and protect her baby. Since we know he's a Skrull perhaps he knows that the baby is half or fully Skrull. I didnt think it likely that Jessica Jones or Luke Cage would be Skrulls before, but I think at least one of them is now. Not just from that, but noticing that while rereading the series from beginning to now I think so.

[Kevin Jones]

Originally Posted by TouchyRogue

In the first NA Annual I find it interesting that when Jessica Jones says she should go help the other heroes Jarvis tells her she should stay and protect her baby. Since we know he's a Skrull perhaps he knows that the baby is half or fully Skrull. I didnt think it likely that Jessica Jones or Luke Cage would be Skrulls before, but I think at least one of them is now. Not just from that, but noticing that while rereading the series from beginning to now I think so.

You might be right, but we don't know how long Jarvis has been a Skrull. It may not have been that long.

I do agree with Rogue151 that SPOILER! Spider-Woman has been a Skrull since the beginning of New Avengers. It's the only way it makes sense to me, especially since Bendis keeps saying the Skrulls have been in House of M and Breakout.

EDIT: I got the Avengers DVD Rom a while back, and it's turning out to be a godsend for this kind of research. Rogue151's comments made me look at those older New Avengers issues, and it's really interesting. SPOILER! Whispering to Jarvis does look suspicious. Why whisper? Also, who is it that points everyone to the SHIELD base in the Savage Land? None other than Spider-Woman. She just says "Oops! Look what I found!"

Then she questions the new Black Widow: "Who are you working for?" and gets the reply "The same people you are!" We're supposed to think she's talking about Hyrdra later, but she could've easily been talking about the Skrulls. Finally, at the end of #6, Jessica really sounds like she's pushing everyone else towards specific conclusions. She's the one that suggests SHIELD is stockpiling super-powered criminals.

So if she was a Skrull back then, what was she trying to do? Maybe the SHIELD base was trying to counter the Skrulls and Jessica took the opportunity to expose them. Maybe she was just trying to sow distrust between the Avengers and SHIELD.

BTW, recent developments also explain why Maria Hill was so against the New Avengers forming, especially if it was after her talk with Nick Fury. I really love the suspense. My hats off to Bendis for concocting this storyline!

Any thoughts?

[superzeroe]

Originally Posted by TouchyRogue

I got the impression that by the time that exiled Princess is brought back in and they follow her that was just one of the few remaining factions of Skrulls. So I still dont see any discrepency with whats gone on and whats been implied to have happened. But we dont have the full story yet, maybe more explanation is coming as far as where this group fits in exactly with everything thats happened within the Skrull empire as a whole. And at this point it wouldnt be hard to imagine what Skrulls are left would rally behind her and her cause and unite, it seems like her involvement is pretty recent.

yeah, i agree with Rouge. given that the Skrull empire has been in shambles for the past decade (real time) it wouldn't be a surprise if this was just one sect of SKrulls. but one sect is plenty. let's say that Mars has sentient life on it, and most of the Martian population doesn't know anything about Earthlings. if, say, the United States decided to invade Mars (and i surely hope our current-but-fleeting adminastration doesn't actually choose to do that....) i think the Martians would still be worried about a few million Earthlings landing on their planet. i don't think it would help ease their fear to know that MOST of the Earthlings aren't even interested in Mars.

[Clay Olsen]

Originally Posted by superzeroe

yeah, i agree with Rouge. given that the Skrull empire has been in shambles for the past decade (real time) it wouldn't be a surprise if this was just one sect of SKrulls. but one sect is plenty. let's say that Mars has sentient life on it, and most of the Martian population doesn't know anything about Earthlings. if, say, the United States decided to invade Mars (and i surely hope our current-but-fleeting adminastration doesn't actually choose to do that....) i think the Martians would still be worried about a few million Earthlings landing on their planet. i don't think it would help ease their fear to know that MOST of the Earthlings aren't even interested in Mars.

I understand... and yes... if those following this "princess" or whoever she is are from just after Annihilation... and are only the leftover bits of one faction trying to claim the Earth that's one thing... but a whole different issue from continuity.

The main issue of contention isn't the Annihilation of the Empire or the destsruction of Throneworld... but instead... when was Spider-woman replaced?

If she's been a Skrull since before New Avengers #1 then the time-line for the series does not credibly match up with the happeneings in space. For it to work that way the entirety of the MU since "Dissassembled" (and all titles that have tied/crossed into that) would have to have taken place with in a short span of 2 months (3 max). That includes the period without Avengers, birth of the New Team, HoM, Civil War, Inititive, Planet Hulk, WWH, Conquest, ect. All of those events seem incredibly unlikely to have taken only a short time.

Of course if she was replaced after Civil War then it would make much more sense. And the problems melt away.

[Rogue151]

Your assuming that the NA 40 takes place around Anhillation, but it took place Years before current continity it could have have happened right after galactus. Anyway I imagine the timeframe will continue to be explained. Like Kevin I do think SPOILER! Spider-woman's been replaced since the beginning of NA. I did catch a lot of the same stuff Kevin did, and I thought it interesting at the end of the first arc someone approaches the blonde Black Widow and offers her a chance to get revenge. I wonder if they made her have the ability to shape change an she took the form of the red headed Black Widow, and is now the Black Widow that's been in Mighty Avengers.

[TouchyRogue]

Maybe Jessica Drew being present during Avengers Disassembled wasnt a mistake by the artist like originally stated. Maybe it was completely intentional. They did say a skrull was there.

[Clay Olsen]

Originally Posted by Rogue151

Your assuming that the NA 40 takes place around Anhillation, but it took place Years before current continity it could have have happened right after galactus. Anyway I imagine the timeframe will continue to be explained. Like Kevin I do think SPOILER! Spider-woman's been replaced since the beginning of NA. I did catch a lot of the same stuff Kevin did, and I thought it interesting at the end of the first arc someone approaches the blonde Black Widow and offers her a chance to get revenge. I wonder if they made her have the ability to shape change an she took the form of the red headed Black Widow, and is now the Black Widow that's been in Mighty Avengers.

Well considering how long ago both in Marvel time and in our time the destruction of Throneworld occured (mid-80's) that would be a long time for a potentially unifying force (a royal, if her claim of royalty is to be beleived) to act on the sidelines. And it makes little sense for only her faction to be aware of the research going on. Any of the other Warlords (some of whom were top advisors to both Emporer Dorrek and Empress R'kll's regimes) would have used such technology during the Empire's civil war and more than likely in an attempt to cure the problem caused by the Hyperwave Bomb, or during the invasion by the Shi'ar and later during the Annihilation. Considering during the last invasion attempt (just prior to Galactic Storm) the Skrulls were still using technological implants to create super-skrulls the development of the genetic manipulation is something that would have to be fairly recent.

And as far as the "wave" being Galactus devouring of Throneworld... that seems hardly unlikely given the language being used. Galactus is hardly a wave. Those words were a direct reference to the Annihilus's massive armada of ships... which was called the "wave" throughout the entirety of the series.

[Rogue151]

ya know I really don't care about the timeframe at all. I just know I'm really enjoying this crossover, and how it's affecting all the characters. It's just such a interesting way to read a comic, wondering if the character drawn is really who they say they are.

[Clay Olsen]

Originally Posted by Rogue151

ya know I really don't care about the timeframe at all. I just know I'm really enjoying this crossover, and how it's affecting all the characters. It's just such a interesting way to read a comic, wondering if the character drawn is really who they say they are.

thats fine, you don't have to.
Some of us do though. And while it may the crossover may be a good story in and of itself... if it doesn't keep with the overall story... to me at least, it looses out bein what it could be. I just want the contradictions the story is seemingly creating to be explained so the whole mess doesn't turn into yet another Xorn mess.

[Rogue151]

To me Xorn was such a mess because the whole concept sucked from the begining.

[Clay Olsen]

So no comments on SPOILER! Ka-Zar, Zabu and Shanna's appearance/confrontation with the guy who claims to be Spiderman (but isn't Ben Rielly )?
I'm just wondering where baby Matt is in all of this...

[gnosis]

Originally Posted by AdamWarlock

So no comments on SPOILER! Ka-Zar, Zabu and Shanna's appearance/confrontation with the guy who claims to be Spiderman (but isn't Ben Rielly )?
I'm just wondering where baby Matt is in all of this...

Maybe they got Moon Boy to babysit?

[blackcat]

Originally Posted by Rogue151

To me Xorn was such a mess because the whole concept sucked from the begining.

Are you people STILL nagging about Xorn?????

OMG!!!

Come on people, it's been years ago, get over it, please.

[BlingstonHughes]

Originally Posted by AdamWarlock

So no comments on SPOILER! Ka-Zar, Zabu and Shanna's appearance/confrontation with the guy who claims to be Spiderman (but isn't Ben Rielly )?

Yeah, that's not SPOILER! Spidey. Check out the emblem on the front of his costume. It's not the right one, and that's really nitpicky, until you look at the first page with all the heroes and see that it's different there.

Obviously intentional - and cleverly subtle. If there are more little clues like that hidden throughout the series, this might be better than I anticipated.

[Rogue151]

Originally Posted by blackcat

Are you people STILL nagging about Xorn?????

OMG!!!

Come on people, it's been years ago, get over it, please.

dude, read the previous posts. I was responding to Adam's example of a hideous continuity mishap. An that's honestly why I think the story didn't work.

[gnosis]

Ok, technically? The Xorn debacle actually came from the writers trying to explain the contradictions, and then explain the contradictions in the explanations of the contradictions (sometimes known as Carter Hall/Katar Hol Syndrome.)

The timeline stuff doesn't bother me so much mainly because unless a book has a very specific timeline (like say, Ex Machina) it is never going to line up correctly and probably make my head hurt if I try and figure it out.

[darkerthanscarlet]

latest issue 342 is magic - this is the best the series has ever been, although it's kind of pay off for all that has gone before, so not sure how excited new readers would be by it!

Great art though - am intrigued what the skrulls did to Wanda, but it sounds like they weren't responsible for Avengers Disassembled, or were they?

[BlueBamf04]

Originally Posted by darkerthanscarlet

latest issue 342 is magic - this is the best the series has ever been, although it's kind of pay off for all that has gone before, so not sure how excited new readers would be by it!

Great art though - am intrigued what the skrulls did to Wanda, but it sounds like they weren't responsible for Avengers Disassembled, or were they?

I loved this issue as well. While not having as many 'revelations' as previous issues, I thought the elaboration on Spider-Woman's role was great. When adding The Inititive and Mighty Avengers together with this, I almost felt like Skrull Pym stole the show. All in all, great issue.

[Justin Braddock]

I really liked this issue as well. I'm loving all the revelations and the whole possibility of the skrulls playing a part in Wanda's messed up situation. Honestly I'd welcome it all being the skrulls' fault because she used to be my favorite Avenger next to Ms. Marvel.

I really didn't like Wanda becoming a psychopathic murderer.

I loved the art too. I've liked Cheung's work since I first saw it in X-Force like almost 10 years ago. Justin Ponsor's coloring is always great.

[Greg Reeves]

OMG! I just realized how they could have contributed! What if SPOILER! they were those creepy kids she "created"? They were always the ones who pushed her, right?

I mean, I haven't read HoM or Dissassembled in some time, but could that be it?

[Justin Braddock]

Oooh interesting observation! That'd be great!!

[blackcat]

Did you guys noticed in the scene where Spiderwoman gathers with the other Skrulls, there is besides Jarvis en Contessa Valentina etc, another woman with white face and long black hair talking. She is drawn almost the same as 'Jessica', but there are 3 woman talking, Jessica, Contessa and anther (!) Im suprised no-one noticed it too.

Take another look at that panel guys, altough I have no idea who it is suppose to be......